Can someone just be honest with me about Deutsche Bank
Hi everyone!
So I currently attend a semi-target for undergrad and have received a 2019 SA offer from Deutsche Bank in New York. While I am certainly excited and extremely appreciative to have received an offer in the first place, recent news about the firm has obviously left me somewhat apprehensive. As most of you probably know, its share price has plummeted, it's been downgraded by the Fed, and in a worst case scenario, some have even said it could pull out of the U.S. or soon cease to exist.
As a result, I have tried reaching out to multiple members currently at DB, and something just hasn't felt right with each of our conversations: their thoughts, for the most part, have been absolutely fair and genuine, but I can't seem to shake the feeling that certain things are being left out. On the other hand, when I talk to other members of the industry outside of DB, their thoughts tend to be informative but somewhat overblown or fueled by the media. I am yet to find a happy medium between the two, and I just want to know what the real deal is.
With that said, given the wide array of knowledge and experience on this site, I figured there could be some really valuable input provided. As the title implies, can anyone offer an honest and objective breakdown of what is actually going on at Deutsche Bank? And what about within each of the New York groups? Is there anything specific that you think I'm purposely not being told by the members there? And in terms of recruiting for next summer, what would you do in my shoes? Do you take the bulge bracket offer and be done, or roll the dice and go back into interviewing this summer? In case it affects your response, I will also add that I'm a pretty strong candidate and that I do ultimately see myself leaving investment banking for other industries.
Lastly, I recognize that similar posts on this topic have already been made. I still think this would be helpful as an updated version of those, though, and to get as brutally honest about the bank as possible. After sitting through so many ambiguous phone calls, I really just want to know what's actually happening at DB, and whether or not I would be making a bad decision in taking an offer there.
I truly appreciate any information given here in advance. Thanks so much!
I'd probably just take the offer unless you're far down the path with another BB or boutique bank that you would prefer. It's just a summer internship and I think highly unlikely that they'll start cutting summer interns (don't quote me on this).
I have a few friends laid off at DB (associate + VP level) but they have had no problem lining up interviews with other firms given the situation. Everyone across all levels of every bank understands the situation and it generally isn't an issue when it comes up during interviews.
I'd say take the offer, don't count on a return offer (if you get one great, but keep looking) and then continue interviewing into your final year of school. Even if you don't get an offer, no big deal and most people would understand. Personally, I didn't get an offer during my summer internship (same situation) but ended up spending ~6 years in investment banking.
Whoops, didn’t realize this was for next year. Same applies - keep looking until last day to sign the offer and try to leverage it for interviews at other banks. At the end of the day, you have a banking offer already.
They have just cut the South Africa unit so at this stage anything could happen.
I hear lots of people are leaving Deutsche Bank. Just what I've heard though
I think the previous thread about this same topic provides a pretty honest view from a lot of people. I think it is pretty simple and comes down to two things:
The first is, do you have other offers. Do you have an offer at basically any of the other BB’s or EB’s? If the answer is yes then I would lean towards picking those
The second is, what is your risk tolerance? There is no doubt there will be future cuts to the IB division (the entire HOU office was wiped out overnight) but IB at DB is a $2Bn business globally, it will exist tomorrow and will likely exist 3 years from now too. In what form, no one really knows but there will be bankers in the US and they will likely continue to do BB size deals.
People will disagree but as an analyst I think I would still pick DB over somewhere like RBC/Nomura/Macquarie/BMO/etc. At the end of the day it is still a BB and that will continue to carry a lot of weight into the future for exit opps and lateral opportunities. The comments about laid off associates/VPs not having trouble finding interviews does not surprise me at all – despite everything happening it is still a good banking franchise. When I talk about risk tolerance you have to be willing to accept the risk of employment at more prestigious firm vs. a job at a lesser franchise with more job security.
I agree with the most part but it sometimes depends on the industry. For some industries I'd pick BMO over DB.
Personally, for me to go with DB I would have to be facing no other viable (definition includes prestigious) offers. And would have had to basically run out of time to chase anything else. It's definitely a fading shop in the U.S. with potential criminal / illicit activities, so I would go pretty far to not start my career there. That said, there's probably a point in my mental desperation that I would take the offer. You just have to be proactive about taking that and jumping to another viable shop for your next internship / FT.
Also what year are you? If this isn't your last summer internship it seems more okay to me.
Look--you have a 2019 SA offer at a BB. It may now be the worst BB, but it's still a BB. In all likelihood, they won't pull the offer because the analyst, associate classes and all interns are funded out of HR's budget, not the IB. Since that budgeting process is done by mid-October of every year.for the following year, if you still have an offer in 4 months, you'll probably have it regardless of what happens to the bank. If something catastrophic happens, it's possible they will pull summer offers, but I think that's rather unlikely.
That said, there is no shame at all trying to get another offer given the situation at DB. I can't imagine anyone at DB holding it against you. They're all looking for a way out themselves. It would be insane for someone in HR at DB to try to cause you problems at another bank because you reneged on their offer. And to be clear, even if they really had it out for you, there is likely nothing they COULD do, and it's especially likely there is nothing they WOULD do. Doing anything of the sort probably violates NY employment laws, and just generally isn't worth anyone's time. In addition to the potential legal problems, they also risk looking like a complete jackass in their own right. The HR department they'd be contacting at your new bank is a potential employer for them, and in going out of their way to screw you, they'd (at best) look petty. They wouldn't look like they were going 'above and beyond' for their firm. They'd look like they're attempting to harm someone that did little more than turn down their offer. No one wants to work with vindictive bitches. And while HR people tend to be dumb, they're not THAT dumb.
Is working for DB still a positive for your resume? Sure, but it's obviously not an ideal situation. Take the offer as an insurance policy and find something better. If you get nothing better, intern at DB. If you find something at a bank without issues, thank DB for their offer, but say that you've reconsidered your position, and no longer wish to pursue their offer. You don't have to explain anything to them, but if they press you and you feel like sharing your rationale, you can absolutely say you don't feel comfortable with the future of the bank. That's a completely understandable and reasonable position.
I'd be weary of spending your 2019 summer at DB with the hopes of receiving a full-time offer beginning in July 2020 - that's more than two years away. The level of uncertainty and unraveling of DB's US franchise seems to be only accelerating.
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