Some banks are overrated as fuck
Sorry but LAZ / PWP / MOE are overrated as fuck. Go look at their deals, there’s a ton of middle market shit. Sure, comp and exits are top, but the actual deals are garbage. CVP / PJT / EVR are like significantly above it.
And don’t even get me started on BofA / Citi / Barc it’s literally not even remotely close to GS / MS / JPM. Like a whole different fucking sport in terms of exits and deals. People just slap BofA’s name on the deal since they’re providing lending for it but GS does all the real work lmaoooo
Congrats on PJT M&A
Where did he say M&A only?
In the RX space they are the undisputed top dog.
You could make the same argument for LAZ / MOE RX as well, in that they are better than the majority of groups at EVR. With that logic it doesn’t make sense to include PJT with EVR / CVP since their M&A platform is that much more lacklustre
Low-quality post - PJT M&A is mid af and quality of deals heavily depends on group in EBs
hot take JPM is overrated
have you seen their directors?
idk, LAZ seems decent
All EBs are getting overrated given their scale. They are no longer go-to shops for large-cap M&A. Even EVR is doing a lot of MM BS mandates that are honestly JEFF level. CVP is also getting there. PJT M&A had a nice run but in the past 3-4 years they are heavily underperforming
This had to be said out loud. To all the propsects glazing over EBs, know that it is more likely than not that you'll end up working on MM / low quality shit than on mega-cap M&A
GS is very comfortably above and beyond anyone else at this point, they have like what? $300B lead in M&A league tables over the next firm, which is JPM with a bigger platform. This is only for M&A. For IPOs/capital markets it's probably even more material, considering the lead lefts they are getting on the spacex, google capital raises
This is genuinely high-school level analysis. EVR and CVP will go as low as 100mm TEV and the BBs you glazed are actively trying to compete more in the MM advisory space. EB hype has always been about working on a greater volume of live deals and getting more responsibility at the expense of fewer large cap deals.
Not true. High volume / low value deals is the forte of shops like MOE or JEFF. EBs like EVR, PJT, PWP etc always tried to sell that they work, for the most part, on large-scale, strategic M&A etc. It simply isn't true anymore (maybe except for EVR or CVP but again, even they, especially EVR, are becoming volume shops).
To your point about live deal experience, not sure your argument holds. I'm pretty sure that top BB groups (against which these EBs are usually "benchmarked" on this forum), such as GS TMT, MS M&A/Menlo, JPM HC/M&A etc, are providing better deal experience, both in terms of quality and volume vs your average EBs.
Average analyst quality for these EB M&A groups remains significantly higher than even the top BBs, sorry but it’s true. So many tourists at the bulge brackets.
LOL, Analyst quality is down to the individual. Anyone clever at both shops can break into what so ever
Banking is becoming more commoditized across the board. They’re all overrated
no two companies are alike, so no two deals are alike hence the skills are commoditized but not the exposure
I never understood this obsession with prestige in finance. A good amount of the users on this site never had to carry quota and it honestly shows.
Your MDs and Directors don't care where the money comes from. Deals are deals, they are in their roles because they are expected to make it rain and generate revenue.
Your obsession with "prestigious" deals is only a hindrance and will not help you in any way, shape, or form.
The only time you have to say no to a potential deal is if the cost of executing it breaks even or is greater than the estimated revenue it would generate.
Also, you judging a bank based on what they're publicly allowed to market is myopic.
Exactly correct
This is the only logical take I have ever seen on these sorts of threads. Chasing prestige and brand based on the perspective of others' or the nature / size of deals closed historically is a sign of immaturity and serious disconnect from what actually matters.
Anyone debating prestige of bank A vs. bank B likely has under 2 YOE
It only takes 6 months of midtown happy hour to realize that Becky's reaction to hearing you're an Investment Banker at Lazard vs BMO is the same, and only another 6 months to realize that the incremental 30 hours/week isn't worth the additional 30K.
Got noticed by the OG. I’m honored.
I never understood my MDs tantrums when I was an analyst. Now that I’m in tech sales responsible for a quota and bringing in revenue. I empathize deeply with them and get annoyed by the complaints I read on this site.
Very on point. I hear my associates turning their nose up at staffings and its ridiculous. Like you go originate fees then.
Useless shit like prestige only matters when you're a cost center.
Agreed. A lot of these kids don't realize how much of a knife fight it is to secure business, especially when your product/seen is seen as an unnecessary luxury or a very common commodity.
Agreed. A lot of these kids don't realize how much of a knife fight it is to secure business, especially when your product/seen is seen as an unnecessary luxury or a very common commodity.
rabbit i'd love to see what fees u've been able to generate so far
Clearly OP has no idea what he’s even talking about
Wells Fargo is paradise
Your mileage will vary at any “top shop” based on the reputation you build for yourself. All of these firms do marquee deals…getting staffed on them isn’t a random occurrence.
I'm at one of CVP/EVR/PJT... Not sure there is much correlation between getting staffed on high-profile deals and your performance/reputation.
Sure, if you're buttom bucket, then don't expect to get staffed on such mandates (though came across such cases), but it's not like only high-performers/top bucket are the ones who get these staffings, it can be quite random tbh (know for a fact 2 top buckets (heading to MF and UMM) in our group that barely got staffed on such marquee deals vs some very mid analysts)
I worked at an equivalent shop and that certainly wasn’t the case but maybe things are different now.
PWP is a joke. Let’s start getting them out of conversations. Basically a glorified MM
I take it you struck out?
This is the same analyst who got rejected at PWP spamming hate every post hahahaha
GS, MS and JPM are also pretty overrated -
Assuming they are a top analyst, a candidate's experience at BofA/Citi will not be drastically different from say, JPM. Lol sorry to break it to you high schooler
Do you by any chance go to Vanderbilt? (congrats on PJT Park Hill!)
Personally, I'm at a CVP/EVR and I think highly of the LAZ/PJT/MOE EB guys. Honestly, it's just a job and most of us care about a combination of 1) comp 2) exits 3) prestige 4) not getting cranked every waking hour.
I can tell you probably struck out in recruiting or are at a no-name firm. None of us care all that much and as someone above said, BMO/LAZ sound the same at the bars.
I will say however, Goldman is a head above everyone else but the thing is you quite literally give up your life to work there so keep that in mind. Stop blindly reading WSO and figure out 1) works for you 2) enjoy your life (watch the Knicks or hang out with friends) instead of shitposting on WSO
Dude if you're at EVR/MOE you're working just as much (or even more) than at GS, unless you're at some weak / random group at those EBs. Honestly, not sure why everyone assumes GS is the sweatiest firm on the street, it is just not the case (never was)
GS IND...
Work at none, but LAZ/PWP/MOE need to get/continue sponsor relationships from somewhere - hence they go down into the MM. Nothing wrong or bad about it imo. Culture across teams and offices can be debated but they're top banks for a reason
Well, that is the point of this post... These sponsor-backed MM deals are "diluting" the deal quality at these so called EBs
Everyone dipping down into the MM given the slow down in M&A over the last few years
This forum has become an echo chamber of misinformation. It’s low key super obvious that most of you have never actually worked at a top group at a top bank. You’re just rattling off what you read on here from other students.
I’m an actual top bucket analyst at Moelis; two years in a row; in their Technology Support group. The ticket flow and size here would blow your horns right off - some of the best on the Street.
Just last week I got a staffed on a marquee ticket. An associate was working on a $100M (that’s millions USD) merger of equals between a cylinder manufacturer and a door hinge wholesaler. All of a sudden at 3:13 AM he was auto-formatting-blue his hardcoded hockey stick growth CAGR projections for combined CylinDoorBlockCo when his CIQ plugin glitched and crashed his whole 2002 Dell XP computer.
So I had to show up to work 30 minutes early the next afternoon to fix it and save the deal from dying. To celebrate the closing of an industry-leading ticket my boy in Rx and I grabbed a couple 6 packs from the local bodega and got hammered and played NBA 2k. It was one of the sickest ticket closing events I’ve been to.
If you’ve got experience in Technology coverage and want to join my group instead of shitposting here, shoot me your resume and I’ll see what I can do.
Because you couldn’t pay me enough to leave Mo-elis.
You couldn’t pay me enough to leave paradise.
IB nerds try not to be insufferable challenge.
the
I'm at an EB and sure, you might get more reps (though not sure if you get more than at some top BB group like GS TMT/FIG, MS M&A/Menlo/M&C, JPM M&A/HC) but that's because most of the EBs are chasing everything, from 50M capital raises to 100M random sell-sides. I would much rather focus on quality than volume
Partially agree on the BB take, but the EB ranking is a stretch. LAZ restructuring alone puts out some of the most complex work on the street, calling that "middle market shit" is just wrong. CVP/PJT/EVR are excellent, but the gap isn't as clean as you're making it sound.
On BofA/Citi/Barc vs. GS/MS/JPM sure, tier difference is real, but "GS does all the real work" is cope. Co-advisor dynamics are more nuanced than that.
Let's put RX aside, the point was more about M&A, a space where EBs and BBs compete directly.
To be honest, it really depends on what industry we're comparing here. For e.g., in healthcare, CVP is the no. 1 shop, surpassing GS/MS/JPM. On the other hand, in tech, GS/MS are miles ahead of other non-Q EBs.
Overall though, GS is probably the best platform in banking to develop on — period. Sure, some seniors are jumping to EBs because (1) they get a bigger slice of the fees, but more importantly (2) they can pursue a lot of other, MM-LMM opportunities that a bigger platform such as GS/MS/JPM wouldn't bother spending time on. This last point gets us to the overall dilution in deal quality at some of these EBs — seniors are encouraged to pursue these MM-LMM opportunities because they can, even if it comes at a cost of cranking juniors (they are simply marketing these opportunities as getting "deal reps" which is a load of crap if we're being honest here).
Congrats on UBS
.
I don’t really understand why Laz gets so much shit, even in the US. Analyst class is half the size of EVR yet they’re consistently top 3 EB M&A advisors (YTD so far #1) both in US and Global league tables.
Sure you’ll get some MM deals but that’s really at every boutique including EVR/CVP/PJT he’ll even Q (look at their recent transactions, many less than $1B).
Congrats on LAZ!
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