Comments (33)

Mar 7, 2018

HEC MiF =/= CPGE completly different. MiF is just to make money and diversify offering to make more money as CPGE path which is the most elite course you could get in France to get into M&A, just to put it out there. Hence if you apply to a role and someone with HEC Grande Ecole will always be way ahead of you in terms of preference from a HR point of view.

For IBD in London, I'd go for LBS but the MFA is probably not worth a MSc in Finance & PE from LSE. Do not mix LBS MFA and its MiF which is highly regarded and competitive with the like of LSE MSc / Oxbridge.

My 2 cents.

    • 1
    • 1
Mar 7, 2018
GhenkisSchwarzKhan:

HEC MiF =/= CPGE completly different. MiF is just to make money and diversify offering to make more money as CPGE path which is the most elite course you could get in France to get into M&A, just to put it out there. Hence if you apply to a role and someone with HEC Grande Ecole will always be way ahead of you in terms of preference from a HR point of view.

For IBD in London, I'd go for LBS but the MFA is probably not worth a MSc in Finance & PE from LSE. Do not mix LBS MFA and its MiF which is highly regarded and competitive with the like of LSE MSc / Oxbridge.

My 2 cents.

Thank you for your opinion- it confirms mostly what I suspected. I hope that in time the LBS MFA reaches the same reputation as the MiF as they're different offerings, one pre and one post-experience. I am also concerned about the hiring situation for Americans in London, so if you have any opinions on that I'd appreciate it.

Regarding HEC, could you give me a general comparison regarding CPGE vs. MiF perception? Do people in the MiF still benefit significantly from the HEC brand or are they treated almost like they didn't even go to the school?

Since according to your profile you're in IBD M&A, could you give me some advice on whether either of these programs would give me a decent shot at your industry given my background?

Mar 8, 2018

As someone who is close to HEC maybe I can help a little here.

Considering jobs in France itself - yes, the CPGE is seen better than MiF and the other programs for internationals. But this does not mean in any way that the HEC brand loses its value in recruiting. Non-prepa students still get a lot of love in Paris IBD as long as the french skills are sufficient (fluency needed).
This is even more so in London, and since you are considering London IBD you shouldn't listen to people who say that those programs are only there to "make more money". If you look at the non CPGE people from MiF/MiM you will find loads of people who are in attractive IBD positions in LDN.

Mar 7, 2018

bump

Mar 8, 2018

Vandy MSF if you want to stay in the US but saying "BB would be acceptable to me" is laughable. You are competing against thousands of candidates that went to target schools and have great experience so even if you do kill it at Vandy, you will have to hustle your ass off and get lucky to get any placement in IB.

Free Consultation

Vantage Point MBA's clients are accepted to the top MBA programs at a 3x higher rate than the average acceptance rates. Request a consultation with their team to learn how they can help you gain admission to your dream schools. Learn more.

Mar 7, 2018
Clemsonrichyrich:

Vandy MSF if you want to stay in the US but saying "BB would be acceptable to me" is laughable. You are competing against thousands of candidates that went to target schools and have great experience so even if you do kill it at Vandy, you will have to hustle your ass off and get lucky to get any placement in IB.

I didn't mean it in that way. What I meant to say was that my impression is that Tech M&A is one of the hardest groups to get into so I didn't want to seem like I was only gunning for a role there. My point was that I'd be extremely grateful and happy with any sort of placement in BB IBD.

I'm really trying to pick the program that'd give me the best shot at a BB but employment reports tend to exaggerate (sure Goldman, JPM, and MS recruited at Vandy, but did the people who got those offers already have BB internships?) and are especially murky regarding people with similar backgrounds to mine.

I interviewed at Princeton and MIT but I didn't end up getting the offers, or it'd be a more clear-cut choice. Even then I heard from students while I was there that they had to hustle hard. If they're having trouble, then I figure I'm going to have to really push.

Mar 8, 2018

sadfasd
Hope that hedlps

Best Response
Mar 8, 2018

The right answer is that if you want to work in the US, you should go to Vandy and if you want EU, take HEC. That said, HEC has fantastic placements and a great reputation. It's a tough choice no doubt. Did you try MIT?

    • 2
Mar 7, 2018
Esuric:

The right answer is that if you want to work in the US, you should go to Vandy and if you want EU, take HEC. That said, HEC has fantastic placements and a great reputation. It's a tough choice no doubt. Did you try MIT?

I interviewed at MIT but I didn't receive an offer- most likely because I was missing some of the math requirements and I didn't have the finance experience.

Why HEC over LBS?

Mar 11, 2018

ya i'd take LBS for location and its exclusive master's business alumni. honestly your cash is dying by big amounts anyway, so don't worry as much about those delta.

keep an eye on work visa & financial aid for foreigners

Jun 10, 2018

I see.

So, is it fair to assume that already posessing finance-related work experience is a pre-requisite to gain admittance to the MIT MFin program?

Free Consultation

Vantage Point MBA's clients are accepted to the top MBA programs at a 3x higher rate than the average acceptance rates. Request a consultation with their team to learn how they can help you gain admission to your dream schools. Learn more.

Mar 9, 2018

Hey, I'm going doing the MFA at LBS next year and my girlfriend is doing the Grand Ecole MiM at HEC (and we are both French) so I guess I can help.

First of all, both are amazing schools and programs so you cannot go wrong.

HEC is an amazing school and basically the best you can do in France for IBD. That being said, I think you will have a hard time at finding jobs in France because 1) MiF is not their flagship program and 2) Being fluent in French is an absolute necessity. Regarding the "connecting" aspect, French students do not hang out with International students, and especially not with IS who are not doing the Grande Ecole program. As Hucky said, I guess you would still enjoy (although keep in mind that HEC is 45 mnts away from Paris), but definitely less than French students.
Still, HEC places well in the city as 37% of MiF student went to work in the UK after the program (see the brochure) so I'd say you have a decent chance to find a job in London. (The brochure says 37% went to the UK and that overall 42% work in corporate finance a very rough guess would be that 10 to 15% get a job in IB in London).

LBS on the other hand is basically the most international school you could go to, and it's in the center of London so plenty of fun and "connecting" on this side.
If you want to work in London, LBS clearly has an advantage as you get to network in the city you want to work in. I think HEC has networking weeks in London but clearly, studying in the city gives you much more exposure.
However, it is true that the MFA is a recent program which means it is not in the rankings and it does not have the same Alumni network (even though I personally think nobody at LBS cares if you've done the MiM, the MFA or a MBA). I personally think (and hope) that it will reach LBS's MiF reputation as a pre experience program in the next few years.
Also in the UK, people don't really care if you've studied history or accounting & finance as long as can demonstrate genuine interest in the sector and that you've done your homework so I would not worry about your CS background. Having a finance internship clearly helps though.

In the end, what you want is a school/program that will get you to pass the screening and land interviews at every firms you're applying (which is 50% networking), and to have a great year, and I think the LBS/London combination has the upper hand for both aspects.

Hope that helps !

    • 2
Mar 9, 2018

Before you listen to anything here just do your own research. Go on Linkedin and see where people in these programs are now.

The MIF is the flagship program at HEC, there is even a selection process for Grande Ecole kids including grades and interview who want to do the MIF - also almost everyone out of those 40% who end up in London either go to IBD or directly to the buyside, only a few do markets

    • 1
    • 1
Mar 9, 2018

That is simply not true and any French people that knows about business school would tell you that.
You can take my word for it, but GE kids (so the majority of the alumni) really think you are worth less than them, it's like you're not in the same school. Even within the GE, if you haven't done the "Classe Prepa" in France, they'll think you're s**t.
It is true that there is a selection process within the Grande Ecole to do the MIF, but only because there are fewer places than applicants ... I mean there is also a selection process for the MSc Marketing ...

And looking at what people do after the programs, well 13 out of the 40 CEO of the CAC went to HEC, and they all did the Grande Ecole.

The MIF is still an amazing program, but really not the Flagship.

    • 1
    • 1
Mar 7, 2018
PancakeMonkey:

That is simply not true and any French people that knows about business school would tell you that.
You can take my word for it, but GE kids (so the majority of the alumni) really think you are worth less than them, it's like you're not in the same school. Even within the GE, if you haven't done the "Classe Prepa" in France, they'll think you're s**t.
It is true that there is a selection process within the Grande Ecole to do the MIF, but only because there are fewer places than applicants ... I mean there is also a selection process for the MSc Marketing ...

And looking at what people do after the programs, well 13 out of the 40 CEO of the CAC went to HEC, and they all did the Grande Ecole.

The MIF is still an amazing program, but really not the Flagship.

It's good to hear an opinion from an actual French person as well as a fellow LBS admit. I've sent you a PM with some more questions.

Mar 8, 2018

I mainly agree with PancakeMonkey here except for 2 points that I would like to differentiate a little more:

1) "Even within the GE, if you haven't done the "Classe Prepa" in France, they'll think you're shit." - strong exaggeration here and depends who's reviewing the CV. There are former Prepa-GE students that are on such a level of arrogance/elitist-french thinking, but by far not all of them. And since HR and those people will not always (they may sometimes, that's for sure) be the people that review applications/do interviews or whatever, this just has to be communicated a little more precisely and less exaggerated.
In short:
Being non-prepa Grande Ecole at HEC may be shit in the eyes of some of the (former) prepa guys, but by far not for all of those and for nearly nobody outside of this group.

2) Taking the amount of CEOs of CAC as a proxy for the greatness of a program is not really working here, because obviously your chances of being a CEO of a French firm are way higher if you're french and if you're french you're way more likely to do Grande Ecole, not MiF only.
In addition it would be interesting how many of those Grande Ecole guys did the MiF in their last year - it still is the most prestigious of the M2 choices at the school - so therefore it could well be called the "flaghship", because it has to be seen divided from the GE program (since the one does not exclude the other).

Overall - as I said we mostly agree, but I just wanted to be a little more precise on those points.

Jun 10, 2018

Any prospective pre-experience M.Sc. Student and applicant should therefore pick LBS over HEC:

  1. at least for the sake of avoiding this whole toxic french-only nonsense about coming from french high school preparatory classes or not;
  2. and also for the obvious strict social divide between domestic and international students ;

3.and finally because in the end you end up in London anyways

    • 1
Mar 11, 2018

IMO, it's either HEC or Vandebilt. LBS program is very new and it's not as great as LSE MSc Finance. HEC is equivalent to LSE. They have wonderful placements and very loyal alumni network.

So it depends on where you want to live. If it's US, Vanderbilt all the way. If Europe & Asia, go with HEC.

    • 6
Mar 11, 2018

man i'm seeing ya bullshit again. Too bad.

Vandy really doesn't have the slam-dunk status that HEC and LBS have in their EU territories.

Jun 10, 2018
antivirus:

Vandy really doesn't have the slam-dunk status that HEC and LBS have in their EU territories.

I will have to agree with that statement ++

Mar 11, 2018
Chloeface007:

HEC is equivalent to LSE. They have wonderful placements and very loyal alumni network.

let's see what credentials you have to talk shit

    • 1
Mar 11, 2018

Just wanted to say that BBs in fact do hire from Vanderbilt. Although banks like Goldman mainly hire for ER positions, the program has successfully placed into lower-prestige BBs and they continue to do so.

Here's one: https://www.linkedin.com/in/connorhamilton1/

Mar 11, 2018
Chloeface007:

Just wanted to say that BBs in fact do hire from Vanderbilt. Although banks like Goldman mainly hire for ER positions, the program has successfully placed into lower-prestige BBs and they continue to do so.

Here's one: https://www.linkedin.com/in/connorhamilton1/

one-off bullshit that happens everywhere. Thanks for the tip

Mar 15, 2018

I'm a Grande Ecole HEC alumni that did the MIF as my final year.

Most of the non-Grande Ecole international MIF students in my class have had stellar placements in London and HK, the opinion of Grande Ecole alumni matters little to global financial hub recruiters. It'll only matter if you want to work in France.

The key point is that the MIF is rated as one of the best Masters in Finance globally by the FT, the rest is noise.

I can't speak for LBS or Vanderbilt. LSE is clearly a notch below in terms of the quality of its new graduates (I have seen a fairly wide sample during my time in IB).

PM me for more details on the MIF if needed

Jun 10, 2018
Comment
Jun 10, 2018