Covid & Cuomo

Did I miss @financeabc or @Ozymandia post on Cuomo or Lightfoot's reprehensible decision to open their states up on the grounds that their economies can no longer suffer? I must've. They are the biggest champions of grandma and have condemned anyone who has wanted to open from day one.

Comments (50)

 
  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Equities
Jan 18, 2021 - 5:40pm

Indoor dining and much of everything else in NYC remains closed. He opened other parts of the state that had to do with color coded zones that have become arbitrary. Some areas with higher hospitalization % etc have indoor dining. Not like NYC is the worst hit in the state or anything. 

 
Jan 19, 2021 - 2:31pm

PrivatePyle

Did I miss @financeabc or @Ozymandia post on Cuomo or Lightfoot's reprehensible decision to open their states up on the grounds that their economies can no longer suffer? I must've. They are the biggest champions of grandma and have condemned anyone who has wanted to open from day one.

Well, there is also the fact that there is a vaccine, which means many if not most of the at-risk populations will be vaccinated.  

But Iive in NYC and no indoor dining is open here, so I'm not sure what it is, specifically, you're complaining about?  That Mr Cuomo is evaluating which areas of the state to open based on independent criteria and risk assessment?  Oh, be still, my heart!  Someone applying a little thought to a problem instead of a blanket solution, how terrible!

Frankly, I have mixed feelings about the continued closures, but your dumb and puerile argument that somehow people who supported limited business closures weren't also cognizant of the economic cost is prima facie wrong.  I can only speak for myself, but my argument has been that weighing the health consequences of the virus more heavily than the economic consequences of how we addressed the pandemic is a perfectly valid public policy position to take.  As at-risk populations become vaccinated and we understand more and more about the virus and its effects, a gradual opening of businesses that had been closed is perfectly in keeping with previous policy.

 
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Jan 20, 2021 - 9:04am

Ozymandia

That Mr Cuomo is evaluating which areas of the state to open based on independent criteria and risk assessment?  Oh, be still, my heart!  Someone applying a little thought to a problem instead of a blanket solution, how terrible!

 

Funny how he did not "apply a little thought" to the problem 6 months ago. I wonder what changed over the past couple of months? Surely there wasn't some big political event that happened that could have changed his approach. No, that certainly is not the case. Cuomo would never make blanket decisions for political reasons. 

 
Jan 20, 2021 - 9:16am

He is also evaluating the risks of who gets the vaccine too, I assume? We all knows DeSantis is doing a horrible job with that..... oh wait, Florida is leading the nation in vaccinations among senior citizens (https://flgov.com/2021/01/15/florida-leads-the-nation-in-vaccinating-se…) while Cuomo only began allowing those 75+ to be vaccinated as of a week ago (https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-cuomo-announces-additional-new-yorkers-individuals-75-and-older-can-begin-scheduling). Great risk mitigation!

 
Jan 20, 2021 - 11:09am

CAGRator

Funny how he did not "apply a little thought" to the problem 6 months ago. I wonder what changed over the past couple of months? Surely there wasn't some big political event that happened that could have changed his approach. No, that certainly is not the case. Cuomo would never make blanket decisions for political reasons. 

Well, something really big did change in the last couple months.  It's called a "vaccine", and if you're unfamiliar with the concept, it allows people who receive it to be inoculated against whatever virus or disease it's meant for.  In other words, it's presence means that many at-risk populations soon won't be, and thus, the arguments surrounding business closures can evolve a bit.

Moreover, this argument is stupid.  You must not live in NY, because from September through early December indoor dining was open in NYC.  It got shut down when infection rates started rising.  I know you want to tie everything to Mr Trump, to distract from the thousands of Americans his negligence has killed and shift blame onto others, but in this case there is no connection at all.

If it was tied to politics, then why wait until now?  Mr Cuomo would have lifted all restrictions in mid November, instead of, you know.... reimposing dining bans in the city a few weeks after Mr Biden won.

 

 

 
  • NA in IB-M&A
Jan 20, 2021 - 10:25am

Objectively the costs for small business owners have not changed that much -they will continue to struggle and many will die. I think many people are frustrated by how quickly the narrative on covid safety in NY has completely changed, seemingly due to the political office shift. Small businesses and many average people have been suffering for months, and have been begging to reopen. If Cuomo or DeBlasio were to loosen restrictions prior to the Biden win, whether it was the correct decision or not, it would have been in direct opposition to the liberal agenda and in support of Trump. Of course they couldn't have that: Why let Trump have a moral victory? Regardless of your political affiliations or views, it just sucks that most politicians will let people continue to let people drown just to hold out petty grudges. Its a joke. 

 
Jan 20, 2021 - 11:26am

 

Objectively the costs for small business owners have not changed that much -they will continue to struggle and many will die. I think many people are frustrated by how quickly the narrative on covid safety in NY has completely changed, seemingly due to the political office shift.

Please tell me about the narrative shift.  Is it the one where Cuomo shut down indoor dining and instituted a tighter curfew for businesses just a few weeks after Biden won?

You morons are fucking infuriating.  There is a vaccine now, which obviously impacts the calculus, and beyond that, infection rates are dropping in the NY Metro area, which has always been a stated reason for how policy is decided on.  You can disagree with it all you like, and I happen to think Mr Cuomo's implementation of all these rules has been a little arbitrary and senseless, but acting as though Biden winning the election is what's deciding all this is deliberately obtuse.  Given that we're only two weeks out from Mr Trump's armed coup attempt, it's not as if Biden taking office has been guaranteed anyway.  

Small businesses and many average people have been suffering for months, and have been begging to reopen. If Cuomo or DeBlasio were to loosen restrictions prior to the Biden win, whether it was the correct decision or not, it would have been in direct opposition to the liberal agenda and in support of Trump.

They did.  Indoor dining in NYC opened in September.  And closed again in December.  So it opened while Trump was President and closed when Biden was President elect.  You are an idiot and are apparently allergic to facts.

Of course they couldn't have that: Why let Trump have a moral victory?

They did have that.  Try again

 

Regardless of your political affiliations or views, it just sucks that most politicians will let people continue to let people drown just to hold out petty grudges. Its a joke. 

You seem to be confusing GOP politics for all politics.  I cannot speak for other states, but for all the problems and random implementation and enforcement, NY has been shocking apolitical when it comes to COVID.  Mr Cuomo, for all his faults, has been pretty open about his rationale.  It has a lot to do with infection rates and little to do with Mr Trump.

 

 
Jan 20, 2021 - 5:55pm

Ozymandia

  I can only speak for myself, but my argument has been that weighing the health consequences of the virus more heavily than the economic consequences of how we addressed the pandemic is a perfectly valid public policy position to take.  As at-risk populations become vaccinated and we understand more and more about the virus and its effects, a gradual opening of businesses that had been closed is perfectly in keeping with previous policy.

This hasn't been your argument. You know it. I know it. Probably a good number of users here know it too. You're not the only one here who has decent memory. I specifically remember you making comments like "Covid Deaths bad." "Unemployment less bad!". In other words, there was no weighing of options, and placing a heavier weight on case rate. You advocated for as much shutting down as possible so that Covid deaths could be reduced. I responded to you about how unemployment leads to deaths, which of course you never responded to (as you never respond to me whenever I have a valid counter). Any time someone tried  advocating for more to reopen you would always say something along the lines of "Unless you are willing for all your loved ones and family members to die of COVID, shut up!"  

And before you say "Now there's a vaccine" the reality is that only some at risk people have received the first dose, which in itself is only sort of effective. As of current this isn't much different than a herd immunity strategy , which you have been strongly against since day 1. To that end, we've known about a vaccine in the works since November. If you don't think that there's any significance to the week before and after January 20, well I'm not sure what to tell you.

Finally, your statement that "Trump could still be president!" is either a weak attempt to deflect the conversation and get conservatives hung up on something else, or you legitimately are frightened over something that has almost a 0% chance of happening. Biden will be in office for at most 4 years, and during this time the anti-establishment Republicans will be either looking for a younger candidate who runs on the MAGA platform or maybe Trump himself will run again (although we have to wait for the results of the impeachment "trial" to see what happens there). 

 

Edit: Your Trump comment is below not what I was directly responding to

Array
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Jan 21, 2021 - 10:43am

IncomingIBDreject

This hasn't been your argument. You know it. I know it. Probably a good number of users here know it too. You're not the only one here who has decent memory. I specifically remember you making comments like "Covid Deaths bad." "Unemployment less bad!".

How does that not track with exactly what I said?  I stand by this right now - death is unquestionably worse than unemployment.  Are you seriously arguing this?

In other words, there was no weighing of options, and placing a heavier weight on case rate. You advocated for as much shutting down as possible so that Covid deaths could be reduced.

Again, not seeing a rebuttal here.  I still say it was wise to shut down as we did.  We should place a heavier weight on case rate and other quantifiable approaches.

I responded to you about how unemployment leads to deaths, which of course you never responded to (as you never respond to me whenever I have a valid counter). Any time someone tried  advocating for more to reopen you would always say something along the lines of "Unless you are willing for all your loved ones and family members to die of COVID, shut up!"  

This is categorically untrue.  I made that response whenever someone said or implied that a few deaths are an appropriate consequence for re-opening.  A position which I stand by.  No one gets to say "a couple hundred thousand people dying is a fair trade for avoiding the economic damage done by anti-COVID measures," unless they're willing to confront that statement in more than an abstract sense.

And fine, unemployment leads to deaths.  We also have pretty solid evidence that fewer people died in road crashes in 2020, no doubt because people were home and not driving to work/bars/etc.  If you want to count secondary effects, by all means, lets do it.  But don't stop at the one point you think helps you.  Either be honest about it or don't bring it up at all.

As I've also said, we could also do more as a society in general to put in place social safety nets, psychological counseling, etc to offset some of this.  The very fact that we have to have a conversation where we have this trade-off is a massive indictment of conservative socio-economic policy.

And before you say "Now there's a vaccine" the reality is that only some at risk people have received the first dose, which in itself is only sort of effective.

Right, but nothing in NYC is open right now.  It's a plan for the future.  A future in which more people are fully vaccinated.  I really don't see how you're missing that.

As of current this isn't much different than a herd immunity strategy , which you have been strongly against since day 1.

How is it not?  Again, none of the measures we're discussing are being implemented yet.  But you know what good governance is?  Transparency, and letting the people you govern know what the plan is.  I don't actually think Cuomo has done a very good job at this lately, but I'm certainly not complaining that he's doing it here. 

Given that people are being vaccinated, it by definition isn't a herd immunity strategy.

To that end, we've known about a vaccine in the works since November. If you don't think that there's any significance to the week before and after January 20, well I'm not sure what to tell you.

Again, you're taking a hypothetical and assuming it's a reality.  If there was a plan in place that said "January 25th, everything is open, have fun!" I'd agree with you wholeheartedly.

Moreover, the Governor has been extremely consistent in one aspect of his plan messaging, which is that his decisions are largely informed by the rate of positive testing.  Now, you can agree or disagree with that, but the truth is that something else has changed in the last few weeks - we're seeing nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data.page">a decline in positive testing rates for the first time since late October

Finally, your statement that "Trump could still be president!" is either a weak attempt to deflect the conversation and get conservatives hung up on something else, or you legitimately are frightened over something that has almost a 0% chance of happening.

Two weeks ago Mr Trump and his supporters attempted an armed coup against the US government.  Which is why I said that until two weeks ago, it was not at all certain that Mr Biden would be able to take office.  Again, because of the armed coup attempt.

Biden will be in office for at most 4 years, and during this time the anti-establishment Republicans will be either looking for a younger candidate who runs on the MAGA platform or maybe Trump himself will run again (although we have to wait for the results of the impeachment "trial" to see what happens there). 

I also doubt that Mr Biden will run for re-election.

Basically, you show me where Mr Cuomo has stated that it's open season in NYC and I'll agree with you.  Until that time, stop confusing a hypothetical with an actual.

 

 
Jan 19, 2021 - 3:01pm

These topics that target/harass WSO users are pathetic and do not deserve a response. I realize you are trying to look good in front of your friends but this is not middle school.

http://www.series65examtutor.com
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Jan 20, 2021 - 11:49am

Curious if you support Cuomo's decision or not. Now that Trump lost and is out of office, do you support reopening the economy?

Trump "lost" two and a half months ago and his time in office more or less ended when his attempt to overthrow the government failed.

In the time in between, NYC shut indoor dining and instituted a tighter curfew for businesses.  Curious how to square that with your conspiracy theory.

There is a vaccine now, which means at-risk populations will be less at risk, and as reported infection rates drop, Mr Cuomo will consider allowing businesses to reopen.  In other words, exactly the same calculus he was using in September, when he allowed indoor dining to open... while Mr Trump was POTUS.

How dumb can you be?  I mean that seriously.  You give the overwhelming impression of a person who has never bothered to learn a single fact about the issues they're discussing.  How do you even go through life like that?  Does anyone beyond your mother take your little faux-intellectual tantrums seriously?

 
Most Helpful
Jan 20, 2021 - 9:39am

Cuomo is a clown and has bundled much of NY's response, but go on and score those lib-owning points, king.

you didn't make good choices; you had good choices

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  • Analyst 2 in IB-M&A
Jan 20, 2021 - 3:12pm

PrivatePyle DESTROYS dumb libs with FACTS and LOGIC

 
Jan 21, 2021 - 11:46am

Thanks for the comment. I don't see why some people have to fight tooth and nail on every single item pushed by their party elites. It's ok to say Cuomo is a screw up. You're not ceding the entire intellectual battlefield to the opposition side by doing so.

 
  • NA in IB-M&A
Jan 20, 2021 - 10:12am

It's funny how so many people have suddenly become advocates for opening the country now that it conveniently fits the political narrative 

 
  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Equities
Jan 20, 2021 - 1:51pm

x2...I'm even hearing "we don't know if you can get it twice...we don't know if vaccine works...new strain" so if we're going to operate on that basis we probably need to end the world entirely. 

 
  • Associate 2 in IB-M&A
Jan 20, 2021 - 6:03pm

Oh I'm right there with you, they're a bunch of hypocritical douche canoes. I live in Chicago and can't wait to vote for literally anyone other than Lightfoot and Pritzker.

 
  • Analyst 1 in S&T - Equities
Jan 20, 2021 - 7:34pm

The thing is NY still hasn't really done much. They reopened indoor dining in some parts but NYC still has nothing. They're in the same place they've been, no change at all. Now Cuomo is throwing a temper tantrum that new administration isn't going to give them billions of dollars due to their destruction of economy. 

 
Jan 21, 2021 - 1:44pm

lol Cuomo actually won an emmy for his weird political theatre. 

 

I wish we lived in a serious country :/

"Work ethic, work ethic" - Vince Vaughn

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Jan 21, 2021 - 2:18pm

It is meant to be a dialogue. By no means do I think there is some grand conspiracy that Democrats let people die all in the name of undermining Trump. If people do believe that, they have a pretty dark view of the world we live in. However, I think it is at least a bit curious, that as we head into the dead of winter, there is a giant flip flop from some of the most staunch lockdown supporters. A few things that have happened in the last few days...

1) Cuomo & Lightfoot change their opinions on lockdown (whether or not there is risk mitigation or not is semantics...) 

2) Bezos comes out of the woodwork to offer Amazon's support in vaccine distribution

3) The WHO updates their language regarding PCR Testing Cycle thresholds, that in my opinion is walking back previous guidance.. Essentially prior guidance was emphasizing increasing threshold so that we could capture anyone who had viral particles in them vs. updated guidance that indicates that this may result in a false positive "where the test results do not correspond with the clinical presentation"

4) MSM media touts Biden's plan to have 100M vaccinations in 100 days.... we have already been at about 1M a day, so in reality, Biden isn't really showing much of an improvement

5) The number of articles written in the past day stating that we have "peaked" provides further curoisity

Links:

https://www.npr.org/2021/01/21/959107199/morning-news-brief

https://www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/San-Francisco-covid-pe…

https://sports.yahoo.com/top-scientists-says-report-on-rising-covid-inf…

Again, I am not saying there is a some grand conspiracy going on here. I just find it very interesting that on the campaign trail, Biden kept referencing a "dark winter" and how bad things were going to get... we aren't even halfway through winter (it started December 21st) and things are already turning around?

Dialogue is good. Pointing out hypocrisy is good. Holding people accountable is good. 

This isn't to own Dems.... it's to shed light on what appears to be happening, that at the very least seems a little too coincidental for my taste. 

 
Jan 21, 2021 - 2:54pm
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