DB NYC vs Guggenheim NYC vs RBC NYC (M&A) vs TPH (PWP) Houston for 2019 SA -> FT
Currently hold offers for all except one listed above. Need to make a decision by the day after the superday of the bank I do not have an offer yet from. More about the situation and what I know:
DB NYC: No idea what the hell is going on with this place. Some tell me it's a low-tier BB going through some tough times right now but claim that there won't be any major changes to the investment banking division and that most cuts in the U.S. will be in the S&T side. Some people think their U.S. business is the next Lehman / Bear Stearns and will be gone in 5 years. Really loved everyone there and seems like a great culture. Not sure what the M&A specific dealflow there is like right now and have no idea what compensation is like. Historically has 80-90% FT return offer rate (with some even being 100%). No idea what PE placements are like (guessing MM PE at best)
Guggenheim NYC: I honestly don't know much about them and the prior threads on them are either really positive or really negative. Spoke with a couple people there who claim they almost exclusively do M&A work and range anywhere from a $100-200 million deal to deals way larger than $1 billion (like Disney-Fox). Heard the culture is a little more cut throat due to carrying the Bear Stearns legacy. Didn't really start the IBD until after the crisis, so relatively new? No idea what the compensation or FT return offer rate is like, so any information on that would be very helpful. No idea what placements are like (also guessing MM PE at best)
RBC NYC M&A: Has been growing their M&A business in the U.S. like crazy recently. The M&A team claims that they have started to compete against the mid/low-tier BBs like CS/Citi/DB/UBS and sees themselves "definitely being a mid-tier BB in 5 years" if things continue to go their way. Claims the deal flow has been pretty insane. Unbelievable culture from my interactions so far, and it seems that their compensation is just a bit over the street. Historically has 70-80% FT return offer rate (maybe higher). Also no idea what placements are like, but I see that most people just stay on as associates (maybe very hard to go into MM PE from RBC?)
Tudor Pickering Holt (TPH) - Perella Weinberg Partners (PWP)'s Oil & Gas arm in Houston: I know for sure that this is definitely the best choice in terms of deal flow, compensation and exit opportunities. Out of the 6-7 analysts per class, usually 1 goes to KKR Energy Houston, 1 to Blackstone Energy NYC, 1 to Blackstone GSO Energy, 1 to Riverstone, rest stay on as associates for apparently higher compensation. Confirmed 1st year analyst compensation all-in is around 175-185k, which is insane with the cost of living in Houston. 100% FT return offer rate and supposedly great culture and only does M&A work. Only con is that I have no idea if I even want to do Oil & Gas and don't know if I want to be in Houston for 2 years (no friends/family in anywhere close to Texas). However, TPH and PWP offers a guarantee that if I end up hating Oil & Gas or Houston, I can move to PWP's NYC office after 2 years in Houston to be a 3rd year analyst and then move on as associate there and such. Again, great exit opportunities except idk if I want to do Oil & Gas / Energy for the rest of my life. Preference is definitely NYC, as there is no way in hell I'm living in Houston more than I have to.
My end goal here is to go to a pure MM PE firm in NYC after 2 years as an analyst (but I'll definitely take MF Energy if I sign with TPH). Any additional information or comments to what I have said above will be very helpful. Please rank those firms, taking in consideration that my end goal is MM PE in NYC.
@buylmt" Pretty sure this is this guy's new account. Congrats regardless.
Thought so too haha.
Not even gonna try to use the new account hahaha it was just in case HR actually reads WSO but I really doubt thats the case
TPH hands down, not even close. Even for NYC PE the modeling TPH does will get you wherever
You said your end goal is to go to a pure MM PE firm in NYC after 2 years as an analyst.
The guy above is wrong. RBC is, and will always be, a joke. Pick like this: 1. TPH or Guggenheim (depending on your location preference) - This year's Guggenheim analyst class exited well, you should get at least MM PE and potentially a mega fund if you are the best 2. DB NYC (they still exit to MM PE) 3. RBC NYC - they've never exited anyone to MM PE. May even be a stretch for lower-MM PE. Avoid these guys!
May I ask what your background is? Just wanna make sure I'm getting the right advice (no offense at all) haha. Whats the FT return offer like for SA?
Offer from one of the banks
An alumni from my school was RBC NY and ended up at Providence Equity which is pretty much the definition of MM PE, so not sure what your point is here.
One analyst in a class of hundreds. Great!
providence is considered MM PE? doesn't it have over 70 bil AUM and do large scale media and comms buyouts?
^
This is false. A simple LinkedIn search will show plenty.
.
IMO, DB is risky right now, I wouldn't accept an SA offer this far in advance given all of the recent news on them.
TPH is great but it might pigeonhole you into O&G. You'll be in Houston which will make it difficult logistically speaking to network with NYC firms [as opposed to meeting up a banker during your lunch time at X bank in NYC] if you want to gain an edge for FT recruiting.
I think the battle is between Guggenheim and RBC. Both banks that are growing tremendously, one with an M&A focus, the other with a large balance sheet. If you're going into M&A at RBC and not have a pick at other groups [like LevFin], might as well go to Guggenheim instead which has been winning large M&A mandates recently and pays more.
Hope that helps.
Gutfreund_ What do you think DB, RBC, and Guggenheim will look like in 3 years? The reason I'm asking this is because as crazy as it sounds, I should be thinking 3-5 years into the future since I'm only a sophomore... Still insane why they recruit so early
Are these sophomore offers?
I'm still in school too so take what I say with a grain of salt. DB is very uncertain as I said, search up some recent news on them. RBC and Guggenheim have a ton of potential. A lot of people think RBC will soon be considered a BB in the next few years [maybe replacing UBS, DB?], however their M&A practice is not as strong as their financing. BUT, doing M&A anywhere will set you up very well for lateral recruiting, so that's something to consider. As far as Guggenheim, there's a lot of debate on whether they are a MM or EB. Supposedly their most recent analyst class had some solid exits, but people tend to exaggerate so I wouldn't place my bets on that. You might get exposure to some large deals if they continue to perform the way they have in the past 2-3 years. To answer your question, in 3-5 years I think DB won't even have an IB practice, RBC will become an even bigger player in the financing space competing with BAML and JPM for mandates, and Guggenheim analysts might get better exits which will attract better talent to the firm and might put you in a solid spot.
In your shoes and depending on what you're interested in I would go for RBC or Guggenheim. Have friends at both and they love the experience and culture, but are still trying to lateral to a better shop, mainly for exit opp. purposes.
When did RBC start doing direct M&A SA placements?
Not a guarantee, but senior bankers specifically in that group reached out after that they would like me to join their group. obviously I understand nothing is a guarantee though, is there a better group at RBC I should be looking at for better MM PE exit opps?
Tbh if you end up in industry coverage at RBC your chances of MM PE are pretty much zero unless you turn out to be a rock star analyst.
Could you give me examples of prior/current MM PE exits from the firms I listed? Honestly having a hard time figuring this out through LinkedIn because there are so many vanilla MM PE funds
TPH is a really great shop, know some guys there and like them a lot. I’d choose them based on your offers but I’d caution that those exits are not a class standard. Their exits are pretty good but they’re not sending a guy to each of those funds, more like 1 every two to three years per energy MF which is still really really good, but does lag MS, EVR, and maybe GS recently.
That said, they’ve been doing really well lately so you can’t go wrong.
Greg Marmalard Is it possible to exit from TPH to non-energy focused PE in NYC? I have no idea if I will like oil&gas or not... They did say I could transfer to PWP NYC for my third year, but I heard recruiting for PE is basically impossible by 3rd year.
I don’t know. I would guess that it’d be probably pretty difficult given that your skill set would be so upstream O&G heavy but there could be kids that go generalist from TPH that I haven’t heard about. If you really want to go generalist then try and get a good amount of OFS exposure as that’s the most transferable.
I doubt you’d get MF looks but you can do immediate start for PE as a 3rd year. I’m not saying it’d be easy but definitely doable.
Gugg > RBC > DB > TPH Two of my good pals are summering at Gugg and RBC this coming summer. RBC M&A, Lev Fin, and CME have good placement into PE .
Mid April and banks already giving this many offers out for internships starting over a year later.... God help us.
Congrats on the offers OP
After speaking with a bunch of older friends / alumni, I now have a pretty good knowledge on DB/RBC/TPH and know that all of these have risks. I just need a lot more info on Guggenheim, as no one I spoke with has much info on them and the stuff on WSO is extremely mixed.
I can't tell you about junior level, but at senior level they basically hire good MDs from other banks and have been doing great in landing large M&A deals. TMT and Healthcare are two prime examples. They mostly do M&A, so you won't see much financing / IPO or product vs. coverage type issues at places like RBC / DB or any of the BBs.
Are they an elite boutique? Who knows. But they have the right senior people and have been doing the deals. Maybe not CenterView, but in my sector probably doing better than Moelis / Evercore. Overall, they are much younger / unproven than the rest of the EB/boutique.
I should add that going to RBC or DB over Guggenheim would be dumb. It’s not Wells Fargo or something. TPH is a question around if you want to be in Houston / energy only guy
FWIW, you’re overselling Guggenheim a bit; they’re good but not EVR/Moelis good, but those aren’t the comps here.
Imo Guggenheim is much ahead of all the other firms listed for NYC PE...and as others have mentioned is still relatively new, but landing huge M&A deals... so exits will probably continue to get better
Guggenheim/DB depending on DB's restructuring RBC at #2 Unless you want O&G, TPH is last, if you want O&G, it is first.
RBC at number 1? Get out of here lmao! That's just dumb
Guggenheim head and shoulders above the rest.
important to note that tph is pwp and you could perhaps move to new york for a more generalist role if you are interested
tph also pays well above street heard juniors last year pulled in over 160k
One last bump for DB vs RBC M&A specific group vs Guggenheim
Gugg > RBC > DB
Would not want to be in DB with all the uncertainty
RBC is such an unknown. It doesn't matter if there's uncertainty. DB is still very respected in PE / HF.
https://www.db.com/newsroom_news/2018/deutsche-bank-announces-actions-t…
Came out today. I think this should really nail this debate regarding DB.
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