Depression and no idea what to do
I am a 28 year old prop trader, I am not a top performer.
Ever since graduating college a few years ago I have been depressed. I have found it very hard to meet new people and I feel dead inside. The type of work I am doing is not helping this either.
I have been thinking a lot about the decision I have made in my life. Most of them I regret, especially in terms of education and social development.
I have already seeked professional help, but this has not helped me at all. At my work I can not share these thoughts for Obvious reasons I guess.
I feel stuck in this job at the same time. As I graduated college with just a bachelors in commerce and do not have any professional experience outside of this job.
Sometimes I am thinking of asking for a break, or just quit all together. While I do have some savings which can last me 2-3 years in a cheap country, this is not a very good decision because I will have a very hard time finding something else upon my return.
Lately I have started to consider all kind of different paths I might take. Business school, getting an pilot license, going to medschool and what not. I know that this is just a waste of time, as I likely won't pursue either except maybe the former. Unfortunately my GPA was only a 3.5 and again I do not have any ECs or WE.
I know the proper advice is to just continue to seek help. But I was wondering if anyone on this forum has ever felt the same and what steps they took.
My situation is different to yours as I just finished my undergrad, but thought I'd share.
Depression really screwed me over academically - when you're at college you don't really ever have to be anywhere or do anything, and you have so much free time, so it's very easy to let depression consume you entirely. I spent hours in bed drifting in and out of sleep, crying and feeling as though my life was pointless and I was a failure.
Eventually those hours turned into days of not getting out of bed and being in a fever-like state. I stopped caring about class attendance, let alone the material and my grades. Of course this resulted in a huge clusterfuck, lots of re-takes, and me taking two years more than I should've to finish undergrad.
Socially speaking, I'd go for weeks at a time without wanting to see or talk to anyone; not online, not on the phone, and definitely not in person. However, between those bouts of isolation, I went to the other extreme - I'd go out almost every night of the week, invite every friend I knew, stay at whatever club we were at until I was literally kicked out at closing time, and then find an afterparty.
I was seeing a therapist and tried out a few different medications. Talking to the therapist helped a lot in terms of understanding why I was in so much pain, but it didn't alleviate the pain itself. I never lasted long on the medication; it made me drowsy, moody and dead on the inside. The sleep meds were useful though, because they knocked me right out and stopped the frantic half-asleep, half-awake psychological hell.
Graduating and starting a grad job made things a lot better for me - especially in S&T, where I actually need to be present and alert. When you're contractually obliged to be at your desk in the morning and do stuff, yeah, it's still fucking hard and I still feel awful a lot of the time, but I can no longer afford the week-long benders crying in bed and/or drinking and going out.
Because of that, I wouldn't recommend taking time off. It sounds like you definitely do deserve, and need, a break. However, if your brand of depression is anything like mine I worry that it might do you more harm than good, and that it could result in you slipping even further into depression. But you know yourself better than I do; maybe what destroyed me is exactly what you need to build you back up.
Having said that, I think a change of scenery would be good. I think another big reason why I'm doing better now is just because of the new environment - it forced me to think about other things, meet new people, and gave me a sense of purpose. From what you're saying it sounds like you're at a bit of a dead end with your job, and I know what that feels like because I felt like I was at a dead end with my degree for years. Just finally finishing it and moving on to something else helped me more than you'll ever know.
I'm by no means "cured" - I still feel sad a lot of the time, I still struggle to get out of bed and I still let it fuck up my relationships and personal life. But starting an entirely new job and lifestyle has done a LOT of damage control, and compared to the low point where I was this January, I feel incredibly lucky. It's good that you're thinking of how to make a change - you'll figure out what the change you need is eventually, and although things probably won't be brilliant for a while, they'll definitely start looking up.
it sounds like prop trader might not be the right career for you. There are many careers in the world. Years ago, common career advice was either "do something you love" or "do what makes you the most money" but that advice is crap...better advice is "do something that is useful, and that you enjoy"
(full disclosure...i am a prop trader...i think i'm pretty good...tho i do miss the camaraderie of my former BB traders)
Personally, i love prop trading. i think watching the markets (futures mainly) is fun...and whenever i have a risk position on, my energy is fully focused. At the end of a good day, the rush i get is like no other...i feel invincible.
I've never suffered from clinical depression (tho i know people who have) so i won't patronize you by saying "just take the prozac/wellbutrin and get over it." Sure, i've been sad...everybody gets sad sometimes. I understand depression is the inability to mentally remove yourself from the cycyle of "downward" thinking. This is usually due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, and that's why drugs like Prozac and Wellbutrin are often prescribed to "fix" depression. Unfortunately, those drugs don't allow your brain to have the "normal" cycle of happy and sad (so i've been told)...and that itself can be frustrating.
Ideally, you can "fix" your depression thru "fake it till you make it" activity. Some people have success with this (tho not everybody who tries). I'd suggest giving it a shot and see if it helps you.
For example, try putting yourself on a schedule of activities, such as Yoga (or some other group fitness class) Gardening/farming with a group Cooking with a group
Really, any kind of social/team building activities.
There is a great satisfaction as a human being from doing something useful for other people / society (we are 'social animals' afterall). For example, doctor, nurse, teacher. Even a carpenter is useful to society. These people interact with, help, lead other people every day. Prop trader? Not so much. In order to be a successful prop trader, you have to love it, even tho it is a very isolating career.
Why did you become a prop trader? Probably because you thought you'd make a lot of money, and you thought that would solve all your problems. Newsflash: life doesn't work that way, and if you're not making a lot of money anyway...
So, fix your mistake. Answer the question "what can i do that is useful?" Come up with a list. Then from that list, pick the thing that you would enjoy the most...and then become really good at it. Maybe you need to go back to school...maybe not. It all depends on the career you choose.
This step can take some time..feel free to get creative...not just google...there are so many career paths out there in the world...we as prop traders can pigeon hole ourselves, because we are staring at a screen all day. There is a big world out there. You gotta go outside and mingle with the people.
First make that list of things that you can do, that are useful to others. One step at a time. Don't worry at first with "being happy"..because "happy" is a state of mind...and that changes based on whatever activity you are currently engaging. Change activity, and your mood will change.
Market maker? I thought the culture in those places was rather relaxed and made it easier to meet new people. Also there is one thing I don't understand: You look like if you've been in prop. >3 years ('coz age) and still your savings only would last 2 years in a cheap country, what kind of living do you have? Slow down mate.
Take a sabbatical - NOW! They are are more and more accepted in the industry and with it you might even stand out when applying for a different role afterwards.
But apart from that, how can you excel if you are depressed. So no point in staying in your current role anyway. I have just come back from a one year sabbatical and feel really energised :)
And who knows, maybe during traveling you find out that your dream job is something else...
if you are depressed, do NOT attempt to get a pilot's license.
It's not fair, but neither is having a plane crash into your house.
@Brady4MVP
In all seriousness, what do you do with your free time?
We gotta find you a fun outdoor sport before winter comes.
Think about it like this my friend: you have a four year degree, something 66% of Americans cannot say. You got a 3.5 GPA, Dean's List at pretty much any school in the country. You work in Prop. Trading, a very coveted financial occupation. In my opinion, you're doing very well for yourself and have a resume which makes you immensely employable.
Quit your job, or take a good amount of time off. You've been in the grind for years now. Go drink some beers, sit on a beach and meet some beautiful women. Start reading again, watch great movies, learn an instrument. Do things you enjoy, because you have $ saved and you know you'll never be unemployed.
In comparison to the billions of duds in the world, you're absolutely killing it. So, I'd stop worrying about occupational manners and focus on your soul. It is, although many people on this site don't seem to realize, much more important than whatever job you are currently tied to.
Let's start with the basics.
OP needs to exercise all of his vacation time.
If not a 100% city type, it would probably be helpful to spend many or most of his weekends outside NYC, at least till winter. I recommend a fun, safe sport, like hang gliding, skydiving, climbing or slacklining, SCUBA, or surfing as a great excuse to get out of the city, get away from finance, and make friends with sane, reasonable, people.
Hard to think about the markets or last week's fuck-up while 100% of your attention is devoted to getting a hang glider launched before you go over the cliff.
good advice, but if those are your ideas of safe sports I would love to hear what you would consider unsafe lol
Hmm, alright I can give you some advice as I've been suffering from depression myself for 4 years.
I have a couple of questions though and I understand if you don't want to reply to them in public, so feel free to pm in that case.
Picking up from my last question, having positive things in your life is the key. If your mood is down the toilet, try at least the following things: daily sunlight, chocolate, physical exercise. Those all help and continuity is what matters, they do wonders in the long term.
Once you do those regularly, you can move to the next step: hobbies. You need something you enjoy in life, badly. If your past hobbies do not do that anymore for you, you'll have to find new ones. You mention you regret a lot; I went through that as well: overthinking, ''what ifs'', regret, regret, regret, self hate. You'll end up at war with yourself and there's only one possible loser, you. How do you prevent that? Keep your mind busy with cheerful things. Easier said than done? I'm not saying it's easy at all. You might need medication and it might take 6 months-1 year to see some effect on you. There isn't really a better alternative than keeping your mind busy. Sure your job is 12 hours a day, Mon-Fri; weekends fun is a must though. Go to a theme park, get a girlfriend, whatever you want.
You lack good friends? I can count a handful of those too. Out of 100 people, 99 will bore me within minutes, the few who do not however are those that matter.
Finally, I'd strongly advise against taking decisions about your future without a clear(ER) mind. You'd end up having more stuff to regret and the fire is burning already.
A lot of good advice and words of encouragement have already been said. Speaking from my own experience with it, a change of pace with life could be refreshing for you. For me it was to go backpacking in a foreign country for a few months.
Ultimately though, I think the best thing you can do, without changing anything at the moment, is understanding yourself more. Why do you feel as you do? What about your personality makes you feel like that? Usually it helps to talk to a psychologist for that.
For me, it helps to count my blessings, we have a lot to be thankful for (I.e. educated, have a job) that a LARGE portion of the world doesn't have. Secondly, get involved, try doing yoga, go volunteer on the weekend, the less "free time" you have, the less you can overthink things, which is usually my issue.
Meeting people is refreshing too. blind dates, tinder, OkCupid, whatever, it doesnt matter. Just be open to finding opportunities to live life. Not everything is about the paycheck, most happiness is derived from things other than money (obviously you need financial security...but you know what i mean) anyway. Go out there and find what that happiness is for you.
I hope your situation improves.
Read the book "Spark" by John Ratey. Not sure if you work out, run, or do anything physical but exercise does wonders for the brain. It wont help immediately but will definitely do more good than harm
dear fknk,
dont like to talk about things like this on here but thought it might help. a few years ago, i decided to move back to asia from US. it was a major adjustments: reverse culture shocks - work place conflicts, family issues, gf in NY cheated, and really hated my immediate social groups. i thought of committing suicides multiple times. i thought about blowing up my office buildings and shooting all my co-workers.
today, i am happily adjusted. i am not longer angry or frustrated.
i can go on and on and give you a long winded explanation but the solution is very simple. i did two things:
happiness is not a destination. it is being present in the wherever you are. stop thinking that something has to happen for you to happy - you just have to learn how to live with yourself. your mind is your own worst enemy.
i separate the "stimulants" and "reactions". stimulants - everyday someone something will piss you off; and you have no control over this. but you can control your "reactions". you have all the power to "interpret" what happened in your life.
for example, "your boss refused to give you a promotion." negative reaction - "he is a fucking asshole. i am going to fucking kill him." positive reaction - "let's learn how i can be better. or let's find a better platform to work for. or let's find a way to resolve this issue more professionally. or let's find a way to reach out to his boss to deal with this."
net net, there are many ways to get what you want. if you can't through the front door - try the windows, the back doors, or dig your way into the house.
make time for gratitude. :)
with love, harvey
Have you thought about going back for an MBA? Seems like you are looking for a few things that an MBA might help out with
Meeting peers, making friends, being a member of clubs, resetting your career, figuring out where you want to go next etc.
You said you have some money saved up and at 28 with a few years of work experience you could apply soon and go next year.
Read more inspirational books. Keep your mind busy as much as you can. You can go for laughter therapy along with it. I hope it will be useful to you.
Advice on dealing with mild depression/zoning out (Originally Posted: 11/24/2016)
My apologies for the rambling but any advice would be sincerely appreciated.
I recently moved from a mega city to a middle-of-nowhere city mainly for my new job in corp dev. This is something I've always wanted to do, plus I believed the move would give me a huge learning experience and open doors to greater opportunities down the road.
2.5 months now, I have been trying to settle down in this new environment. The job is as great as expected, but the new city is so lifeless that it gives me no energy or motivation to do anything. It is true that fierce competition in big cities makes people more driven. I have managed to keep my old lifestyle (reading books & hitting the gym everyday, however still gained 5 lbs due to shitty food options). Also made some new friends and slowly established a social life for the weekend.
Regardless, I still feel lonely and empty. I found myself crying on the spinning bike or during my run a couple of times. All motivation has been replaced with pure habits. And the worst, I CAN'T focus at work. Despite the sizable workload (which my workaholic mentality has always begged for) and performance pressure, I constantly zone out, procrastinate and waste a lot of time on social media instead of using that time to learn about the industry. Adderall, coffee and mild migraine from the low-carb diet are not helping either.
Today my associate gave me a soft notice on my performance and I need to get my head back to the game asap. If it's the new environment that is destroying my motivation and affecting my work, that's something I can't change unless I move away from here lol. Do you think I should go see a doctor and get some anti-depressant?
A bit off the topic but dating life is also shitty here. Finding single girl friends to hang out with is even more difficult because people in the South get married at like 19.
Fuck that noise, brother. Come to Manhattan and we'll get you squared up proper with some eager women, some office competition, and a kick in the nuts
Stay strong and good luck getting out of this funk
I'm a girl, so will take your offer to come to Manhattan to netflix and chill with you then? Regardless, would not say no to meeting other eager women ;)
Stay away from pharmaceuticals to fix this. Take a vacation, start reaching out to Headhunters and take Lizard Brain up on his offer.
I would advise against ADHD medications in this manner. I think maintaining health should be a first priority, but I think it could be your subconscious talking to you, as well. Have you thought about moving to a bigger city?
I just moved here from NYC for this job and I have to stick with it for at least 2 years before leaving for b-school or switching to another gig.
I'm assuming you're in Atlanta, Houston, or Dallas. It's true that an insane amount of girls here are engaged or married (I'm located in one of these cities), but there are also a good amount that aren't. It just takes some time to get ingrained in the new social scene and figure out your environment. I can definitely see how depressing it can be though to move to the South and really not know anyone. It's easier when you went to school here and have social circles to fall back to. I'd recommend seeing if your college has monthly alumni gatherings.
Also, I'd recommend joining some cool classes or taking up a couple new hobbies. It's a good way to break your old, boring routine as well as meet cool new people.
One last thing, the location you live in is fucking crucial. Let's say you work downtown, but you live out in the boonies or some suburb in a random apartment complex...that's going to be a bad time. Move closer to where the young adults live.
Thanks for your advice. I wish I were in the cities you mentioned. I am in a very small city and have done every thing I could (volunteering, taking tennis classes, living in the most prime neighborhood). I do have friends and a social life, it's just the new environment is dull and lack characters. I've always been a big city girl so it's very difficult to adapt.
Have you heard of Adult Friend Finder or Plenty of Fish?
I tried Tinder. 95% of the guys are truck drivers, red necks or already had 1 kid.
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