I always see people talking about exit opportunities in HF, VC, or PE and never anything about staying in IB.
People always talk about"getting through" the tough hours to move on...
So does anyone really stay in their role and move up through the BB as their first choice?
Also, PE is known to also have crazy hours, as does VC (I think hedge funds are more flexible).
So if you are leaving to escape crazy hours, aren't you are just going to be dealing with a similar situation?
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yup, psychopaths stay in it
lol good to know
No I have interned in a MF VC firm and hours are 50-60
Intern =/= FT job.
I am saying the FT were 50-60 hours
Post-MBA associates
I’d say anyone who is risk-averse stays in IB. Compared to IB, a vast majority of people in PE or HF end up leaving after a few years because they aren’t good enough and moving to smaller PE/HF firms or to a different industry within finance (like corp dev or back to banking). But it shouldn’t be cause of that it should be cause of what you want to do.
At the most fundamental level: IB is working on deals to raise capital and profits off of the commission from their services. PE is working on deals to buy and fix private companies and then later sell them for a profit. HF is for trading public securities and derivatives for a profit.
If someone hates buying/investing for the long-term and likes the variety and number of deals, then IB will appeal more to him. You have to look at a person’s motives.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Most people who stay in IB does it because they like the whole selling process, pitching, holding auctions, bringing on new business etc. It doesn't have anything to do with risk-averse or not - you could work at a boutique IB where you are only paid on the deals you source, similar to a PE/HF structure.
I mentioned that toward the end of my answer. But everything plays a factor.
You are right to an extent. You live and die by your deals in PE. Screw up once and your entire career could be toast. In IB you can become somebody's execution bitch, crank deals forever and as long as you play the political game right you'll eventually make MD. Not that that's a bad thing. Just a simple fact.
I think that's a bit disingenuous. I think you can make a case that some PE guys can ride the coattails of their legacy platform and its investment committee for a long time before it dawns on their colleagues and LPs that they aren't really an investable GP.
For IB, you can make it to Director, but to make MD, you need to demonstrate the ability to bring in deal flow. That means you need to know a sector or product incredibly well and understand how to leverage your network to get new opportunities.
Very well said. many people write IB off the books though (from what I know) because of the work life balance. I know a lot of other VC PE HF that have hefty hours though too. But yes I think people don't consider this enough and that's why they burn out
left the first chance i got lol.
-ex-2nd year bb analyst
how bad was it tho
worked in a small C&R group, and as an anlalyst i was front loading the work of VP/Assoc given we didn't have enough people to cover the volume of the work required. so was getting killed everyday / weekend.. used these experience points to leverage a new position at a startup working under the CFO. best decision of my life.. good work/life balance, a lot of responsibility, but more interesting/impactful work
my best friend from childhood stayed in IB...is now an MD and co-head of his group (made MD around age 35)...and i think he makes 2-4mm/year. He likes talking to CEOs in the industry...has an impressive rolodex...and could leave to the buyside whenever he wants...but why bother...its a cushy life now.
Interesting I never hear a story from that perspective. So many people are just focused on getting out
Out of curiosity, what type of bank is he at (e.g., BB, EB, MM, etc.)? I'm sure that affects it to some degree.
definitely does^
I doubt if it's cushy. Co-head of a group will spend a ton of time (not one second of it rewarding) on administrative work, is under incredible pressure to bring in deals, constantly needing to recruit people at all levels, probably travels >2 days a week, takes calls at all hours / 7 days a week, and on top of all that, maintain his own client relationships to bring in and execute deals.
No one is paying anyone $2-$4 million for having hung around longer than everyone else.
To be fair that is the same for most of the corporate/finance/investing roles anywhere. Part of my family has such a lifestyle in the corporate ladder but they don't make 2-4mm. Finance pays better than other industries overall and at the top level you gotta work a lot. If it's not your clients that are calling you, its your boss that is on the other side of the world that wants your revised earnings projections for Q1 by tomorrow.
The really smart and/or creative types leave banking. And they should.
Intelligence / creativity doesn’t matter in banking.
It’s about networking and how much bs from clients / internal politics you can handle.
So it’s a great job for the risk averse person who is good at the above, but super smart and/or creative people go where being smart/creative matters (investing, startups).
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