Currently an1 at a lower-mid BB, looking to lateral to a tech group (currently at a different coverage team).
Feels like every top Tech/TMT group on the street is either insanely sweaty, toxic, or both these days. I'm not expecting an average WLB, but does anyone know what is the current state of the top / close to top groups?
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The top ones are for sure
Don’t think any WLB exists wherever you are. The low tier are absolute pitching machines which some might argue have worse hours/cultures than the top shops. The top groups deal flow is non stop which leads to demanding work. Endless cycle. AI, data centers, etc.
Which groups are considered best?
Q, GS SF TMT, and MS Menlo are the best and it's not that close. These will get the hottest mandates, leftover will go to the other firms (which are also fine, but in tech the difference between tier 1 vs tier 2/3 etc is quite substantial)
Curious as well. How sweaty are the top teams (Q, GS TMT SF, MS Menlo) given their crazy deal flow?
Somewhat familiar with some folks from these groups:
Q: Surprisingly chill culture. Make no mistake - you will get worked, so in that sense it is "sweaty" but the culture is relatively laid back
GS SF TMT: A little pretentious (it is GS after all.. and a top group within the firm) but culture has actually improved from what I heard. Still heavy on facetime and the hours are obviously long given what they work on, but the culture is pretty good
MS MP: Hours are bad, but that is a given for any top group. Culture has not improved, not toxic per se but can be hierarchical and a bit old school if that makese sense
One thing to caveat is that in all of these groups you will most likely work on some of the most interesting or coolest tech deals, thus that can make the long hours bearable or worth it (mind that almost all West Coast tech groups are "sweaty")
anyone have updates on MS Menlo? Seems to be quite a sweaty (but top) group but not sure if anything has changed.
Worst culture across the top teams. Still better than the likes of MOE SF for example. Not sure if they still take attendance...
what makes the culture so bad lol? I mean attendance is already a red flag, but do seniors just not respect your time or is everyone just quite sharp elbowed?
How hectic are the non-Q EBs like EVR MP, LAZ SF, MOE SF, CVP PA?
All very sweaty
Tech as an industry is less spread out in fee distribution than other industries. There is a much larger fall-off from the top 3 banks in M&A deal activity as so much of tech volume is driven by the mega deals every year. However, there's a ton of very good banks and bankers that make a living off of MM deals and sponsor deals such as the Moelis tech team. Moelis Tech is just legacy UBS tech, which is why they are so sponsor-heavy. However, after that tail of strong MM banks, you are in the banks that only exist to do capital markets things and pitch for M&A. Generally, all 3 are bad for different reasons.
A bit off-topic, but are there any groups on the street that cover digital assets (blockchain, crypto, stable coins, etc.)? Currently in a FIG group with exposure to fintech names and with new legislation (GENIUS and CLARITY acts), looking to start to transition to this sector. Was wondering if there are any big firms or boutiques that have dedicated advisory groups for this field. I know JPM has a digital assets group but I believe it is more of a markets / s&t role.
FT partners / HL
TD has a pretty good team that covers crypto
FTP far and away best boutique in crypto rn, even within M&A (would expect more cap raising in the space given nascent nature, though my personal view is some consolidation needs to happen as many undifferentiated exchanges etc exist)
Some of the bottom groups are bad too because the amount of pitching. Tech IB is dominated by a few banks and the rest need to pitch for things they’ll never get.
Any specific insight into Qatalyst? Hours/when you leave the office for WFH etc.
Kind of depends on what you mean by sweaty/toxic.
You may find a group where you can go out on Friday/Saturday night and take an hour off each night to go to the gym.
You’re not going to find a place where you are working under 80 hours on a regular basis unless you suck and no one wants to work with you
Former SVB/Moelis Tech analyst here.
Moelis Tech probably takes the cake for sweatiest tech group, at least from what I saw.
For context, as someone else already mentioned in this thread, the current Moelis Tech team is largely legacy UBS / SVB Tech. The rough lineage is that the core team started at Jefferies, moved over to UBS with the group head, then eventually went to SVB Securities to build out the tech banking franchise there. After SVB collapsed, a very large portion of us, from analysts through senior MDs from SF/NYC/BOS, moved over to Moelis.
The SVBS Tech team was already extremely sweaty before Moelis. A big part of that was the sponsor-heavy nature of the business. The team did a ton of sponsor relationship work, portfolio reviews, favors, speculative pitches, and long-shot “maybe this turns into something one day” projects. A lot of the work was not necessarily live deal execution. It was often things like building very detailed 50-60 page decks for a sponsor’s portfolio company on some random strategic angle or trend, such as one for done for a sponsor PortCo that’s a software company that develops applications for gas stations and their convenience stores on how the rapid EV adoption and the electrification of cars could impact gas station convenience stores and therefore the company’s business. That type of work was not unusual. It was just the kind of thing the team would grind on to stay close to sponsors and try to win future business. But one of the most frustrating things is that despite doing all these favors and putting so much effort into these far flung decks, often is the case that these PortCos/sponsors would end up choosing a different bank as their sell-side advisor.
The other major issue is staffing. The team relies very heavily on cross-staffing, and basically every deal team ends up being cross-staffed in some way. When the we moved to Moelis, they brought over something like 40-50 people across levels. Moelis already had a tech team, but not only were they not that good but the cultures were very different. The legacy Moelis Tech group was much more chill by comparison, at least relatively speaking, while us on the SVBS Tech team came in with a much more intense operating model.
So the funny dynamic was that Moelis already has a reputation for being a sweaty bank, but us from the SVBS Tech team basically looked at the existing Moelis Tech culture and seemed to think it was not intense enough. Over time, the SVBS way of operating basically became the dominant culture. A lot of the legacy Moelis Tech junior/senior team did not really fit into that environment and eventually got pushed out or left.
To be fair, the group does win deals. They are definitely relevant, especially in sponsor-oriented tech. But if your question is specifically about lifestyle, culture, and sweatiness, I would be very cautious. The group is extremely intense, heavily sponsor-focused, and very political. It is not really the type of place where being technically strong alone is enough. A lot depends on which senior bankers like you, whose orbit you are in, and how well you can navigate the internal politics.
So yes, they get good reps and you will see interesting tech situations, but anyone considering the group should go in with eyes wide open. In my view, it is about as sweaty as it gets, even by tech banking standards.
Is MOE sweatier than GS TMT SF and MS Menlo? Always heard the EBs (MOE, EVR, LAZ) are especially sweaty in tech IB
All the same. There is a ceiling on how much you can work as hours in a day is finite.
What about MM tech groups like WB, RJ, HL, Piper, Lincoln, etc.? Are any of these banks decent? However you want to measure that as.
Frankly, they aren't relevant in tech IB. Their only deal flow is pretty much sponsor backed MM deals, which is terribly boring. Ut does bring in fees though but purely from a prestige perspective, these deals are considered lower quality
What about Citi?
How is UBS tech?
horrific just horrific constant pitching machine heard they had sub 25% return offer rate for interns last year. I don’t think they got staffed on a deal all summer. Smart ones networked out of it. Unlucky ones rerecruited
Don't work in TMT but I get the sense every tech group is sweaty, but it's the same ~5 banks around every tech deal, and the other banks are pitch machines.
Was in TMT before lateraling to M&A. This is completely accurate.
which banks are the top?
are all M&A groups sweaty?
How is Citi tech?
sucks
Can you provide more detail? Isn’t software strong?
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