Hi everyone,
I am in a dilemma regarding my future education path. I am currently a sophomore math major at a top 10 liberal arts school (not target) and looking to break into management consulting. Job search out of a LAC can be tough, especially as an international student. For that reason, I have been preparing to take a 3-2 engineering dual degree program with Columbia where I would a BA from my LAC and a BS in Operations Research from Columbia in 5 years. But alternatively, some people have been recommending me to finish my BA in the typical 4 years and spend an extra year or so completing a masters instead.
There numerous factors for me to consider. Cost is quite a significant element. At my LAC, I have full aid, where at Columbia I would have little to no aid for those 2 years. The cost then turns out to be around 140k compared to 90-100k for a Masters. With the 3-2, I am hoping that this would help with recruiting and networking. Should I leave the US early in my career, I am hoping that the Columbia sticker helps with foreign recruitment. Nonetheless, I've currently finished sophomore year with a 4.0 so a decent masters is possibly within reach as well. I do plan to pursue an MBA in the near future.
I hear that the nature and experience of undergrad education are quite different from that of postgrad; in what particular ways are these distinctively different? Overall, I feel like I am leaning towards the 3-2, but one of my questions is how this program is viewed by recruiters; it is not very hard - 3.3 GPA and course requirements for guaranteed admission.
Considering these factors and other ones if anyone has recommendations, I was hoping to seek some advice as to which path I should take. I am aware there are other paths, e.g. finishing up at my LAC, working, and then getting MBA, or applying for transfer (which I have but results TBD). Thank you in advance for any opinions!
Dual degree as you will have on campus recruiting. Master won't have that many. Top 10 LAC is non-target? You just didn't network. If you can't get a good job with top 10 lac, you won't find one in Columbia either as they are competing with more people for interview slots.
I certainly agree with you that there is a lot more potential in my LAC's alumni network that I need to explore. By not being a target, I just mostly mean that none of the major consulting companies come to recruit on-campus, and a few of our alumni in consulting have told us that our school basically gets no bonus points. (5% of our recent graduating class went into finance; not exactly consulting, but it kinda shows the general student body isn't geared in this direction). For sure, the hustle is real, regardless where I am. Anyhow, thank you for your advice, I plan to be moving in the 3-2 direction afterall.
There is no OCR for MBB in Columbia either. There is OCR in Wharton.
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That's great to hear! For academics, my personal experience is that attention to detail and picking the right profs is important. The same course taught by one prof can be quite chill and be absolute hell when taught by another prof. In top 10 LAC everyone is smart, but exams don't count for as much as in high school so paying more attention other smaller assignments like hmwk / labs can really help to bring grades up a category; this is really time consuming, which often differentiates smart students.
As for ECs I try to do all I can in school thats relevant, unfortunately that's just one investment club and a consulting club, and the consulting club recently disbanded lol. I'm working with my friends to start another business-related club. Aside from that I did HBX Core and had a summer internship at a large bank over freshman summer. I hope that's helpful.
As someone who's finished that 3+2, what Ruhm says is accurate that the program is only worth it if you already have a plan before you start for your summer internship. By the time you start your first class is already internship application deadline.
I wasn't an FE but FE is a very time-consuming track in OR (if you didn't know it, FE track is optional), lots of difficult classes like game theory and stochastic calc. I saw a few FE buddies get BB IBD offers though through the 3+2, if that's what you're gunning for, but it's notoriously difficult for international students. Just because the FE program is viewed as more prestigious, particularly among the international students crowd, I can't comment on how necessary it is for you to accomplish your goals.
Good luck.
Second this. Only do FE if you wanna be a quant or trader.
Yea I've heard FE at Columbia is very rigorous. I had thoughts about FE, but I find myself mostly interested in EMS (engineering management science). The concentration has similar core classes with some additional human factors / entrepreneurship courses. Is this path known to be a good lead into a more business-related field like consulting?
I would recommend the dual degree if you plan on staying in the US. A masters might be well recognized elsewhere but it's not going to match the opportunities you get from a 3-2 at Columbia. Be ready to network like crazy when you get there, though, as you will only have one summer opportunity with the Columbia rubber stamp.
Yea networking will definitely be crucial, just like Eric_s said above. Considering your advice, and some other inputs I've had recently, I feel like I'm quite set on this path now. Thank you!
Going by the same logic then, do you mean that a masters might be a better option if I were planning to work outside of US immediately / soon after I finish school?
Depends on the location. It's more common to start with a masters in Western Europe, for example, and it tends to be less frequent in ME&A.
Then again, a degree from Columbia looks good everywhere.
Currently finishing up a one year long masters program myself with the goal of getting into consulting during the upcoming hiring cycle. What I've learned is that B-School alone won't improve your odds of getting into Management Consulting; you need put in the extra-curriculars and the networking.
It also really depends on what the school's career center has to offer, check whether they've had campus recruitment from the firms you'd like to work at (McKinsey, BCG, Deloitte, etc, usually have lists of schools they've been to or will be going to next year that aren't too hard to dig up).
A few of the graduates from the program are in management consulting (at various positions) now, and the ones that I've spoken to have all found the one year master's highly useful.
One thing that you might find helpful is to break it down in excel what each 'path' would cost you to get into Consulting vs other opportunities. How likely would you be able to find a job if you didn't take the extra year? How much would that job put you ahead of other candidates? Etc.
Best luck!
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