Hi, heard some really good advice on this forum. Wanted advice on whether to take econ consulting (AG, cornerstone, CRA), HK IBD (cap markets) or MM IBD in a tier 2 city. Long term goal is to do MBA/grad school and maximize pay. Also want to do something that is well regarded globally as I'm international.
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Would you mind elaborating on what kinds of questions were asked in econ consulting, if not inconvenient? Thanks.
I'd say the econ consulting firms you mentioned are best for MBA/grad school maximization while MM IBD in a tier 2 city is for salary maximization (unsure how much HK IBD pays but I'd imagine it is lower than U.S. counterparts in USD).
Econ consulting firm salary is definitely lower than IBD at junior levels but I imagine the comp differential starts to tighten at more senior levels, especially when comparing with an MM IBD. Also, econ consulting firms hours tend to average at around 50 a week, so the $/hour prob isn't all that different.
If you want to pivot to a better IB firm or MBB, then take econ consulting to go to a great business school (seems most place into MBA business schools">M7 easily) and recruit post-MBA for a firm or industry of your choice.
HK IBD's pre-tax pay is higher than US counterparts plus you have housing stipend and super low tax rates
Yes and extremely bad hours. Like IB hours are bad anywhere but HK IB hours hit different. Also fairly easy to go from US to HK and even get a bonus or promotion during the move, but almost impossible to move from HK to US
I wouldnt take econ consulting. It pays considerably less than the other two options and the work can be quite boring (subjective). Also I'm not sure where you are getting that it places well into MBA programs - It only really places into postgrad econ/public policy degrees because it is a field very closely related with academia. A masters and eventually a phd is basically a requirement at most firms if you want to keep climbing the ladder
This has been my impression as well- I have seen people place into MBAs but grad school more common. Also agree that nature of work is boring.
While I have heard pay at senior level is solid (still much lower than IBD ofc), the barriers to entry are much higher i.e. Phd
As someone who spent two years in investment banking at a BB, and then two years in Econ consulting at one of the well-known Econ consulting firms before moving into tech, I can add some perspective.
I think you should do more than just optimize for money and for doing an MBA/grad school, but really think about the type of work you would enjoy most and what you may want to do as a career long-term (even though this may change). I personally preferred Econ consulting to banking (I hated banking with a passion) and prefer my current role in tech to them both. Some things to consider for both roles:
Banking: Horrible hours, I imagine especially in HK. I think most people go into banking thinking they can handle it, but it is so incredibly mentally and physically draining to be working crazy hours all the time and to not be able to really have a personal life outside of work that it is much worse than most people expect. I didn’t find the work to be very stimulating (I feel like it’s a lot of following orders and not a lot of actual independent thinking). Culture varies by firm and by group by in my experience it was incredibly toxic. I would really only consider doing banking if you’re thinking about transitioning to private equity and building a career in finance.
Econ consulting: Lower pay, but way better hours which was worth it to me. Hours could be bad sometimes but even the worst weeks I had in Econ consulting were only as bad as an average week in banking. I think the work can be really interesting at times, and super boring at other times. I didn’t love the law aspect of the job. Good for those who are really quantitative-minded and like Econ, math, and statistics. If you want to go to grad school after, it’s not a bad place to be - Econ consultants have pretty good placement into grad school programs. Others on this thread have mentioned the lack of exit opps, which I think is generally true given how niche it is. However, one relatively new exit opp for Econ consultants is going into data analyst/data scientist/business operations roles at tech firms (which is what I did) so that’s worth considering. I transitioned to being a product analyst at a major tech firm and I love it - work is more interesting, hours are better, and pay (per hour) are better than what I had in either banking or Econ consulting.
second this. kids from Econ consulting always get spots at B-schools with less competition.
Consider that each field is quite different. The things you will do in economic consulting (EC) are pretty different from IB, hence why exit opportunities either way are rare. If you want to stick it out for the long-haul in EC, it isn't a bad career choice. Partners in firms like mine make high 6-figures/low 7-figures in compensation and get to work on incredibly high profile deals. Consider that in EC you're also a bit more diversified from simple M&A economic advisory. You also work on competition considerations for any form of collaboration (carve-out, JV, equity partnership etc) as well as price gauging cases, cartel investigations and unfair business practices. From an international standpoint, EC gives you the chance to move around the world if you end up at a top firm as they have offices all over the globe. Pay is also pretty good at both junior and middle-seniority levels. Hours can be brutal depending on the case/investigation you deal with but I would generally say 60-70h/week. EC is pretty cool, I would recommend doing some more research in the field and speaking to people at some of the better known firms such as: CRA, NERA, The Analysis Group, Compass Lexicon, Cornerstone, Frontier Economics, Edgeworth Economics (although we raided their senior team recently) and Oxera.
couple of questions for you:
1) What is comp at junior levels? 2) I have noticed that too become partner-level you generally need a Phd in econ (at least from reading bios of these partners) 3) what are the most common exits aside from PhD or MBA?
1) $70-80K in the US, GBP 40-50 in the UK for entry level roles. Bonus is 20-30% base. This is the broad range for the industry and not just CRA. 2) Often yes, but not everyone does. You can grind your way up, although it helps to have a PhD 3) Realistically, many exit opportunities will be within the space and often entail moving around between competitors. You can also move into academia (so research as you said, as well as teaching), regulatory roles at competition watchdog organisations, economic/economist roles within financial institutions or corporate companies and economic-related government roles. A few people can end up going to law firms since you have a tight relationship with them during the majority of projects.
HK capital markets would be better if you want to do an MBA. Exit would be limited though if you are not PRC (if you are PRC then you may end up switching to sector team + end up joining corporate strategy / development positions at Chinese internet companies).
Econ consulting is as niche as doing FIG IBD imo.
MM IBD has almost 0 chance returning to HK/China but it is not a bad option is you grew up in the US + good at the western style socializing and fine with having a long term career in the US
HK IBD, regardless of teams you are in, are usually PE or bust. Options are extremely crappy outside joining PE funds or another IB (or occasionally you get to join a decent role in tech but it still sucks vs continuing in IBD). Weird enough even in capital markets you can head to MF fund there. Do a linkedin search and you will find Oaktree hiring several DCM folks. Typically they don't care that much about deal experiences. Your willingness to relocate back to China + acing modeling test would be more important
LOL WTF I wonder who threw MS at me.
I worked at a BB in HK and now in PE. Reply instead of just hiding and throwing MS if you think you know more
SBed as the Chinese exits you mentioned look align with what I've seen :)
Alongside I have a couple question regarding my own situation and would appreciate some thoughts on:
I'm currently looking to start at a tier 2 IB chinese firm in IBD. As a Chinese American with native Chinese fluency about to graduate from a non-target, could you shed some light on the lateraling process into one of the BBs?
Have you hear any success stories of people with similar background of mine making the successful lateral, or could speak on when the process generally occurs and what makes a solid candidate for BBs to take as lateral?
I have passed modeling tests in interviews with firm in HK before so my technical is mostly on point with whats required.
I'd assume that it would be a far reach to lateral from a Chinese firm that isn't CICC or CLSA, but many analysts I've interned with had done it in the past and hopefully my native Chinese & American background could make me stand out from a fit perspective.
Given how situations are, its fair to assume that most firms would be on a hiring freeze until later in the year/ next year, and by then I would have months of fulltime experience, should I stay at my firm for at least a year before considering to lateral?
Thanks for the info in advance!
bump
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