High school celebrity tells his 764,000 followers to boycott Vanguard and BlackRock

eric9242's picture
Rank: Gorilla | banana points 608

Here we have a teen famous for surviving a mass shooting. We have a teen who most likely hasn't completed his high school's algebra course. We have a teen who's followers are among the dumber (lower) half of this nation, making less than 50k a year, and only thing they know about bankers/Wall Street is the notion that they are evil. We have dumbasses who attend community college and fold clothes at the local GAP. We have idiots who don't know a thing about personal finance and saving money, much less investing their money in an emerging market ETF.

It's funny, because half of his followers probably don't (know how to) invest anyways.

Comments (115)

Apr 17, 2018

You might think he and his followers are dumb but clearly BlackRock is listening because they pulled gun manufacturers and retailers out of some of their funds and Citigroup set restrictions on the sale of firearms by its business customers

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Apr 17, 2018

I believe Blackstone is also looking into their funds' gun investments.

Apr 17, 2018

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/05/blackrock-to-offer...
Pulled them out or are making new funds? They're not going to pull them out of the index funds... because well that's not really an index fund if you start cherry picking companies.

These new funds are going to be microscopic in size compared to the index funds that hold all of the "gun related stocks/retailers"

Apr 21, 2018

blah blah blah, and BS to boot.

Any of you who think the CEO of Dick's was so brave because he "stood up to the gun lobby" are just too dim-witted to realize that the same CEO owns Field & Stream, which is the real outdoorsman's go-to place when it comes to procuring guns, ammo and any other real sporting equipment. His benevolence was a sham because all he did was move the guns from Dick's warehouse over the F&S warehouse. He's still selling the same guns he was selling at Dick's.

I actually almost feel sorry for some of you people. I don't know if you've ever been taught critical thinking, the concept of trust but verify, the idea that gathering all of your information from one site may not be the most prudent way to get a thorough understanding of the issues, or if you even care about having a well-rounded, educated understanding of issues. I also am curious as to where and what you think are credible, legitimate new sources.

I've gotten way off topic here, but reading through some of the posts on this thread leaves me shaking my head both because I think it is a tragedy how ill-informed so many are, while at the same time realizing that the education of the masses has been hijacked by a cadre of socialists/communists/and just plain no-nothing people who chose to teach because they couldn't DO. You millennials are certainly changing the world. I would just be curious to see, in 50 years, how many of you zealots will look back on what has happened to this incredible country under your watch. I dare say a great many of you will be dismayed, but I will be worm-food by then.

Be careful for what you wish for as you just might actually get it!

Apr 17, 2018

I'm not taking a side in the argument and I most certainly don't think most executives are actually doing anything for reasons other than corporate image but what I'm saying is there are clearly companies doing something in response to this campaign

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Apr 22, 2018

The guns in this case weren't evn transfered to F&S warehouses, they were never in Dicks warehouses to begin with. Dicks stopped selling AR-15s years ago.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Apr 17, 2018

Do you have a link or screenshot to the tweet?

Apr 17, 2018

Just Google "David Hogg," all the news agencies are going batshit over this tweet

I didn't bother to read any of the articles, the content is pretty easy to discern just from the headlines

Apr 17, 2018

More like David Hoggwash, amirite?!

High-fives group of laughing people shooting me finger-guns

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Apr 17, 2018

What's wrong with making less than 50k a year?

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Apr 17, 2018

Nothing.

But when you bitch about it and shove your shit into other people's faces (instead of actively trying to make more), then something is concerning.

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Apr 17, 2018

You shouldn't care about dumb people until the next elections, let dummies do what dummies do.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Best Response
Apr 17, 2018
kayz08:

What's wrong with making less than 50k a year?

You're not making very much money. Not complicated.

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Apr 17, 2018

Depends what your obligations and spending goals are.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Apr 17, 2018
kayz08:

Depends what your obligations and spending goals are.

Being poor sucks. I am unable to break it down to a more basic level than this.

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Apr 17, 2018

Must be a tough world we live in if making below 50k makes you poor

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Apr 17, 2018
kayz08:

Must be a tough world we live in if making below 50k makes you poor

Do you personally know anyone over age 30 that makes less than $50k who doesn't mow your lawn, pour your drinks, or take care of your kids?

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Apr 17, 2018

Yo mama

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Apr 17, 2018
kayz08:

Yo mama

Really creative non-response. Sounds like you're poor.

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Apr 17, 2018

What do you have against poor people lol

I don't understand people who always complain about poor/stupid people when they have almost no bearing on your life.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Apr 17, 2018
kayz08:

What do you have against poor people lol

I don't understand people who always complain about poor/stupid people when they have almost no bearing on your life.

I recommend Adam Carolla's take on how minimum wage people are ruining your life.

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Apr 17, 2018

For the simple reason that this Adam is going to talk about something I have no control over about people I don't care for, I'll leave it be.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Apr 22, 2018

I would suggest you just stop, it is clear you do not understand how society works.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Apr 17, 2018

And you came to this conclusion because you know everything about me, including the country I came from yeah.

A couple of you finance old heads need to relax with this pretentious know-it-all attitude. I'm trying to be just like you, make money and achieve a couple things. But I also know that other people look at life differently.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

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Apr 22, 2018

No I could easily deduce that from the smattering of comments you have made in this thread.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Apr 20, 2018

Your pretentious and ignorant attitude is what is wrong with the street nowadays.

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Apr 17, 2018
DrRollTide:

Your pretentious and ignorant attitude is what is wrong with the street nowadays.

I can give you pretentious, but not ifnorant.

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Hahahaha

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Apr 20, 2018

+1 SB on the Ace Man

Apr 18, 2018
DickFuld:

Do you personally know anyone over age 30 that makes less than $50k who doesn't mow your lawn, pour your drinks, or take care of your kids?

Several. But to take it out of the level of anecdotal, there are tons of respectable professions where junior level folks make under $50,000. Firefighters and teachers, to name two, have low starting salaries and might only be making near 50,000 by age 30. Median salary in the US for a firefighter is under 50k, according to google. A staff sergeant in the army with 6 years experience makes under 40,000. I'm sure there are plenty of small business owners that make very little but are highly satisfied with their life.

Just because you don't ascribe any social worth to someone making under $50,000/year, doesn't mean that those people aren't engaged in professions which provide real value or are a viable career option.

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Apr 18, 2018

A few actually:

Scientist with the state government specializing in underground water 48,000/yr, this is my dad
Post Doc in theoretical math at NY state university 40,000/yr (ex-bf =P)
Associate Professor in sociology (52,000/yr) and work very long hours

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Apr 18, 2018

Yeah all of those are voluntary positions. They chose those. You have to actively seek out a Post Doc and Assoc. Prof in a non-STEM field. Anyone getting PhDs in a non-STEM field (really anything less than Math/Engineering) and bitch about compensation is an idiot. There isn't a more saturated field(s) than social sciences. LOL

Also Post Doc is cool but definitely a voluntary position. Could take the PhD to a F500 or industry and make at least 80k.

Apr 18, 2018

Post Doc is temporary. Once they get enough publications under their belt, they can apply for AP positions, after x number of years when they finally make tenure, they can take on consulting projects in the summer (age 42-ish).

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Apr 18, 2018

Not what I am arguing. I know what a Post Doc is. You have to dedicate yourself to the field and understand the value of what you're working on. Hopefully these people understand all of this, but it's purely voluntary to take this route.

I know plenty of PhDs going into industry and making bank.

Apr 18, 2018
trustmeimanengineer:

Not what I am arguing. I know what a Post Doc is. You have to dedicate yourself to the field and understand the value of what you're working on. Hopefully these people understand all of this, but it's purely voluntary to take this route.

I know plenty of PhDs going into industry and making bank.

But the original argument implied that anyone making under 50,000/year is an idiot and not contributing economically or socially in a meaningful way. There are plenty of middle class jobs which provide real value; again, most public servants and military professionals aren't making bank, but are still respectable professions, perhaps more so than being an investment banker. And those are "choices" as well. Unless you are extending that same scorn to someone choosing to serve their country in the military, or who want to be a firefighter, or a elementary school teacher, leave the "choice" nonsense out of it. Some people are called to certain professions.

Apr 18, 2018

You shifted your argument from fact-based to morality. I give zero shits if someone is adding to society. The original complaint was about the compensation of those positions.

Apr 22, 2018

The sociologist is significantly overpaid.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Apr 20, 2018
DickFuld:
kayz08:

What's wrong with making less than 50k a year?

You're not making very much money. Not complicated.

do people on this site really hate poor people this much? u need to get out more

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Apr 18, 2018

There's nothing wrong with making less than $50k/year. Several noble professions don't pay particularly well (military comes to mind). My only issue is people who pick professions that don't pay well then complain about it (damn near every teacher on Facebook). They knew what they signed up for.

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Apr 17, 2018

I'm sorry but that kid is a fucking clown.

He just did a Google search or something of investors with the highest gross value of holdings in gun manufacturing companies. Go figure the largest investment management firms have the highest holdings in those companies. Half of their holdings probably come from passive investment funds and indexes anyway, it's not like their just funneling money directly to gun companies. They have a fiduciary duty to their clients and some 15 year old's political agenda shouldn't dictate their positions.

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Apr 17, 2018

yeah exactly lol. I think they are creating a "new fund" without gun holdings but we all know that's just more for political theater than anything. They're not going to drop gun manufacturers from regular indexes (which is where all the $$ is)

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Apr 17, 2018

lmfao emphasis on "We have a teen who's followers are among the dumber (lower) half of this nation"

Fuck this kid. He already lost his Laura Ingraham boycott - rating up 20% since the "boycott" lol

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Apr 17, 2018

In the unlikely event that this boycott is successful, it would just amount to a wealth transfer from people divesting to those who don't care. The companies are worth what they are worth regardless of whether vanguard has them in their index funds. If vanguard divested, people would just get the companies at a reduced price.

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Apr 18, 2018

This is the correct answer

Apr 18, 2018
PeterMBA2018:

In the unlikely event that this boycott is successful, it would just amount to a wealth transfer from people divesting to those who don't care. The companies are worth what they are worth regardless of whether vanguard has them in their index funds. If vanguard divested, people would just get the companies at a reduced price.

Bingo.

Apr 18, 2018

Luckily for Vanguard and Blackrock, their key clients aren't powerless teenagers with $100.

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Apr 18, 2018

I sympathize with this kid (and he is a kid) because of what happen to him, but I feel he's going about it the wrong way, or the easy way.

Buy guns, don't buy guns, ban guns, give them out for free, whatever, these mass murder events at schools won't stop; kids will still find ways to cause destruction that don't necessarily involve guns.

I think it's easy to say the problem is "guns" and the government should ban them. What happens when a kid attacks a school with a lighter and a can of WD40? Should the government ban that. The real problem is that kids/parents treat other kids like shit. Maybe this kid should work toward making schools a more communal place, a more respectable place. I agree though that's way more difficult to do than blaming guns as the problem.

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Apr 18, 2018

As soon as a lighter and a can of WD40 kill 15 kids in 10 minutes, we can have that discussion. Until then, this is more of the same tired deflection from 2A extremists that don't have a good argument against sensible gun reform.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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Apr 18, 2018

Same proposal of "sensible reform" without providing specifics that would have had any impact on the recent tragedies

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Apr 18, 2018

The lighter/WD40 is just an example; point is, there are too many ways for someone to commit a mass murder in a public gathering for the government to outlaw them all.

I'm not saying guns should be legal, or that outlawing them isn't a step in the right direction. However, do you believe that the person who committed this act would not have done so if guns weren't available?

People are going to find ways to keep committing these acts; focusing on their method is easy, actually helping people/making people care about one another is the best way to solve the problem, but also the hardest. I don't know how to make that happen, if I did I would probably try to implement it.

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Apr 18, 2018

No sense in arguing further, as much of the country will not budge from their position on this issue. There are surely a multitude of ways to commit mass murder, yet time and time again, powerful guns are the tool of choice. Just as there are thousands of ways you can kill people when you're drunk, but driving is one of the most common/potent, so now we have drunk driving laws.

The GOP spends much of its campaign and governing time and efforts proposing any and all forms of minor legislature that they believe will curb (but certainly not fully eliminate) illegal immigration and abortion, yet these same people completely throw their hands up and and declare there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop gun violence. It's simply intellectually dishonest.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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Apr 18, 2018
onemanwolfpack:

The GOP spends much of its campaign and governing time and efforts proposing any and all forms of minor legislature that they believe will curb (but certainly not fully eliminate) illegal immigration and abortion, yet these same people completely throw their hands up and and declare there's absolutely nothing we can do to stop gun violence. It's simply intellectually dishonest.

What are you talking about? There are countless gun laws in America. You're talking as if the U.S. is the wild, wild West with regard to gun laws and that the evil, backwards Luddite Republicans are against "reasonable" and "sensible" gun laws. Given that there are about 370 million guns in the U.S., across approximately 100 million gun owners, there are actually remarkably few gun homicides each year. In fact, gun for gun, the U.S. has the least gun homicides in the world, partially due to the "sensible" gun laws we already have.

Apr 20, 2018

The U.S. really is the wild wild West with regard to gun laws compared to the rest of the developed world, where mass shootings are a much less common occurrence.

Apr 18, 2018
BleedingBlue:

The U.S. really is the wild wild West with regard to gun laws compared to the rest of the developed world, where mass shootings are a much less common occurrence.

Mass shootings even in the US are exceedingly rare. This is a case of lies, damn lies and statistics. More people die in slip and falls at pools than in mass shootings. Mass shooting deaths are so rare (~60 per year or so in the US) that relative statistics are essentially meaningless.

Apr 20, 2018

You can always tell the agenda with some people.

Excluding suicide, the majority of gun violence is in inner cities, black on black. We could cut gun violence rates to near Europe levels by simply fixing the systemic issues facing blacks in the city.

But we all know this isn't about gun violence. It is about control. The left uses the media to push for the restriction and removal of fundamental American rights.

Why? Because they are not American. They live in isolated enclaves and basically look down on anyone who isn't educated, well off or that proscribes to their thought and believe process.

Just look at how they describe people who vote against the . The same "unfortunate, hard working Americans" who voted for them in blue collar, Union states, are now racists who can't let go.

There used to be a time where people had different opinions and that was that. Not anymore. This country is divided and acceptance and understanding isn't going to work.

Nose of the camel.

Apr 18, 2018

This is true, yet everybody is trained to use a car, while people are taught to fear guns.

Apr 18, 2018
onemanwolfpack:

As soon as a lighter and a can of WD40 kill 15 kids in 10 minutes, we can have that discussion. Until then, this is more of the same tired deflection from 2A extremists that don't have a good argument against sensible gun reform.

Define "sensible" first.

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.

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Apr 22, 2018

Are you fucking kidding? You can make a bomb out of that easier than you can buy a gun.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Apr 19, 2018
heister:

Are you fucking kidding? You can make a bomb out of that easier than you can buy a gun.

So then why don't people do it more?

Apr 18, 2018
MiserlyGrandpa:
heister:

Are you fucking kidding? You can make a bomb out of that easier than you can buy a gun.

So then why don't people do it more?

Culture. For example, Muslims throw acid in a woman's face and white trash punch a woman.

Apr 20, 2018

A bomb was made for the Boston Marathon bombing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_Uni...
Bunch of bombings.

Apr 19, 2018
TNA:

A bomb was made for the Boston Marathon bombing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_Uni...
Bunch of bombings.

Exactly, that ONE time that everyone references in Boston that killed 5 people. Thanks for proving my point.

As per the rest of the "bombings" referenced on that list you posted, since 2010 there have been 11 "bombings", 8 of which failed to even detonate. Boston is the ONLY one to have any fatalities on that list since 2010, at least up until Austin this year which was only another 3.

Compare that to the number and lethality of shootings and you need to have some serious cognitive dissonance to think people who commit shootings are going to perfectly substitute guns with bombs and have the same lethality while doing so.

Apr 20, 2018

Did you look at the fucking link? Bombs have been used repeatedly. I referenced Boston because it is well know.

Great use of your analytical skills. Also, bombs aren't protected in the Bill of Rights. Absolutely worthless argument on your part.

Apr 19, 2018
TNA:

Did you look at the fucking link? Bombs have been used repeatedly. I referenced Boston because it is well know.

Great use of your analytical skills. Also, bombs aren't protected in the Bill of Rights. Absolutely worthless argument on your part.

The way you so casually tossed the Bill of Rights in there...this entire persona of yours has just been one troll hasn't it?

I love it.

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Apr 20, 2018

So the following has been confirmed.

1) you didn't look at the link

2) you don't actually know what you're talking about

3) this is a discussion about a kid advocating for the restriction and ultimate goal of eliminating a fundamental right of Americans. Therefore, your injection of bombs in the convo is irrelevant and my bringing up they bombs aren't in the BoR is relevant.

And finally, since you have zero leg to stand on, you comment on me being a troll - factually wrong and ultimately irrelevant to the discussion we are having.

Apr 19, 2018
TNA:

So the following has been confirmed.

1) you didn't look at the link

2) you don't actually know what you're talking about

3) this is a discussion about a kid advocating for the restriction and ultimate goal of eliminating a fundamental right of Americans. Therefore, your injection of bombs in the convo is irrelevant and my bringing up they bombs aren't in the BoR is relevant.

And finally, since you have zero leg to stand on, you comment on me being a troll - factually wrong and ultimately irrelevant to the discussion we are having.

Right back at ya...if you actually read my post you'll see I did look at the link, and referenced stats within it.

You'll also see I wasn't the one who first injected homemade bombs into the conversation either.

How do you do it? Keep up the good work.

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Apr 20, 2018

You edited that shit. I saw your post. And while guns are used more often than bombs, bombs are still used. And in countries that ban guns, knives are used.

But this is all irrelevant as bombs are not Constitutionally protected. Guns are. And a child advocating for the restrictions of freedom and being listened to is shocking.

Apr 19, 2018
TNA:

You edited that shit. I saw your post.

I didn't edit it, you just weren't paying attention. Otherwise what numbers were you possibly referring to by complimenting my "analytical skills"?

As per the rest, I've said all I want to say in other posts, and others here have made solid cases about this "oh but knives and bombs" debacle. But keep up the efforts, I'll be enjoying as a spectator with a bowl of popcorn.

Peace & Love

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Apr 22, 2018

Edit or not, the point is you do not even grasp the context in which this entire discussion is taking place in.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Apr 18, 2018

So, Blackrock created a new ESG-focused Index and a series of ETFs that prohibit investments in gun companies. They won't change anything from their existing funds, but this is a way for pension funds who want to be more ESG focused to have exposure without including firearms in their portfolio. This won't change anything in the Blackrock family of funds that replicates the index 1:1 (it can't because index replication is exactly that for equities). If they do that for optimized or sampled portfolios, that would be fair game. Blackrock did what amounts to nothing to gain a great deal of favor by doing what they did.

As far as David Hogg is concerned, he is actively trying to bully people into submission. Look at the Laura Ingraham debacle. Companies have started to come back in and advertise. Not only that, her ratings are up since coming back on the air. At the same time, he's using a platform to push his agenda and demands that no one take pot shots at him despite now being a public figure. Now that he is in the public spotlight, he has opened himself up to these attacks yet wants his cake in the form of gun control and the ability to eat it to in the form of not being mocked by others. It is hard to take anyone seriously when they try to hide behind their cause or method of victimization in order to shield themselves from criticism.

Apr 18, 2018

Witnessing something traumatic doesn't make you an expert. These kids are pawns being trotted out to promote a political agenda. They don't care about school safety, they care about the political agenda. Honestly, it makes me sick.

Apr 18, 2018
eric9242:

Here we have a teen famous for surviving a mass shooting. We have a teen who most likely hasn't completed his high school's algebra course. We have a teen who's followers are among the dumber (lower) half of this nation, making less than 50k a year, and only thing they know about bankers/Wall Street is the notion that they are evil. We have dumbasses who attend community college and fold clothes at the local GAP. We have idiots who don't know a thing about personal finance and saving money, much less investing their money in an emerging market ETF.

It's funny, because half of his followers probably don't (know how to) invest anyways.

I really couldn't care less about his age or his level of education. My issue with him is that he's wrong on policy and he and his allies have acted in a grotesquely immoral fashion the last 2 months by blaming innocent people--Republicans, the NRA-- for a shooting that was the fault of the 1) shooter; 2) Obama administration public policy; 3) school itself; 4) Sheriff's Department; 5) FBI.

To ignore #s 1-5 and then to place blame on Marco Rubio(??) and the NRA is to suggest that you have a political motivation rather than moral motivation to stop mass shootings.

Apr 19, 2018

Marco Rubio had balls being at that town hall as well.

Apr 20, 2018

America - 2018.

Listening to someone who hasn't graduated high school on anything other than making ice cream.

Also notice how this is all about gun control. Zero discussion on the myriad of failures that allowed this to happen.

We might as well scrap the entire constitution. I don't see much left of this country anyway. Who really cares.

Apr 19, 2018

lol really? A high school kid says stupid shit on twitter, and your reaction is to "scrap the entire constitution"?

You're being more melodramatic than a teenage girl. Go grow some hair on your balls, or at least eat a decent meal and get a good nights sleep, you overworked sonofabitch.

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Apr 22, 2018

That comment you clearly took out of context is an analysis on decades of having freedoms removed in this country for nothing more than the appearance of "security". More specifically it is called security theater because in reality that is exactly what it is. The appearance of something to make idiots feel safe. The 2nd is pretty much the only thing left in the constitution that holds this country together. I'm always amazed at who tends to support the striping of rights, as it is usually those who most complain that they do not have equal rights.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Apr 20, 2018

Intelligent comments on this site is like adding chicken soup to a toilet bowl.

Apr 20, 2018

Jesus are you dense.

This kids holding rallies. He's on CNN. He's advocating for serious gun restrictions. And he's pushing an agenda that others are using him for.

If you're not seeing the eroding level of basic freedom in this country, perpetuated by the media, wealthy individuals and power hungry bureaucrats, then you simply aren't paying attention.

But yeah, a kid "tweeting" is all in upset about.

Apr 21, 2018

Re: those failures - how in the hell did we let the FBI off the hook for this one? Why aren't we talking about that instead?

Apr 20, 2018

We need more laws!! Who cares about holding law enforcement accountable when they don't enforce them.

Listen, I'd respect liberals if they were just honest. They hate what this country was built on and will use dead children to advance their fascist goals. Because that's exactly what is happening.

And the FBI gets a pass because they are fighting Trump. Remember when Comey fucked Hillary? Dems wanted FBI blood. How quickly they turn.

Go watch the YouTube videos of the former KGB guy who worked to install communism in Pakistan and elsewhere. He loved these "educated" idiots. They were the first to be culled when their dream was realized. Fools trying to dismantle freedom.

Apr 18, 2018

Just to add, 60 days(!) after the shooting, Hogg and his sister have written a book that they will no doubt profit handsomely from. They claim that they will give the profits to continue the fight for gun control, but that could be anything from donating to Democrat politicians to paying themselves a salary to go around the country leading rallies while staying at luxury hotels. We have no idea. But just like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have enriched themselves off of racial agitation, it looks like a new profitable industry is a-brewin'--gun control advocacy.

In our increasingly irreligious time, the non-religious are desperately searching for spiritual meaning, and they'll get it off of political advocacy, and Hogg will be their pastor.

Apr 18, 2018

And how is that wrong? Either profit is okay or it isn't. Nor is their message any less valid because they can profit off of it.

Gun control is open to interpretation like anything else. The conservative right has waged a long, costly, and perfectly legal campaign to change the way the Second Amendment is interpreted in both State and federal court systems. And now it's a point of principle that we as a society cannot reinterpret that? Or that the left doesn't have the same right to campaign for a reinterpretation?

The idea that the desire or intention to institute gun control legislation is a sign of the decrepitude of the Constitution is absurd on it's face, and displays a complete lack of knowledge of the history of Constitutional law. It's within living memory that conservatives were saying that allowing integrated schools would be the death of American society, too. Good company to be in.

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Apr 18, 2018
Ozymandia:

And how is that wrong? Either profit is okay or it isn't. Nor is their message any less valid because they can profit off of it.

Profit is neither right nor wrong. It just seems bizarre to me that 60 days after the shooting at their school they have released a book to the public. As I already pointed out, Hogg's hyper-partisanship calls into question his motivations about his principles surrounding gun control; and now this book calls into question his real moral purpose. At the very least, this move looks like a way to profit off of the tragedy.

Ozymandia:

Gun control is open to interpretation like anything else. The conservative right has waged a long, costly, and perfectly legal campaign to change the way the Second Amendment is interpreted in both State and federal court systems. And now it's a point of principle that we as a society cannot reinterpret that? Or that the left doesn't have the same right to campaign for a reinterpretation?

Cathy Newman, is that you? Where did I say the left doesn't have the right to campaign for their immoral and wrong belief systems? I said that as people become less religious they start looking for other ways to fill their spiritual needs. Now instead of giving to a sleazy TV preacher, they will give money to a sleazy gun control advocate who is out for his own personal glory and money.

Ozymandia:

The idea that the desire or intention to institute gun control legislation is a sign of the decrepitude of the Constitution is absurd on it's face, and displays a complete lack of knowledge of the history of Constitutional law. It's within living memory that conservatives were saying that allowing integrated schools would be the death of American society, too. Good company to be in.

What the absolute fuck are you talking about? How in God's name are you getting this out of what I said about David Hogg? Jfk.

Apr 18, 2018

Ah I am sorry, I was responding to you because it was the last post in the chain, but the second and third paragraphs you quote were directed more at the sentiment expressed by TNA upchain. Did not mean to imply those were your beliefs.

Apr 20, 2018

You're myopic if you think "common sense" gun control means anything other than an eventual outright ban. This moron is just pedaling this trash because he profits and doesn't know anything.

Fuck that kid and fuck anyone who works to fundamentally restrict the rights of American Citizens.

Apr 20, 2018

Americans are profiting off an effort to weaken and destroy a fundamental right of the US Constitution.

When someone attacks the constitution, their role is clear. Enemy of the Republican. If I was advocating for the elimination of free speech or allowing police to search you without a warrant, you'd called me a fascist (aka an enemy of freedom and what this country stands for). This little pig might as well be a KGB agent.

He is being propped up and financed by much more powerful entities.

You ever ask why he's the face of the shooting and not the other kids who were injured or survived? How his message is the only one on all the major networks?

Yeah.

Apr 17, 2018
TNA:

When someone attacks the constitution, their role is clear. Enemy of the Republican.

I'm not sure if saying "Republican" was a Freudian slip when you meant the republic, or if you really meant enemy of the Republican. Clearly, gun control advocates are enemies of Republicans based on how they are demonized by Republicans incessantly.

What he is doing is not attacking the Constitution though. He is exercising his First Amendment right to express his opinion. Even if he were advocating for the repeal of the Second Amendment, that would not be attacking the Constitution. In the Constitution, we have a process for changing it. What you are doing is simply characterizing what he is doing in a false light and attacking his character.

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Apr 20, 2018

Freedom is speech to advocate for the restriction and eventual removal of a Constitutional right.

Seditious little slob being fed lines by anti-American organization.

Edit - the Founding Fathers provided a mechanism to change the Constitution, correct. Hence why slavery was repealed. Hence why prohibition was added and removed.

A mechanism for change doesn't mean repealing the Bill of Rights, the founding bedrock of this country.

And I'm sorry, this person is a child. His opinions are worthless. And a child advocating for the restrictions of a fundamental right just shows how horrible the virus of liberalism is.

Apr 18, 2018
TNA:

Edit - the Founding Fathers provided a mechanism to change the Constitution, correct. Hence why slavery was repealed. Hence why prohibition was added and removed.

Slavery wasn't removed from the Constitution, it was amended. There's a difference, even if you don't see it.

TNA:

Freedom is speech to advocate for the restriction and eventual removal of a Constitutional right.

What you don't seem to understand is that the way the Second Amendment has been interpreted over the years has changed dramatically. What you consider to be "your Second Amendment rights" would have been unrecognizable to a court 100 years ago. The language is pretty clear; the right to bear arms is protected in the context of a citizen militia. You going out an buying a semi-automatic rifle does not fall under that definition. The NRA and it's supporters have waged a long and perfectly legal campaign to change the way the Second Amendment is interpreted, and now that they have gotten where they want to be, they have turned their interpretation into gospel.

I merely point this out because you very clearly don't understand the judicial history behind where we stand on gun rights. Someone advocating to change the way we interpret our Second Amendment rights is not "attacking" the Constitution any more than the NRA was. Mind you, that position (that anyone trying to change the status quo is attacking some fundamental piece of Americana) is a pretty tired one - it's what slavers from the antebellum South argued, it's what their successors in Jim Crow Dixie argued, it's what people argued when they tried to keep the Irish out in the 1800's, it's what people said when they tried to deny people of different sexual orientations their full rights as citizens.

Almost any time someone says that an opinion is "anti-American", they are defending a position which they cannot defend through reason. Which is why it's an appeal to a tradition with no real foundation other than vague nostalgia

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Apr 20, 2018

Wall is words.

Simple fact is the founding fathers wanted Americans to have he right to bear arms. Rifles, pistols, etc. This kid wants to remove and restrict that. That's anti american.

Apr 18, 2018
TNA:

Wall is words.

Simple fact is the founding fathers wanted Americans to have he right to bear arms. Rifles, pistols, etc. This kid wants to remove and restrict that. That's anti american.

So you'd be perfectly happy with unrestricted rights to buy guns, and no sales of ammunition, ever, to anyone? This is how absurd it is for any originalist argument, like you're trying to make. The Second Amendment guarantees a right to bear arms in the context of a citizen militia, which most NRA enthusiasts conveniently forget. Nor does it mention anything a right to buy ammunition. A firearm is very distinct from the ammunition it propels (hence why we have distinct and well-established terms for it).

And whatever this kid wants, you cannot pretend that he speaks for most gun-control advocates. You know what would be a great start to the Second Amendment debate? Allowing the CDC to study gun violence. We do it for automobiles, and there is no reason to ban them from doing so for firearms. I think the reason the GOP has consistently blocked or banned it from happening is obvious; any study of gun violence in this country would show incontrovertible evidence that there are ways to lessen injuries and fatalities from gun violence through easy and non-restrictive legislation.

Apr 21, 2018

"What you don't seem to understand is that the way the Second Amendment has been interpreted over the years has changed dramatically. "

I'd say the anti-gun groups are doing the changing - is it really that crazy to suggest that the Founders intended a more timeless interpretation of the Constitution, one that does provide a right today, well supported by the Supreme Court?

Or perhaps they knew MSNBC and British people would set the rubes straight.

Apr 18, 2018
Scott Irish:

"What you don't seem to understand is that the way the Second Amendment has been interpreted over the years has changed dramatically. "

I'd say the anti-gun groups are doing the changing - is it really that crazy to suggest that the Founders intended a more timeless interpretation of the Constitution, one that does provide a right today, well supported by the Supreme Court?

Or perhaps they knew MSNBC and British people would set the rubes straight.

Look, you don't have a grasp of Constitutional or judicial history. That's fine. But please don't act like the things you've been told by the head on the television are fact.

First off, the Second Amendment is quite explicit in that it guarantees a right to be arms in the context of a citizen militia. That has been changed, over the years, to be an absolute right to bear arms and any related paraphernalia, effectively without supervision from the government. After all, nothing says that you have a right to buy ammunition, right? That is what we called a contextual interpretation. So any time some mook comes at you with an argument for Originalism, laugh in his or her face.

Second, and this goes to a mental illness among conservatives - the way the American judicial system interprets anything changes over time. Precedent law evolves, new cases come up, social mores change (e.g. slavery or Jim Crow). Liberals in this country accept this fact; conservatives wait for the interpretation they want and then declare it sacrosanct. On the Second, they have what they want, so of course the Founders and the modern courts agree entirely and thus we can't change a thing. On the Fourth, not so much - so of course it needs to be changed.

As with everything else, it's just a matter of hypocrisy from the right. Conservative values aren't any less valid than those held by liberals, they just tend to not be universally applied. Hence why most GOP voters aren't against government expansion, but merely government expansion for ethnic minorities. The welfare state is bad, but not when it's for farm subsidies or services used disproportionately by whites. Etc, etc, etc...

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Apr 20, 2018

Lol.

"You don't understand "

"Ethnic minorities "

So you claim expertise and accuse a group of racism. Shit argument as expected.

The second amendment has been well studied. Original language of the drafts of the bill of rights, discussions and writings of those who drafted it, etc. Civilian gun ownership was seen as a check on a totalitarian government run amuck.

Pistols, rifles and shotguns should not be restricted. Same with ammo. I'd almost allow felons who are released from jail to own weapons as their debt is paid by time served.

Restriction on full auto guns are whatever. Stupid, easily worked around.

You are the one who frankly doesn't understand the constitution or history. Furthermore, civilian gun ownership has been clearly ruled on by the SCOTUS. I'll put their interpretation over yours.

Apr 18, 2018

I mean, the Communist Party USA and the KKK also use their First Amendment right when advocating for the dissolution of all freedom and private property in the United States; that doesn't mean the Communist Party or KKK's use of the First Amendment is edifying to the ideals of the Constitution.

Apr 20, 2018

Please direct me to anywhere in the Constitution where segregated was allowed, promoted or law?

Love when I'm acused if not knowing something and the ultimate turd strawman is levied.

Sad state of the education system if this is what they are producing.

Apr 19, 2018

Earning less than 50,000 a year is bad? that is offensive

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Apr 19, 2018

This kids a power hungry sociopath that destroys shit for fun. I predict a he'll eventually develop a terrible coke habit.

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Apr 19, 2018

This kid basically just told 80% of America to boycott using 401ks

Apr 20, 2018

I actually don't agree with this kid. Due to the far right radicalism of the average Republican voter now I really think people center and leftwards should arm themselves. Average Republican voters occupy a plane of existence so far removed from reality that they can basically be set off at any time due to whatever the latest Clinton chemtrail conspiracy theory is being peddled on Breitbart. I support gun ownership. To protect ourselves from these damn people.

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Apr 18, 2018

This x 1000. I know all you College Republicans don't realize it yet in your Reagan/Bush 84 T-shirt-wearing bubble, but the GOP has moved far right with all the Obama/Hillary hysteria, propelled by the fear-based propaganda of Fox News. I can't think of a single person in my day-to-day life whom I respect intellectually that holds the GOP/Trump in high esteem.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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Apr 19, 2018

Yeah the Republicans have "moved to the far right" with the election of Donald Trump. The president that:

  • Offered to naturalize 2M+ illegal immigrants;
  • passed a $1.3 trillion dollar budget with giveaways to Democrats everywhere;
  • Offered to bail out Obamacare and believes in universal, government mandated health insurance;
  • Believes in stricter gun control (ban bump stocks and increase legal age to 21);
  • Supports economic protectionism (in favor of government managed trade).

Yeah man, the right wing has really gone off the deep end. Talk about living in a fucking bubble. Anyone right of Bill Maher is probably a "right winger" in your view.

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Apr 20, 2018

Couldn't have said it any better. Trump is a lifelong Democrat and won the election because Democrats decided to throw away their historic second base, white, rural, union members. Hence why Trump pulled PA (which was blue for the last 2-3 elections), Michigan, West Virginia, Wisconsin, etc.

Trump derangement syndrome is truly alive and well.

Apr 18, 2018

Or, Trump won because the middle of the country was mad a black guy was President for 8 years, and the Republicans were the only ones willing to debase their party and answer to that dog whistle. No need to overcomplicate it.

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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Apr 19, 2018

Solid response.

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Apr 20, 2018

lol what a fucking joke.

White people angry at a black president lol. The same angry white people in union country who gave him PA, Michigan , WV, etc.

The economy hasn't recovered for most people. Democrats have moved far left. Trump was a populist who stole votes from Dems and retained most Republican votes.

Keep huffing and puffing. Like a Victorian woman about to faint.

Apr 20, 2018
onemanwolfpack:

Or, Trump won because the middle of the country was mad a black guy was President for 8 years, and the Republicans were the only ones willing to debase their party and answer to that dog whistle. No need to overcomplicate it.

I know this is a troll post, but I'm taking the bait anyway for some reason...

  • Obama won Ohio in 2008 AND 2012.
  • Obama won Iowa in 2008 AND 2012.
  • Obama won Wisconsin in 2008 AND 2012 (Trump won by <1%)
  • Obama won Michigan in 2008 AND 2012 (Trump won by <1%)
  • Obama won Pennsylvannia in 2008 AND 2012 (Trump won by <1%)
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Apr 18, 2018

+1. But it actually isn't a troll post, which is the sad and pathetic thing.

Apr 20, 2018

Facts frighten the hysteric. Be careful.

Dems would really benefit from not calling their historic base racist all the time. But it seems that the "moderate" Democratic Party wants to only cater to transvesties, illegal immigrants, minorities and overweight SJWs.

Apr 18, 2018

You're right, I must have imagined the moderates Flake, Heller, Kasich, and McCain getting vilified and pushed out of the party, pedophile Roy Moore beating Strange for the failed Alabama GOP Senate candidacy, and the freaking 2012 GOP Presidential Nominee Mitt Romney losing his GOP convention for the Utah Senate GOP nomination yesterday.

Ya know, I think I'm finished with this website. Nothing but the same old whiny recruiting threads, punctuated by a weekly anti-liberal rant and any dissenting opinion shouted down by the same five hard-right ultra users. I've deleted my old content and have no interest in contributing to this echo chamber. Take care @WallStreetOasis.com @AndyLouis

when you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

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