How do AM Firms with mutual funds work?

I have an upcoming interview with a large AM firm that also has mutual funds (something like Wellington). This firm has many large, institutional clients. 

  1. Is all the money in the firm's mutual funds also counted toward the firm's AUM? For example, if a firm has $100B in AUM, can that include $60B in mutual funds?

  2. If so, where does the other $40B go? Are those customized portfolio's for institutional clients?

  3. Let's say an institutional clients gives $10B to this AM firm. Can the firm just put all the money in its own mutual funds? Does that happen/is it common?

Thanks for the help!

 

In short:

1. Yes it is counted, they manage the mutual funds as they do with institutional mandates (often the institutional mandates are just a slightly customised version of a publicly available mutual fund, e.g. with a cap on volatility, extra leverage, or some other customisation)

2. Yes

3. The client will determine how they want it set up. Almost always it makes sense for the client to request a separate mandate as they can negotiate the fees lower than the publicly available mutual fund.

 
Most Helpful

In general - there are a few broad categories of assets under management. Largely break down like this. 

- Retail vs. Institutional - these are the two categories. Retail is exactly what you think it is, assets for individuals, etc. Institutional includes things like pension plans, endowments, insurance companies, etc. From a top down level, they have to categorize and differentiate for reporting to the SEC, so you can relatively simply see the split. 

- Vehicle Type.. generally: Separate accounts vs. commingled funds (CIT's, Mutual funds, etc.). You'll see this generally as an 'option' for how you can invest with them. You can pick a mutual fund they have and simply add money to that strategy, maybe you are big enough and can open up a separately managed account, etc. You might have the same strategy offered in a variety of different vehicles - all for a variety of reasons, many of which have to do with investment policies, types of assets, preferences, etc. 

- Strategy type - bringing it all together, you may have a manager who runs a Core fixed income strategy, for institutional investors, that's available as a separate account or commingled fund (note: i'm just using this as a blanket term to differentiate for illustrative purposes here). 

In most cases, following along on the above, you'll see a mix of these within a firm. To your third question - generally, it works more like: $10b client puts out a mandate search for a given strategy - firm, maybe wellington, will bid on that strategy (either RFP or through a consultant... sometimes both, which sucks). Then you will get, say, a $300m allocation from that $10b to a given strategy. You might use a mutual fund, you might use an SMA - but regardless, I'd focus more on that level than what literal vehicle they place clients in. 

More than you wanted - but that's how I would start to parse out an AM firm and what they do. Then you should consider who their client base is (pull up their ADV - quick, easy) and that will help you track back to a lot of other things. How they may manage assets, what they do, etc. 

I'd make one other note - there is a bit of contention over the 'put it in your own funds' especially if you have a large client who you manage an entire portfolio for. If you look at things like an OCIO model (where you advise on an entire, or potion sometimes of a porftolio - and allocate it to various managers, strategies, etc. for the client) you'll have differing opinions. Some like Vanguard may place the passive portions in their funds - logical... cheapest out there for that stuff - and then for 'actively' managed strategies, they may use their own funds but they are sub-advised (i.e. it's a vanguard mutual fund - but wellington manages it for them)... in theory, removing the conflict of interest of putting your client in your own funds. I'm vastly off your topic - or your questions - but those are some other considerations that start to come up as you go down the rabbit hole. 

 

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