Trending Content
Career Resources
WSO Free Modeling Series - Now Open Through
April 30, 2024
9 Free Financial Modeling Lessons
Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling.
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
+Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file
try going to Las Vegas and be a dealer first, then you are a shoo-in, or read about the students that got in trouble for counting cards. Otherwise, apply for one of the quant jobs.
It's an MsF from MIT, not engineering. Quant isn't applicable here, unless the OP has an undergrad degree in engineering or math.
Well, I am double major in Finance and Accounting, Minor in Maths.. I really wanna do the MSF program at MIT, but Ill probably have to give up a FT opportunity at my BB.. the program would cost me 90k so the opportunity cost is real high.. just wondering if its worth it and what are my chances to get into IBD upon finishing the program.
OH yeah thanks unqwertyfled, im not interested in quant and thats why I chose MSF not MFE.. however MIT requires strong quantitative skills anyways coz its MIT..so i have a minor in maths.
Much easier to get into sales and trading from MIT MSF- or investment management- than it is to get into IBD.
If you were to do an MBA from MIT- or better yet, Chicago, Harvard, Stanford, or Penn- getting into IBD would be a breeeeze.
What's so bad about sales and trading? Roughly the same money, less work, similar three-year job stability (for analysts); easy decision. If you STILL want to do I-Banking after that, Harvard would be a pushover.
I actually have a strong passion for S&T.. a lot more fun to me and less stressful compare to IBD... ahh..peer pressure and hypes man.. Im from Zimbabwe and a lot of my friends from Zim and Zambia got into IBD.. and for some reason everyone just praises it... Us kids from Africa sometimes get real competitive lol...
Like you suggested, I might as well go for S&T since thats what I like.. eventually might get into IBD after MBA... I don't mind doing both MIT MSF and MBA anyways.
Based on your last post, I really don't think you will be succesful in trading. Whilst no doubt you are better positioned for an S&T role, prehaps you should go for IBD after all.
LLcoolJ, thanks for your comments. BTW could you pliz further illustrate your post? Im just wondering what would be blocking me from being successful in trading.
If you just want to earn the big bucks and tell people you're in investment banking, M&A is the way to go. In fact, some would argue that fitting in, listening to dumb shit your friends say and following the hype are actually advantageous traits for a banker.
I don't think you really appreciate how real the risk of failing is when it comes to trading.
Thanks for your comments~
trading is less stressful for me then M&A because I enjoy it. (Its like people who enjoy maths don't really stress about it)
True, I am nothing special, just like most people. but I don't see how that will affect my performance in trading.
MY FRIENDS ARE NOT DUMB, STOP BEEN RUDE, WE CAME A LONG WAY FROM A SMALL TOWN IN AFRICA TO THE BIG BANKS AT WALL STREET. (its offensive)
Again, susceptible to peer pressure because we are competitive, and that's what shaped who we are today. I believe those pressure is an important external source of motivation; people should appreciate it IMO
When market fails, unemployment rate goes up, everyone stresses, doesnt matter where you work.
Lastly, You Don't Know Me Or My Friends. How could you judge people when you know nothing about them. Best arguments are backed up with fact; i.e. your argument aren't convincing at all.
Still, I thank you for your suggestions, but I would appreciate more if you can stop being defensive.
Thanks for your comments~
trading is less stressful compares to M&A because I enjoy it. (Its like people who enjoy maths don't really stress about it)
True, I am nothing special, and I would love to have a job that raises my social status. but I don't see how that will affect my performance in trading.
MY FRIENDS ARE NOT DUMB, STOP BEEN RUDE, WE CAME A LONG WAY FROM A SMALL TOWN IN AFRICA TO THE BIG BANKS AT WALL STREET. (wat you said is offensive)
Again, susceptible to peer pressure because we are competitive, and that's what shaped who we are today. I believe those pressure is an important internal source of motivation; people should appreciate it IMO
When market fails, unemployment rate goes up, everyone stresses, doesnt matter where you work.
Lastly, You Don't Know Me Or My Friends. How could you judge people when you know nothing about them. Best arguments are backed up with facts; your argument just aren't convincing at all.
Still, I thank you for your suggestions, but I would appreciate more if you can stop being offensive.
hilarious
I'm pretty sure he didn't mean your friends in particular are dumb but rather saying you need to be in ibd over s&t despite your interests/offer is dumb (not in reference to your country..)
As a matter of fact, he is suggesting me to do IBD despite my interest in S&T, not the other way round.
I was a lil overreacted coz I felt offended.
“I really don't think you will be succesful in trading” “listening to dumb shit your friends say”
I don’t mind people expressing their opinions, but those sentences add no value to the argument apart from being plain offensive.
Seems like you are already set on S&T, so you should certainly pursue it if you know that's what you want and there's no need for this thread in the first place. I respect the challenges you had to overcome coming from Africa, yet IBD seems to require stronger communication skills and a greater tolerance for offense. S&T might suit your competitiveness more.
May I ask what is your FT role going to be? Your profile says you go to a top50 school in Miami, so getting a Masters from MIT will definitely improve your S&T recruiting opportunities. I'm also assuming you have no immigration issues to deal with since you will be passing on a job offer for merely a chance of getting another. The DV lottery must be good.
You are right. English is actually my third language; fortunately it hasnt gotten into my way yet. I'm sure I'll get better over time.
Certainly, there's a tremendous opportunity cost in doing the MIT MSF. Not only the program will cost me 100k, I also have to give up my first year salary which would be around 80K (after bonus before tax). Plus like you said, I'll miss the opportunity to change my F-1 student visa to a work visa status.
For the purposes of planning my SPENDING, I use pessimistic assumptions like those, but when it comes to OPPORTUNITY cost, I try to come up with a genuine average-case scenario. Check Dealbreaker for a better idea of total comp.
If you are thinking of going back to college, I would recommend working for two years, saving pre-tax money in your employer's 401K plan in shorter term investments (cash, inflation-adjusted bonds), and withdrawing the money penalty free at a lower tax rate to pay for school. Over the course of two years, you can shift $31K in earnings from an effective 35-40% tax rate to something closer to an average of 15%. That's an after-tax savings of $7K; enough to pay a year's worth of rent at school for simply moving your income from a high-income year to a year where you'll be a college student and be earning less.
I am not sure if you are subject to income tax in your home country; you might want to sit down with an accountant before using this strategy, but I'm pretty sure you can save a lot of money.
2 observations: 1.) Grow a pair: Can't let competition and peer pressure make decisions for you. If you want s&t, do s&t and not IBD. I, for example, come from a family of phds and was under pressure to continue for a phd myself. I really wanted to try out finance and work in a more dynamic setting, so decided to go for it. 2.) Need to be more thick skinned: Can't take offense this easily dude. If there ever is a flare up on the trading floor, you can't let it get to you and affect your performance.
I agree with you. Thanks for the advice, my greatest weakness is my competitive personality and thats what makes me a "soft skin person".. Sometimes I feel like the purpose of life is to be better than others so I just naturally fall into competition/arguments when someone undermines my capabilities. I understand I have to fix this issue in order to be more successful in my career, and I am trying my best to be more tolerate.
Though you say you'd like S&T, your original post was asking how to get into IBD.
Whatever you decide to apply for, you better be far more convincing that it means something to you.
I am going to work in sales this summer at a BB in NY. I was wondering if I can exit to IBD after the graduate program since I will have to trade off my FT offer (if I get it after the summer)
Thanks for the advice. I get foreign income tax deduction at my home country. Plus I'm not even sure if there are still people working for the Zimbabwean government to collect taxes.. anyway..I am definitely going back to school after a few years of work experience..But I wanna go back for the MBA not MSF..
I have a few qualifications that I wanna achieve, MSF at MIT, MBA at Harvard, CPA nad CFA. I know these are all ideal, but Im about to complete the 150 hours for the CPA exam, also studying for the level 1 CFA exam.. if I get into MIT, and a job at wall street, it would be easier for me to get into Harvard and do MBA. So it sort of leads one to another...
Im still young so education is my priority..once I get all the qualifications, I wouldn't have to worry about the rest of my life.
I certainly appreciate your advice on tax credits, its definately a consideration.
Out curiosity, what's your ultimate goal? What on earth could possibly require an MIT MsF, HBS MBA, CPA and CFA!?!?
parterning with PE/HF is a process of reaching my Ultimate goal~ which is to make a LOT of money and expand my family business all over the world, make it famous, prestigious and list it on NYSE, NASDAQ, LSE, Tokyo SE... I wanna leave a foot print in this world before I die. Thats my goal of life~
In two or three years, you'll have a very different perspective on your goals (My goal upon graduating school was to start the first Chicago-based bulge bracket investment bank before I hit 50). When I stop to think about what really matters in life, it's three things:
IlliniProgrammer, I always like to read your posts; very insightful.
My Ultimate goal is the goal of my family; my parents are spending over $60000 cash per year for me to study in the US, no loan no scholarship or grants. That number is equivalent to 300 years of salary for a average Zimbabwean employee. My dad started doing business 20 years ago from scratch, and now we are one of the richest family in Zimbabwe.
That inspiration consistently pushes me, and my ultimate goal will not change since thats what my parent and I always wanted. It would be a huge disrespect in my culture to betray my loved ones.
I agree with you, the goal of life is always composed of big and small daily achievement; therefore those insignificant ones are certainly important.
When I was 22, I figured that if my Dad could make it from a farm in Wisconsin in the US to the richest 5% of families, I could make it from the upper middle class to the wealthy. But ultimately, you've gotta figure out what life's really all about. If I try to answer that question, I will set off a huge debate, but I'll say that most people can agree that it's not about money or prestige. My Dad went a certain way because life was largely about a certain religion (which meant a certain work and savings ethic) and taking care of your family. Your parents also probably went the way they did because of something bigger than money and ambition.
You've ultimately got to become convinced of what gives life its meaning and then base your life around that. Otherwise, achievement for the sake of achievement will leave you feeling pretty empty and burnt-out by the time you hit 25.
IlliniProgrammer: I am a hang glider pilot (H-2 rating). If you are in Chicago, there are a couple of aerotow schools where you can learn hang gliding or just go for a tandem with an instructor. It is an awesome experience.
The good news (or bad news) is that Ellenville can do foot launches- I'm guessing that would be harder in Chicago and maybe all but a handful of places between Columbus and Omaha.
I think your follow-up posts really do prove that trading isn't for you.
Having a point to prove isn't a bad thing, but too me it seems like your 'ultimate goal' is just to be able to tell others about what a big dick you have. Furthermore, I think your 'competitive' personalty is a result of insecurity, not a thirst for excellence. Success in trading requires immense composure - you need to be solid as a rock. The reactive nature of your posts suggest to me that you don't have the emotional balance required for success in trading.
The reason I'm saying this isn't to offend you. I'm saying this because I don't think your personality is a good fit for trading - successful traders are in it for the game, not for the prestige or the money - and it would be a pity if all your hard work went to waste.
Again, you are judging people based on your perception. I am not gonna argue about this anymore, maybe its the culture.
When people say I won't be good at something, I always prove to be better than them in such things, no matter its because of insecurity or eager for success; dont care, The End Justifies The Mean.
Thanks for your comments. But I don't think you are old enough, experienced enough or simply know me enough to persuade my choices.
In addition, since my interviewers think Im a good fit in sales, I don't see why I shouldn't trust them.
Nobody is saying you're not cut out for trading- we're just saying that there need to be some adjustments. A certain degree of humility, IMHO, is a sign of confidence in many ways- it shows that you know that despite everything you might have learned already, you think you have the ability to become even better than you are now.
Sales is great, but I would argue it requires a different skillset than trading- you probably won't need the same kind of composure in really tough situations that traders require, but you'll need exceptional interpersonal skills. Sales at a bank is arguably the pinnacle of sales as a profession. I'd imagine that most of your clients will be Westerners if you are working in NYC, and they will probably value a lack of overconfidence. I would recommend not discussing your real ambitions and instead talking about how you want to become a good sales guy and make help your firm take better care of your clients than the other guys.I'm not telling you all of this to shoot you down or scare you away- just telling you this so you know what to work on when you show up this summer.
Ex illum tempore veritatis quam id. Expedita pariatur qui ipsum reiciendis sed debitis. Aut omnis natus dolor distinctio velit mollitia.
Doloribus consequatur labore sed quia sunt aut. Nulla voluptatem atque eum sed vitae cum. Et aut voluptate voluptatem minus.
Blanditiis laborum est molestiae. Maxime sed molestiae animi nam. Repellat assumenda repellat quae natus cumque saepe aut.
Non voluptatem provident aut eligendi sunt quis eius dolores. Sint occaecati pariatur optio architecto ex. Nisi tempore ut et consectetur. Id rem at incidunt commodi qui ducimus.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Et inventore reprehenderit esse neque. Et ducimus consequatur impedit nihil blanditiis esse voluptatem. Rerum officiis veniam consequatur blanditiis eos beatae quidem.
Et dicta error sit. Et cum officiis quis sint modi. Et provident incidunt commodi nostrum. Ipsum fugiat deleniti quis voluptatem blanditiis similique. Quibusdam a accusamus quisquam ut. Alias fugit doloribus voluptatem ut iste accusamus magni.
Eos impedit perferendis ducimus cumque pariatur est accusamus. Perferendis eligendi et dolores rerum. Molestias vel eligendi exercitationem corporis expedita error. Odio et minus ex.