How has MeToo changed your willingness to mentor female team members?

m_1's picture
m_1 - Certified Professional
Rank: Neanderthal | banana points 2,604

Just curious if it's changed anything for anyone else?

Not going to lie, it's made me very paranoid, I don't meet anyone (male or female) at all unless it's in a public place and I had cameras installed with audio at our main office.

I talked to a few executives at larger companies about this and some outright refuse to meet 1 on 1 privately with woman, which I think is really bad. Kind of sad the whole thing has created some serious glass ceilings for woman.

What do you guys think a feasible solution is? The only thing I could think of within reason was meeting in public places exclusively + the whole camera/audio thing but it's a band-aid solution.

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Comments (47)

Dec 4, 2018

The irony of this whole thing is that it has made people crave being monitored all the time. It is amazing.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Dec 12, 2018

Yeah it's really scary...

Dec 4, 2018

Wasn't this a terrible WSJ or Bloomberg article yesterday?

Solution is it's fucking business, don't be a creep, don't try to date anyone in the office, don't try to fuck anyone in the office, do your work, and you're straight.

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Dec 4, 2018
dr_mantistoboggan_MD:

Wasn't this a terrible WSJ or Bloomberg article yesterday?

Solution is it's fucking business, don't be a creep, don't try to date anyone in the office, don't try to fuck anyone in the office, do your work, and you're straight.

Your solution is 100% correct, but I did think it was an interesting article. Batshit, mind you, but interesting.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-12-03... for anyone wondering

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Dec 10, 2018

His solution is batshit. There are a lot of office romances that lead to marriage, off the top of my head is my best friend and my parents. My uncle and aunt are high-school sweethearts. I think this is a perfectly acceptable way to meet women, and frankly the only way many american men have. It is far more pervy to strike up a conversation at a bar or gym in my own opinion.

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Dec 9, 2018
dr_mantistoboggan_MD:

Wasn't this a terrible WSJ or Bloomberg article yesterday?

Solution is it's fucking business, don't be a creep, don't try to date anyone in the office, don't try to fuck anyone in the office, do your work, and you're straight.

No no no. You're not. There is always some crazy out there who can ruin your life. CC Deborah Ramirez.

I'm gay and I'm still terrified.

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Dec 9, 2018

Right?

It's the same logic as "don't leave your beer unattended at the bar" - the risk of your drink being spiked is low, but the consequences could be catastrophic.

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Dec 10, 2018

...except in this case your version of not leaving your drink at the bar unattended is, not speaking to women in the workplace?

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but Im pretty sure underhanded/conniving/shitty people trying to get a leg up in the business world existed long before the metoo movement.

To be clear I'm also very critical of the lack of due process afforded to anyone accused of any crime in this day and age. I've made several posts about my hatred of the court of public opinion/public shamming.

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Dec 10, 2018

No, the version is no closed door meetings, no situations involving alcohol, no one-on-one dinners, etc. I don't think that's crazy.

In case you haven't noticed, it's not always men acting creepy and trying to fuck people in the office, and "as a man" if something goes wrong, no one will believe you. Like you said, just do your work, but protect yourself.

Yes shitty people existed long before #MeToo... what's your point?

Dec 10, 2018
dr_mantistoboggan_MD:

...except in this case your version of not leaving your drink at the bar unattended is, not speaking to women in the workplace?

Also correct me if I'm wrong, but Im pretty sure underhanded/conniving/shitty people trying to get a leg up in the business world existed long before the metoo movement.

To be clear I'm also very critical of the lack of due process afforded to anyone accused of any crime in this day and age. I've made several posts about my hatred of the court of public opinion/public shamming.

Hang on a sec. It's about having traditional boundaries. When I step over traditional boundaries, I feel uncomfortable. I don't want to have dinner alone with an attractive colleague (unless she's lesbian). I don't want to be in a coworker's hotel room. These things make me feel uncomfortable. Partly that I'll make the other person feel uncomfortable, but partly because they make me uncomfortable too.

Now, if I were straight and it were another guy, it wouldn't be a big deal. Or with two straight women.

If women don't want to feel uncomfortable, don't make men feel uncomfortable.

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Dec 10, 2018
IlliniProgrammer]
[quote=dr_mantistoboggan:

I don't want to have dinner alone with an attractive colleague (unless she's lesbian).

I'm not attractive....want to grab dinner? Also, not a lesbian. Or gay for that matter. But, you seem like an interesting guy to hang out with for a short while. At least the two most storied trolls on this site could enjoy a drink or burger together.

Ready when you are.....

Dec 11, 2018

Sure. No homo. (I am allowed to tell that joke)

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Most Helpful
Dec 4, 2018

It's a slippery slope.

A number of recent articles talk about these measures of avoiding potential conflict, like not traveling on business with female co-workers, not getting hotel rooms on the same floor when traveling overnight. Some firms are scaling back or getting rid of certain staffer outings, which is disappointing.

And yes, there was a piece on Bloomberg News yesterday talking about "channeling Mike Pence" by not even dining alone with a woman in a public setting?! And Ron Biscardi CEO of Context Capital Partners has cancelled the after-party that he hosts after CCP's annual conference to avoid possible issues.

My concern is that by men trying to insulate and protect themselves from possible sexual harassment claims is that they inadvertently paint themselves in a corner that then puts them at risk of sexual discrimination complaints.

The vast majority of businessmen or any men in positions of power and decision-making are decent guys and they don't harass women. Just as the vast majority of businesswomen simply want to earn their positions and promotions via merit and effort. Sadly, it's the opportunists in each camp, while small in comparison, that end up being in the news cycle and making things appear far more skewed than they probably are.

Does harassment and coercement exist? Absolutely. Should it limit and color every single interaction between the sexes, or between boss and subordinate? Good god, I hope not, but it can certainly seem that way and I really hope it doesn't negatively impact the mentor role - as a woman in banking and finance, I have always had to contend with far fewer bosses and directors who were women, because the upper ranks have so few women to begin with, and so I've had very few female mentors and I have more often than not had no choice but to try to cultivate and benefit from mentor relationships with men.

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Dec 4, 2018

+1

Don't be weird as a man, disingenuous as a woman, and everything should be fine. Just be normal people...

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Dec 5, 2018
FinancelsWacc:

+1
Don't be weird as a man, disingenuous as a woman, and everything should be fine. Just be normal people...

The problem here is there is virtually no consequence for being disingenuous as a woman.
The bad seeds in the women's camp are protected beyond what's reasonable.

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Dec 4, 2018
InfoDominatrix:

My concern is that by men trying to insulate and protect themselves from possible sexual harassment claims is that they inadvertently paint themselves in a corner that then puts them at risk of sexual discrimination complaints.

This.

I haven't changed one thing and don't plan to. If you start stonewalling women from drinks or one on one meetings, you will be accused of sexual discrimination because that is exactly what you're doing.

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Dec 9, 2018
InfoDominatrix:

It's a slippery slope.

A number of recent articles talk about these measures of avoiding potential conflict, like not traveling on business with female co-workers, not getting hotel rooms on the same floor when traveling overnight. Some firms are scaling back or getting rid of certain staffer outings, which is disappointing.

And yes, there was a piece on Bloomberg News yesterday talking about "channeling Mike Pence" by not even dining alone with a woman in a public setting?! And Ron Biscardi CEO of Context Capital Partners has cancelled the after-party that he hosts after CCP's annual conference to avoid possible issues.

My concern is that by men trying to insulate and protect themselves from possible sexual harassment claims is that they inadvertently paint themselves in a corner that then puts them at risk of sexual discrimination complaints.

The vast majority of businessmen or any men in positions of power and decision-making are decent guys and they don't harass women. Just as the vast majority of businesswomen simply want to earn their positions and promotions via merit and effort. Sadly, it's the opportunists in each camp, while small in comparison, that end up being in the news cycle and making things appear far more skewed than they probably are.

Does harassment and coercement exist? Absolutely. Should it limit and color every single interaction between the sexes, or between boss and subordinate? Good god, I hope not, but it can certainly seem that way and I really hope it doesn't negatively impact the mentor role - as a woman in banking and finance, I have always had to contend with far fewer bosses and directors who were women, because the upper ranks have so few women to begin with, and so I've had very few female mentors and I have more often than not had no choice but to try to cultivate and benefit from mentor relationships with men.

There's a tug of war between women's rights and feminism. Women have a right to not be or feel coerced for sex. But do they also have a right to be treated the same way as a male coworker in a hotel with a straight guy at 11 PM at night?

I think for the people running around saying "just don't be a creep", that's bullshit. There are business situations that make men feel uncomfortable being around a woman where they wouldn't feel the same about being around a guy. And then the gay guys like me feel uncomfortable around everybody in these situations, and we've learned to work around them. I might do lunch or coffee alone with a coworker-- either male or female, but not dinner (unless it was an LGBT woman). Why can't women be ok with the same?

I have a better idea for all of the feminists out there saying "just don't be a creep". How about you stop being creeps? I don't want to have a business dinner alone with you, or with a guy (lunch might be ok). I don't want to be in your hotel room-- male or female-- alone while I'm on business (perhaps unless you're lesbian and you know I'm gay). These are some very traditional lines that you try not to cross with the opposite sex, and I think it's patently unfair to demand they be broken down and then later claim that breaking them down and getting yourself into a situation made you feel uncomfortable.

Women, as whole, need to decide whether it's ok for them to be uncomfortable and occasionally feel harassed, or whether it's ok for there to be some reasonable, traditional barriers between men and women in the workplace, especially in the manager-employee context-- that gay guys like me also have to work around, not just with the opposite sex but with practically everyone.

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Dec 9, 2018

Very nuanced points here. +1

I've taken the Mike Pence approach and it got me in trouble. Was accused of discrimination. It's a very fine line.

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Dec 9, 2018
InfoDominatrix:

My concern is that by men trying to insulate and protect themselves from possible sexual harassment claims is that they inadvertently paint themselves in a corner that then puts them at risk of sexual discrimination complaints.

I have more often than not had no choice but to try to cultivate and benefit from mentor relationships with men.

Rock and a hard place, no?

When does coaching become "mansplaining?" Where is the line between mentorship and misconduct?

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Dec 4, 2018

No.

Dec 4, 2018

I'm an adjunct instructor and no longer allow female students in my office during office hours; we sit in the corner of the student lounge area. The last thing I need is to get into a riff with made up allegations by a lazy female student trying to save her grade.

The dean of our school has a hard on for ending harassment. A rumor began that a professor told a sexist woman joke during a study hall which eventually hit the ear of someone on the campus senate. Before the facts even arose, the dean tweeted that the professor who told the joke will be fired. The tweet was then redacted when it was discovered that a student told the joke, not the professor.

Can't trust anyone these days and the internet is electric ink. Even false allegations will never wash away when google indexes everything forever.

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Dec 4, 2018

@InfoDominatrix great post above.

Agree with a lot of what has been posted. Unfortunately, don't be a creep just doesn't work in large or small offices. I've consistently seen in my career that organizations that have a lot of bright, high-achievers also tend to have a lot of quirkiness (deviation from the norm), which normally manifest in harmless, funny mannerisms, but can also generate in less-good ways (not necessarily illegal or immoral, but unhealthy, off-putting, etc.).

In an ironic anecdote in my office recently, in the past year we built out additional floor-space in our building. A completely private room with the wall on the hallway built out of floor to ceiling glass that was 100% glossed out was built with an initial intention of being a place for naps and nursing women (this was 100% part of the intention); this would require a locking door of course. After the lock was installed and one of our managing partners checked it out, he had our office manager have a non-locking door-knob installed specifically to avoid the chance someone could ever be taken advantage. So I guess now it is officially only a nap room or extra conference room. This is a small point to make, but was super interesting to see this become a point of concern... something like this never would have happened in the first few years out of school.

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Dec 4, 2018

To all the people who are saying (in what I read hearing a SF beta male's voice) 'yeah, like all you have to do is like be cool and you should be fine'... remember the words from Tupac:

"It's a lot of real G's doing time
'Cause a groupy bit the truth and told a lie"

Women lie too... and in today's climate there is no due process or presumption of innocence. One complaint and you're canned. Rather be safe than sorry in this instance.

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Dec 4, 2018

Couldn't agree more

Dec 4, 2018

Love the pac reference.

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Dec 4, 2018

The Bloomberg article mentions male higher-ups keep their distance from female junior employees because "a false accusation is what they fear".

This will all disappear as soon as the accused enjoy due process and the presumption of innocence, and the validity of sexual assault accusations ceases to be decided by the court of public opinion.

Too many companies would sooner fire a male employee and avoid potential fallout than ask the hard questions about the validity of the accusation.

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Dec 4, 2018

It's pretty interesting that there's this assumption that it is common that if you get one complaint you get canned. In fact, that is the least common outcome.

Have any of you even talked to women who have been sexually harassed at work? For the most part, those who do report harassment are stonewalled by HR or are made to jump through a thousand hoops. Harassment reporting policies are, for the most part, a facade that are obviously controlled by those in charge. They are designed to legally protect management and shareholders, Someone getting fired is usually the very last resort. Most women don't see it as worth it to report harassment because corporate harassment policies are not implemented to protect those who are harassed. They serve as legal cover and nothing more. Almost exclusively, only men who engage in the worst kind of behavior get punished.

Anecdotally, men who seem to be the most paranoid about #MeToo tend to be those who have few to 0 platonic female friends. All of the men I know who have a plethora of female friends who they hang out with are not worried about this shit. Only men who exclusively hang out with other men or their significant other are freaking out.

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Dec 4, 2018
DeepLearning:

It's pretty interesting that there's this assumption that it is common that if you get one complaint you get canned. In fact, that is the least common outcome.

Have any of you even talked to women who have been sexually harassed at work? For the most part, those who do report harassment are stonewalled by HR or are made to jump through a thousand hoops. Harassment reporting policies are, for the most part, a facade that are obviously controlled by those in charge. They are designed to legally protect management and shareholders, Someone getting fired is usually the very last resort. Most women don't see it as worth it to report harassment because corporate harassment policies are not implemented to protect those who are harassed. They serve as legal cover and nothing more. Almost exclusively, only men who engage in the worst kind of behavior get punished.

Anecdotally, men who seem to be the most paranoid about #MeToo tend to be those who have few to 0 platonic female friends. All of the men I know who have a plethora of female friends who they hang out with are not worried about this shit. Only men who exclusively hang out with other men or their significant other are freaking out.

A million times this. Think about the people who often do get canned. They tend to be creeps.

If you have a reputation for making inappropriate jokes, leering at women in the office, and in general behaving in an unprofessional manner, you're making yourself a target of that one in a million false accusation.

If you treat your colleagues and employees with respect and professionalism, you won't get in trouble, end of story.

These conversations always remind me of episode of the The Office where Michael complains that office censorship is preventing him from sending "hilarious" spam forwards and shit like that. The people who get into trouble and then bitch about how "it was just a joke!" deserve every ounce of punishment they get, and frankly, it's always amazing to me how many people on WSO (generally they seem to be younger folks) don't get that.

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Dec 9, 2018
Ozymandia:
DeepLearning:

It's pretty interesting that there's this assumption that it is common that if you get one complaint you get canned. In fact, that is the least common outcome.

Have any of you even talked to women who have been sexually harassed at work? For the most part, those who do report harassment are stonewalled by HR or are made to jump through a thousand hoops. Harassment reporting policies are, for the most part, a facade that are obviously controlled by those in charge. They are designed to legally protect management and shareholders, Someone getting fired is usually the very last resort. Most women don't see it as worth it to report harassment because corporate harassment policies are not implemented to protect those who are harassed. They serve as legal cover and nothing more. Almost exclusively, only men who engage in the worst kind of behavior get punished.

Anecdotally, men who seem to be the most paranoid about #MeToo tend to be those who have few to 0 platonic female friends. All of the men I know who have a plethora of female friends who they hang out with are not worried about this shit. Only men who exclusively hang out with other men or their significant other are freaking out.

A million times this. Think about the people who often do get canned. They tend to be creeps.

If you have a reputation for making inappropriate jokes, leering at women in the office, and in general behaving in an unprofessional manner, you're making yourself a target of that one in a million false accusation.

If you treat your colleagues and employees with respect and professionalism, you won't get in trouble, end of story.

These conversations always remind me of episode of the The Office where Michael complains that office censorship is preventing him from sending "hilarious" spam forwards and shit like that. The people who get into trouble and then bitch about how "it was just a joke!" deserve every ounce of punishment they get, and frankly, it's always amazing to me how many people on WSO (generally they seem to be younger folks) don't get that.

We're not talking of the proper process of going through the HR channels. One tweet and you could rot. You have next to nothing to gain and everything to lose by toeing this line.

There were a group of kids of a certain ethnicity visiting a Chipotle regularly. When their food was finished, they would grab the to-go bags and run out the door; this happened enough times for their faces to be recognized among the staff. A manager saw the same kids in the store and demanded that they pay first. The kid started filming, saying that because of his ethnicity, they were not being served until they paid first and tagged Chipotle in the tweet.

Chipotle fired that black female manager upon seeing the tweet saying that the restaurant would be closed for a day for proper retraining of employees. They then ate crow when the FACTS came to light that one of the kids had a 'dine and dash' twitter account showing him running off without paying for food as a hobby all over town.

Problem with us financiers and WSO in general is we assume people act rationally with truth and logic. They don't.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/11/21/race...
Comments are just rich, LMAO!
Nope, sorry, too late.

Sue them for $300,000,000.

This woman (WOMAN!) put herself at risk defending her employees and the company's interests from male (MALE!) thieves and the Company publicly humiliated her, advanced the media's libel and defamation against her, and summarily fired her.

This compmay must be punished hard, so hard that other companies will think twice before obliging politically correct antiAmerican fascist criminals, terrorists, and traitors.

Once Chipotle goes down, then she sues the complicit media agencies for hundreds of millions more.

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Dec 10, 2018

Hah. Sorry to tell you, but one anecdotal story about someone being fired for what was thought to be prejudiced behavior doesn't validate any point of view, at all.

Historically speaking, women have faced some fairly discriminatory workplace environments for decades. This is across a long period of times and many industries. You don't invalidate that because one Chipotle manager got fired over a misunderstanding.

The world isn't fair, and sometimes shit happens. If you're on the receiving end of it, it seems like a pretty raw deal, and I get that. And if you're a complete moron, you don't even have the perspective to understand that said lack of fairness is so institutionalized into most American workplaces, or was until recently, that it's what most women go through on a daily basis.

And by the way, your example is not supportive of what I assume your overall point is. A rash corporate decision was made, evidence came to light, and the woman was offered her job back. In other words... they system worked, if not perfectly.

Which brings me to my point. If you treat others with respect and don't treat the workplace like your frat house at 2am, then you have no more to worry about than being struck by lightning. If you saw a guy walking around in a storm with a giant metal pole, you'd feel bad that he got fried but understand he brought it on himself. If you're reasonably careful then it's not even a risk worth evaluating.

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Dec 10, 2018
Ozymandia:

Hah. Sorry to tell you, but one anecdotal story about someone being fired for what was thought to be prejudiced behavior doesn't validate any point of view, at all.

Historically speaking, women have faced some fairly discriminatory workplace environments for decades. This is across a long period of times and many industries. You don't invalidate that because one Chipotle manager got fired over a misunderstanding.

The world isn't fair, and sometimes shit happens. If you're on the receiving end of it, it seems like a pretty raw deal, and I get that. And if you're a complete moron, you don't even have the perspective to understand that said lack of fairness is so institutionalized into most American workplaces, or was until recently, that it's what most women go through on a daily basis.

And by the way, your example is not supportive of what I assume your overall point is. A rash corporate decision was made, evidence came to light, and the woman was offered her job back. In other words... they system worked, if not perfectly.

Which brings me to my point. If you treat others with respect and don't treat the workplace like your frat house at 2am, then you have no more to worry about than being struck by lightning. If you saw a guy walking around in a storm with a giant metal pole, you'd feel bad that he got fried but understand he brought it on himself. If you're reasonably careful then it's not even a risk worth evaluating.

Cool story.

Dec 11, 2018

Also,

A rash corporate decision was made, evidence came to light, and the woman was offered her job back. In other words... they system worked, if not perfectly.

This is interesting. Perhaps Chicago Police can adapt this tactic of handling 911 calls since, as you claim, this system works perfectly.

Dec 10, 2018
Ozymandia:

Historically speaking, women have faced some fairly discriminatory workplace environments for decades.

The world isn't fair, and sometimes shit happens. If you're on the receiving end of it, it seems like a pretty raw deal, and I get that. And if you're a complete moron, you don't even have the perspective to understand that said lack of fairness is so institutionalized into most American workplaces, or was until recently, that it's what most women go through on a daily basis.

So which is it?

The world is unfair, and people have to deal with it, or the world is unfair, and we should work to change it?

Or is it "women have had it worse than men in the past, so now it's time to even the score, sorry men?" As a man, why would I agree to that?

Ozymandia:

If you treat others with respect and don't treat the workplace like your frat house at 2am, then you have no more to worry about than being struck by lightning. If you saw a guy walking around in a storm with a giant metal pole, you'd feel bad that he got fried but understand he brought it on himself. If you're reasonably careful then it's not even a risk worth evaluating.

OK so when something unfair happens to a man it's his fault, but when something unfair happens to a woman it's also the man's fault?

What is "reasonably careful?" It's prudent for women to exercise caution around men, but for men to exercise caution around women it's paranoia?

CC: @WolfofWSO

Dec 4, 2018
m_1:

Just curious if it's changed anything for anyone else?

Not going to lie, it's made me very paranoid, I don't meet anyone (male or female) at all unless it's in a public place and I had cameras installed with audio at our main office.

I talked to a few executives at larger companies about this and some outright refuse to meet 1 on 1 privately with woman, which I think is really bad. Kind of sad the whole thing has created some serious glass ceilings for woman.

What do you guys think a feasible solution is? The only thing I could think of within reason was meeting in public places exclusively + the whole camera/audio thing but it's a band-aid solution.

Based on the maturity you show in your posts, I somehow doubt you're in a position to "mentor" anyone. However, to answer your question, I think the solution might be to not sexually harass your female colleagues. I know it's probably hard for you, but the sooner you can work on it the better.

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Dec 4, 2018

Totally agree regarding the solution you have proposed. It seems like a simple concept but apparently it is not so simple.

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Dec 4, 2018

One of the main partners at my firm is female. I've never had any issues. When you take home 7 figures, you generally don't want to risk anything and it's always better to be completely safe/protected. If you learned to read, you'd see that I do all meetings regardless of gender in public places or in a rec'd environment. I know reading multi-syllable words can be hard for you though. When you're less broke, maybe you'll understand insulating yourself as much as possible and hedging risk. A novel concept, I know.

Dec 4, 2018
m_1:

One of the main partners at my firm is female. I've never had any issues. When you take home 7 figures, you generally don't want to risk anything and it's always better to be completely safe/protected. If you learned to read, you'd see that I do all meetings regardless of gender in public places or in a rec'd environment. I know reading multi-syllable words can be hard for you though.

Is your username in reference to the BMW M1 from the late '70's / early '80's? That was such an amazing car.....

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Dec 5, 2018
DickFuld:
m_1:

One of the main partners at my firm is female. I've never had any issues. When you take home 7 figures, you generally don't want to risk anything and it's always better to be completely safe/protected. If you learned to read, you'd see that I do all meetings regardless of gender in public places or in a rec'd environment. I know reading multi-syllable words can be hard for you though.

Is your username in reference to the BMW M1 from the late '70's / early '80's? That was such an amazing car.....

nah, he's a nerd. Its the money supply, most likely.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/m1.asp
What is M1
M1 is the money supply that includes physical currency and coin, demand deposits, travelers checks, other checkable deposits and negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) accounts.

SB though - I love BMW M <333

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

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Dec 4, 2018

hahaha it's sad but the truth people are scared at my firm ...

Dec 4, 2018

Having had a very close friend and roommate falsely accused of rape, and after seeing how he was treated for months by the police and school, I am most likely overly paranoid about things like this. Always down to help, but I've for-sure missed opportunities with women based solely off the fact that I wasn't 110% sure they wanted to have sex.

Dec 5, 2018

I haven't changed anything personally. Why would I?

The people who are concerned; Are you also afraid of interacting with foreigners in case someone accuse you of being racist?

Dec 5, 2018

being racist isn't illegal

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Dec 5, 2018

Somewhat related, but a close friend of mine had a crazy fiance. They got in a spat one night and he ended up calling the police to get her to leave his home as she was breaking things and would not obey his order to leave. Police show up and she screams, "He hit me!" That statement alone caused my friend to get arrested, spend a night in the cooler, miss work without the ability to give notice, and have a few future court dates to look forward to.

He was a salesman by trade and figured he could handle things through reason and truth at the first court appearance. No chance. Charges held at the arraignment and he was scheduled for trial accused of assault and battery to some degree I can't recall. He spent nearly five figures in attorneys fees with months of stress and grief only to finally be exonerated when his ex-fiance crumbled during cross examination.

A 3 word lie screamed by her caused all this. He considered going after her civilly to recoup all of the legal fees and lost wages he incurred; but she was a deadbeat socialite with a negative net worth. Even if he won a judgement, it would likely never come to fruition.

The financial impact aside; everyone assumed he was guilty and there is still biased history on google should you search his name. He's certain he's lost sales due to this, but not much he can do to erase old newspaper reports indexed online.

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Dec 5, 2018

and this is why men do that.

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Dec 6, 2018
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Dec 10, 2018