9/2/17

If I could create my custom schedule at college, I would take the basics of every type of business course and then 90-100 credits of finance, economics, and some other upper-level business courses here and there because that is what I enjoy and the field I am aiming for. However, I don't think there is a university in existence that gives degrees to those whose education is so narrow, and I understand that other courses are important for a complete education.

To graduate, or sometimes even start taking business courses, one must complete a wide array of liberal art courses which include history, English, religion, literature, foreign language, philosophy, and many others. This does not go the other way though. You can study the basic core in high school, and then liberal arts in college, never touching a basic business or finance class in your life. How is this possible? How does an entire educational system miss arguably the most important subject to real life? No wonder we have a huge student debt crisis if many of those taking out student loans don't know even know what annuity is, and they're using them to pay for school.

Obviously, there are some exceptions to this, like 5 of the Ivy leagues being only liberal art programs at the undergraduate level, but for the most part, that does not make any sense. Is there a course of action you think that could be taken to change this? Or perhaps do you think that this isn't a problem? Looking forward to hearing that perspective if anyone on here has it.

Comments (45)

8/24/17

It should be.

26 Broadway
where's your sense of humor?

Financial Modeling

8/25/17

valid point. should be. isn't.

I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing.

See my Blog & AMA

8/25/17

1.) Our school system at the high school and middle school are archaic. Though there is a place for every subject taught (even history is important to learn about the past), topics such as coding and personal finance, among others, would be most beneficial.

2.) Topics on personal finance are not that hard to learn. Usually parents should teach this to their children, but most parents don't know how to do this properly or suck as parents. Additionally, if these were taught in school would kids actually listen?

3.) If a these topics were easy to teach they would be taught. A lot of teachers don't understand these topics and they usually don't teach what they don't know. If teachers knew tax law in and out they would probably be an accountant.

8/29/17

The issue lies within the system itself. If people understood how stupid it is to go out and spend $300k on an education that will pay you $35k/year upon graduation, universities would not be churning out debt-laden graduates at the rate they are today. Our society thrives on the basis of portraying what you have by what house you have, what car you drive and living outside of your means.

The path to personal financial freedom is to spend<$ you make yet, this concept is lost on a large majority of the population.

Personal finance is also like one user said, one of the most difficult subject to teach because so few have mastered it themselves. This is a concept best taught at home, however most parents are poor examples as well and thus educate poorly and add more to the ignorant in the form of their children.

8/30/17

Good points.

Also, have to remember that higher education is a business, even if labeled "non-profit". ~40% of tuition is plowed back into recruitment, that's why you play $45g per year and see no substantial improvement to the campus, yet the promotion materials get better every year.

Personal finance just boils down to paying and saving. Is $10 a lot of money? If all your needs and wants are $9, it is very much money, if all your needs are $11, it's not. Add/subtract 0's as needed.

8/30/17

It's a little more complicated than that. You need to understand the tools that are available to you in order to benefit from them. I had one kid talking to me about trading currency pairs (wtf?). The American capitalism systems is extremely open and beneficial to all those that understand it. Maybe if we had real financial literacy in this country we could eliminate the silly belief that there is some conspiracy to give corporations all of the poor people's money.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"
[email protected]

Go to a target or people will never forgive you.

8/29/17

It's in nobody's best interest but your own to become financially literate. Society wants good little worker bee employees - not people with independent though who can fend for themselves, financially or otherwise.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/29/17

It's in nobody's best interest but your own to become financially literate. Society wants good little worker bee employees - not people with independent though who can fend for themselves, financially or otherwise.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/29/17

Ah, conspiracy theory guy, NF.

8/29/17

It's not a conspiracy. It's just not in the best interest of money so it doesn't happen. Why isn't nutrition taught? Why isn't philosophy and meditation and proper athletics and lifestyle?

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/30/17

Philosophy is a require credit for most colleges, and while meditation isn't, PE is a standard class all through grade school.

Best Response
8/29/17

Yeah. I'll always remember the talk my pops gave me when I was just a young fratling. He took me on his lap and said to me, "Son, remember this, in life there is only one way to judge a man. And that way is by how many fucking G's his dad pulls in a year. You've made it FratLord, you've achieved greatness. Just reach age 21 and it's all yours, $17,500,000 tax free in a trust." He then wiped a tear from his eye as he cracked open a cold one and finger blasted my mom, who was still in her neon Tri-Delt sorority tank top. His brow was creased and he thought a bit before adding, "Oh, and only fucking pussies rush Beta".

Still makes my eyes well up thinking about it yo

8/29/17

Butt-chug or regular chug on the beer?

in it 2 win it
8/30/17

This is gold.

Financial Modeling

8/29/17

Saving money and keeping costs down is pretty self-explanatory.

8/29/17

dude you are not in a position to be shitting on anybody

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/29/17

I'm not shitting on anybody. There is no need for a mandatory class that boils down to basically 1) Not spending your money on stupid shit 2) Save every penny 3) Keep costs down where possible.

For example. Lots of kids at my HS have little to no net worth because they went to McDonalds or Chick-Fil-A every morning, fucking suck it up and eat when you get home and pack your own lunch. Another thing is don't throw money on fancy clothing, you're not impressing anyone. I notice kids who have Citizen Eco-Drives and Seiko watches which are $300 and such a waste of money. Mah man, like I said, you're not impressing anyone. I guess I'm just really good with my money considering I have WAY more than people my age.

No need for a mandatory personal finance class lol, it is seriously this simple.

8/29/17

I agree that people are stupid spenders, but there is no benefit to calling them idiots and moving on with your day. A personal finance class teaches how to balance a bank account, write a check, do taxes, how to live on the cheap, and more essential things. I was very lucky to have my parents teach me about personal financial responsibility, but the vast majority of kids don't have that and saying "figure it out stupid" doesn't help the situation.

8/29/17

Hey I don't disagree. +1

8/29/17

you're honestly old enough to not be this dumb. you're young but not fucking 9

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/29/17

Personal finance and sex education class were mandatory in my school and mandatory in many states. Personal Finance class is becoming more and more demanded in high schools across the country and is making progress. Sadly sex education isn't taught in many states, and those states have the highest teen pregnancies, teen abortions, STD rates, etc.

8/30/17

Didn't know that personal finance is required or even offered in some states. Kind of funny that you link it with sex ed as they're almost one in the same.

8/29/17

The advent of the modern day schooling structure was to produce obedient laborers. People who were capable of going through the motions, but not smart enough to question authority / understand the true inner workings of society.

Henry Ford once said something like (and I paraphrase) - "if everyone knew how the monetary system works, there'd be a revolution the next morning."

8/30/17
Stay.Hungry:

How is this possible? How does an entire educational system miss arguably the most important subject to real life?

First off, do you really think that the majority of people believe that personal finance is the most important aspect of real life? There's naturally very few people on this forum that aren't concerned with building wealth, but the vast majority of the population doesn't prioritize getting rich as finance professionals do.

If the education system (elementary and high school) put a greater emphasis on how to get rich, over understanding a nation's history, how to effectively read and write, and how to understand the complexities of the world (math & science), the population would be a bunch of mouth-breathing, disorganized alt. right supporters.

Second, where tf did all of you go to school?

I was raised in a small remote city in northern Canada and in high school I was taught plenty of personal finance (how to properly use credit, the purpose of budgeting, etc).

8/30/17

Not to be an ass, but "the proper use of credit" is actually an oxymoron, because the proper use of credit is actually no credit.

8/30/17

You don't understand how smart people use credit yet you play smart saying shit like oxymoron? Eat a fat one pal

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/30/17

We're talking about credit for the masses in general. I agree, a very small number of smart individuals can use credit to benefit gains; however, most cannot, that's why credit companies are in business. We had a whole crisis regarding this in 2008-2009.

If you believe oxymoron is a big word I would advise staying away from credit.

8/30/17

NO, YOU'RE AN OXYMORON

8/30/17

I have an extremely hard time believing someone working in equity research would make such a ridiculous statement. Tell me, why do you think governments, corporations and individuals use credit if it's not beneficial in some way?

8/30/17

I work in equity research because I know how to analyze situations and read documents. For example, I read the topic of this forum as personal finance, not how federal or corporate debt is beneficial.

Credit isn't going away, most individuals need it for major purchases, such as a house. However, I think we can both agree that if individuals strictly made purchases with cash (i.e. did not use credit) they would be a in a much better financial situation.

It's actually not that beneficial if you think about it. It boils down to paying more money, to use a smaller amount of money. Take credit cards, yes, you get 1-2% back on items, which is really $1,000-$2,000 back for every $100,000 you spend. Credit card companies aren't giving away this money, they have the formulas and have done the studies to know if they offer these rates, they will win in the long run. Basically, they are real life casino, and their 51% will trump the masses 49% every time.

8/30/17

Believe me, I'm well aware that there is a cost of accessing credit, and how banks take profits, I'm simply trying to persuade you that your statement "the proper use of credit is no credit" is wrong.

I agree if most individuals didn't use credit to the extent that they currently do, for dining or expensive clothes, or cars they cant afford, economic mobility would be higher. However, ruling out using credit in all instances fails to consider the full picture.

Proper use of credit is responsible use of credit, that allows us to invest meet large upfront costs that are unattainable in the near-term through saving, that will eventually provide a return - be it housing, education, or whatever.

8/30/17

I think we both understand this topic and are on the same side.

"The proper use of credit is no credit" is not a wrong statement, it's 100% correct when discussing personal finance. If someone had the cash to purchase a home or a car would you advise them to take out a loan? Is it ever smart to pay $5 to use $4?

However, it is in no way a realistic statement. People need to buy homes, they do not have the money they need, therefore they borrow, I get it. Credit gets bad when people begin to do this for food or clothes as you stated. Bringing it back to personal finance, this is what needs to be taught in schools. How many students don't know that you will never pay off a credit card if you only pay the minimum? The personal finance problem is that people's don't think and take the easy way out. When student's can't afford college, they take out loans, instead of taking community college classes for 1/10 the price where they are able to work (and if smart) save for the additional two years for a four year degree.

A similar example would be discussing "healthy fast food". No restaurant will ever by as healthy and growing your own fruit and vegetables and eating them raw, but how many people will do that.

8/30/17

If you pay cash for anything at today's rates, your personal IRR is terrible.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/30/17

I still have to agree with @GoldenCinderblock here over @Ironman64.

It absolutely makes sense to pay $5 for $4 in assets, if the return on your assets ($4) is greater than the cost of debt ($1) over time.

I know UHNWIs that have made a killing in the last decade of ZIRP by borrowing at 2%, and plowing their leveraged capital into higher returning asset classes.

As GoldenCinderblock stated, if you think about your capital in terms of IRR, with today's near-ZIRP environment, paying cash up front is the stupidest thing you can do, to access the majority of asset classes.

8/30/17

You guys are absolutely correct with your numbers and analysis, but again, this is personal finance, in high school. Is that really the best strategy for the average person? Most people are not using debt for leverage, they are using it because they don't have cash.

On the business side: Can the average person take $4 and turn it into $5.01+ in our example? If there were multiple opportunities where the return was greater than the cost of debt, that people could understand, it would be a great strategy. (Effectively if this environment were true no one would lend, they would just invest). However, few people can leverage themselves with that much debt and produce returns. It's like anything else though, if it works out it's genius, if not its a stupid decision.

It's similar to coaching a 6-year-old basketball team and running the triangle offense because Phil Jackson used it to much success with Jordan and the Mumba.

8/30/17

Are you sure you're an equity research professional?

Do you realize that lending is the same thing as investing? Participants in credit markets that are lenders are investors ...in debt.

The reason debt is available at a lower cost than what several asset classes offer is because it is a lower risk asset class. Central banks around the world over the last 10 years have lowered interest rates, to increase credit availability, and economic activity.

I do believe most people **can **take $4 and turn it into $5.01+ it's called home ownership.

8/30/17

Forget card rewards. Businesses and real estate are the #1 things that make people money. Both are heavily dependent on credit.

heister:

Look at all these wannabe richies hating on an expensive salad.

8/30/17

I've attended 5 different school districts(public and private, north and south, US and abroad), and looked at many other secondary schools. None of them offered personal finance.

8/30/17

Somehow, the priorities in this country are fucked. Progressives don't see the value in modernizing school curriculum to help kids understand the importance of all of the basic components of personal finance. Kids should learn basic personal finance, because it's not as simple as a credit card and don't take on too much debt, if the world is to function in modern capitalism.

I think, the issue is funding these types of programs. Kids aren't interested and parents don't even understand it. There's no one really making a push. Those that go on to learn finance, don't typically want to make grade school educator salaries. As well, we're so behind that training would probably take some time to get to a place where we could distribute resources equitably to teach at all schools. I don't even know if teachers in grade school are even specialized in the courses they teach. I'm pretty sure they can learn it, but like I said, it would most likely be a cost schools don't want to incur.

"Loser terrorists" & "bad hombres"
[email protected]

Go to a target or people will never forgive you.

8/30/17

Because learning about how to take care of oneself isn't remotely as important as learning about Christopher Columbus for the umpteenth time, as well as studying the various oppressed ethnicities pushed down by the white man. I guess my point is that the awful historical deeds of the white man take precedence over learning invaluable life lessons that are paramount (in my eyes) for success. While history is incredibly important and everyone should recognize the injustices of the past, teachers get so fixated on ensuring that everyone appreciates equality, and thus, other crucial areas of education are overlooked.

The ability to save and invest intelligently will always separate the average from the great. Anyone can make 100+K annually, what you do with said income determines your self worth.

9/2/17

The education system in this country is a joke at just about all levels. Combine this with the fact that most teachers themselves are probably not qualified enough to teach personal finance (just sit in a Macro Econ class in high school that is non-AP and whats taught will make you gag).

Should it be taught? Absolutely! Will it ever be part of a nationwide mandated curriculum? Doubtful.

Just like people who bitch about how science and evolution is taught you'll have parents who'll complain when Jose, Tyrone, or Billy Bob is told or realizes that with his 2.5 GPA spending $150K+ on college is idiotic, that this course is denying them a chance at a college education or is racist or something equally stupid.

9/2/17

My Canadian friends had Personal Finance classes in Highschool. I'm sure there are in other parts of the world as well, just not a thing in the US. Must be a conspiracy.

9/2/17
9/2/17

I stay #REF!d to impress, spark these bitches' interest

9/18/17
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