As part of the new analysts hired this summer on the floor, our team (a writing/report/presentation-intensive bunch) received a new hire who has weak English skills but is very knowledgeable about finance, hard working (more than any other analyst) and wants to do well. She should have been placed on one of our less language-focused, more quantitative teams, but was switched to ours at the last minute and now it's too late. She's on track for an underperform; moreover, one of our VPs has an issue viewing professional women as competent equals, so she's at a further disadvantage.
As a senior analyst, what can I do to help make sure she gets off to a good start to her career (if not here, at least somewhere else)? She's smart, industrious, and a great person to have on the team, but got the short end of the stick through no fault of her own -- after all, she applied for the quant role.
As background, I work for a BB in our second-tier U.S. location.
Honestly, I think the best way is to take her aside and have a candidate conversation about what the feedback is for her. Might involve more work for you but maybe try and have her do a few assignments for you and then give her detailed feedback regarding her writing / english. That might be able to help her begin to work more on her english skills.
Definetly a diff spot to be in for all involved. If she's as bright as you've highlighted I'm sure she'll jump at the chance to try and improve once you point out that it is a serious issue.
Unfortunately, it sounds like she just doesn’t really have the “it” factor. You might have a instinct of loyalty and being nice, but if women want to be treated as equals, they deserve honest feedback. Not rude, but it doesn’t help anyone to dance around.
I’d help her move to another role, as it doesn’t seem like it’s something that can be easily improved.
Where the hell did OP say anything about treating his junior differently because of her gender?
You’re kinda straw manning (I didn’t say OP treats her differently), but I get your point. Last sentence of first paragraph implies OP wants to not be like his VP and instead see women as equals. I suggested a way for OP to do that (don’t treat her softly), which I also think is best for all parties.
This guy CLEARLY has the "it" factor.
Because she's a she, right? Men are trash. I can't wait until male nepotism fully comes to an end and underperforming men no longer plague the workplace.
Garbage post. She’s clearly struggling, and it doesn’t have anything to do with being a girl. The OP said it’s language, and you are the one making it about women.
This attitude of not being able to critique any protected group is patronizing and doesn’t help anyone. That’s what I’m trying to get across.
Mitigating the struggles of a slow-learning Analyst/ questions about FT training (Originally Posted: 11/23/2009)
I will be a BB analyst next fall.
I am a slow learner.
I am trying to take steps now to get myself a little ahead of the curve so that I don't get lost in training. First of all, what should I be doing to prepare? What are some topics or things you learn in training that analysts normally struggle with? I need to familiarize myself with these ahead of time.
also, how intense is Analyst training? My greatest fear is getting lost in training and just having a really bad start to the job. Right now, I am focused on taking whatever steps I can to learn all the topics of training beforehand so that when I go, it is all a review for me.
please help.
Had a similar issue with an analyst on our floor and I moved them to a quant role. Language barriers are very tough to get around when putting together pitch books and marketing materials. That being said, we were a much smaller company and able to make the move easily. At a larger bulge bracket I understand that its harder to re-position, especially in the position you're in.
I would not have a candid conversation with her (as this would undoubtably make her self conscious about her language skills), but would instead offer to proof read her work before it goes out and coach her on grammatical usage. I understand this will be a burden on your work load, but I'm assuming that if you went through the trouble of writing a post about the situation you probably care enough about her to block some incoming tackles.
To offer some sympathy, I've seen this happen plenty of times. Smart and capable people being fired because they were put in the wrong role. Would recommend you help them out as much as you can, but do not let your work product suffer as a result.
this is very good feedback.
Additionally, while it may seem like the right thing, I would not approach her with feedback. This could go VERY bad. If/when HR eventually gets involved in any capacity, you don't want to be delivering a message like that that could any way be conceived as representing the firm or giving feedback.
What I would suggest is talking to her. Asking her how it's going and see if she opens up to you about any struggles. If she does, then discuss how to possibly approach them. For everyone's sake, I think this would be the best long term approach.
While I definitely agree that being cognizant of the HR implications is crucial in any supervisory situation, I think OP can have a focused conversation that can help her while also making sure he doesn't put himself in a shitty spot.
The way I see it, the feedback on her language and presentation skills is clearly a shared view and is relatively common knowledge. He can easily let her know that it's a weakness that is limiting her performance. That's what we do every couple of weeks on our team: we let each other know where room for improvement exists so we can give everyone an opportunity to work on those problem areas before formal assessments fuck us all. Just need to keep it professional and direct. You need to improve on these areas. No sympathy.
The area where I think OP should tread carefully is in terms of offering non-standard advice or suggestions. I think it's worse to offer to edit her work more than is standard, to help her transfer, or to let her know he thinks she's being shafted or what not. Those moves would look like OP has a soft-spot for this girl and is being unprofessional by showing favoritism and wasting his time trying to help this girl out more than is normal or expected.
Oh, and definitely keep anything about your VP or anyone else's prejudices to yourself. That will get everyone fucked.
Thanks so much-- I spoke with one of the associates on the team that I trust (he's also recognized the issue) and we agreed to help go over her major deliverables prior to her submitting them to our VPs. We'll save the direct feedback for now, because it's not necessarily helpful, but I respect her enough to give her the truth if she asks.
just a thought
To hungry:
Kill yourself. Just a thought.
What do you mean by "slow learner"?
Do you have a learning disability of some sort?
And what kind of stuff are you planning to review before you start? Financial modeling? Concepts?
Review accounting and financial modeling - you can get the modeling materials from Wallstreetprep (probably cheapest on ebay).
and no learning disability, sofib09,....Just slower compared to really smart individuals that I meet on a daily basis. I am at a target school.
christ...
A lot of people don't take training very seriously. Just by being focused in class and reviewing everything afterwards, you should be ahead of the curve.
If you are that slow, then how are you at a target school? Judging by your approach of trying to study everything ahead of time, my guess is that you are a grinder. In that case, IBD will be a perfect fit for you. No sarcasm, this is really the truth.
im in my first year of school and have the wallstreet prep on its way here. i want to blow everyone away. people call me crazy for doing that
most ibankers are high functioning retards. you'll be fine
you've all been very encouraging. Thanks.
endlessrain: I have never actually been a grinder...quite the opposite actually. I've always done the minimum amount of work to get by fairly well. I sometimes feel that this mentality will ruin me in IB and that's why I want to get ahead of the curve. I feel like that is the first step to being a successful analyst (for me at least).
In that case.. you probably just feel slow because you are unmotivated. The job itself acts as enough of a whip that you'll be pushed to get work done.
If you feel that you must study something beforehand, go for accounting. The finance portion can be learned in a few days, but depth in accounting knowledge takes a while.
Agreed^^^^. Enjoy college it goes by fast. Just keep your grades in check at this point.
The only way an intern or a new hire is going to blow me away is by getting down on his knees.
1styearbanker, I was about to say that in-office gay sex probably isn't that common in banking, but the desperation levels of the college students on this forum leads me to believe that plenty of dudes here would blow you for a job regardless of their sexuality.
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get wallstprep or its equivalent. learn the excel shortcuts and practice them relentlessly. brush up on basic accounting statements. maybe reach out to your firm and ask if they have any materials to send you in advance as you'd like to get a headstart. turn a negative into a positive. and when you get there, just work hard and keep plugging away hard. 50% of the class will likely implode within the first 6 months.
He's an associate at a BB and never comes home. His words: "You don't need sh*t. All analysts and associates do is agressive word processing and word processing and word processing!"
www.rosettastone.com
Once upon a time, I was moved into a division that I hadn't been hired for with very little say in the matter. I had gathered they were going to fire or relocate most of my original team, so it was that job or no job. For many reasons, it was a very negative experience - there were good reasons why I hadn't applied for that division in the first place (I didn't have any relevant background and had a history of health issues arising from sleep deprivation). Even once I left on my own terms for a more suitable role, I had to deal with lasting physical and mental effects from my time there. I'm very happy with where I am professionally now, but it was such a hard experience that I wish I had left earlier.
I would agree with what everyone else has said about providing her feedback. One thing I would like to add from being in a similar situation is that when you don't have the background for a role, it can feel like being in prison. You're working all the time and trying to do everything right, but you have to work so much harder than everyone else to get to step one. You're always trying to play catch-up, and even when you're working busting your gut, you're sitting next to peers who have been preparing for this type of project for years longer. It is so exhausting, and that has implications for performance, especially in detail-oriented work.
So, I would try to make sure that you do things that make her feel like she's less trapped and that make her feel like she is not a failure. It's good for your personal brand and that of your team - who knows what she's going to say to family and friends if/when she leaves. You don't need to say anything explicitly, or drop any hints that she's on the chopping block. If occasions arise organically, you can tell her about other colleagues that have gone on to do other things, or that you'd always support people leaving to pursue their passions and would provide a reference for colleagues in that position. Also, you can ask her about her time at college in casual conversation, and say positive things about the quantitative capabilities she must have.
Depending on her relationship with you, you could take her to coffee outside of the office, and ask her where she wants to be in five years time. If you know people at other firms, you could put her in contact as long as this wouldn't violate your own contract.
Good on you for being so thoughtful towards her.
Thanks-- I have some comp/Excel modelling projects that she might be able to take over from me if she's interested. Will discuss her plans for the next few years over a quick coffee chat (we're encouraged to have them with people on our teams anyway)
Maybe suggest that she should work for HR or in the on recruiting team. Maybe as an executive assistant/administrative assistant would be good for her as well. Seen lots of her types around there. Is she hot?
This won't solve all of the problems but, if she has issues with her professional writing in English, I'd suggest she download "Grammarly" as a browser extension. It automatically grammatically corrects everything you write on a computer.
Very tough situation and some good answers above. I dealt with the exact thing a few years, so have included the stuff I tried:
1) I was the associate and took on more on staffings with her (which few people wanted to do). It was a huge pain in the ass, and I lost patience after maybe 2 months... I had to explain everything 2-3 times. And I was tired of re-doing her work. So essentially this strategy failed
2) The other junior analysts (all guys) teamed up 2 and 2 and basically excluded her from things. So we (the associates) took her to lunch and coffee, and tried to integrate her. This helped a little I think, made her more comfortable with the guys
3) I spoke to the analyst staffer and asked if he could double staff her. This was a bad idea since the better analyst did all the work, didn't teach her and left for home as soon as possible
4) The dick VP is par for the course. We had an MD who was biased against women and routinely excluded them from the interview process by saying he "knew they wouldn't work as hard".
5) Not to generalize, but we had a similar analyst (language barrier, quantitative, but male) who realized very early on that he was in trouble. So he became a modeling guru, and basically just started doing the excel work for others. In 4-6 months, he was everyone's first pick on a tough project
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