I got the title of "Investment Associate" but deep down I think i'm an Analyst at best?

IdkLOL's picture
Rank: Senior Chimp | banana points 21

I have a feeling my current title may haunt me considering I'm not on a skill-level of an Associate.

Should I tell my boss I want to remain an "Analyst"?

I have increased responsibilities (which I can deliver) but I still suck (and don't have a clear idea) how I'm supposed to model sweat equity returns/DEPS which I think are things Associates should easily explain and work on...?

Thanks!

Find Your Mentor

  • Increase your chance of landing a job by matching with one of our 200+ mentors.
  • Our mentors are top employees at the most selective firms.
  • Proven process with over 1,100 clients over 10 years.

Comments (21)

Nov 30, 2018

Don't worry about titles, focus on results.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
    • 1
Funniest
Nov 30, 2018
Isaiah_53_5:

Don't worry about titles, focus on results.

*compensation. Fixed that for you.

    • 5
Nov 30, 2018
BobTheBaker:
Isaiah_53_5:

Don't worry about titles, focus on results.

*compensation. Fixed that for you.

meh.

With the proper results, compensation should follow.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
    • 1
Nov 30, 2018

Hate to break it to you, but finance is a glorified clerical assistant role. We're not rolling out new products, services, or testing a cool new prototype; we're cashing the checks, balancing the books, and counting other people's money. Pretty weak regardless of what you do.

Nov 30, 2018

I guess developing a new building or investing in a new company, or infrastructure, or a new division of a company, or an M&A transaction all feels a lot like a "new product".

Learn More

Side-by-side comparison of top modeling training courses + exclusive discount through WSO here.

Most Helpful
Nov 30, 2018
REPESailor2020:

I guess developing a new building or investing in a new company, or infrastructure, or a new division of a company, or an M&A transaction all feels a lot like a "new product".

Some products developed in past couple of decades: junk bonds, poison pills, mortgage backed securities, etc etc etc

Lets not forget the 1970s. Fucking derivatives. They had no clue what they were getting into. Or maybe they did.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilylambert/2011/01/...
"A statue of Ceres, goddess of grain

Edmund "Eddie" O'Connor passed away early on Jan. 17, 2011 at age 85. If you haven't heard of him before, that's as he wanted it. O'Connor was an intensely private man, a trader primarily of soybeans. But he also was one of the men who invented modern-day derivatives.

Except for the time he left to fly in a plane during the Second World War, O'Connor was in and around his hometown. He worked as an usher at sporting events all over the city (he grew up just north of Madison Avenue, the dividing line, so he was a Cubs fan) and worked as a conductor on the elevated train. He graduated from law school in 1950 when, much like now, the economy didn't have room for more lawyers. He became an insurance adjustor but then found the Chicago Board of Trade, long before it became part of what's now the publicly-traded exchange company CME Group.

The Board was widely known as an Irish trading club, a characterization O'Connor disputed because there were people who weren't Irish. As for him, he was an outsider because he was a West Sider rather than a South Sider. He had a cousin at the Board who was a broker for firms that used futures to hedge, to lock in prices. But Eddie didn't have enough connections to be a broker himself so he joined the group of people who used futures to speculate, to take on risk that others didn't want. O'Connor joined the club in 1952 and stood in an octagonal pit, where men traded soybean futures with shouts and hand signals. Many others started as clerks and worked their way up, but he started as a trader. He became a big one and came close to bankruptcy once, but he told me to not use the word "bet" in my book. "Trading and betting are different things. Bettors didn't last long," he said.

He, however, did last. He brought on his younger brother, Billy, and they became a daring duo. They started a clearing firm, in the days when that took $25,000 rather than millions of dollars. With that firm, they cleared (guaranteed) other members' trades. Eddie wove himself into the fabric of the exchange, serving on committees and then the board of directors.

The Board of Trade was a stick-to-your-knitting kind of place, and O'Connor shook things up. One of the first things he did was introduce electronic quote boards to the old-fashioned trading floor, where prices had for decades been posted in chalk. That may or may not have been because some of the "board markers" holding chalk had trouble staying sober. I'll tell you this much: O'Connor didn't want the truth in my book. He wasn't the kind to spill secrets, even about people long gone.

He shook things up further in 1973, when he helped open the Chicago Board Options Exchange, created to give Board of Trade men something to do when the grain markets were slow. He didn't pull this off himself, but it was his idea and it wouldn't have happened without him. When the traders he knew were reluctant to trade this complicated new product, he and Billy formed another clearing firm and provided backing and support. "It was a little scary," he said. "We didn't know if the concept would fly, and we didn't have much money." But it worked so well that they had more business than they could handle. They sold their firm in 1979, and it's now part of Goldman Sachs.

Eddie happily returned to the soybean pit, just in time to make a mint in the 1970s commodities explosion. How much did he make, on this and other ventures? Good luck finding out. He became very rich, that's safe to say. I had no way of confirming his net worth, and he wasn't about to help.

He said his original goals were modest. "The idea that I always had when I first joined was to provide a living for myself and my wife, who I hoped to acquire in a short period of time." He married in 1955. He had five children, all of whom followed him into the trading industry in one way or another. While his brother Billy became famous for, among other things, crashing three different moving vehicles (a plane, car and boat) in less than 24 hours. Eddie was more subdued. He was a devoted golf player. I told one person that when I asked Eddie about trading, he made it sound boring. I was told this: "Eddie O'Connor is boring by design. He won't tell you half of what he knows. It's like the code. He won't say names, dates, places."

To be sure, O'Connor had his secrets. I heard a rumor that he squeezed the soybean oil market at one point, and he admitted he got a 90-day suspension for trading after the closing bell. But frankly, whatever illicit fun he had pales in importance to what he accomplished.

O'Connor and his colleagues, in starting the options exchange, opened a door to securities traders and to Wall Street, something for which some people in Chicago never forgave him. He started an options trading firm, which he sold to Swiss Bank Corp. (now UBS) and which Eddie considered the first derivatives firm in the country. Futures are derivatives, and the Board's rival Chicago Mercantile Exchange had been rolling out new futures contracts. But with stock options, the Securities and Exchange Commission blessed the first derivative of the securities world. That led to an explosion of them.

One day in the 1980s O'Connor read in the Wall Street Journal that someone had split a bond in two pieces to be traded separately. "Then it suddenly dawned on me what was happening," he told me last year. "Derivatives began to proliferate. It's completely out of control, really. When you look at what happened with the mortgage markets, they were creating derivatives that were based upon garbage."

O'Connor, however, came from a world where neighbors were responsible, people took risk with a purpose, and risk-takers faced consequences. He created a financial product that could be used to manage risk, and he created it for a world where men traded, they didn't bet. He cut one of our conversations short, telling me that we'd talked for an hour and he had to get back to work. Until recently, Eddie O'Connor traded from a small office in suburban Chicago that he shared with one of his sons and a son-in-law. He closed out a corn position in late October, before he had an accident that sent him to the hospital. He was a trader to the end."

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 6
    • 1
Nov 30, 2018

Also, Black Scholes in 1973

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Nov 30, 2018
Isaiah_53_5:

Also, Black Scholes in 1973

I remember being in my first derivatives course in college with some gunner for tenure. We were watching him mumble and write out the BSM formula on the whiteboard. We took notes but had no idea wtf this long formula was. Frankly, I've never used it since I was in that course. If I had the stones then that I do now, I would have barked out, "When the fk will we ever need to know this!?"

Nov 30, 2018
WolfofWSO:

I would have barked out, "When the fk will we ever need to know this!?"

(pam anderson grin)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b5/09/82/b50982ec54b75ccd9e13933bf2ff4443.jpg

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 1, 2018

Can't unsee the Tommy Lee video whenever I see her. #respect

Nov 30, 2018

Can someone ELI5 what derivatives are? Still have no clue

Don't beat yourself up on this, Eric. Some people like taking the long way home. Who the fuck knows?

Dec 1, 2018

Something that derives it value from something else.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Nov 30, 2018
WolfofWSO:

Hate to break it to you, but finance is a glorified clerical assistant role. We're not rolling out new products, services, or testing a cool new prototype; we're cashing the checks, balancing the books, and counting other people's money. Pretty weak regardless of what you do.

Sorry, you're thinking of accounting.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Nov 30, 2018
Isaiah_53_5:
WolfofWSO:

Hate to break it to you, but finance is a glorified clerical assistant role. We're not rolling out new products, services, or testing a cool new prototype; we're cashing the checks, balancing the books, and counting other people's money. Pretty weak regardless of what you do.

Sorry, you're thinking of accounting.

Finance, accounting, legal, HR; we're all support staff. We're not the ones coming up with strategy or innovation. We shuffle paper.

    • 1
    • 2
Nov 30, 2018
WolfofWSO:
Isaiah_53_5:
WolfofWSO:

Hate to break it to you, but finance is a glorified clerical assistant role. We're not rolling out new products, services, or testing a cool new prototype; we're cashing the checks, balancing the books, and counting other people's money. Pretty weak regardless of what you do.

Sorry, you're thinking of accounting.

Finance, accounting, legal, HR; we're all support staff. We're not the ones coming up with strategy or innovation. We shuffle paper.

Finance, accounting, legal, and HR all have innovation within them. Get a clue, brah.

As to finance and legal not having a strategy, that is just laughable.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 1
Nov 30, 2018
Isaiah_53_5:
WolfofWSO:
Isaiah_53_5:
WolfofWSO:

Hate to break it to you, but finance is a glorified clerical assistant role. We're not rolling out new products, services, or testing a cool new prototype; we're cashing the checks, balancing the books, and counting other people's money. Pretty weak regardless of what you do.

Sorry, you're thinking of accounting.

Finance, accounting, legal, HR; we're all support staff. We're not the ones coming up with strategy or innovation. We shuffle paper.

Finance, accounting, legal, and HR all have innovation within them. Get a clue, brah.

As to finance and legal not having a strategy, that is just laughable.

Do you even work brah!? I will end you.

Nov 30, 2018
WolfofWSO:
Isaiah_53_5:
WolfofWSO:
Isaiah_53_5:
WolfofWSO:

Hate to break it to you, but finance is a glorified clerical assistant role. We're not rolling out new products, services, or testing a cool new prototype; we're cashing the checks, balancing the books, and counting other people's money. Pretty weak regardless of what you do.

Sorry, you're thinking of accounting.

Finance, accounting, legal, HR; we're all support staff. We're not the ones coming up with strategy or innovation. We shuffle paper.

Finance, accounting, legal, and HR all have innovation within them. Get a clue, brah.

As to finance and legal not having a strategy, that is just laughable.

Do you even work brah!? I will end you.

Yeah. Go for it. Pretty weak logic overall so far for the summation of industries and their function...

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Dec 1, 2018

There is a difference between innovation in a field and the transactional nature of the job itself. Just because someone is adding technology to a job field doesn't mean the people doing that job are anything but paper pushers. Finance has some creativity but in all honesty it is pretty much a joke when compared to the things happening in other industries. Now this isn't a knock on people in the industry as much of the lacking comes from regulation. The innovation going on in finance is centered around moving money transfer and store systems out of the bounds of tranditional banking. The innovators are cutting fees and making transfers faster. These are things that provide a fundamental sorce of revenue and stability for the banking industry. Disruption is coming, it currently isn't targeting investment banking but it will impact IB as progress creeps forward.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Learn More

Side-by-side comparison of top modeling training courses + exclusive discount through WSO here.

Nov 30, 2018

fake it until you make it. (but hurry up)

    • 3
Nov 30, 2018
Dec 1, 2018

Startup Hedge Fund. Reply for consulting on starting a fund or partnering in a fund.

    • 1