Indian HS Senior deciding universities in Europe
Ps- This is a repost because I did not get a single reply on my first post
Ok so I am a HS Senior from India looking for an international experience right out of high school. I don't want to go for the cookie cutter IIT/VIT engineering or Delhi University/Ashoka/St.Xaviers/Christ Economics programs (popular econ programs in India) and I want to look for opportunities abroad as I the begin my adult life.
I have an A2 certification in German and Italian which I am aiming to reach B2 and B1 respectively prior to the beginning of my undergrad around this time next year and I aim to finish my undergrad with a C1 or C2 in German and B2 or C1 in Italian as well as learn other languages such as Dutch and French at a very beginner level and picking up languages are one of my rather stronger traits so language would likely not be a problem for me during my job experience but not being a native speaker particularly might hurt during the application process.
Goals- Getting into a MBB/T2 analyst role right out of UG (I know it is rather unlikely without a Masters in Eur but I will shoot my shot) or getting that role post MiM at top European MiM programs such as St. Gallen, LBS, Bocconi, HEC, ESSEC, ESCP, RSM, LSE etc. in financial centers such as London, Frankfurt, Paris, Zurich, Milan, Amsterdam etc. or in Dubai. Also I know this is a MC forum but I do have IB or the luxury industry as another option if not MC in Europe and would be elated to be placed at any IB analyst roles post undergrad or post masters.
Caveats I face- My family doesn't have enough funds to fund a 22000 GBP + London Living Costs LSE education in undergrad, this is true for other target/semi-target UK institutions requiring equivalent if not more money, thus I HAVE to look for continental Europe for UG, will go to UK for my masters if I get in but not for undergrad for sure.
Options I have in mind- Bocconi (Bsc Economics Management and CS or Bsc International Economics and Management), St Gallen (Business or Economics), Erasmus Rotterdam (International Economics or International Business)
Can you please rank these programs in order of best for my goal to the worst including best undergraduate internships, exchanges, networks.
Additionally any other schools and programs around the range of 0-13000 eur tuition are more than appreciated.
Also, how much are these degrees valued back in India especially Bocconi (for indian consultants if you are reading), because I might have to come back to India if I could not get a job in Europe
You should have a closer look into Germany or Austria.
Pros:
1. Costs: Most of the public schools will charge no tuition fees and if they do, it is only EUR 1500 per semester. Private schools charge from EUR 5k-7k per semester, although they are not really worth it in my opinion.
2. Career perspectives: You are interested in Consulting and the German Consulting market is the largest in Europe. BCG and McK have double the number of consultants in Germany than in the UK. Hence, it is easier to get into a MBB/T2 firm in Germany than in London. Additionally, salaries are the highest in Europe (except Switzerland) and about 20-30% higher than in London.
3. Competition: There will not be many other Indians in Germany, so this background could actually give you a chance to get a diversity bonus when applying.
Cons:
1. Language: You will have some required courses that are exclusively offered in German. So you would have to bring your German at least to B2 level in order to understand the courses. Furthermore, it is absolutely necessary to bring your German to C1, better C2 level by the end of your studies. Else, your chances on the job markets are extremely limited.
2. Masters degree: Consulting hires at MBB/T2 will have a Masters degree in 95% of the cases. The chance that you will also have to get one is thus very high. Big4 Advisory is certainly doable with only a Bachelors degree, as it is not very competitive in Germany
Target Universities:
Top Tier: You should focus on these Universities to get placed into MBB/T2 or IB
Second Tier: If you cannot get into the Universities mentioned above
Hope I could help you and feel free to contact me if you have further questions!
Thank you so much for responding, could not be more grateful. You are completely correct I actually do have a German plan for that. Attend HSG because they are one of the only top universities in the DACH region with Bachelors are in English and learn German whilst my 3 years at HSG to a C1 or C2 level (I am already A2 so I have a head start) and then go for my masters at WHU or HSG (SIM) itself and apply for German and Austrian jobs instead of Swiss jobs because they are impossible to get. Now the positive with HSG masters is its unbelievably good reputation in DACH region and even if I get Post Study work permit for 6 months in Switzerland, I can apply for jobs in the German and Austrian markets and with a the highest ranking MIM in the world and German proficiency with URM status, I think a MBB and Big4 is pretty doable and even IB is not out of the question. With WHU is that I get a longer post study work visa in Germany itself but its MIM, albeit amazing, does not match HSG. What my current plan is going Bocconi (BEconManagementCS) for the Computer Science edge and better access at Tech Consulting and the Tech industry if Management Consulting or IB doesn't work out well for me, and then go for HSG SIM or German masters, but the only thing here is that I HAVE to reach at least B2 level proficiency by the end of my bachelor's, i.e., study two levels of German in 3 years whilst at Bocconi, which seems pretty achievable, and C1 by the end of my masters. There are language courses at Bocconi for German and I can always exchange at WHU from Bocconi and gain an edge. The reason why I am so much into Bocconi is that they seem to have a good reputation in India as well as compared to HSG and with a CS in my bachelor's, I will have many more options at the table and if in the future I realize that Management Consulting is not for me like data science and quant fields where getting a job as an expat is relatively easier. Plus Bocconi has financial aid for Non-EU as well so cost is not that big of an issue here, plus I just love Milan and honestly from what I have heard HSG is a sausage fest in a rather remote (but gorgeous) city and I wanna have a fun and more diverse college experience if I am going abroad ahahaha. What do you think would be better the Bocconi (BEMACS) + German/HSG MIM or HSG (Business or Econ) + German/HSG MIM or WHU (IBA) + German/HSG MIM?
As an ethnic German I might be able to give you some insights:
IB in Germany is next to impossible (excluding BNP and very few smaller banks) if you are not a true native speaker (Flawless C2, no foreign accent) and have solid understanding of the German mentality and business culture. It may sound harsh, but nobody really needs an Indian Analyst/ Associate when trying to pitch for a big German Mittelstand mandate. As you already noted, IB in Switzerland is essentially only open for Swiss guys, while Austria is always covered from Frankfurt/ Munich.
MBB is definitely a little easier for foreigners, while Big4 are super easy to get into (they don't really care about target universities).
However if you really want to take a chance go for a B.Sc + M.Sc at Mannheim, HSG or WHU and really try to improve your German as much as possible!
Would replace WWU with EBS, as I didn't really meet a lot of WWU dudes during my IB stints. Otherwise solid list!
lmao im in the exact same situation as you but want to go into investment banking one thing you could also do is do a bachelors in india dirt cheap but living in india sucks but again college life is sick and the best thing would be to do a masters in germany possibly mannheim whilst in india youll have way more time to learn languages and if you can get into du or christ good consulting internships are easily possible if you start in your first year might take time but definitely possible,also you must know someone from your extended family into some sort of consulting role,no one networks in india but it can be incredibly rewarding but yeah the other option i see for you and the best one is to try as hard as you can to get a scholarship where you want to go good luck:) again im a hs senior as well so take my advice with a grain of salt
I do agree with your points dude but an international experience would be so much more challenging and fun though. India mai sab hi DU/Christ/Xaviers jaate hai mere aur unme kya farak rahega. Even if I come back to India, Bocconi and HSG and WHU and Erasmus have reputation equivalent to Hindu, Hansraj, Christ and Xaviers (maybe LSE=SRCC) amongst recruiters plus a person who has lived abroad and knows multiple languages and studied at top unis and is equally familiar with the Indian system and has an Indian Background (CBSE) as well, wont be looked down upon when compared to DU/Christ/Xavier/Ashoka grads for MBB/T2 jobs in India. Even if I want to do MBA, top MBAs like INSEAD really really love people with an international background especially when most Indian applicants are generic DU/IIT/BITS/VIT grads, this is going to make me stand out. And I do have connections in the UK (London Office AT Kearney Partner) and in India (CEO of Aon APAC and BCG Associate, Deloitte Analyst as well). Plus getting a bachelors and masters both in top European universities will give me much better networking in Europe if my final goal is working in Europe. Plus I have a Humanities+Maths+Econ background and I really doubt any top Indian unis have CS programs for Humanities kids ahaha. And at the end of the day, dude living in Milan/St.Gallen/Vallendar/Rotterdam >>>>> Pune/Mumbai/Delhi, maybe Bangalore is aight but not much better, including party and social scene, you gotta admit US>>Europe>>>>>>>India😔😔. Plus if I get accepted, St Gallen is around 2-3 Lakh p/y, Bocconi w/o finaid is 10-11 but with aid might be around 0-5 and they offer both merit and need based aid, WHU might be around 10-11 too but they only offer merit scholarships and erasmus is around 7-8 w/o merit. They are dirt cheap when compared to UK/US/Aus universities but on a higher end when compared to Indian unis (only WHU and Erasmus mainly).
I completely agree with you honestly khud india me rehna acha nahi lagta ive lived in the middle east my entire life but again it all comes down to cost honestly getting into places like LSE is pretty easy for me(not meaning to brag but it just is) but the fees is the major issue so that's the only reason i would've to stay in india but obviously europe to hai way better and if you can get a chance go for it tere paas language ka bhi advantage hai that's very very good, something i don't really have also i saw somewhere that getting into hk consulting even mbb is relatively easy if you know like 3 european languages not sure if you would want to work there but definitely look at working there post studying as well and good luck hope we both make it:)
Is the issue with not attending LSE because you think it’s too much money and hence not worth the investment or because there is literally no way for you to finance the education through family and loans etc.?
If the reason is the latter then that’s sad but understandable. If the reason is the former then I think you should seriously consider betting on yourself and going to a top 3 school in the UK/US. If you’re smart enough that getting into LSE is super easy (and look I don’t know how hard or easy it is I’m American), then I think you’ll do well through college and end up in a pretty lucrative job where you can make many multiples on this investment, especially if you choose a finance career. Maybe the US is too much of a risk because of the visa issues and shit even if you went to say Harvard. But post Brexit I think London is a very viable long term option if you go to a top top school there. When I say top top school I basically mean Oxbridge and LSE. and then UCL, Imperial if you’re really digging. America is still the best unfortunately but London is probably second place (I say this sadly as I live in Europe now).
Idk - the financial cost at first may seem daunting but its well worth the rewards if you can swing it. I went to HYPSM so 99% of the Indian kids I met were fucking loaded. Kids of Godrej, PE founders, Forbes, Ambani’s #2 lieutenant. BUT there were 2 normal Indian kids that got some financial aid actually, & when they initially came they had sticker shock, now they’re balling out 10 years later making bank. One went to HBS and VC etc.
Anyways, just a thought. Getting an undergrad at LSE will jumpstart your career better than many of those other places if you want to be in the UK.
I am not sure how to respond to this - you show so much energy and perspective at such an early age. More power to you. I think you have a great shot at all of these schools and the discussion is already going very well. Make sure you check out Prodigy Finance and EMPOWER Finance. I see that tuition is one of the key variables in your decision-making process. If you can make it to any of the top 3-4 schools in a country, I think you should be able to get unsecured student debt from these places to fund at least 60-70% of your cost of attendance. And then you can focus on seeing how to go around the other half; I have friends in States who went ahead and worked part-time to cover the rest. Not impossible but certainly difficult.
Also - avoid the MiM plans for now. Get into a top undergrad program and get the ball rolling. If necessary, get into a solid entry-level role and go for an MBA a few years down the line. If you are this early in the race with all the information, use it to your advantage and don't go the MiM route. Even for LBS and LSE, keep the MiM as an alternative route you would take if that is the only option available later in the future.
I wish I had more information from the European perspective. But, I am reasonably confident you will figure it out.
As always, feel free to discard everything written here. Cheers.
Oh um i just remembered dude,take a look at (sgh) warsaw school of economics and kozminski courses are in english both are in poland well respected across that region its not too far from Germany (about 1-2 hours by train if I'm not wrong) so its not impossible to get a job from there also is a semi target for uk investment banking if you network uk mbb is possible,the best part is its dirt cheap 4k euros a year you can pretty much pay all your expenses working part time,also big 4 hold like a lot and a lot of events on campus at sgh its very easy to get an internship and a job at big 4,the cons i see for you are: although most of the people in warsaw speak basic English you'll have to learn polish but i don't think that will be very very hard considering you are decent at german,apart from that its not as good as the targets you looking at but does have very good job prospects if you work hard,do your own research but poland seems good for you mbb also have regional offices in warsaw ask me any other questions you might have?
High school kid thinks highly selective top Indian universities are "cookie cutter" and consulting in MBB/T2 analyst is the most novel, off the beaten path, unique career.Alright, MBB in India or anywhere else for that matter have a pretty structured recruiting process. These processes start midway in your third year for internship and at the start of your final year for full time positions. If you study at say a Bocconi, you will have to recruit for India office while in school. For that, you will have to cold call and reach out to India personnel or ask the recruiter in Europe to connect you to India team. India offices cannot be a backup option if you fail to land a job in European offices.
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