Is America a Second-Tier Country?

Hey Monkeys,
Read up on this article from Bloomberg.

The article is based on the Social Progress Index report that is published annually by non-profit organization Social Progress Imperative.

I did some research and found results on the 2016 report and we actually rose up a rank from 19 to 18.

Over the past few years, America was faced with numerous social/civil issues that caused some aspects of the index to fall.

Since 2014, as discrimination in America rises based on race, religion, sexual identity, and national origin, U.S. scores in the "tolerance and inclusion" category fell, according to the study.

But...

America leads the world when it comes to access to higher education.

Thoughts?
Comments?
Edit: After the couple monkey shits I got, clearly I did something wrong - is it the wording in my post? If so, to make things clear, guys, I just wanted to open this topic to discussion and get some of your opinions. Please don't shoot the messenger.
Edit2: I do not think America is racist.

Comments (161)

Jun 21, 2017

Interested to know what "access to higher education" is defined by. Yes we may have the most college/universities but does it consider the average, long-term, negative impact that a 4-year school has on a student by requiring that they take out student loans?

What about the various European countries that have nearly free tuition?

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Jun 21, 2017

I've never seen a university require students to take out student loans.

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Jun 21, 2017

No, but our student loan system is absolutely flawed, sets kids up to fail, and allows for universities to raise prices without a change in demand. Sallie Mae guarantees student loans, which means kids who take out loans they won't be able to pay back to study majors that won't get them a job are still getting loans. It's the same issue with the housing crisis. The demand curve is being artificially shifted right which raises the price, making the student loan issue worse.

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Jun 24, 2017
BatemanBatemanBateman:

Interested to know what "access to higher education" is defined by. Yes we may have the most college/universities but does it consider the average, long-term, negative impact that a 4-year school has on a student by requiring that they take out student loans?

What about the various European countries that have nearly free tuition?

A college education should be free investment in human capital is good economics.

Jun 21, 2017

The only appropriate response:

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Jun 21, 2017

Haha, thanks for the laugh man. +SB.

Jun 22, 2017

Hilarious. SB

Jun 21, 2017

you don't like it move to Iran.

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Jun 21, 2017

Don't like what?

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Jun 21, 2017

all the winning we are about to do! As for the social index, name another country someone like the kardashians could make $M's based off of that TV show? There's interracial marriage, a sex change and rich white women taking advantage of a last name their father built that's not allowed in some countries. Also Kanye might be the smartest and most sane of them all haha

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Jun 22, 2017

"don't like it move to ...."

That's a propaganda technique employed by state intelligence services to subvert and suppress dissent.

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Jun 21, 2017

my father was in gov.

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Jun 21, 2017

Where is this utopia you guys talk about? No country in history has produced more inventions, ideas, technology, entertainment, education than the USA. In less than 300 yrs we have advanced further and faster on a social, political, technology, and economic front than any one country with a diversity unlike any other country.

We went from the Salem Witch trials (people believing in witchcraft), to electricity, to an Iphone and gender neutral bathrooms in a real short time.

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Funniest
Jun 21, 2017

Do me a favor.
1. Take a step back.
2. Literally fuck your own face.

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Jun 22, 2017

+1... HAHHAHA

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Jun 21, 2017

"Since 2014, as discrimination in America rises based on race, religion, sexual identity, and national origin, U.S. scores in the "tolerance and inclusion" category fell, according to the study"

I don't believe this at all. I'd love to see the raw data on this claim. Are they seriously asserting that gay people have faced INCREASED discrimination since 2014? That claim seems utterly preposterous.

Jun 21, 2017

I think you would have to ask what time period they are comparing it to. I have almost no doubt that since the election of Obama, racial tensions have heightened in this country. And no, it isn't because Obama "divided the country", which is a convenient scapegoat that individuals who are unwilling to address the real issues we face use (unless you mean he divided the country by being a black dude that got elected president). A lot of the racial backlash in this country is directly related to the angst caused by having a minority run the country, enough angst that "he's Muslim" or "he isn't born in the U.S." became actual arguments used by reputable individuals (like our current president) to defame him. You can look at the swelling ranks of hate groups after his election to realize that reality. To answer the OPs post, I think if you aren't upper-middle class or higher, America is a 2nd tier country in comparison to our counterparts in Western Europe/ Scandinavia, Canada, and Australia.

p.s. I welcome the MS, I will never stop speaking my mind on this forum. Ofc I realize that I am beset by (mostly) upper-middle class+ white people/ Asians on this forum so I'll speak from my point of view and that point of view may not coalesce with the forum consensus and that's fine. If your point of view differs so be it.

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Jun 21, 2017

The time period is since 2014...Says it right there in the first and second words...

Jun 21, 2017

I think you hit the nail on the head. American's seem to be very, very sensitive if you even imply they aren't the greatest country that has ever existed. America has definitely become a much more hostile environment for a minority of any sort and anyone who doesn't think it's a country as divided as it has been in some time probably needs to step outside of the WASP / Jewish environment of the northeast.

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Jun 21, 2017
BobTheBaker:

p.s. I welcome the MS, I will never stop speaking my mind on this forum. Ofc I realize that I am beset by (mostly) upper-middle class+ white people/ Asians on this forum so I'll speak from my point of view and that point of view may not coalesce with the forum consensus and that's fine. If your point of view differs so be it.

be*set
[email protected]'set/Submit
verb
1.
(of a problem or difficulty) trouble or threaten persistently.

are upper-middle class white/asian people troubling or threatening you persistently... by having differing opinions? did you mean to use this word in a different way...? maybe the google definition is wrong?

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Jun 22, 2017

FWIW, I'm a black guy and I completely disagree with you, though I held off on any MS since there's nothing wrong with or offensive about your points on balance.

Racial tensions have always been "heightened" in this country. If anything, the advent of cell phone video has had more to do with that, spurring the BLM movement and activism, then having a black President. Only here can we argue that it's both immense progress AND fuel for racism to have a black President. And that black President didn't help the cause much, demanding that boys be in bathrooms with girls, weighing in on every racial incident, and presiding over the most inequality we've seen in 3 generations with his stimuli to nowhere and mess of a health care plan. If we're going to point fingers let's get the targets right.

WTF is a tolerance and inclusion study, anyway? I'll believe my own eyes: Gay marriage is a thing, stop and frisk was struck down by courts, Asians are the highest earners in the country, women have more and better access to education than at any other period in our history, we allow transgendered boys to absolutely dominate girls sports, etc. and we're to believe that discrimination has increased? Good grief

as for tiers of countries-no, I don't expect that we'll rate higher than countries that are homogenous, with one language, strict immigration policy, and a population of individuals most likely to agree on everything. But fuck I don't think I want to be Europe either. I'm texting my friends in london every week asking about the latest terror incident, Spain has become a black hole for young workers (who are all moving to Argentina just to find jobs), Greece is a slave state, etc. Grass is always greener but give me a break.

Jun 21, 2017
Dances with Dachshunds:

"Since 2014, as discrimination in America rises based on race, religion, sexual identity, and national origin, U.S. scores in the "tolerance and inclusion" category fell, according to the study"

I don't believe this at all. I'd love to see the raw data on this claim. Are they seriously asserting that gay people have faced INCREASED discrimination since 2014? That claim seems utterly preposterous.

As a gay guy I disagree.

In general, there has been less discrimination against gays coming from conservatives-- that, I strongly agree with.

There has been more discrimination against gays coming from liberals. Particularly in the realm of politics and money. Face it: if you make money or vote Republican and happen to stick to your side of the fence, it drives liberals off the deep end. You are a bigger target for them than a white straight male. Then add in the fact that most (not all) gays are male, and we get called out for our male privilege. Oh and then there's all of the feminists getting into our bedrooms-- women telling two adult men whether or not they can do it after a few beers or not, yet demanding that we stay out of their bodies when they want to kill a fetus.

Honestly, this country was a lot better in 2007 when the biggest obstacles to my civil rights and liberties were fundygelicals. At least they did it with a grandfatherly smile and claimed they were opposed to our civil rights and liberties because they wanted the best for us and loved us. Also, while I am not going to overlook the violence some of us faced (IE Matthew Shepard), the evangelicals didn't engage in riots. And compared to the politics of today they look quite forgiveable in retrospect.

We used to be a country where we could just sorta live and let live. Whatever happened to that?

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Jun 21, 2017

"if you make money or vote Republican and happen to stick to your side of the fence, it drives liberals off the deep end."

They can't understand why you vote for the party that actively discriminates against LGBT rights, after all the party you vote for fought voraciously against your right to get married, of course it's because you're rich but that just makes you a sellout (in their eyes not mine). I don't see how this is discrimination against gays though, they dislike you not for being gay but (mostly) for being a republican.

"Then add in the fact that most (not all) gays are male, and we get called out for our male privilege."

Again, nothing to do with discrimination against gays, this is a male-female thing.

" Oh and then there's all of the feminists getting into our bedrooms-- women telling two adult men whether or not they can do it after a few beers or not, yet demanding that we stay out of their bodies when they want to kill a fetus."

No idea what you're talking about here so some examples would be nice.

To be honest, you seem to be taking it to the extreme in this post. You're talking about extremist liberals not moderates, if we juxtapose that to extremist conservatives I would venture to guess you'd rather be around the extremist liberals being gay than extremist conservatives, although both sides are crazy.

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Jun 21, 2017

Also to be sure, I don't consider America to be a second tier country, nor do I consider the University of Illinois to be a second tier university.

America's values are liberty and hard work. They have not served us perfectly, but they have served us well.

There are things about this country that I think everyone would like to make better, but I like the country just the way it is.

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Jun 24, 2017

So, third-tier university then?

Best Response
Jun 21, 2017

America is thought of as a second tier country because we're behind or vastly different from the traditionally "top countries" (mostly in Europe) in the following:

-quality of primary education
-defense spending (we spend a LOT)
-cost of healthcare
-social rights (LGBT stuff)
-gun control
-violent crime
-income inequality
-cost of college
-environmental legislation

but let me hit you with reality, this is the best fucking country on earth if you believe in capitalism:

  1. most established, deep, transparent, and efficient financial markets
  2. easy to start & fail at business (ask anyone from LatAm why this is important)
  3. access to capital
  4. quality of colleges
  5. quality of healthcare (drug R&D capital of the world)
  6. despite the rhetoric, we do not have massive demographic issues, 23 is now the most common age in the US (and the boomers aren't the biggest generation)
  7. individual freedoms (religion, speech, assembly, etc.)
  8. natural resources, natural beauty, and geographic size (no we're not running out of oil, people have been calling for peak oil for hundreds of years)
  9. manifest destiny and meritocracy - the american dream still exists, most of the fortune 400 started either with nothing or a miniscule fraction of what they have today, so they BUILT it.
  10. ethnic diversity. ever been to China? India? Italy? Sweden? the reason we have diversity issues is because we're actually DIVERSE, despite the countries who opine about our intolerance.

we all have our issues, but if you asked me where I would be born if I could completely start over, I wouldn't choose anywhere else. maybe I would've chosen southern california instead of the midatlantic, but still USA no doubt.

that being said, if you value things more than the ability to better your circumstances, then you may not like USA. but if you believe in capitalism, you shouldn't want to be anywhere else.

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Jun 21, 2017

I agree with everything you've said, wasn't born here but if I could choose what country to be born in/ live in for the rest of my life it would be the United States. With that said, the losers of this capitalist dream would all be better off in Western Europe, Scandinavia, Canada, or Australia.

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Jun 21, 2017

no argument there, and your first statement is why I keep coming back to why America is #1. it depends on what you value, but if everyone wants to be here, there has to be something to it, right?

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Jun 21, 2017

-quality of primary education: this is a problem but because of brain drain and how good our universities and colleges are at the highest levels, don't we still benefit from other countries good primary education systems, sometimes more than they do?

-defense spending: couldn't a lot of these countries, ex. Scandinavian ones, not actually provide these other benefits if we didn't spend to take a shit load on defense? a lot of our NATO allies don't pay the amount they are supposed to.

-cost of healthcare: shit man you are spot on with this one haha no rebuttal at all

-social rights: really? i'm pretty sure we have like 10000 groups that focus on LGBT rights man, i don't think our country is particularly bigoted... the president is the first openly pro-gay marriage president-elect ever and the only president to ever have a gay man head his transition team

-gun control: no rebuttal here =/

-violent crime: got any stats on this? we are probably worse than a lot but sweden and some similar places have seen huge spikes in crime recently

-income inequality: welp

-cost of college: you don't like us having $1.3T in college debt? i think it's working fine!

-environmental legislation: besides the paris climate accord, are we really bad at this? i honestly think that was a shit deal btw, if you look at the actual climate models the UN was using and how much it would cost...

Jun 21, 2017

look, I don't think all of the negatives I said about America are as big problems as they are, I'm just sharing what's commonly cited as reasons why we're not #1. I learned that it all depends on the lens through which you view things and what is important to you.

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Jun 21, 2017

the way I see it, none of these problems are immediately fatal.

they can all be addressed with incremental progress over decades.

all the other countries listed in the Bloomberg article are A) much smaller geographically and B) much more homogeneous demographically than the U.S. - both of which make it easier for politicians in those countries to implement policies that please and benefit everyone.

If you are competent and hardworking, you would have the same chance of becoming successful in either the U.S. or a Scandinavian country. If you are stupid or lazy, or both, you will be screwed anywhere, but probably less so in a Scandinavian country.

Jun 22, 2017

In China, we're called Mei Guo, which translates to Beautiful Country. We don't point out how good this is often.

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Jun 21, 2017

they must never fly into LaGuardia then...

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Jul 2, 2017
thebrofessor:

- ethnic diversity. ever been to China? India? Italy? Sweden? the reason we have diversity issues is because we're actually DIVERSE, despite the countries who opine about our intolerance.we all have our issues.....

Agree with all the points made except the above. India is way more ethnically, culturally, foodwise, religionwise etc. etc. diverse, long before America came into existence and when diversity became fashionable in the western world.

Sometimes I feel too much diversity in my country is more detrimental in building a nation.

Jun 21, 2017

Yep, America is now DOGSHIT.

BOTH the governing leadership AND general populace....COMPLETELY HOPELESS

Putin is GOD, and his Russia is a shining NATION ON A HILL.

Russia = Goldman Sachs
U.S. = Tobin and Co.

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Jun 21, 2017

This is stupid, look at the source for this report and then step back and think what possible motive they could have for making America appear low on this ranking? Could it possibly be that they are a social program focused non profit that benefits from studying the social program sector? What better way to bring in more money for studies than making the country appear low on the charts. Why just do one study when you could follow that up with dozens that try to find ways to improve things?

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Jun 21, 2017

Fake news.

Social Progress Imperative? Lol, sounds like an objective source. Might as well just title the article "Here is a random reason we don't like Trump or Red America today."

Jun 22, 2017

I have never understood how government taking more and more control over the people is a sign of progress.

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Jun 21, 2017

remember the source: elitist liberal bloomberg who opines about everything yet has benefitted from the capitalistic unequal income generating society which his empire bashes regularly, not to mention his company (and therefore his billions) was built on the notion of information asymmetry (you pay to get the best info instead of it being for free).

how delightfully hypocritical

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Jun 21, 2017

Let me tell you, my family immigrated to here from India some 55-60 years ago (I'm only a fourth Indian) and they fucking love it here. Like not in a million years would they return to live in Bangalore. For groups coming from third world countries this place is the best shot they'll ever have at having a decent life. Is this country perfect? No, but no country is. And don't even start with that oh blah blah blah European countries have this and that. The bottom line is that every country has weaknesses. For example in a lot of Western Europe you're subjected to socialism and more stringent encroachment on your rights, i.e. The Netherlands. You don't get any of that shit here in the states, because no one is giving handouts over here. For the most part you're on your own here, and everything has a cost. That's what makes this country run the way it does and for some reason some people can't fucking deal with it. That's the beauty of this country, if you work hard enough you can literally achieve anything. The sky's the limit.

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Jun 21, 2017

Actually the edge of the solar system is the current limit. America has gotten that far.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Jun 21, 2017
heister:

Actually the edge of the solar system is the current limit. America has gotten that far.

But, but, but Denmark...

Jun 21, 2017

Encroachment on your rights in Netherlands? Que? That's a first.
Socialism models in Scandinavia are a bad thing? Tell me more about how Sweden, Norway, Denmark, etc. are unproductive societies.
It's the best shot at having a better life for a third worldie, especially from India?

Firstly, for Indians, a major number of them tend to migrate to the Middle East and the UK rather than the US, simply because the USA does not welcome immigrants as much as European countries do. Truth is, Asians tend to focus more on obtaining a world class education for their kids, which is why they try to prep their kids for HS in the US itself and hope that they make it into a top university (and the USA has (had until severe AA took over) arguably the best universities in the world). Asians always want to gun for the best education if they can. In comparison, Middle Easterns and other third worldies choose European nations primarily to misuse their generous welfare systems.

Socialism models in Scandinavia are able to provide for a major share of the population's needs, thus allowing them to focus on actually having a life rather than staying focused on paying debts and making ends meet. Even after the huge rounds of immigration (which are being curtailed so as to take only top talent), the socialist models are able to support themselves. Usually, it is observed that immigrants who settle in Scandinavia either settle there and integrate well - to the point of being more productive than the natives - or they can't cope up, can't afford the high standards of living and just get fed up and leave to someplace else in Europe.

I don't know about the encroachment of rights you talk about in the Netherlands, but the only right I honestly care about is the right to my privacy - even over my right to freedom of speech - simply because my private life matters to me, while I really don't bother with using my Freedom of Speech to protest fruitlessly against some policy, or to riot against the government and damage stuff in the process.

TBH, there are much better alternatives for people now to immigrate abroad from the 3rd world, but most choose not to, simply because a.) USA is an English speaking country - easier to integrate as compared with France where they'll need to learn the language and customs, b.) bragging rights that are largely irrelevant, c.) companies' locations, d.) top universities, and most Asian immigrants place a huge focus on a US education. Chalmers or KTH cannot compete with Harvard, duh.

GoldenCinderblock: "I keep spending all my money on exotic fish so my armor sucks. Is it possible to romance multiple females? I got with the blue chick so far but I am also interested in the electronic chick and the face mask chick."

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Jun 21, 2017

...It's understood that socially progressive countries are the most restrictive. I mean that's not even debated, it's a fact. Second, when did I say anything about productivity? Third, I don't know why you're trying to tell me about the landscape for Indian immigration...I'm fucking Indian dude, I go to India at least once a year and trust me when I say most Indians on the lower end of the caste system (The ones washing their clothes in the alleys) would kill to be here.

Jun 21, 2017

Yeah, I don't get how the Netherlands has more stringent encroachment on your rights as it's one of the most socially progressive countries on the planet.

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Jun 21, 2017

Socially progressive countries and their laws by nature encroach on individuals' rights the most. Like, that's not even something that's controversial.

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Jun 21, 2017

Far left politically = super restrictive on social rights. I mean it's basic political theory man. The Dutch as a whole are pretty far to the left.

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Jun 21, 2017

Dude honestly, you can't call America racist and then site a handful of countries that are 99% white as being less racist. All of those countries are way more racist than America they just don't have to deal with Mexicans and Black people. Fact.

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Jun 21, 2017

As a minority international student in the US, I agree 100%.

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Jun 21, 2017

Mexicans should just take their tacos with them when you guys kick them out and I think the US would seriously reconsider it's position.

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Jun 21, 2017

The amount of garbage in every major US city makes one think it's a second-tier country.

Jun 22, 2017

Go to DC, and you'll change your mind. Downtown areas can be a little nasty, but no where near as bad as NYC.

Jun 22, 2017

It depends what you want out of life. If you are highly ambitious, America is the place to be. If you are happy to be middle class, you can get that standard of living working fewer hours in other countries.

Most indices of this sort put America as tier 2 after northern Europe and Switzerland but I think the immigration statistics speak for themselves.

Jun 21, 2017

Here's an interesting article for those in this thread sucking the proverbial d*ck of Europe:

"EU court: Vaccines can be blamed for illness without scientific evidence"

http://www.acsh.org/news/2017/06/21/new-dark-age-e...
Study linked from the article: "Four times as many groundbreaking discoveries per capita occur in the U.S. than in Europe"

https://academic.oup.com/spp/article-abstract/doi/...

Jun 21, 2017

Is it really fair to use one court ruling as evidence against the reality that Europe has less gun crime, cheaper higher education, and better healthcare for people who aren't upper-middle class+? Agree on the innovation point though.

Jun 21, 2017
BobTheBaker:

Is it really fair to use one court ruling as evidence against the reality that Europe has less gun crime, cheaper higher education, and better healthcare for people who aren't upper-middle class+? Agree on the innovation point though.

Europe doesn't have "better healthcare"--this myth has been busted and discussed ad nausem. It has cheaper higher education because it restricts access and, by the way, you get what you pay for--U.S. universities are by far better, on average, than European universities.

Jun 21, 2017

Cheaper healthcare, better education, etc. is just so...mythological. Coming from a family of immigrants, they couldn't believe some Americans actually thought that America's education system, healthcare system, and whatnot are worse than Europe's.

Jun 22, 2017

Let's revisit the Islamic state of Europe and how great it is in a decade. Place is a museum with irrelevant inhabitants.

They tax the shit out of their people because the US provides their defense and they are still running a deficit. France has major economic and structural issues. Nordic states aren't much better. And we are talking the last 40-50 years. Communist Russia lasted as long and failed.

And Europe is amazing is you're gay or a feminist. Free speech is limited. They isolate muslims (the us does a far better job of integrating them). And by Europe you only mean a handful of Western European states. Bunch of Eastern European countries have restrictions on gays, as does Italy and Spain.

Go and try and start a business in these countries. Or not pay 50% or more in tax.

Have people actually travel to Europe? Shit.

Jun 21, 2017

Islamic state of Europe - yes I'm sure the Muslims will overrun the continent and form a caliphate, sharia law will be enacted. This isn't alarmist bullshit at all. A few knife & car attacks will really change the paradigm.

On the economic issues - things could change in 50 years and these Scandinavian/ western European countries could need major economic reform but let's look at annual deficit as a % of GDP (2016 estimated figures). Germany runs a surplus, France's debt is 3.4% of GDP, UK is at 3.9%, Italy is at 2.6%, Switzerland is at a surplus, Sweden is at .4%, Denmark is at 2.5%, Iceland is at a surplus, Norway is at a surplus, Spain is at 4.1%, Ireland is at .8%, the U.S. is at 2.9%, Australia is at 2.1%. While I couldn't find confirmed figures I am sure those only differ by a few basis points. From this it seems their fiscal situations are no where near as bad as you painted it and the Nordic countries absolutely outclass the United States fiscally while providing much better standard of living for the average citizen. While I agree with you regarding military spending, our country has piled money into that aspect of spending and largely ignored key infrastructure and entitlement programs that would no doubt make the standard of living for the average citizen better. Somehow Australia spends less of their GDP as a percentage on healthcare and they have universal healthcare. The structural issues with youth unemployment and lack of income mobility is an issue no doubt. But I imagine if you ask the average middle class individual if they would trade the possibility of becoming rich for a stable and relatively worry free middle class lifestyle they'd take the stability that Western Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, and Canada provide.

No one was discussing Eastern Europe, that's an obvious straw man. Many people are saying Western Europe, Scandinavia, Canada, and Australia have a better standard of living for the average citizen than the United States. They seem to be using that tax money well. I don't see how this can currently be disputed, perhaps 50 years from now that won't be the case but let's deal in the present.

Completely agree on your assessment of integration in the region, they're used to having homogenous societies unlike the U.S. but I imagine that will improve over time.

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Jun 22, 2017

You do realize Europe includes Easter Europe. It isn't a straw man to expect precise language.

You're other points I decided to ignore and not read because I don't want the detritus you have clogging me synapse.

Stay sleepy

Jun 23, 2017
TNA:

Let's revisit the Islamic state of Europe and how great it is in a decade. Place is a museum with irrelevant inhabitants.

They tax the shit out of their people because the US provides their defense and they are still running a deficit. France has major economic and structural issues. Nordic states aren't much better. And we are talking the last 40-50 years. Communist Russia lasted as long and failed.

And Europe is amazing is you're gay or a feminist. Free speech is limited. They isolate muslims (the us does a far better job of integrating them). And by Europe you only mean a handful of Western European states. Bunch of Eastern European countries have restrictions on gays, as does Italy and Spain.

Go and try and start a business in these countries. Or not pay 50% or more in tax.

Have people actually travel to Europe? Shit.

TNA as a minority Muslim I fucking agree with you (shocker)! The Nordic states are struggling and if they aren't now, they soon will. Illegal migrants from the Middle East and North Africa run towards Germany and places like Sweden because those governments are stupid enough to take these people in and give them welfare and aid.

With the downturn in oil which will continue it wouldn't shock me if Norway for example was forced to cut back because programs that they do have were sustainable because of high oil prices and high taxes. Economic strain and the downturn will easily put pressures on the programs they have. Add in illegal migrants who didn't have much in their own countries to begin with will be a further parasite that forever sucks the tits of Europeans until their nipples are chapped and bleeding.

France took in Muslims and I bet they must secretly hate it as you can't even venture into the burbs without being harassed and heckled. I mean even in Germany the bitch ass of a Chancellor had the audacity to blame women for being "sexy" instead of putting her put down on outrageous behavior from Sunni Muslim shitheads.

Also why the fuck in the 21st Century do you have to explain to men that it is NOT ok to hit women or grope them in public?!?! Are you fucking kidding me!

/rant

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Jun 21, 2017

"The Nordic states are struggling and if they aren't now, they soon will. Illegal migrants from the Middle East and North Africa run towards Germany and places like Sweden because those governments are stupid enough to take these people in and give them welfare and aid."

These immigrants are trying to make a better life for themselves much like any other large immigrant population of the past. There is no evidence that the Nordic states are struggling, their fiscal position is much better than the United States' fiscal position, if you have actual evidence that says otherwise then present that. If you have evidence as to increased violent crimes such as rape, robbery, or murder since the influx of Muslims into France then present that evidence, we can all make proclamations and yell a lot, doesn't mean those proclamations are correct. Facts, let's try dealing in those rather than hot takes.

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Jun 22, 2017

Inshallah my brother.

Germany has done a shit job integrating Turks who are seen as second class citizens after over a decade in Germany. Yet Merkel the pig thinks millions more will magically weave into the fabric of society.

IMO, is happily convert when the caliphate rolls through. Western liberal society is heinous in the most extreme form. Gender fluidity? Yeah, time for an upheaval. Weakness can never survive and the west is The epitome of what happens when the lions have been killed and the prey runs free.

Jun 22, 2017

Lol Europe. Wait 50 years when Sharia Law rules Europe and FGM is mandatory.

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Jun 23, 2017
worklogin:

Lol Europe. Wait 50 years when Sharia Law rules Europe and FGM is mandatory.

They may not even need to wait 50 years. As uncomfortable of a topic as this may be...Sunni Muslims are notorious for having more children than they're capable of taking care of. They do this on purpose as having lots of kids is used as a method to take over.

Palestinian women have large number of children as a way of overtaking the non-Muslim population within Israel. Possibly one of the reasons why Israel doesn't want a single state solution either.

Overpopulation of Africans and Sunni Muslims in Europe and Latinos in America is going to be the cause of future strife in these regions.

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Jun 21, 2017

Europe is an aging and dying population, white America is as well. Europe is not doing well with integrating the next era of productive workers, America (generally) is. Hispanics and other immigrants will prove beneficial to the American economy for decades to come. To think that bringing in young workers who will have children and pay taxes into the system and keep the working population large enough to finance entitlements is somehow a bad thing is so far divorced from economics I don't even know where to begin. Of course you generally just make claims with no supporting evidence or statistics to back them up so I'm not surprised at your implications here. Look towards Japan if you want to see the result of a population that is progressively getting older as time passes coupled with a ridiculously restrictive immigration system.

Jun 22, 2017

Everyone knows it's you ISIS. We may be second-tier after all, but you're more third-tier than Rutgers (if that's possible).

Jun 22, 2017

For those saying Europe is less racist than the US, I have one question: Have you ever seen an Italian or Spanish soccer match where there is a black player on the opposing team? The crowd is often calling them monkeys and throwing bananas at them.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=130886&page=1

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Jun 21, 2017

Yea, idk where that myth comes from. Spain & Italy are particularly egregious in Western Europe and Eastern Europe is even worse.

Jun 22, 2017

Why are white countries held to such high standards in terms of racism? I never understood this. The history used to justify this is so selective.

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Jun 23, 2017
PeterMBA2018:

Why are white countries held to such high standards in terms of racism? I never understood this. The history used to justify this is so selective.

This. And why are there so many liberal White apologists out there?

Jun 21, 2017
PeterMBA2018:

Why are white countries held to such high standards in terms of racism? I never understood this. The history used to justify this is so selective.

We let them do it to us. We should never be aggressive about our race, but there's nothing wrong with being a little assertive. The Moors conquered much of Europe and took Spanish and French slaves-- same with Hannibal of Carthage. That doesn't change the fact that The Alhambra is a beautiful castle. Meanwhile, most of our ancestors were effective slaves as European peasants. Our ancestors had a 100 or 200 year head start over those who suffered chattel slavery, but it wasn't THAT big of a head start.

Look, slavery has thankfully been dead for 150 years-- about five or six generations. Jim Crow has been dead for two generations. And if you go far back enough in history and your last name isn't Windsor, most of us can find a majority of ancestors who were owned by someone else. Either on a plantation or a feudal estate.

There is nothing wrong with asserting that European history and culture is as legitimate as (but not more legitimate than) other cultures, that our ancestors had their own battles and struggles, or that modus ponens, exponential functions, or sine curves aren't Eurocentric mathematical or logical devices subject to challenge on cultural grounds.

Bottom line: don't attack other races or cultures or heritages, and gracefully and respectfully stand up for yours if it is attacked.

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Jun 21, 2017

Who is "them"? Define assertive. Who cares about what happened hundreds of years ago? Look at the difference in generational wealth vs. the difference in income among whites and minorities in the United States, the compounding effect is real and stating a 200 year head start isn't THAT big of a head start is simply not true. Who cares when slavery ended? I mark the late 60s as the point in which this country started to really started to become equal opportunity, and that is just in the letter of the law. It is 2017 and there are still studies that show employers discriminate on who they offer interviews based on what race the name sounds like (Jamal is less likely to get an interview than John given identical credentials) so let's not act like the wave of a pen brought equal opportunity, it's a work in progress and we've made great progress for sure though. It's cool that your ancestors may have been feudal servants in 14th century Germany but black people are being told "go back to Africa" to this day. There is a segment of the population that sees these people as not American or lesser despite their ancestors likely being in this nation for 100-200 more years than many white immigrants. I mean, imagine an Italian-American whose grandparents came here in 1910 telling a black dude whose ancestors date back to the 1700s to "go back to Africa".

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Jun 21, 2017

It's the same reason Western Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, Canada and the U.S. are held to higher standards for everything else. If you want to be the best and remain the best, judging yourself by the standards of Africa, Eastern Europe, or the Middle East isn't optimal.

Jun 22, 2017
BobTheBaker:

It's the same reason Western Europe, Scandinavia, Australia, Canada and the U.S. are held to higher standards for everything else. If you want to be the best and remain the best, judging yourself by the standards of Africa, Eastern Europe, or the Middle East isn't optimal.

Ok so white supremacy is bad unless it can be used to justify social criticism. Interesting point.

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Jun 23, 2017

America isn't second tier, that's fairly obvious. However, America has the potential to be so much more than it currently is. That's what is sad

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Jun 21, 2017

have faith GC, America is going through a Progressive Era pause in the economy much like we did at the turn of the century when autos, Irish, and Italians were taking jobs from everyone and Catholics were thought of as pariahs. these periods happen over and over again, but as long as we stay away from central planning I think we'll come out on the other side better than before.

While I share your feelings that things need to change (for me, the top things are primary education & cost of healthcare), I'm still glad we live in a country that allows people the freedom to say "HEY, AMERICA SUCKS," encourages this dialogue and rewards those who successfully challenge the status quo. the very definition of progress is realizing that you can be better and using trial & error to work through the changes. we've always progressed my man, we'll continue to do so

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Jun 23, 2017

Take it from an immigrant from Kenya (A country in East Africa and please don't call me African as I lose respect for most people who do that especially to tell me what qualities 54 countries have), America is definitely not second tier but there are some puzzling things about America that even after ten years, I think why?

1.) Healthcare in America is fucking great. I had surgery, it was efficient and well done BUT, the system is fucking atrocious. I have insurance and it was not cheap!
2.) Higher education is amazing but yet again who designed this loan system? Were the citizens sleeping when they started charging 50 grand for an education? Being an immigrant I truly did not realize what I was getting into.
3.) Fear: I genuinely feel Americans think that things that are issues really aren't. I came here legally and followed the procedure. I've been here 10 years and I'm a liberal but fucking hate this democrat and republican bullshit. I am also completely unphased by Muslims and illegal immigrants. Sorry to all but I just think it's not that big of an issue. Plus, I despise religion but I feel like the really big issues never get talked about. I feel there are far bigger issues to address but people seem to harbor the thought that the world is becoming some gigantic Islamic state and that makes me laugh. Plus most of these terror attacks are by citizens even in Europe.

On that note, I would be lying if I started screaming that America is all my dreams come true. I'm a nomad at heart and I have felt extreme joy and peace in the village that I've never felt here but I also have been enlightened in ways I couldn't be else where. I like the quality of life here but that's cause I love decently.

In all honesty, if you have some wealth, you can live decently anywhere.

Jun 24, 2017

OP, you probably got more monkey shits for complaining about the early ones than for any other reason.

It's internet reputation on a goddamn forum (even though a lovely one), it's not like they are going to impact your dick size or your income. Who cares..

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Jun 21, 2017

I wasn't complaining about the early monkey shits, I just thought that I said something wrong and was just trying to clear things up in case that was the reason why I was getting a bunch of MS in the first few minutes of the post being up.

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Jun 24, 2017
To <abbr title=investment banking&#10;>IB</abbr> or not to IB:

I wasn't complaining about the early monkey shits, I just thought that I said something wrong and was just trying to clear things up in case that was the reason why I was getting a bunch of MS in the first few minutes of the post being up.

Then just ask why are so many people disagreeing with the post.

Because monkey shits are a quick way to disagree without going into details, which can easily turn into ''I'm too lazy for a proper discussion, I just disagree with the headline or whatever, I'm just going to give a quick disapproval''.

In that case, you are overestimating the importance of a lazy attempt to express disagreement. Address only those who actually bothered explaining why.

Jun 24, 2017

If we define a second tier country as one in which, roughly, 'doesn't allow for upward social and / or economic mobility', than America is a first-tier country. Just came back from Italy and a lot of the 30-40 year olds were telling me economic / social mobility is severely limited for those coming from the south (southern italy that is). In the ideal world, in my opinion, hard work + ambition should lead to upward social/economic mobility. America allows for that. This forum I bet is full of children of immigrants or grandchildren of immigrants and I bet a chunk of them were entrepreneurs. The American dream still exists in my opinion but yeah healthcare costs and higher education costs are (in my opinion) obscene. I was talking to someone at the store today (someone much older than me) who asked about my Uni... when I told them how much the tuition was their jaw dropped.

Jun 24, 2017

No

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

Jun 25, 2017

second tier why? because some bullshit non profit said so ? what a waste of time

Jun 25, 2017
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Jul 9, 2017
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Jul 12, 2017
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