Juul Ban
Looks like the pres is going to ban all the decent flavors for vaping (we all know tobacco flavor sucks) so the question is do we start smoking now or ride it out?
Looks like the pres is going to ban all the decent flavors for vaping (we all know tobacco flavor sucks) so the question is do we start smoking now or ride it out?
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Just stocked up on enough pods to last me six months
Was going to do the same but feels like delaying the inevitable. Pisses me off
why suck on a Juul when you can suck on BBC
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. These flavored pods such as for juul are for ADULTS, they aren't for little kids who are underaged to buy them. Unfortunately, people will buy them for younger kids which is completely illegal. How can you ban something that is specifically stated that the product is for adults and it is not for children whatsoever.
honestly nothing is more edgy and cringy seeing people who've never even touched a cig and are like 19 buying pods. but just let people do what they want, this proposed ban is dumb as fuck.
What in the literal fuck are you talking about
What the fuck did I just read lol
We live in America. People should be free to make their own choices, even if they're bad ones. That's part of life. Similarly I would say that they should then have to experience the consequences of those choices, which in this case is being addicted to fruity fumes. If kids decide to circumvent the law to do this (just like drinking) it should be on the parents, not the government to do something about it. Advocating for banning every vice is proof of a pathetic mindset because it just means you have no self discipline.
I would rather be a degenerate than a pathetic individual with no discipline.
I would rather be a free degenerate than a law breaking pathetic individual with no discipline.
The issue is that the public ends up paying for people's choices. If more people ate healthy, we wouldn't have the same health care costs we do.
So yes, you should have the ability to make choices, but sin taxes aren't a bad thing. At least in theory, smokers pay for part of the cost the impart on society through tobacco taxes. But I dislike the fact that some obese person in Iowa can slurp down 72 ounces of soda every day and then make me contribute to their inevitable care requirements.
Are you 80?
I want whatever you're on
This has the ramblings of someone when asked "Sir, who is the current president?" answers emphatically "Dwight Eisenhower!"
Ergo Clears, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this forum is now dumber for having read it. I award you no bananas, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Damn! You beat me to it. Have a banana.
Old man yells at vape cloud
This paragraph could be a quote from a homeless old man on rambling on the street yelling at a Vape Cloud thinking it was a DNC conspiracy ghost.
this guy's gonna fuck once his balls drop
weird flex but ok
I'm going to go ahead and assume you have a state-school education and are unused to debating. Your points don't follow from a set of factual predicates, so even if your logic were sound (and it isn't) your conclusion would be invalid.
What I think you're attempting to do (though you do so poorly) is link the decline of American religiosity with the rise of vice, and then attempt to link that rise with laziness, social decline and a decrease in our ability to colonize Mars? That's some lazy thinking that doesn't stand up to scrutiny, which is why I'm imagining you haven't had this discussion with a well-educated audience.
I want you to go check the percentages of the American populace who were smokers over the past century. I want you to do the same with drinking. In 1954, 45% of Americans smoked. That's 5 years before we landed on the moon. In 2018, that figure had dropped to 16%.
(https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/07/26/poll-u-s-smoking-…)
In 1954, essentially no Americans identified themselves as nonreligious. Today, that figure is closer to 20%.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx
In 1954, we invented the microwave. In 1955, the polio vaccine was discovered. In 1956, IMB released the first hard disk drive In 1957, Enovid--the first birth control--was approved by the FDA In 1958, the Boeing 707 becomes the world's first commercial jet liner. 1959: the integrated circuit was first created 1960: the pacemaker was invented 1961: cordless tools 1962: Telstar, the first communications satellite is launched 1963: Sketchpad, the precursor to all CAD programs was released 1964: Unmanned aerial vehicles are first used 1965: Kevlar is invented 1966: Dwarf rice increases worldwide crop yields by 20% 1967: The world's first coronary bypass is performed 1968: Integrated computer systems make their debut 1969: ARPANET, internet 0.0, is created 1970: Fiber optics are refined into usability 1971: Nike creates the first running shoes 1972: Electronic ignition switches are invented 1973: The MRI is invented 1974: The barcode is invented 1975: Scientists first start talking about 'global warming' 1976: The Cray-1, the first supercomputer is invented 1977: The first personal computers are sold 1978: The first GPS satellite is launched 1979: The Sony Walkman starts to miniaturize consumer tech 1980: Cobalt-oxide cathodes are invented for lithium ion batteries 1981: The first Scanning Tunneling Microscope allows for the creation of the field of nanotechnology 1982: Elk Cloner, the first computer virus, is created 1983: Microsoft Word is created 1984: Alec Jeffreys pioneers DNA Fingerprinting 1985: Polymerase Chain Reaction is discovered by Kary Mullis 1986: Eric Thomas creates the first listserv 1987: Prozac is approved by the FDA 1988: The first internet virus, the Morris worm, makes its debut 1989: The world wide web is created 1990: Photoshop hits the market 1991: Linux makes its debut 1992: IBM introduces SIMON, the world's first smart phone 1993: The first 0-emission fuel cell cars are created 1994: The RQ-1 predator drone has its first testflight 1995: HIV protease inhibitors are approved by the FDA--HIV is no longer a death sentence. 1996: The DVD is created 1997: The gas-electric hybrid Prius hits Japanese markets 1998: The first module for the international space station is launched 1999: Bluetooth 1.0 first enables wireless mass communications 2000: GPS goes mainstream and text messaging comes to the US 2001: Wikipedia is launched 2002: IEEE 802.16 creates wifi on steriods for whole metro areas 2003: The Human Genome Project is founded 2004: Facebook is founded 2005: Google Maps 2006: The Nintendo Wii sythesizes real a virtual worlds like never before 2007: iPhone invented 2008: Large Hadron Collider opens 2009: Bitcoin is created potentially moving humans to a digital future 2010: Siri 1.0 is created 2011: The Curiosity Rover lands on Mars 2012: Google launches its machine learning project 2013: CRISPR first used for gene editing 2014: The hemopurifier allows for the cleaning of blood to combat Ebola, hepatitis and cancer 2015: SpaceX works out the kinks with reusable rockets 2016: Oculus Rift mainstreams virtual reality
This list is far from complete and certainly not the best invention in every year, but we've come a long way. To imagine that technological progress has slowed in any way as a result of increased secularism simply isn't supported by the data. It's important to note as well that a huge portion of scientific and technological discoveries and advancements have been made by secularists. In fact, only about half of American scientists and less than 10% of the members of the National Academy of Sciences believe in God at all. You are able to scribble your drivel on this forum due largely to the inventions and advancements of agnostics and atheists.
As you can see, smoking has declined precipitously from its zenith while secularism rose from its nadir. American alcohol consumption peaked in 1830 at 7.1 gallons of ethanol per capita down to 2.3 gallons per capita today. Americans were all far, far more religious in the 1830s than they are today, but were essentially a bunch of alcoholics back in what I am guessing you (wrongly) imagine were the glory days of American virtue.
My point--just to hammer home the point--is that you don't know what you're talking about in the slightest. If you're going to say something inflammatory, you have to be able to back it up. Otherwise, you expose yourself as an ill-informed, poorly-educated simpleton.
Go read a bit, come back with a well thought out argument supported by data (your opinion is insufficient to hold sway), and I'll help you refine your point of view to something more defensible. I'd help make the argument for you if you had spent even the smallest amount of time considering what you wrote before you chose to evacuate the bowels of your mind on the internet.
This is why you don't send your kids to public school.
Can you summarise why you don't send your kids to public school in 3 sentences? Can't be bothered to read the entire passage.
"State school" Really? THIS is why people in finance have the elitist stereotype.
I strongly urge you to reconsider your position on public education and universities. After this defense of liberal thought it was a baffling turn toward the very inanity you sought to destroy.
Hey man while I agree with what you have said to a large degree you do sound a bit off a hard ass. I would assume a lot of people on WSO have rags to riches background (including the rich to "richer" who think life was hard for them). But my point is you can belittle the "Handmaid's Tale" speech guy above without making people feel bad about going to public schools or state colleges. For a lot of us it wasn't a choice we had. Public / private school doesn't really apply to me as I'm from another country and it works differently there but the point being as a debater attack the opponent and don't hate the crowd. you know...?
Come on man no need to bash state schools ): dont associate them with this idiot
big BYU guy
Look, forget the discussion on vaping. I'd like to smoke whatever the fuck you are smoking.
this man is why they are banning THC vapes
Damn bruh. You drinking that whacko koolaid hard
based and redpilled
A little ironic he's worried about vaping when he made money off casinos. I don't think either of the two are good things for society (would never ban either) but I do find it very funny he's going after vaping.
From what I understand its Melania really pushing it.
If she feels that strongly about vices why did she marry a guy who makes money off of a similar vice?
seems like a PR move. Don't think that she's actually driving the agenda.
Baron definitely got caught ripping on some mango pods in the Lincoln bedroom
100% agree with you about casinos. I was actually saying this the other day.
If by made money you mean bankrupted two casinos then yes he made money
I know some people who go on holiday and bring back packs of flavoured cigarettes (they're not sold in the UK). If they do ban the sale of flavoured pods in the US, surely you can do the same and bring them back when you go abroad? Or even order them online?
This is just another example of why I no longer am a republican. I just have no interest in moralistic or paternalistic policies (Christian Conservatives, Bloomberg, are known for these). Especially those focusing on the "think of the children" narrative. If the kids aren't vaping, they will just smoke cannabis, cigs, drink alcohol, etc. You can try to suppress vices until they are blue in the face it won't change a thing. Also I think childhood obesity is a much bigger issue but since it seems like there are more overweight people in America than healthy we have already normalized that.
Totally agree with you on child obesity! Also, agree people mix religion and politics WAY too much, and don't even realize how ridiculous it is.
Overweight kids won't be addressed because it is a slow moving problem. Politics cannot solve slow moving problems (like climate change). It's hard to show a photo of a fat kid without people saying there are numerous contributing factors or getting pissed for you messing with some kid's self esteem and "fat shaming". Nobody cares that this kid's lifespan will just shave off years and years at an accelerated rate, they care about following social norms.
Vaping for years has a direct effect on some people (collapsed lungs and whatever else they're seeing). It's easy to point the finger. Big bad vape company.
Harder to point the finger at complex social issues (like poor areas having a difficult time finding healthy food options), the amount of sugar in every single thing we consume, no regulations to keep kids from being fed Big Mac's 7 nights a week, etc.
LOL
I agree with your sentiment and I agree that is why they are going after vapes instead of obesity. It is also easier to see dramatic changes in peoples vice of choice that makes the person who banned it look great if it is presented properly.
Politics has nothing to do with science or logic. It is really a game of emotions. People get emotional about their children using vapes. Politicians see a spot they can look good and as you mentioned they can do so quickly. Politicians just need to read their email to see what it rubbing people the wrong way and if it is an easy target they will go after them.
No pun intended right?
I mean, strides are being made. Awareness that fast food and soda are really, really bad for you. Banning hydrogenated oils helps. An awareness and desire to bring fresh produce and other, healthier food options to food deserts. They may be little things, but they help. Some of that is government, and some is social change, but it happens. It's easy to forget it, but the research being done on these issues is funded in large part with government dollars, so while legislatively there may be little the government can do to solve major issues, there are other ways of moving the scale. It's one of the reasons that (mostly but not entirely) right wing attacks on science and fact-based policymaking is so harmful in the long run - proving the smoking is horrible for you, or that certain foods are objective awful for one's health, are some of the many ways in which scientific consensus has benefited society. As that trust is eroded, the ability of modern science to make helpful impacts on humanity erodes as well.
The issue with vaping and kids isn't the damn flavors. It's the fact that you can vape in your room without your parents even having a clue.
Back in the day when I was in high school, nearly everyone smoked and got busted by their parents at some point because we all reeked of tobacco. Then, you could have a conversation with your parents about it which was not all too pleasant. With vaping, it's much easier to get away with a serious habit in your high school years. Ok....I'm going back to my rocking chair you damn whipper snappers....
Everyone my age does it. What amazes me more is how much money people are okay wasting! If people spend money on weed they are going to get the benefits of THC, but what the heck is the point of nicotine?! Makes no sense to me.
In addition, it's not even cool anymore. People vaping look like dumbasses in my opinion. At least smoking real cigarettes made you look cool.
Nicotine makes me alert and wired. I usually take pouches/chew gum however.
Doubt a ban of this magnitude would actually passed. Sounds more like posturing from Trump’s side than anything else. If people are gonna be so reckless they get sick from vaping, idk if there’s a policy solution to such bizarre behavior.
What happens when the market for flavors moves underground? Does that increase the product's safety, or does it put people more at risk since the product is less regulated, there is no quality control, you can't easily sue a dealer, etc. This has nothing to do with children or safety.
I think the goal was to stop mass usage before children are hooked but it's already too late for that. And I agree! That will make it less safe since millions are already using it.
Historically speaking, pushing a regulated product underground tends to decrease prices slightly in the short run and overall decrease safety significantly.
I'd look at differences in recreational drug quality and prices between countries based on legislation (NL, Portugal for open examples). Contraband cigarettes is an obvious example as well, although the technology for traditional cigarettes is much more accessible than vaping pod technology.
I'm not a fan of this, but I get why Trump did this politically. He is probably not going to give in on guns since doing so would result in his base abandoning him in 2020. At the same time, he wants to give crumbs to the college-educated white suburban women who vote based on whether a President talks like Jed Bartlett and makes them feel warm and fuzzy inside. Given the wide usage amongst teens, this is a way to placate them, so they can STFU and vote based on actual policies.
Lots of mass companies have taken the initiative to reach out to him on gun laws and there is more publicity now than ever. WalMart, Walgreens, Banks etc. I wouldn't be surprised if something on this front was done. Probably not enough, but even something menial is expected. I definitely see your point of bringing this to focus instead though over the gun laws.
Do you think a single suburban mom is going to change her vote because Trump...banned vape pens? If anything, this probably moves a few thousand votes against him from Juul diehard 18-year olds. The amount of 3D political chess people continue to ascribe to Trump amazes me - he has no idea what he is doing.
Don't know for sure. But "soccer moms" are less ideological and care a lot about "mundane" issues that affect their kids. Bill Clinton introducing mandatory school uniforms back in 1996 is one example of this. Not saying that virulent anti-Trump voters will vote for him because of this, but it could have a marginal impact. Who knows.
Yes, Trump has NO idea what he is doing. That's why he is the 45th President of the United States who pulled off the most shocking upset in American political history. He is a total moron! I mean, anyone can get lucky and become POTUS!
I never understood vaping if you have never smoked but it seems more teens vape now than smoked when I was a younger. I thought the point of these was to get off cigarettes? I always ask my friends when do you wean off vaping?
I think middle schoolers and high schoolers think it looks cool (god knows why).
I picked up my friend one day and was driving (I was in the front seat with another friend and she was in the back). I had never seen a JUUL before, plus she never smoked cigarettes and randomly she blew out a bunch of smoke while I was driving. I yelled WTF WAS THAT!? I just saw a bunch of random smoke in the car and I was so confused.
It was such an addiction she didn't even think to ask to smoke in my car, or mention she was taking it out and blew smoke into the front seat. It has been 3 years and she is still addicted. To me it is just pointless.
went through 2 pods a day, its very addictive and i am so glad i stopped months ago. Don't want to drink nor vape until i get into IB. it is literally to fit in and use it as social lubricant ( not even kidding)
A lot of it i think is because smoke tricks were fun to do at parties
That was the mean reason i started smoking shisha. I don’t anymore but everyone i knew who vaped started because they were really easy to do smoke tricks with
Solid comment thread
I knew we cared about the Juul, I had no idea we cared THIS MUCH about the Juul! Lol
Party of limited government strikes again!
I'm cracking up thinking about all the MAGA frat vape bros hearing this news.
Vapes have killed 6 people, all of them on a black market version. Guns kill 40,000 Americans a year. Yet the GOP can't even muster enough courage to pass universal background checks.
That's because most gun deaths are suicides.
Second most are drug related.
Funny how you didn't identify any cause, just a symptom.
Unless of course you can explain how background checks will prevent these.
Fyi, they won't, see Asia for gunless suicides and Chicago for gun control.
Thanks for the monkey shit, i knew you couldn't come up with an actual response.
looking forward to you crying again on re-election day.
I have to admit I find it very surprising there are this many people advocating this is a good thing. Your FEELINGS about It shouldn’t override a person’s right to choose. I don’t like or do a lot of things, but I don’t think that puts me in a position to govern their actions. It’s government overreach, plain and simple.
Prohibition making a come back? 1920s--> alcohol ban 2020s----> JUUL ban?
I'm sensing major opportunity to bootleg mango juul pods here
JUUL Pod arb opportunity incoming?
I hear in Chicago people are paying $40-$55 dollars for a pack of mango pods.
Fact check: True. Hit the 7/11 at our Chicago office - 4 packs of Mint Pods are $39.99. I'm sure Mango and other flavors are near those levels.
70,000+ Americans die each year from opiod overdoses, but we're more concerned with mango pods? What an unbelievable fucking waste of attention and taxpayer dollars.
The opiod problem is beyond rational. Generally, people are prescribed these drugs for pain management. Unfortunately, then people start can slowly taper off it. People then start turning to other pills such as Oxys, Lean or Heroin to fullfill their addiction. The whole lawsuit with Johnson and Johnson is a complex mixed salad of opinions. Three drugs you should never touch, Opiods, Meth and Cocaine. 100% I recommend not using any drugs besides a pint of beer.
You mean crack, not cocaine.
Short whiteclaw before Johnny downs one at recess and kisses Jack instead of Jill.
lol this is gold
Dont get me wrong there is nothing better then a mint pod head rush and a cold beer..... but that shit is going to fucking kill us all.
Melania caught Barron vaping.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but flavored products can still be purchased through the Juul website. This ban will hit 3rd party vendors such as 7/11, gas stations etc.
Is that true? Would like some confirmation
If you check the website now, they still have all the flavors
Glad I live in London on this one!
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