Lawyer's had an awesome 2009!
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/02/0…
But who makes more, Lawyers, Doctors, or Bankers? I would say the rankings go:
Lawyer
Banker
Doctor
Lawyers just fly under the radar. Everyone knows they are more skummy than bankers. Why do bankers get the bad rep? Lawyer's had their best year in 2009. How dare they, while Main Street America is struggling! Oh wait, Obama doesn't want to tax their bonuses.
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You forgot Guido. The Situation makes more than any doctor, lawyer, or banker.
Your article says that "profit per partner" at large law firms in Boston averages 1.3-1.45 million.
Average compensation for managing directors/partners at top finance firms is substantially higher (probably around 3.5-4 million per year for BB bankers; probably around 8 million for managing directors at large private equity firms and hedge funds).
Doctors make at most 400k per year.
This is semi-true. If you are looking to make money as a doctor, then you can make double that. You think a major surgeon or even dermatologist makes 400k at max? I know a number of doctors that make +800k.
Where do they live? What kind of doctors? Do they reach that success by skills and having connections or skills and being over worked? I'm a college kid from a small town with big dreams.
Aaron Korsh on Bankers vs. Lawyers (Originally Posted: 08/09/2013)
This forum is going nuts about the Suits line. I just wanted to provide some more color:
Switching the jobs of the guys in the "Suits," he said, had less to do with likability than with practicality. "Look, investment bankers . . . they're below the rung of lawyers in the public's perception these days. So I think it's a tough hurdle to put on a show on about investment bankers. But the reason we redeveloped this from Wall Street to lawyers was actually because USA doesn't do purely serialized drama," he said. "It has to be like a case of the week. I believe it's their business model."
I think being a doctor is pretty sweet (no ever needs a banker in a emergency), but why you would want to be one in this country makes no sense to me. If you really want to help people, be a nurse. The prestige is nice, but med school is a fucking nightmare, residency is almost as bad, and the insurance companies ream your ass hole every chance they get. Nobody likes lawyers, they exist in spite of bankers and doctors. For the most part, if you don't go to a decent law school and get in the top 10% of your law class you'll never make partner at a good firm; then you'll just be chasing ambulances.
LOL drug dealers are below investment bankers in public perception, and breaking bad is doing just fine.
Juss sayin'
If you had to choose between suits and mad men, which would you watch?
Cash Cow. I think that sounds a little high. Managing Partner maybe, general partner no. I see you used probably to indicate that you are totally guessing but that is a little off. Also, as boutique banking said, doctors can make more than 400k. Many top surgeons make twice that and many doctors can also supplement their income by representing pharma or medical device companies or by patenting a device (can be huge $$$).
What do bankers have that doctors/lawyers don't? (Originally Posted: 05/15/2011)
Where do analyst, associates, vp's, and md's live? When I say this, I mean where can they afford to live? What cars can they afford to drive? At what age will bankers start to buy homes? Can they afford a home in the Hamptons? What can a banker afford to do during their free time that normal(average) salaried people cannot?The reason why I'm asking this is because im not motivated by anything and I know that if I do banking, I'll burn out quick if I'm not motivated by anything. These are the things I'm curious about and would have me working for a goal. I'll be going to Stanford next year and I'm having my doubts on whether I should do doanking for 2-3 years and move to PE/HF or stay at banking(if I get there).
Doctors aren't the same thing as lawyers, so it's really 2 questions.
What do bankers have that lawyers don't? Jobs. The legal market is terrible, debt and unemployment are huge problems for law school grads.
What do bankers have that doctors don't? High salaries with minimal effort in school compared to people who go on to become doctors. Doctors have to get excellent grades in tough classes and then go on to med school. If you want to be a banker, a ~3.7 in some gut business major is fine. Not to mention the fact that med school is expensive.
This question is a bit silly though. Don't spend your time at Stanford preparing for a dick measuring contest, you'll be disappointed.
How do you live?
Nothing motivates you, for serious?
no 7 year student debt
This argument is ridiculous. You are comparing an average doctor's salary to a managing partner at a bank LOLL.
A) I have a cousin who has his own dental (orthodontics) practice. He works at his practice 3 days a week (and every other Saturday) -- $700,000, and works for another guy for 2 days a week ($300,000 - not joking). He doesn't usually work more than a standard 8 hour day. -- makes a million annually. B) I have another cousin whose an Internist at a hospital. Works around 55-60 hours a week. Also makes around a million bucks annually. C) I know a friend of a friend, whose father makes $6-10 million a year, because they own a few cardiologists practices.
I know this because my dad is their Accountant lol.
Doctors make more money than any other profession, on average. Plus its a much more reputable job. Bankers who work in New York should have their salary adjusted for the cost of living factor for more comparable purposes.
You guys are talking about a VERY rare breed of doctors. Most doctors aren't high profile plastic surgeons/dermatologists. Even out of the plastic surgeons/dermatologists, very few have the business sense needed to make 400k+. The vast majority of docs are internists/GPs that work for a hospital and top out at around 150k (which isn't bad money btw). Even the ones that become anesthesiologists/orthopedic surgeons and all that will probably top out at around 350k. The ones you guys are talking about have EXTRAORDINARY business sense and certainly aren't the norm. Plus, they have gigantic opportunity costs/debt, so I'd wager that the average banker makes a good deal more than the average doctor.
Dude you are listing their starting salaries, which are nowhere close to "topping out". A General Family Practitioner makes $150-200k first year after residency, which is also what I consider their starting salary.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/moneymag/0910/gallery.bestjobs_high…
Conversation Over. Doctors ANNIHILATE the charts for top paying jobs. I'm serious! 8 of the first 10 jobs listed there are doctors.
I quoted averages, which are similar to starting salaries for a reason. Most doctors (again, excluding any that have incredible business sense or are in super competitive fields) will be limited by their salaries, which start high but don't have much room for growth. If you don't believe me, check out any med school forum/various blogs that can be found via a google search where docs are complaining about how they aren't getting compensated as much because of HMOs, the massive debt they have. All have a common theme of warning people not to go into it for the money.
Whoever made this list needs to be fired. My entire family on mother's side are doctors (from dentist to surgeons). My grandma always used to say, "Every anesthesiologist has a cemetery of his own," implying that sooner or later every anesthesiologist fucks up. The job is extremely stressful, and there is no way it should be 11th best place to work.
To become a doctor you need 4 years in undergrad + 4 years in med school + 3-5 years of residency. That's 10-12 years of schooling before having M.D. on your card. If student is very lucky, he/she will be MD by the age of 28-30 and will have A LOT of loans to pay off.
I dare any of you to try and go through residency. Same banking hours, more stress, longer program, 1/3 of a 1st year analyst all-in compensation. I think it's very disrespectful to even try and compare bankers, lawyers, and doctors.
P.S.: I loled at comment about Associates @ IBanking, "Most Investment Bankers have Bachelors (Finance or Accounting ), half MBA (from Ivy League Schools) and the most important thing a CFA which I hear is the comparible to taking the Bar or MCAT. Some are even CPA's which is just as hard to pass. Gruesome! Very competitive, long hours for entry associates who avg. only 35k base, and you better like numbers, formulas and Excel models." This just shows how little people know about banking.
I don't doubt at all that docs can make great money (and they have a good work/life balance in some practices like Orthodontists do, others may not). However, isn't this chart lumping starting IBD/S&T analysts into one pot along with the more senior people as "IBD career," "S&T career," etc? Most docs make so much money because of all the shit they go through but there isn't as much promotion going on since they start in their late 20s/early 30s if they're specialized, which leads to a high median. In contrast, all the first year 22 year old analysts in IBD who make around 100k or so are lumped in with all the MDs to give a skewed low average salary for "investment banker." You've also got MM people lumped in there. If you're comparing a 30 year old banker or trader at a BB to a 30 year old doc, my hunch is that the banker would win hands down.
Someone put this fucking retard out of his misery.
These types of threads are idiotic.
BigLaw.. BigShmaw rolf doctor? what kind of forum has WSO become
Worklife balance is for losers.. 120 hr weeks and M&B 'till i die suckaz@!@!
rankings:
Banker Banker Banker
Lawer/Doctor
That is about the dumbest post I have read here lol. If you are going to compare stats, at least have a legit control to compare them with. Based on that post, I bet your that guy who takes his Mac around and tells everyone Microsoft sucks. LOL
IM actually that asshat who knocks on your door at 8am on Saturday morning trying to sell you fixed rate for your gas bill
My sister is at Harvard Med, and she is not very optimistic about the prospects for making decent money.
The real question is - do you want to write? calculate figures in your head? or touch blood? What is your attitude toward risk?
The top earners in finance make much more (up to 100x and beyond) than the top earners in medicine. How many people in America with net worth over $1Bn are doctors? How many work in finance? Case closed. We can conclude that the potential for money is greater in finance.
If you're looking at average salary between doctors and finance professionals, clearly medicine will prove more lucrative. Contrary to what seems to be a general perception on this board, the field of finance isn't encompassed by Investment Banking/Private Equity/Hedge Funds. Bank tellers, accountants, small financial advisors, etc. all fall under the umbrella term of finance professional. These professionals constitute a much larger portion of the finance industry than senior level employees at bulge bracket investment banks or large-cap private equity firms, and they tend to earn less than doctors.
Thus, for any random individual, the probability of making over, say, $500,000 per year is probably significantly higher in the field of medicine than in finance.
However, most individuals who are more than smart enough to be doctors but choose instead to enter finance aren't looking to become regional managers at podunk banks in their hometowns. Most individuals who have a certain background (e.g., HYPS > GS/MS > TPG/KKR/BX > H/S/W > Greatness) probably have a sufficiently high probability of earning in the millions by their mid to late thirties that the expected lifetime compensation in finance far surpasses that of medicine. Consequently, if it is money that they value, then finance is certainly the more reasonable route.
Finally, while I'm quite sure finance is more lucrative than medicine for many of the individuals who frequent this board, I still have the utmost respect for the medical profession. Nevertheless, I find it quite despicable and distasteful when individuals enter the medical profession solely for the sake of financial reward (you know who you are). At least there generally are no pretenses among finance professionals about saving the world or working for the greater good. The medical profession is far more noble, and it deserves individuals who are capable of genuine compassion and care for their fellow human beings. It deserves individuals who would work in medicine even if it wasn't a high paying job. To the people on this board who try to make medicine more appealing by emphasizing the potential financial reward, I can only say that I think you are missing the point.
so much misinformation
Ill take 100k out of undergrad and 8 years of improving compensation over 150k out of med school, after residency...
In IB, you have about 8 years of earning potential before the other guy finishes his residency.
Should be higher than 100 out of undergrad for IB - base+sign on everywhere is 80 now
I was just showing the low end to compare to the low end of what doctors make. Even figure at a boutique or MM shop, the low end of the totem pole has to be around 100k.
Even 100-150k for 8 years while a med student will still be in school is pretty decent.
Comparing these 3 professions based on a dollar sum is probably the worst way to go about it. You don't become a doctor to make cash, you do it to help your fellow man. Maybe plastic surgeons are the exception to this rule, but when you factor in the cost, time and pain it takes to get that magical M.D. after your name the final compensation really doesn't measure up.
Bankers CAN make a lot of money, but not everyone does. When you factor in all the variables your starting salary isn't all that lucrative. If you stay in the game or go to great exit opportunities then you will make plenty of money.
Same deal with Lawyers.
I think what needs to be kept in mind is that all 3 professions are great if you want to live a productive and comfortable life. Pick the career you what based on what you like to do and you will make tons of money. Pick something for the cash and you will be miserable and probably won't make the money you think you will.
Agreed. There is never enough money in the world, and you will never be satisfied if money is your main objective.
Top surgeons can leave residency with a top salary of $700,000. If they are successful they have potential to earn max of $1-2mm a year.
Speaking solely about trading, ibanking, PE, and HF, there is much more earning potential. VPs in banking or trading can pull a buck a year easily. If you're good and become MD somewhere, which is the equivalent of being a top surgeon, $3+mm is the norm. This solely is my knowledge on trading and ibanking...payouts on the private side can definitely be much, much more.
well said
Is this f-king for real? Why would anyone sit down and actual compare these three professionals based on user-selected choices. This is so asinine.Anyone can manipulate the results to whatever floats their boat.
I don't why, but these articles/posts really annoy me. Each of these professions have very different career paths, external variables, perception (outside/inside), costs and benefits. The premise on this board that everyone is going to achieve MD at BB/PE/HF, Partner at BigLAW, Head Surgeon at Hospital and 3 successful private practices is retarded. There's a reason it's a pyramid with only a few on top.
News writer should do something more productive with their lives instead of envying others because their profession is dead/dying.
partner comp was up because all the firms cut a lot of staff and the partners took the pay. its harder than ever to obtain a biglaw gig out of ug and those that do usually quit within the first couple years. also a couple biglaw firms gave out 0 partner offers this year for the respective class. gg
most S&T/IB/Research analysts who are 23 will make $120-$140 at BB's this year. Anyone disagree with me there? Compare that to an MD.
Anyways its not about the money
Its about the bottles
Agreed.
Top job prospects for recent law school grads looks pretty grim. I'm one of the few people out of my group of friends that is currently not in law school. Most of the guys I know go to great schools and struggled just to land summer jobs let alone anything after they graduate. Unless you're in the top 15% of your class from a top 15 school forget about making $135k+ first year out.
Who knows where health care is going in the next several years. I certainly would not want to be a young doctor. Law has always been a fairly safe choice. The numbers quoted above for some of the partners pulling in 1.5MM are rare rare exceptions. You need to be way ahead of the talent curve in order to make that kind of money. There is a huge difference between an equity partner and a salaried partner which I don't think most people realize. Not many associates get the invite to become full equity partners.
How does the number of doctors compare to the number of lawyers and bankers in any given city (ignoring NYC, which will of course have more bankers than the average)? I feel like the number of doctors would be greater than the number of bankers and lawyers given that medicine covers such a broad spectrum of fields.
Wasvsdal you are an idiot. Please fucking stop quoting CNN Money.
First, your screen name is Washington vs. Dallas. Secondly, if you had any finance knowledge at all, you'd know how stupid your posts are.
Doctor: Graduating college at 21 +4 yrs med school (25) +2-3 yrs internship, residency, etc (28) +board certification, training, etc... (hitting the X amount of required surgeries/hours to specialize in your field, practice, etc...)
Now factor in the cost of med school, the amount of $ you lose out on during your internship and residency, and the fact that the income distribution is heavily skewed towards the $150-$250k side rather than the $1.5M+ side, and it's a wrap. By the time he's 28, a doctor is broke and has loans to pay back. By the time a banker is 28, he's a VP at either a hedge fund, private sponsor, or i-bank, in which case he's taking in at least $400k a year and has been doing so for the last 2-3 years with even greater prospects to come. And if not, then he's working 40 hours a wk for a large company and making $250k plus benefits and having a great time with his family. Oh, or working on what he fucking loves to do at a startup.
With that being said, I have utmost respect for all of these professions (well, except lawyers in certain instances). In the end, it never comes down to the $ but what you want to get from your job. I don't think you could truly be a good doctor without wanting to help your patients. And if you are only in it for the money, then you don't deserve to be there. There are tradeoffs that you could pose but if you're successful in any of the 3 you will be well-compensated.
Hmm, I would say finance has the highest earning potential.
Law and medicine is in the end limited to the billable hours or number of patients you can treat. In finance, it's about the asset base you manage, which has unlimited upside.
But i didn't consider quality of life etc. Also some doctors may go on to become CEOs after they develop a medical device or start their own hospital group.
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