Layoff Question
Was recently laid off as an Investment Banking Associate before receiving a year-end bonus. It's a boutique firm and the company had a good year (i.e. no need for layoffs). They claimed performance was the issue, but they did not provide any performance review or feedback all year. I was not fired for cause. Is there any case here for unlawful termination? The company is providing a severance package. Thanks in advance.
Firstly, sorry to hear that. You'll be able to brush off and get back on your feet. Although the feeling sucks, it's not the end of the world for you. Plenty of successful people have been fired/ let go before. Never fucking quit.
So here's my take as someone who is not an attorney:
NY (making an assumption here) is an "at will" state, meaning they don't need cause to fire you/ lay you off. The only time there is unlawful termination if you believe (and can prove) that is is because of prejudice against you and you fall into a protected class (gender, race, age, etc).
Try to see if you can say you're still employed there and then look for another role.
Is it common for banks/funds to allow you to say that you still work there after being let go (for non-cause reasons etc., including ones not due to performance where say a strategy is shut down and therefore no need to employees in that vertical etc.)?
I got let go along with my team when our LPs redeemed our specific funds Capital (while the broader firm was still standing), wondering if I can ask to say I’m still employed there
Bummer; usually if you accept a severance package, you sign away your rights to go after the employer.
OP here - I haven't signed anything yet that's why I'm asking. Yeah I figured I have no recourse as I can't prove any discrimination.
IB and high finance in general is a very small world. It's 100% not a good idea to file a lawsuit against a former employer. You were laid off, which sucks, and I agree it's pretty bad management not to provide feedback on a regular basis...but that really isn't worth pursuing legal action and the risk that comes with it.
Take the same mental time & energy and put it into finding a new job.
This is a blanket statement. If you have video evidence of your MD fondling your ass, you better file a lawsuit. If you think you have been unfairly terminated for prejudicial reasons, you should gather evidence and try to make a case. If you can't, then it doesn't sound worth it to file a lawsuit.
Yeah obviously sexual assault is pretty different. Is the upside worth it though for something like this?
You're in PE, and as you probably know...usually you'll have a handful of mutual connections with someone on LinkedIn. There's been more than once that I've asked a mutual friend/acquaintance about a potential hire and they said not to off the books, etc...
Plus lawsuits are a TON of energy. Even if he wins, the upside isn't really worth all the work and energy that goes into finding a lawyer, filing, etc...
It's not like OP got screwed out of $1M or something...
Agreed. Unless there was major foul play, it likely doesn’t make sense to sue.
The only reason I was being nitpicky is that there's a lot of young kids on this forum whomight interpret your statement as "suck it up, and take the abuse". I want to make it clear that if you're being seriously abused, absolutely say something. Wall Street has a hyper masculine culture that can be toxic.
I agree with above - it's a small street and any legal action you take can have repercussions down the line when recruiting again.
I personally know an Associate 3 who was up for VP promo get let go right before bonus and most people he talked to told him not to pursue legal action because layoffs happen all the time in banking and it will be a tough case to win.
What was the reason they gave for firing him?
Most of the time if you sue for being let go it's just going for the severance you were due. If you're getting severance, you don't really have damages to sue for.
I’m sorry this happened.
Unfortunately the law doesn’t recognize any difference between a firing and a layoff. There are only voluntary and involuntary terminations.
When you get severance you are signing a paper that says your termination was voluntary. You are agreeing that you quit, and they are giving you money to agree to that.
In addition to the money, another benefit of severance is that you are “employed” that whole time. You don’t need to tell other places you left. That can be pretty huge.
Never sue an employer unless it’s clear they discriminated against you for race, gender, religion. Lawsuits are public info and can easily ruin you permanently.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/pablo-escobar-of-eggs-faces-justic…
Been terminated several times. This is always your gut emotion. I'm sorry that happened, but that's life.
It's unreasonable and unrealistic. Just move on.
honestly, one does get used to it. Employment has become quite transactional. Companies are just machines, and if they need inputs, they buy inputs. And if they feel they need to cut, they do that. I think the stigma around losing one's job starts to wear off. Or maybe my mind is just getting calloused.
agree with all the above posts....the best thing you can do is ask to increase the length of your severance (from 3 months to 6 months for example)....because its easier to get a new job when you are still employed. Once you fully separate from a firm, you become a less desirable candidate. Even if it means less money per month....but more months of still being an "employee"....because it might take you 6+ months to find your next job.
Was laid off last year and I can tell from my background check report that your last date of employment is not the date when your severance runs out. My last day was June 15 and I was given 3 months severance. I got my severance money combined with the last paycheck in a week or so. Technically my severance was until Sept 15, but I just checked my background report and it shows my last date as June 15.
This was in the Retail Industry. Maybe it's different in the Finance Industry.
when i was layed off from a BB i was technically still an employee for 3 months, being paid my base salary and benefits (plus a bonus in my last paycheck)...but i had no access to firm resources (building pass, email, ect..). so, i was paid to sit at home and look for a job. each situation is different tho..
Well, this comes under the legal purview of "come and get me then."
Your contract is an at-will contract, so they can fire you for any reason or even no reason. I think if you'll check your employment letter, it will reflect that. As they have offered you a severance, you ought to take that. If you really feel it was an unfair termination, you can push a bit on the severance package, and let them know that you felt your performance ought to entitle you to a bit more, especially since you did complete out the calendar year, and that bonuses are the norm in this industry. I have seen quite a few folks negotiate better severances,if the bank feels like it's best off to part amicably. Given that you finished out the year, that may be particularly relevant. You ought to find yourself a champion (your manager?) to help you negotiate a bit more as you exit, and he/she can couch it as a way to help you soft land and to fuel your job search. Aside from that tho, no you absolutely cannot sue. First, have you priced a lawsuit in NYC? Get ready to shell out more than a year's salary. Second, this case would likely be dismissed out of hand given the at-will nature of the employment, and the fact that they can easily make the nebulous case that this was for performance reasons.
Don’t want to give you false hope but search FINRA arbitration for bonus disputes. There are issues with not paying a bonus with no poor performance feedback when the employee has been there until the bonus date - it’s contrary to conventional wisdom on WSO but there are issues with firing someone in the 11th hour right before >50% of their income is “expected”. Even if written discretionary.
I’m not saying sue, but in your severance negotiation you need intelligent leverage - that could be many creative things, just don’t go hostile and threatening. Think of what they want and how you can still be valuable to them somehow and what they don’t want you to do - do a “Has, Wants, and Fears” analysis for them and from your view.
Tell us more about the "Has, Wants and Fears" analysis
Mind me asking a question? I just got laid off, and company doesn’t want to pay bonus. My termination date (I think my bank F-ed up) is after my teams bonus payout date. I noticed my contract says that unless I have been terminated by that date my bonus is still do. What do I do? They said no to bonus even when I brought it up.
I suggest you say "You can't fire me! I quit!" and throw a chair through a window, rip off your shirt and storm out of the building.
Serious question - do you think you were a solid employee, regardless of lack of formal feedback?
It’s a pretty d!ck move to fire someone right before bonuses. It happens, but I’ve always seen it as a way that some firms say FU to an employee. Is that a possibility here? Bottom bucket used to be a signal to leave and firing before the bonus meant they were going after you...different at small firms vs BBs, I will acknowledge.
There’s a lot of petty people in this industry so keep that in mind.
Following up on the FINRA arbitration. Poster makes a point. If they had no performance issues with you so your are not being fired for cause and the firm had a good year and the fired you to avoid paying you a year end bonus and or to avoid having to promote you, theoretically you have a case in arbitration. I know several people who were fired to avoid paying them bonuses and went to arbitration and were awarded comp. However, the caveat is an associate the dollars are not going to be big enough and the other banks wont want to touch you. If you were an MD or a prop trader with a big P&L you won't get penalized as much in hiring for trying to collect what you were do in arbitration. I would speak to a good attorney who knows how to handle these things. There is potentially some wiggle room in your severance package.
I'm guessing your performance was not up to par, and I'm also guessing that you were not paid what you wanted last year. So, writing was most likely on the wall. If they had a good year and you were a star employee, why in god's name would they lay you off. Feels like you should probably look in the mirror and do a self-assessment. Also, is this severence package $5k or $90K. If it is $5k, you should be upset. If it is the latter, you ought to be grateful, as I'm pretty sure they don't owe you anything. Also, pretty sure you'd never work on Wall Street ever again if you cried here. My advice, move on. Life is too short and this is a learning experience. If you are truly a great banker, you'll get picked up elsewhere and make dozens of millions and that will be the best retribution. Go succeed.
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