Linkedin research on Tier 2 US mbas
So I've been looking up a lot of random profiles on LinkedIn and the conclusions are
- Top 10 MBA school kids nearly all have great career outcomes.
The lowest ranked school which provides decent BB opportunities to most of its graduates who are willing is NYU.
The lowest ranked school that provides BB IBD opportunities to at least a few of its graduates is Georgetown.
For MBB, don't go below T10. Sure you could break into Bain or BCG from a t20-25 but you'd need to be an exceptional candidate.
The career outcome for the average t20-25 MBA is pretty ordinary- they may very well have achieved the same results minus the MBA.
Who the fuck wants to be a fucking revenue analyst at Staples after studying for 2 years and dropping 150k?
This might be obvious to most, but I'm seriously thinking of just studying a STEM degree from a top 3 Cali school and then networking like my life depended on it.
Revenue analyst at Staples- fucking joke of an outcome. These are not isolated outcomes- tier 2 MBAs who are average seem to get results like this.
Views, am I being too pessimistic?
I think your conclusions are generally reasonable. The top 10 schools are clearly worthwhile for almost anyone, especially with regard to MBB. Banking is much easier to get into outside of the top 10.
However, it's deceptive to simply look at a few students from a given school and draw conclusions on the program (talking about the tier 2-type schools here). Keep in mind that a T25 school might be someone's full-ride option, whereas the student next to them in class might have considered the program a reach. For the latter student, that Staples job might be a huge leap up from being an elementary school counselor. The former student is probably one of the few from that T25 program going into a really solid post-MBA job. In short, the median career placement at a program is the right benchmark only if you'd be a median student there - the top students will get top jobs and the worse students will struggle.
Not sure of your specific career goals, but I'm a big believer of going to the cheapest program that gets you to your goals. If the STEM degree is likely to do it, go for it. Full disclosure, I chased the full-ride money and got the job I wanted over some other applicants from MBA business schools ">M7 programs - MBA programs are what you make of them. Hope that helps!
Thanks for the reply.
Your reply reeks of intelligence.
I'm a high GMAT scorer -think above 740, with a good GpA, yet I only managed to obtain a t20-25 outcome.
Any further knowledge would be appreciated.
I have personal reasons inhibiting me from perhaps applying again next year.
Please clarify: full ride at an MBA? If so, rough indication of rank of program and outcome please?
Similar profile to you - 740 GMAT, good UG GPA at a semi-target. Work experience is a big factor - not sure how many years you have, but 4 solid years and a good story for getting an MBA are the other missing pieces. Yes, full ride at an MBA program ranked 20-25. I had two internships after my first year (4 weeks at a PE firm and 9 weeks at a MM IB). I turned down the return IB offer and accepted a general management role at a retail/e-commerce company.
Hope that helps. Feel free to PM.
Full ride. Seriously though a Full ride vs 150 k in fees, what a huge difference. I need to PM you, thanks for your wise words. Just spent another 1 hour searching linked in until the point that my free search credits have run out.
Results:
There are a few smart kids in T25s what they are doing there is just a mystery, they often went to target undergrads too- not all of these kids have scholarships though , which is even more confounding, wtf?!
Most t25 kids are just meh
Man this whole system is fucked.
Saw a couple of profiles of people enrolled into HBS, who just happened to have had a good career move two years before applying to HBS, everything else in their profile was akin to all the other t25 kids > timing and momentum with b school apps is key
The difference in post mba career outcomes is too fucking much.
There's a big ol' grey area in between 10 and 20 that's filled with schools that produce both types of career outcomes, as you've described them. That's the region where firms start to make decisions about cutting off on-campus recruiting.
As with most things in life, YMMV.
Makes sense. My school is t20-25, perhaps employers have more definitive and dissmissive views about the Kids from such programs, barring full riders and top grade scorers.
This leads me to another q. If as a result of my frustration for being admitted to a lower ranked school and that too without cash , i study well and place myself in the top 5 to 10 % of the program then would I get T10-20 like mba interviews?
Maybe. Depends on the school, depends on the interviews you're trying to get. Some companies spend more time reviewing their off-campus resume submissions than others. Some companies care about your academic performance in business school, some (most) do not.
Financing aside, are you better off being the standout student at a 20-25 school or a 3rd quartile student at a M7?
I figure the MBA business schools ">M7 will get you in front of a lot more employers right and then it's a case of networking and interview preparation.
MBA business schools ">M7 easily in that scenario
MBA business schools ">M7 cause 1) certain opportunities are basically exclusive to these schools and 2) the middle, probably, 50-80% of the distribution will be tight.
What type of job would you expect someone who's likely median or below at a 25th ranked school to obtain? Top performers will do well regardless of where they went to school; they're the ones whom recruiters will throw a bone at schools that aren't necessarily targets.
Also, keep in mind that the majority of IB and MBB folks are done within 2 years, anyway-either by choice or virtue of washing out. Most just go the corporate route after that. Someone who knows they're going corporate may not be interested in that middle step of IB and MBB, and will pick a school accordingly.
TL;DR you end up where you belong.
Good post. So performance matters. If I place in the top 10% of my t20-25 school will this help me compete against t10-20 kids?
Not necessarily, because you'd still need the type of resume (undergrad, WE, GMAT) that helps you stand out.
your incoming stats > b-school performance, less ability to network.
You should be coming in with stats noticeably above your class' medians
@dmw86" TheGrind
I normally don't like asking hypothetical questions, but since we have two of the more sensible WSO posters involved in this thread I'm going to make an exception.
Let's say I want to get into MBB post MBA, but it would not kill me if I had to work in a Corporate Rotational at a F500 company.
I get into Columbia (no$), Ross (Half Tuition) and Goizeuta (Full tuition) and debt is a huge concern to me because of my family situation/life stage. I am fairly confident in my ability to be at the Top 10% of my Emory class, had excellent GPA/GMAT and 4 years of FLDP experience at a F100 company.
Wouldn't choosing Emory be the sensible thing to do in this situation. I mean there's a small chance that I could get into a Southern office for this MBB or if not work for Coke/Home Depot - whatever's in Atlanta.
Your thoughts?
I can't say I'm immune to flattery.
I'd have to agree with you here. You've laid out a pretty defining set of assumptions (very low tolerance for debt, flexibility with career aspirations, confidence in work experience) that guide the decision tree pretty clearly.
I would bet that assuming you do the requisite legwork of networking and not being a weirdo, you'll have the chance to interview for MBB (regardless of where you go to school), and then it's anybody's guess what happens from there. I think going to Columbia over Emory gives you an advantage in preparing for interviews, since your peer group will be a bigger proportion of the class, and there are probably more slots available for Columbia students than Emory students, although everyone at every MBB in any official capacity will tell you that's not the case.
If you can envision a world where MBB means enough to you that you'd pay the tuition difference in order to gain the above advantage, then you should go to Columbia, all other things equal (which they rarely are). If not, then I think you pick Emory.
Don't go to Ross. For you, it's an awkward middle ground between your options, and not in a "best of both worlds" kind of way. Either spend the money and maximize your MBB odds, or get the full ride and network in Atlanta.
he should definitely go ross. Solid MBB placement, better career outcomes, better known school in general, and half his tuition is paid, and he would get to watch 2 years of solid college football.
I'd choose Michigan in this instance. Columbia w/ no aid and that cost of living would be a non-starter given your aversion to debt.
Michigan works simply because there are way more slots available for MBB there. Now if your dream is McKinsey Atlanta and you've got the stats/pedigree coming in they'd like, then you MAY try Gouizeta but just know it's a STEEP climb from there. Because if there are just 6-7 more people in your class like you (or better) that's your ballgame. And again, your b-school performance matters much less than your incoming stats.
At least at Ross you'd cut into your debt, and if you get MBB, perfect. If you don't, any F500 rotational gig or tech job will pay you enough of a signing bonus and salary to cut a good chunk into your remaining debt. And Ann Arbor is awesome.
Looks like the difference here is in how much you think your MBB chances improve at Ross vs Goizueta. I think it's a marginal improvement at best, hence why I didn't think it's worth any debt to go there. TheGrind seems to think it's enough of an improvement that it's worth it.
I think as soon as you get outside the top 6 or 7, it gets meaningfully harder, and then outside the top 15 or so it gets harder again. Part of why it gets harder is that the people (in aggregate) decrease in quality, so it's a self-perpetuating cycle; but on top of that, your resources for preparing decline too. Casing with strong casers matters, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Ultimately it comes down to your appetite for risk and debt, but I still don't think there's a scenario where Ross makes sense for you.
Also, counterpoint: Ann Arbor sucks, because it's cold, and cold places suck.
If It was me, and I only got into a top 20-30 program, minus a few schools such as UT and Emory, I wouldn't even focus on finance. i would focus on getting into something like tier 2 consulting or some sales and marketing role. I don't know why finance people outside of the top 10 even chose to go into corporate finance as a career. Do you really want to be the CFO? You will always be number 2, and the sales guys basically wined and dined their way to the top by making major deals on the golf course and sealed it with a lap dance and over priced scotch.... while you were crunching numbers.
Some great information and thought out views on this thread. Thanks guys.
the only reason banking makes so much money in the first place is that it's a sales job at the end of days. More deals= bigger bonuses. you are gonna be an mba graduate, focus on being the front office of whatever field you go into.
At the 2 F100's I have been in, it is very much possible to switch from Finance to the "Business", i.e. own PnL.
Why not go directly into it? Seems like a smarter route/ less mundane on the day to day. I would feel like shit personally, going through day to day working 8-6, no opportunity to tie my compensation to my results.
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