MBA or Master in Management

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I don't plan to apply to Ms in Management Programs, but it seems like this type of program is getting hotter....

UMich Ross, Duke Fuqua, UVa McIntire, Northwestern Kellogg and a few others are offering this degree to mostly non-business undergrads. Even I got postcards from one of the MiM programs...but I have a business undergrad~

How would someone from the MiM program apply to MBA a few years down the road?? I thought it'd be more difficult for them to apply MBA than MFin/MAcc graduates. Don't they already have the same classes like MBA students will have?

Comments (23)

May 6, 2015

Schools say that MiMs go on to do MBAs later pretty regularly. I would think that they have to, strategically establish the way of getting both degrees in order to "double dip" with tuition/putting their stamp on people/gaining influence. You would have to have to tell them about a why you need an mba, but you should be able to do so easily.

As a business ugrad, I would only consider an MiM, if you cannot get your hands on a Job you like right now, as it will probably not advance you a great deal intellectually. (providing you went to a decent ugrad program. If you went to non-us institution it also has its merits in finding a job in the states and profiting from the different educational approach.

May 6, 2015

Hey, you have a point exactly, "why do you need an MBA?"

I think I would find it hard to even answer this question with BBA.
How would anyone with a BBA and MiM answer the whys for MBA? That'd be the 3rd refresh of business fundamentals.

I can see that non-Biz bachelor degree holders would have it easier, but having a MiM just makes MBA a harder thing to persuade AdCom.... isn't that reasonable

May 6, 2015

My impression of the MiM degree is that it's basically a scam. The schools that offer it see an opportunity to generate significant revenue by creating a pseudo degree without incurring any additional costs. MiM students attend MBA courses but don't have access to MBA OCR. They are not taught tangible, technical skills and therefore are at a disadvantage when trying to break into finance (which is why their finance placements are very weak). Their placements in general are weak and the programs are very expensive. The curriculum simply isn't valuable for someone trying to break into an industry with limited relevant experience though the name brand (which is what they're essentially selling) carries some weight.

My general point though is that the MiM does not compete with the MBA.

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May 6, 2015

The MiM isn't for going into banking, it's more designed for students with a non-business background to get into a business-related field.

For example, one of the students I met at Duke's admitted students weekend was a film major at NYU prior to the MiM, and is now working telecommunications consulting for Accenture. Business majors with finance backgrounds have made it into banking careers, but utilize the network more than OCR.

Edit: Will disagree with Esuric on it being a scam though. Placement reports at top programs are pretty solid and include MBB, BB Banks, 'cool' companies (Google, Apple, Tesla), and tons of F500 companies. There are maybe 2-3 US MSF programs with placements that are that national, despite being more finance focused. I would argue working a decent middle office spot at JPM or GS in NYC would benefit you more than a front office role at a tiny local boutique in a small market.

Best Response
May 6, 2015

MiM degrees are best for someone without a business background or someone looking for a more general placement. MSF degrees are great, but if you struggle in the program because you don't have the foundation it isn't going to help.

And Duke has good placements. They are slightly watered down because of how big the class is. ND has done well in their first year as has Michigan. I'm sure Northwestern will be good as well.

If you do a MiM I'd encourage you to do an MBA in something more specialized since you'll already have the management background. A degree is what you make of it at the end of the day.

May 6, 2015

Essentially I feel that a MiM on top of BBA is letting the MiM school brand glow, but otherwise wasting a year worth of time to study the BBA fundamentals. does that sound right? (I wouldn't imagine Wharton BSEcon grads taking a MiM just for a second alumni network...)

May 6, 2015

So let's look at Duke's employment report. There's a pretty even split between Accenture type of placements and 'Zitter Health Insights' type of placements. In general, huge variation. 73% employed 3 months after graduation with a median base salary of $62,500. Those figures, though not terrible, aren't stellar (considering that only 81% reported. I'm assuming that the 19% that didn't report had annual salaries below the median). Finally, 16% ended up in "other functions" which seems to mean "are employed in areas unrelated to our degree or to business in general."

This is not what you would expect from an institution like Duke (a powerhouse). Duke could basically just sell their degree with their name on it, not offer any classes, and have similar placement statistics.

May 6, 2015

I think this is a "scam" to a sense that.... if you're not yet enough for an MBA, here is a quick way--MiM.
But most early career candidates will do MiM with the impression that they can get MBA later. Actually, lots of UG even do a MBA at the same school right after undergrad.

What I personally felt was that I'm selling my future with MiM, because I may save a few years of grinding that typical pre-MBA students have, but I'd have a harder sell for MBA application

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May 6, 2015
Esuric:

So let's look at Duke's employment report. There's a pretty even split between Accenture type of placements and 'Zitter Health Insights' type of placements. In general, huge variation. 73% employed 3 months after graduation with a median base salary of $62,500. Those figures, though not terrible, aren't stellar (considering that only 81% reported. I'm assuming that the 19% that didn't report had annual salaries below the median). Finally, 16% ended up in "other functions" which seems to mean "are employed in areas unrelated to our degree or to business in general."

This is not what you would expect from an institution like Duke (a powerhouse). Duke could basically just sell their degree with their name on it, not offer any classes, and have similar placement statistics.

Sure, but besides MIT I don't really think that there's a program out there that's placing 50% of their students in BB and F500s. When you look at other top programs (Vandy, WUSTL, CMC) it's a ton of boutiques and a couple of BBs.

Obviously the program isn't going to hand you the job (which is why only so many of the students get them) but there are doors open by being at Duke that aren't open at other top schools. MMS students have access to most undergraduate recruiting events, which alone provides pretty solid opportunities for those who are prepared for it. From what I understand, most students coming in are not prepared for banking/consulting recruiting season which hurts placements.

May 7, 2015
bashfulpanda:

"Esuric" wrote:So let's look at Duke's employment report. There's a pretty even split between Accenture type of placements and 'Zitter Health Insights' type of placements. In general, huge variation. 73% employed 3 months after graduation with a median base salary of $62,500. Those figures, though not terrible, aren't stellar (considering that only 81% reported. I'm assuming that the 19% that didn't report had annual salaries below the median). Finally, 16% ended up in "other functions" which seems to mean "are employed in areas unrelated to our degree or to business in general."
This is not what you would expect from an institution like Duke (a powerhouse). Duke could basically just sell their degree with their name on it, not offer any classes, and have similar placement statistics.

Sure, but besides MIT I don't really think that there's a program out there that's placing 50% of their students in BB and F500s. When you look at other top programs (Vandy, WUSTL, CMC) it's a ton of boutiques and a couple of BBs.

Obviously the program isn't going to hand you the job (which is why only so many of the students get them) but there are doors open by being at Duke that aren't open at other top schools. MMS students have access to most undergraduate recruiting events, which alone provides pretty solid opportunities for those who are prepared for it. From what I understand, most students coming in are not prepared for banking/consulting recruiting season which hurts placements.

I thought we just talking about MiM/MMS/MS in Management here? I assume that you're referring to MIT MFin and not MSMS (which is an optional bundle for foreign MBAs instead of a pre-work loop of business fundamentals)

May 7, 2015

replied on your last post~

May 6, 2015

Dukes placements are hurt because of a large international contingent. When you look at it in that light it is pretty good. Also factor in the fact that students go into these programs without jobs and you can see why placements three months out isn't always the best metric.

@shuang19" all depends on the student. Maybe someone wasn't as serious during their UG studies and now they want to really learn. The Duke name helps as well.

I do think the increased competition will force Duke to improve and innovate.

May 6, 2015

I feel that the MiM is really in a beginning stage in the US. It is a very established degree in Europe and the same way Europe has been adapting the MBA more and more (not on the same level as in the US with very few exceptions) the US will adapt the MiM programs (with limited success in the beginning as you guys say).

The future will see both degrees established in both the US and Europe. ( I have no idea what happens with asian b-schools in the future). Right now the market in the US seems to be, that the MiM is geared towards students with little to no business experience (in terms of undergrad degree). I think this will change over time and with that the curriculum and placement opportunities will change. A school like LBS for example takes 50-70% business/finance/economics students and mixes exceptional "others" in the cohort. This will probably be the model in the future for Schools in the US.

A 1-year degree to teach you everything you need to now about business + soft skills + networking is a bit of a stretch, so I do understand the negative feedback on the US MiM.

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May 7, 2015

Shuang asking a question instead of answering it. I'm speechless.

May 8, 2015

The MiM are much better brand name schools than the MSFs, which is why they're tempting for a non-target.

But, if your goal is IB (top goal=BB/EB IB), then do you really think a general MiM will give you a better shot than an MSF?

Placement stats are incredible at Princeton, MIT, CMC, and then seem to really decline significantly after that. Not to mention that Princeton/MIT are almost as quantitative as the top MFEs like Columbia/Carnegie, and significantly more difficult to get into than even the best MiM.

It is reasonable to think an MiM will be beneficial when you consider that bankers probably check brand name first, and the extra MSF finance skills really arent needed for most of the work that an IB analyst does.

I guess the real question is, if the best MSF you can get into is WUSTL, Vandy, Nova etc. then would it be better to just do a Duke MiM for IB?

Just checked placement stats at Duke, don't look too great for IB but who even knows how many kids wanted it

May 9, 2015
theebreadwinner:

The MiM are much better brand name schools than the MSFs, which is why they're tempting for a non-target.

But, if your goal is IB (top goal=BB/EB IB), then do you really think a general MiM will give you a better shot than an MSF?

Placement stats are incredible at Princeton, MIT, CMC, and then seem to really decline significantly after that. Not to mention that Princeton/MIT are almost as quantitative as the top MFEs like Columbia/Carnegie, and significantly more difficult to get into than even the best MiM.

It is reasonable to think an MiM will be beneficial when you consider that bankers probably check brand name first, and the extra MSF finance skills really arent needed for most of the work that an IB analyst does.

I guess the real question is, if the best MSF you can get into is WUSTL, Vandy, Nova etc. then would it be better to just do a Duke MiM for IB?

Just checked placement stats at Duke, don't look too great for IB but who even knows how many kids wanted it

Do some searching; all of your questions have been answered a few times in previous threads.

Jul 31, 2015

Well i am a student at ESCP which is a well respected business school in Europe and i am doing my Masters in Management degree from there. I was going through this thread and was really surprised at some of the comments made, MiM may be still in its early growth stage, as compared to the MBA but it really is not a scam.
It is growing in popularity exponentially as more and more people see it as an early alternative to the MBA (yes an alternative, not a pre-cursor) . MBA is an amazing degree and has its merits but there are a lot of young people who don't want to work for 4-5 years at an uninteresting job and then make a shot for the MBA. The MiM gives a good alternative via which students can improve their profile and get into really top notch firms, we have students who get placed in top companies in literally all sectors. Now the placements depends on the popularity of the school, but i can firmly say that all top schools (top 20) have really good placement records.
Also some people said that MiM is a way for non business Under graduates to get into the business field, well that is totally true( i myself was an engineer when i applied) BUT more than 50% of the batch is composed of business school graduates who are just looking to get a leg up in their career or trying to profit from the career services and get into a better company or field.
I hope i was able to make an argument and lastly, after my MiM i most definitely wont go an do a MBA, as i feel i have developed most of the business acumen here. But yes maybe an executive MBA after 8-9 years would be a better choice.

Abhyank Srinet
Founder at www.MiM-Essay.com

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Jul 31, 2015

there isn't a shortcut in business school classrooms that will get over uninteresting jobs. Period. Even those highly paid MBB/BB jobs have crazy hours.

Jan 29, 2019
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