Negative Connotation?
It depends on who you talk to, but I have noticed that IB is often looked down upon as " Selling your Soul" etc. Could somebody shed some light on why this is.
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Trading all your free time to make money and the chance to make more money later on. People who say that either don't believe IB is worth the personal sacrifices and/or aren't up for it themselves.
Because you work 100 hours per week and sometimes more. You don't sleep for two straight days and smell like crap because you haven't showered or brushed your teeth. You eat dinner at your desk and often work weekends.
Is that enoough for to qualify for giving up your life....I think so.
It's not that hard to figure out. Read these forums for less than a day and you'll know that to succeed you must be DEDICATED.
I think that it's more like draining the life out of you than selling your soul. it's not like you're egtting the job unfairly, it's just the definition of overworking.
Okay Roller, I know you have to be dedicated, but why is that looked down upon in this field, in comparison to medical school etc
I think it's mainly because you are ultimately pursuing your own self-interest choosing a career in investment banking while if you choose to go to medical school it's likely that you want to help people in the long run.
None of them say anything about wanting to "help people" factoring into the decision making, although I'm sure they don't mind that being a nice side effect.
You're probably right, but we're talking about the perceptions of other people here rather than each individual's main objective. Maybe it's true that both an aspiring doctor and an aspiring investment banker are in it for the ideas of a stable career and good money, but at the end of the day if there are two individuals, one unmarried doctor and one unmarried investment banker, most people will view the latter as mainly self-interested, I think.
helping people solve their financial problems and decide how much they should pay to buy some company is don't you think a bit less of self-devotion to society than becoming a doctor and helping someone live or curing aids or cancer.
Then don't even think about doing it.
the fact that you asked this question means you don't have what it takes.
Of course we sell our soul, but we take a certain (bizarre and inexplicable) pride in it. If that twisted appreciation is not inherent in you, then consider something else.
"Of course we sell our soul, but we take a certain (bizarre and inexplicable) pride in it. If that twisted appreciation is not inherent in you, then consider something else."
The fact is Kirilov, that I do have that " twisted appreciation" for it. That is why I'm even on this site. I only asked the question because I was curious about the origin of this "negative connotation". I don't think that me asking the question has a single damn thing to do with me having or not having what it takes. Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions.
Banking doesn't involve sovling world hunger or teaching little children to read, curing cancer, saving the rainforest, or anything else that makes people feel idealistic about changing the world and "making a difference." In banking, we are essentially making rich people richer while maximizing their tax efficiency. Basically, we allow big corporations to make insane ammounts of money and advise them on the best structure to use in order to keep the largest amount of it and invest it to make more. Consider who we are not helping make money- the single mother who can hardly afford groceries, let alone any extra money to invest.
Banking is a luxury that benefits the most those who already have money-- that is why bankers "have no soul."
Here's the fallacy in that comment. The Western world's standard of living is what it is because of the economic system we make possible. What would that single mother's life be like in Mozambique, Peru or Russia? Better or worse?
I'm a social liberal, but I believe that Wal-Mart has done more for poor people than Bill CLinton ever could. Aforementioned poor woman can afford a better life for her kids, because we made Wal-Mart possible.
I'm a big believer in social justice, but I'm always perplexed by what we consider "helping the world".
Everybody loves doctors, for example. However, I think they are as a group far more distasteful, status conscious and money oriented than bankers. Just try taking away their white lab coats and the prestige they confer and listen to the ensuing angst, gnashing of teeth, wailing and screaming (despite the fact that all studies show that since they never get washed, those lab coats highly unsanitary and actually dangerous for patients).
how the fuck is it that you, obviously refering to bankers, made wal mart possible. you are overpaid. your job requires very little intelligence. a high school graduate could do your job. your work week should be 50hrs and your pay should be 50k/year.
Hehe, well, in the spirit of full disclosure, my wife is a doctor and those statements mostly reflect her views on doctors.
Given that I married one, I don't mind doctors too much individually :). I don't think they're better people as a group than bankers, though.
One of the things that's made our relationship work as well as it has for the early part of my career was that her hours were as bad as mine. Nowadays, my hours are considerably better than hers.
The compensation question skews clearly in favor of my job. She's just finished her residency, and you know how badly they're paid for their time. I'm now a senior vice president/director level banker and have had the good fortune to be ranked at the top of my class since I started out in banking, so our pay scales are like night and day.
The thing about comp at my level is that it's highly variable, much more so than for analysts, associates and VPs. A bad year can pay you on par with very good associates. I know that I got paid well north of what a number of managing directors received.
I don't regret at all not going into medicine. I met my wife when we were both aspiring pre-meds, and I very much could have gone down that path. Instead, I spent the next few years exchanging gunfire with various foreigners while she added to the number of impressive degrees she had. By the time I came back, I had no desire to be an orthopaedic surgeon anymore.
Others here may tell you that no one does this job because they like it. Most don't, but what you'll find is that banking is a place where you'll find some surprisingly diverse people. I had the chance to leave banking during the dot-com time (when most of my friends were getting a lot richer than I was), to go to some pretty stellar buyout shops and hedge funds, and to do something altogether different after I went back to b-school.
Instead, I came back to banking because this is what I really like - M&A.
Life is full of choices, and sometimes you're better off not listening to what others think is best or more highly ranked. I turned down Yale, Harvard, and Stanford law school to suffer cold and hunger in some pretty god-forsaken places that I really thought I wouldn't make it out of. Looking back on it, I would make that decision again every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
who gives a shit how we all feel, we are in it to make money. Money talks and bullshit walks. Lets stop trying get all intelluctual
there are special operations soldiers dying the 3rd world countries to provide your freedom to make 1mm/year. we never know what they do or who they are. if i ever get into ib ill work hard to bilk every dime out of the i-bank i can, and subsequently donate all i can. think about it. what has goldmans ceo done to justify the 55mm? look at the guy. he is a fat little shit.
obviously they sought financing. so what? the investment bankers got them their financing. that is hardly "making" wal mart
It took financing to get the capital for Sam Walton to build the first store. Financing was needed for them to expand into a national chain. Then an international chain.
Without capital and having access to the financial markets, Wal-Mart would be still be "Walton's Five and Dime" in Arkansas, as opposed to a $300+ billion dollar company that is able to offer "everyday low prices" to some single mom in Anchorage.
Companies as small as startups and as large as Wal-Mart need capital to survive and expand. Investment Bankers provide them access to said capital.
ooohhhh, revolutionary. really good. they need capital. no shit. humans need water.
Found a piece that should help drive across the point:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3103waltons.htmlLet's be honest here, noone's more greedy, status -conscious and money-oriented than bankers. Even though my experience is limited to two summers, I've met enough people to see that Bankers are a highly insecure lot.
And as for the other guy's comment, I don't have that "twisted appreciation" you speak of, All I'm here for is to get that cheddar. I don't have the patience to be part of a profession that is monotonous and adds zero value to society, even if it pays well.I can handle either of those things alone but together, that's a deal breaker for me.
great quote. lets face it, nobody likes ibanking. sure, us hopefuls like the money and perks, but we dont appreciate the investment banking profession as we appreciate the medical or teaching professions. we in it to get rich. some of us might be greedy bastards and buy everything for ourselves, others may donate quite generiously. the individual that says he inherently enjoys finance for what it is, is a fuck. we may love the status, money, perks...but we hate the bread and butter.
You'd better believe that if a company could find a way to commoditize and sell the air we breathe, someone would be making a shit load of money off of it too. Water is a good example- in India (and many other parts of the world) Coca Cola is cheaper than water. We are all in a privileged position to have clean water pour out of the faucet every time we turn it on. Sure, everybody NEEDS water, but not everyone has the RIGHT to it or can afford it- especially when there is a huge profit potential involved. That is sort of the essence of globalization, which we all understand best on Wall Street- life is profit. With that said, I work in this industry too and am glad to b one of the lucky ones benefiting from global capitalism. It is pretty hard to live your "save the world" ideals without a trust fund, and none of us could afford to live in NY on a non-profit salary (let alone earn enough to pay student loans for that liberal-arts education where we were indoctrinated with the concept that we as individuals can "make a difference").
I don't think any of this is good or bad- just simply the nature of society. Even if I was out living in a hippy commune not polluting the planet, someone else would be doing my job on Wall St, and personally, I'd like to be the one here making some money.
What was the point of that incoherent rant ^^?
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