Options Post Banking @ Junior VP Level?
Been in banking since I was an analyst (at a BB), now at an EB. Spent a year doing something else but pay wasn't great and hated the culture so went back to banking as a reset. The money has been great at the EB, and have gotten great M&A experience without getting destroyed, but Im quickly reaching the end of the line and its getting hard to get out of bed as while the hours aren't bad, they aren't great either and working weekends is beginning to hurt my soul. As I begin my VP career, figure its a good time to leave. I'm racking my brains but what are some exit options here and where do I begin to look...
I'm not fond of PE as that feels like a very long, indepth buyside process, and if I were to do corp dev (which at a real place is pretty intense according to former colleagues) I might as well do PE and get paid more.
Pretty much at a loss for what to do here and becoming increasingly depressed. Older monkeys on WSO...any suggestions? Thank you.
How old are you, how much $$ total are you making? And what would your Conforable amount of $$$ + hours would you think is ideal
Im late 20s, making $400-$500k.
I dont mind late weekdays, the weekends are soul crushing.
Would be fine with something in the $300-$350k range.
Think you're strongly underestimating the drain / stress of being a VP at an active EB / BB group. My strong recommendation is to lateral to a more lax bank. I work at a MM bank in a decently active, albeit small, group, and the VPs essentially work 9-5. They literally delegate everything and just coast. Yes, you'll still have to oversee your minions' execution and "drive the process" (whatever that means - analysts and associates do all the work anyway). At a culture / lifestyle bank, say for example a Canadian MM, you can peddle your EB / BB pedigree into a cushy job while still getting paid street. The market will be wide open next few months and with the economic outlook, I'm sure there will be demand for mid level bankers.
I'm in the exact same boat. While I agree it sounds like the OP is in a more difficult work culture group (since he says he works weekends as a VP) and a move to a smaller firm is definitely a viable lifestyle move if he otherwise likes banking. But I'm willing to bet the bigger issue is that, like myself, he doesn't see himself as a long term MD in banking. Couple years as VP or junior Director sure, but some people realize somewhere around mid levels that they will never make MD or it's not what they want to do anyway.
The problem for us is that the corporate dev jobs are pay cuts and PE doesn't seem that appealing and would require starting off at a lower level (versus banking VP equivalent role). It's the banking rat race, we cant get out cause the pay is starting to get too good. The longer we stay in, the deeper in we get sucked into the lifestyle and the more difficult it is too leave and less options we have.
I don't buy the classic golden handcuffs argument. It's essentially the equivalent of a mid life crisis for finance professionals. Whenever I hear the golden handcuffs nonsense, it just comes across as a whine by the late 20s / early 30s cohort of bankers who are basically saying they are bored with their jobs, but definitely enjoy getting paid a lot. "I hate my job, but get paid so much that I'm not going to leave because, again, I get paid a lot." Ok. You make a lot of money, got it. So? What's your point? Leave or stay, just stfu.
OP - stay in banking and take the lifestyle trade off that a MM bank will give you. If you don't see yourself as an MD in 6 years, cross that bridge in 6 years when you get there. Continue making a lot of money in the interim, and options will certainly be there for you if you end up getting pushed out as a Director. Believe it or not, there is an easier pathway to MD out there at other shops for former BB / EB pedigreed bankers who may have a list of contacts to call upon, and stellar deal execution experience. Even if you don't make it, I don't think I've ever seen any former banking directors manning the cash registers at McDonalds
Do you know what you like doing? You say that working weekends is starting to drain your soul, but if you still dream of being that baller MD one day, you probably just need to grind through until you get there.
You're making great money. I'm sure you know this already but investing well and living within your means will open more doors towards financial freedom when you have a better idea of what makes you really happy.
If all else fails, there's always business school where you can blow a sweet 100k and 2 years.
I'm not an older and experienced WSO individual, but given that he is an IB VP, wouldn't going to B-school set him back a little? I was thinking about it in terms of how people who go to B-school are around his age, but post-MBA opportunities in something like IB are at the Associate level. If he were to switch to something like consulting, would his position be adjusted accordingly?
Also, to answer your question OP, you could consider Corporate Finance jobs as well. I know some people who did IB for a while in their 20's past their analyst years and then transitioned into CF. I would imagine that the IB experience would help you to get a great management role in CF at a top company where you would be making a good amount of money. Your IB experience might also position you well to rise up the ranks and hopefully to a top management role in a company.
I could be completely off base (someone in large US corp dev please chime in / correct as needed), but I get the sense that finding something in corporate land at $300-350K from jr/1st year VP at BB or EB would be difficult. I recall talking to some ex-colleagues in IB who were looking to do something similar and were hard pressed to find something without taking a more significant discount.
I think also to get to the $300+ you’re probably mid-sr in corporate land, and the ramp up in pay doesn’t happen until you’re a jr executive. I’m also speaking based on what I’ve seen with large Canadian and some international corporates (less awareness of US corporates these days).
Depending on the firm, you may or may not get full credit based on your time in IB. Also VP in IB doesn’t equate to VP in corporate (where VP is actually often a very senior title). A jr VP in IB is probably something like a very Sr Manager about to be promoted or associate Director or jr Director of some kind.
You can probably check something like a Disney Strategy / Corp Dev type profile on LinkedIn. They have plenty of ex-bankers or consultants. It would give you a rough idea of what your experience would translate into and ballpark pay via Glassdoor (or via talking w people).
I noticed you are a VP in VC. For the purposes of helping the OP and me, I was wondering if you could lay out the opportunities available for the OP in VC and what would happen to his pay as well as whether his position at the VC would be adjusted accordingly.
Honestly, I just made the transition to VC quite recently. I rather not get into specific detail about my background leading up to VC cause it might give me away. But I did have an IB background.
Generally speaking though, it’s difficult to get in because most VC don’t have (or at least I haven’t seen) some formal process or stated track the way PE does. But people going in after say 2-5+ years pre-MBA come from a variety of backgrounds including IB, PE, consulting, strategy, startups ops & strat or bus dev, etc. I think getting in is a lot of being at the right time, right place, and being the right person (I.e. it just so happens that the VC is looking for someone with a particular skill set and you, who they’ve been connected with over time, has those skill sets). And because it’s a lot of networking and right timing, it translates to a lot of hustle on your own efforts.
An excellent blog to check out is https://johngannonblog.com. He gets a lot of intel on new opps. Something else to note would be which funds are raising capital or have had traction on hiring. SoftBank’s fund for example is huge, and they seem to have a lot of ex-bankers. They also have postings from time to time on LinkedIn.
I rather not comment on pay, because like I said, I don’t have full clarity. The blog above might have some links, and I think you may find something on quora. WSO search or database might turn up something. But you’re likely taking a fair discount (especially since you’re likely taking a hit on title as well). It’s not the same pay as PE.
In general, a late-20s Junior VP in IB would come in as a a Senior Manager in Corp Dev.
One of the senior director's in my group did almost exactly just that, except he came in early 30s.
If I were you, I would think about maybe taking some time and trying to figure out whether you really want to leave banking or just need something more engaging/different within banking. Seems like you're not burning out so much as you are going through a phase where you're lacking direction and are considering getting out just because it seems convenient. If you've done as well as you clearly have, that's giving up a lot down the road, so I'd be absolutely sure.
I think there are buy-side opportunities that might make sense for you. Obviously not mega-fund PE or whatever if you're trying to change your hours and lifestyle, but a lot of smaller funds I know/have friends at, have much more relaxed hours and since they don't have the same hiring rigidity of larger firms, they might be interested in someone with a little more experience and polish. Real Estate PE, VC are also super different and much more laid back. Buddy at a REPE firm works maybe 40 hours a week on a busy week and makes very nice money with some carry.
If you're really looking for something that's low-energy, try to move to AM or maybe WM. They really covet guys who have real banking experience, and the incentive comp packages can be pretty nice. I know a dude who's 28 working at a BB in their WM arm pulling in 350 doing the credit work on personal loans. He works 10-4 5x week.
Consulting won't pay enough and the lifestlye is even worse with all the travel and bullshit. Can't really see you landing a corpdev job that would pay enough either. Unless you're coming over at a much more senior level, those jobs really seem to tap out at mid 2s.
Appreciate the great insights. Had a whole reply typed out here and hen found out it somehow didn’t go through, below are my thoughts. Again thanks everyone!
I have thought about moving to a MM for better hours, but here are my qualms, let me know if any are off base 1) Lifestyle is group dependent and not necessarily better if you’re at Jeffries/William Blair/HLHZ, unless by MM you mean a Nomura/BMO type of place? (Where do VPs work 9-5 by the way?) 2) Most of the work will be smaller sell-sides versus strategic advisory? - I’m good at large cap math / advisory and that’s what my career has been so far, my CIM skill set consists of copying and pasting from older CIMs and writing doesn’t come super naturally to me (Committee memos in PE were the death of me) 3) I figure I have one bullet to go to MM from an BB/EB pedigree, and once I use it options start closing for things like other buyside roles / will be harder to get another job if layoffs come
I don’t see myself as a big shot MD, and don’t have dreams to announce deals on the front page of the WSJ, mostly because of the lifestyle (my MDs work more than me, just not in front of a computer), and some clients are the dumbest fucks I’ve ever seen and pretty much refuse to serve them. I don’t really want to become any sort of MD, this job pays well and I’m decent at it, the hours/pressure not to make a single mistake are draining, and my workplace culture is toxic.
I like the moving to another buyside role idea. Trying to figure what that’s is and how to spin the story. Credit guys seem to have real lives (It seems like they just layer on covenant models on top of sponsor models...). A hard pitch coming from large cap coverage however.
Glad to know I’m not alone out there too, I figure there must be a cohort of analyst promotes who stuck around and now are too senior to go back and do an MBA (opportunity cost is way too high), and now wondering what to do
Any more thoughts appreciated!
Totally agree with you on the lifestyle not necessarily being better at an MM like Jefferies and that it is totally group dependent. If you are in Jefferies' tech group, I can guarantee you that you would be working longer hours than you are right now. Over there, MDs come in on Saturdays and Sundays and work almost analyst hours because that's how the culture there. As a result, everyone below the MDs doesn't leave before the MDs.
The idea behind switching banks to a MM is that you identify the banks / groups with a more relaxed culture and lifestyle expectations. As I mentioned, strongly consider Canadian banks. Clearly Jefferies or other sweatshops would not be the play here.
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