11/5/17

At the private school that I attend, and at most colleges and universities in America, political correctness rules. Students on college campuses have developed an almost Orwellian newspeak and become fearfully polite, careful to avoid offense, and constantly afraid of being labeled with the slew of "isms" and "phobias" that have become the scarlet letters of our day. The result is that free speech is silenced and no one says what they really think anymore.

After these students graduate, they often go on to work in finance. So how prevalent is the PC culture in the finance industry? Is there a politically correct culture in finance that limits honest discussion?

Comments (83)

10/31/17

Even though on college campuses political correctness might have put a damper on debate and discussions, in my experience when it comes to the banking/finance industry, attitude, performance and work ethic take precedence.
That being said, there is no harm in acquiring the much needed skill of expressing your opinions and viewpoints with politeness.

Financial Modeling
11/2/17

America is the greatest country on Earth!

11/2/17

Wow, why are you throwing monkey shit at the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? Move to North Korea if you don't like it here!

11/2/17

Absolutely!!!!!!
And that monkey shit wasn't thrown by me.

11/2/17

Do you even PC bro?

10/31/17

You think it's bad in finance, try working at a west coast tech firm.

The day after the election, about 20% of the employees called in "sick" because they were too upset to show up to work. At least several times a week, I hear gratuitous Trump bashing. During a lunch with my group, a female colleague even "joked" about how she wishes Trump would get assassinated, and our boss just laughed it off.

Tech attracts the most self-righteous obnoxious liberal SJW types in the entire planet.

11/1/17

haha dudez fuck liberals amirite?!

11/5/17

It's almost a mental imbalance with logical reasoning and rationing. Liberals are incredible hypocrites. Love trumps hate, then pray for assassination?

Unhinged.

26 Broadway
where's your sense of humor?

11/5/17

Sad!

11/1/17

Jeez. It's not much better at a lot of the East Coast private schools. You should have seen the campus therapy dogs, coloring book sessions, and healing groups that the kids at my school needed after the election.

11/1/17

Is this for real?

11/1/17

Unfortunately, yes. You can't make this stuff up.

11/2/17

Fuck sakes. I thought this shit was exaggerated as I'm from Australia but damn thats a depressing thing to hear considering how weak humanity has become. I wonder what my Great Grandfather who served in WWII would think about all this shit.

11/16/17

Here is some type of event from Michigan law school that advertised coloring sheets, play dough and bubbles for their law students...

I honestly thought this was a joke at first but it seems real, eventually they took it down because people were making fun of them I guess.

11/1/17

Trump is garbage though. It's not even a left vs right issue anymore.

11/1/17
Roy-Ray:

Trump is garbage though. It's not even a left vs right issue anymore.

That's true, but this PC nightmare pre-dates Trump.

11/2/17

Actually I think if there was no insane PC culture, there would be no Trump in the first place?

Anyone agree? @roy-ray" chime in pal

11/3/17

Trump's presidency is going to be detrimental to all Americans, but in the end, the people who voted for him are going to be affected the most.

Yesterday there was news that a group of coal miners rejected retraining because they believe the President that the coal jobs would come back. These are the same people ranting against socialism, but 5 yrs down the line (when they're broke) they'd complain how the nation has forgotten them and Govt. doesn't do anything to help them.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-co...
I understand if you voted for Trump if you felt he was the best guy for the job. Republicans had some decent candidates, Jeb Bush, Rubio, Rand Paul...but voting for Trump as a "vengeance" for PC culture is myopic and moronic.

11/8/17

Nah I didn't vote for him, I just believe that people were fed up with some of the PC stuff and voted for Trump as a protest vote.

Maybe you think it's myopic but if people feel backed into a corner to the point where they don't believe they are allowed to freely espouse any of their views, maybe they would take drastic action to seek vengeance or something like that.

11/1/17

West Coast college graduate here, I happened to see the huge debate outside of the lecture hall in our campus when Milo Yiannopoulos was on his "tour" last year. Caused such an uproar. I think West Coast colleges and universities, especially tech do have many liberal point of view. I work in the finance industry right now after graduation, and although there are some hints of extreme liberalism, it seems a bit more reserved than a tech company like you described would.

11/1/17

I work in tech on the West Coast (Idaho though), and in a college town. Work is fine (after the election everyone was openly happy Hillary lost) as most if not all are conservative, but the college students and professors surely make-up for it.


"I am always saying "Glad to've met you" to somebody I'm not at all glad I met. If you want to stay alive, you have to say that stuff, though."
-- J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

11/1/17

It's definitely troubling. As someone who has never been afraid to express his beliefs, I find that I'm increasingly under attack in the various academic and social circles I'm involved in. I think the key is projecting a persona that sticks to your core values, so that in cases where you may slip up, and say something some would deem inappropriate or insensitive, they evaluate that comment against the image you have conveyed throughout your relationship with them.

11/1/17

Law 38 homie. Law 38.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

11/1/17

In banking there's less PC-culture for sure compared to college campuses. But nowadays, college campuses are such a cesspool of leftism. (Not liberalism, there's a difference) It's just college students with a lot of time and want to feel significant. Understandable since who wouldn't want to be part of history. Every protestor wants to be the next Rosa Parks. People with jobs in finance don't have time for that.

It really is sad...I think if people had just stopped the identity politics and debated issues out, Trump wouldn't even have gotten elected since people would have realized his policies are less than optimal to say the least. The polarizing behavior from both left and right nowadays are the problem.

11/1/17

I think the out of control political correctness of our era finally fully sunk in to me when I read an article a few months ago about "discrimination" in society against the "asexual" (i.e. people with low or no sex drive). I was like, "Whaaa?"

11/1/17

Great point about the difference between leftism and liberalism. There's a big difference between believing in liberal policies and supporting the ideas in vogue among social justice warriors on college campuses today. I think it's fair to say that concepts like "triggers" and "micro-aggressions" irritate a lot of sensible liberals, as they should. It's hard to even have a debate with someone on a lot of campuses today without someone getting offended. Glad to hear that there's less of a PC culture in banking though.

Financial Modeling
Best Response
11/1/17

I think the key is being able to defend your point of view. If you have a reasonably well-argued position, it's hard to call you a 'bigot' or some other word designed to silence you. I'm pretty centrist, I suppose, and used to be a Republican. My views shifted left as I got older, since I grew up in a conservative household, and didn't have a particularly well-developed worldview until my mid-20s. I had a lot of opinions, but they were mostly half-baked. That's what college is meant to allow you to explore. If you cannot participate in civil discussions that allow for all sides of an argument to be heard long enough and openly enough to change your mind (or change the minds of others), then your university experience isn't particularly worthwhile.

That said, your political views shouldn't be expressed brashly at the office. And you certainly shouldn't be joking about assassinating the President with coworkers. I assure you that if Hillary had won, and a white male had made the same insinuation even jokingly at a West Coast tech firm, they'd be fired (or at least have a major HR problem). The double standard at the moment is absurd.

And it's not about political correctness in those instances. It's obviously not PC to joke about such things. I think a lot of so called political correctness changes from person to person. On a lot of college campuses at the moment, a wealthy white male essentially has to prostrate himself in order to 'check his privilege' enough to participate in a lot of discussions due to the odious tendency of liberals to assume he simply cannot understand their position because of his race, sex and social status. When coupled with a half-baked worldview that's never really been tested, it leaves a lot of college students unprepared for the workforce they're entering.

Some falsely assume that all educated and intelligent people already agree with them on virtually everything that matters and share poorly-formed perspectives with colleagues who may respectfully disagree with them. The problem, of course, is the environment in which these views are shared. If you challenge an underrepresented minority female's perspective on anything associated with race, gender, affirmative action, sexual harassment, pay disparities, or any interpretation of an event before 1999, you open yourself to an HR inquiry.

It's a genuine concern, since people should be able to express themselves at work without fear of triggering someone. In my experience, little to nothing interesting happens in absence of some controversy. It's too easy to offend people any more. And I think it really depends a lot on the person as to what they can pull off. If you're a Caucasian chef who cooks soul food, there's a real chance that you'll get harassed for cultural appropriation. But if you know nothing about African American culture, you're ignorant. Either way, your opinion on Southern cooking is likely to be tainted in some people's minds because of a presupposition of some wrongdoing on your part.

This is the basest sentiment of leftist thinking, which separates it from true liberalism specifically because it is illiberal. You cannot wish to be viewed as a strong Latin woman when it suits you while simultaneously demanding that race and gender be ignored when it suits you because it's nigh impossible for a third party to know your mind well enough to know when it suits and when it doesn't. To then get frustrated to the point of becoming 'triggered' is only natural. It's the result of a mountain of cognitive dissonance experiencing an avalanche of reason.

Clearly, this sort of nonsense annoys me. You have to quickly decide for yourself if it's worth engaging on a topic with a coworker who has said something off-color around you. Just be prepared to repeat anything you say to HR. Otherwise, don't associate with them at the office. It's sad that this sort of office environment will lead not to inclusion and diversity, but to paranoia over sharing contradictory opinions. This will, in-turn, lead to the holder of said opinions either:

  1. Remaining silent while harboring resentment of the colleagues who ruin their work environment, or
  2. Engaging in a losing battle with a female-dominated HR department (most are) which is unlikely to side with the person holding the minority opinion

It's like attempting to explain to Nurse Ratched that you don't need your pills today. No matter how logical or reasonable you are, if you're surrounded by lunacy, you're going to appear insane. The solution is simple: just don't talk politics at work and encourage others to do the same.

11/1/17

If only we could all approach any kind of debate or disagreement with this perspective. It's sickening to me the intimidation that is experienced by anyone who dissents with popular opinion these days. The moment you "out" yourself as someone who doesn't agree with popular opinion, you are labeled as a racist/homophobe/bigot/etc before any debate has even begun. To top that off, stating statistics or facts about any specific group to support your argument can be taken as a microaggression and you will be shouted down due to your unchecked "discriminatory beliefs." If this isn't oppression of free speech, I don't know what is.

11/3/17

Post of the year.

11/1/17

I thought it was rather interesting that during my summer internship there was a complete 50/50 split between male and female interns. At face value this is wonderful, until you consider the fact that there are twice as many male STEM graduates as there are female STEM graduates. In some essence, this is just plain old discriminatory hiring.

If I can also digress a little and voice my opinion that men don't generally cause compliance/PR issues for firms like women do. For example, I occasionally make fun of my buddies' bald spot and he quips back that at least he's over 6'0. We both end up laughing and then get drinks together. With females you really do need to walk on egg shells because there is really nothing in the eyes of society that you can tease a woman for without it being construed as part of some bigger, over-thoughtout conspiracy theory alleged to degrade females in the work space.

If you tease a woman's look or outfit you're a sexist misogynist pig, if you don't agree that a female coworker has any valuable input then you're automatically dismissive, etc. Everything has gotten so damn deep in this whole PC crusade and it really isn't deep.

11/1/17
LReed:

I thought it was rather interesting that during my summer internship there was a complete 50/50 split between male and female interns. At face value this is wonderful, until you consider the fact that there are twice as many male STEM graduates as there are female STEM graduates. In some essence, this is just plain old discriminatory hiring.

If I can also digress a little and voice my opinion that men don't generally cause compliance/PR issues for firms like women do. For example, I occasionally make fun of my buddies' bald spot and he quips back that at least he's over 6'0. We both end up laughing and then get drinks together. With females you really do need to walk on egg shells because there is really nothing in the eyes of society that you can tease a woman for without it being construed as part of some bigger, over-thoughtout conspiracy theory alleged to degrade females in the work space.

If you tease a woman's look or outfit you're a sexist misogynist pig, if you don't agree that a female coworker has any valuable input then you're automatically dismissive, etc. Everything has gotten so damn deep in this whole PC crusade and it really isn't deep.

I've never, in my life, felt the need to walk on egg shells around women in the office. I've worked across the street and in industry and have had, definitely, overly personal relationships with both men and women (some romantic) I've worked with. Being not an idiot and have some social IQ takes away any feeling of having to "walk on egg shells". And I've never seen women cause more HR problems then men.

Quite frankly, I don't know you, but the only people I've ever heard voice this opinion are social inept people who legitimately feel discriminated against because Becky can't take them "joking" about her large tits loudly in the office.

11/1/17

According to this, it seems like a lot of people are uncomfortable alone with opposite sex co-workers, and other in work situations.

11/1/17

I mean, you have your experience, but in my experience the idea that working with women isn't fundamentally different is complete and utter horseshit. I've had two real work arguments with women and in each case the aftermath included them literally crying (not figuratively, literally) to the boss. In all of the arguments I've had with males at work that has never happened. Of course, this is off topic from PC, but there is this absurd notion among leftists that men and women aren't different when this could not be further from the truth.

That's not to say that I oppose women in the workplace--I don't--but reading your tripe one would get the impression that all you have to have is proper emotional intelligence and working with women is no different; well, if that's the case then there's obviously a difference between men and women.

11/1/17

Yep - simply stating biological tendencies that differ in how men and women interact in a work setting is enough to get you fired these days.

11/1/17
j. madden:

Yep - simply stating biological tendencies that differ in how men and women interact in a work setting is enough to get you fired these days.

No, it's not, and this is hilarious propaganda. I know what the response will be here so no, the google guy didn't simple "state" biological differences between men and women at work. He used backward looking statistics about where women ARE to assert that he knew there are biological differences that make them inherently worse engineers then men (which is clearly incorrect and misses all nuance and critical thinking in the idea). It's nothing more than lowest common denominator propaganda.

Quotes from his screed:
"Women, on average, have more: Neuroticism (higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance). This may contribute to the higher levels of anxiety women report on Googlegeist and to the lower number of women in high stress jobs."

"Women on average show a higher interest in people and men in things."

"Women on average look for more work-life balance while men have a higher drive for status on average. Unfortunately, as long as tech and leadership remain high status, lucrative careers, men may disproportionately want to be in them. Allowing and truly endorsing (as part of our culture) part time work though can keep more women in tech."

There is no real science that support these claims, there is only his conjecture. Secondly, he's clearly offending people by projecting his own biases onto his coworkers who he, in many cases, knows nothing about. Coming full circle, if he had the slightest bit of social iq he would have known this was inappropriate and that it would be highly offensive to individuals.

It's interesting that the responses to my post have essentially proven my original point.

11/1/17

Actually, all of those quotes reflect studies in scientific articles, so your point of "no real science" supporting these claims seems a little off. It's also a little presumptuous that you would assume to be the gatekeeper of what is constituted as real science. You either must be a renown expert on gender studies or you have quite a lot more time to waste than I do.

Women are more neurotic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-anx...
"Women on average show a higher interest in people and men in things." - http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fa0...
"Women on average look for more work-life balance"
http://www.jstor.org/stable/585316?seq=1#page_scan...
*Edited for spelling

11/1/17

Man just stop identifying that pre-natal testosterone differences exist is a hate crime. Bigot.

11/1/17
j. madden:

Actually, all of those quotes reflect studies in scientific articles, so your point of "no real science" supporting these claims seems a little off. It's also a little presumptuous that you would assume to be the gatekeeper of what is constituted as real science. You either must be a renown expert on gender studies or you have quite a lot more time to waste than I do.

Women are more neurotic: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-anx...
"Women on average show a higher interest in people and men in things." - http://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fa0...
"Women on average look for more work-life balance"
http://www.jstor.org/stable/585316?seq=1#page_scan...
*Edited for spelling

Except that's incorrect. None of those are scientific inferences of biological differences. There is not a single scientific study done, where there are control groups and non control groups, for both men and women in the same life circumstances, where data has proven biological differences of that kind. A poll of women in 1994 of what their life preferences are is not a scientific study and is clearly biased based on life circumstances and culture, and has no suggestion whatsoever on biology. That's the point I inferenced before about his use of backward looking statistics attempting to make scientific arguments.

No peer reviewed journal would ever accept these as fair inferences or findings. Its a clear and inarguable misuse of statsitics biased to use incorrectly in a causation argument. And that would have been clear to him and that he was being offensive with an ounce of critical thinking and social iq.

11/1/17
Dances with Dachshunds:

I mean, you have your experience, but in my experience the idea that working with women isn't fundamentally different is complete and utter horseshit. I've had two real work arguments with women and in each case the aftermath included them literally crying (not figuratively, literally) to the boss. In all of the arguments I've had with males at work that has never happened. Of course, this is off topic from PC, but there is this absurd notion among leftists that men and women aren't different when this could not be further from the truth.

That's not to say that I oppose women in the workplace--I don't--but reading your tripe one would get the impression that all you have to have is proper emotional intelligence and working with women is no different; well, if that's the case then there's obviously a difference between men and women.

Considering, under your old username, you've explicitly stated that white culture is inherently better than black culture, and men are inherently better than women at STEM, I think it's pretty clear you just proved my prior point.

This isn't a left vs. right issue, it's one of maturity and social iq. Your quote alone tells me you lack those things, because you characterize "fights" at work that you've had. You know something? I've never had a fight at work, because I articulate my point, I listen to dissenting opinions, and then we provide data to back up our assertions. If a disagreement at work ever gets to something you would describe as a "fight", then you've already failed the "acting like an adult" test. Try to stop looking at every relationship you have as adversarial, for a start, and you might stop having these "fights".

11/1/17
AllDay_028:

Considering, under your old username, you've explicitly stated that white culture is inherently better than black culture, and men are inherently better than women at STEM, I think it's pretty clear you just proved my prior point.

Typical leftist distorting the truth. I said that there are elements of African American (not BLACK) culture that are inferior to non-AA culture that explain the continued economic failure of the AA community today. And it's a pure, unadulterated lie that I said men are inherently better than women at STEM--this is a pure lie. I said there are biological differences that explain why women are less likely to CHOOSE to go into STEM fields, and I provided lengthy, supporting evidence.

The left's positions are so intellectually bankrupt and indefensible that all you are left with (no pun intended) is distortions of the truth.

11/2/17

Lack of birth control and unintended pregnancies explain the economic setbacks in minority groups across the US more than anything else.

11/1/17
AllDay_028:

This isn't a left vs. right issue, it's one of maturity and social iq. Your quote alone tells me you lack those things, because you characterize "fights" at work that you've had. You know something? I've never had a fight at work, because I articulate my point, I listen to dissenting opinions, and then we provide data to back up our assertions. If a disagreement at work ever gets to something you would describe as a "fight", then you've already failed the "acting like an adult" test. Try to stop looking at every relationship you have as adversarial, for a start, and you might stop having these "fights".

Considering that you're a pathological liar, I don't believe that you've never had a passionate disagreement with a co-worker.

11/1/17

As a rule, I try to abstain from personal invectives and needless ad hominems. Although I probably transgress more than I'd like, in this case I can't help but indulge.

AllDay_028:

You know something? I've never had a fight at work, because I articulate my point, I listen to dissenting opinions, and then we provide data to back up our assertions. If a disagreement at work ever gets to something you would describe as a "fight", then you've already failed the "acting like an adult" test. Try to stop looking at every relationship you have as adversarial, for a start, and you might stop having these "fights".

Ah, what sweet music to my ears. It never ceases to amaze me how Dasches can continue to mistake his sheer recalcitrance for some perverse form of intellectual honesty. On a fundamental level, he does not understand that the goal of thoughtful disagreement is to arrive closer to the underlying, objective truth, regardless of which side is the purveyor. Instead, his disagreements and exchanges are characterized by histrionic displays of defiance, acrimony, backtracking, and belittling. He's a living exemplar of the backfire effect.

To him, anything but full acquiescence to his perspective is both an affront and by default "intellectually bankrupt". It appears this is not just a keyboard persona, but also how he conducts himself in the office. Truly a shame.

The smartest people I know are the most cognitively pliable. They have strong opinions but hold them loosely. They understand that when the map does not comport with the territory, that it's the map that is wrong.

As one of my favorite John Galbraith quotes goes "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." Doubly so for Dasches.

11/1/17

This might be the dumbest must self-important response to anything I have ever read lol. This is embarrassing man, you don't care about the truth, you wouldn't even answer questions that a third grader could answer about freedom of speech.

LOL my god it is like you are trying to sound smart or something by sounding as snobby as human possible!

EDIT: Hahahahah I didn't even realize that you spelled "dances" as "dasches" multiple times!

11/1/17
Schreckstoff:

As a rule, I try to abstain from personal invectives and needless ad hominems. Although I probably transgress more than I'd like, in this case I can't help but indulge.

AllDay_028:

You know something? I've never had a fight at work, because I articulate my point, I listen to dissenting opinions, and then we provide data to back up our assertions. If a disagreement at work ever gets to something you would describe as a "fight", then you've already failed the "acting like an adult" test. Try to stop looking at every relationship you have as adversarial, for a start, and you might stop having these "fights".

Ah, what sweet music to my ears. It never ceases to amaze me how Dasches can continue to mistake his sheer recalcitrance for some perverse form of intellectual honesty. On a fundamental level, he does not understand that the goal of thoughtful disagreement is to arrive closer to the underlying, objective truth, regardless of which side is the purveyor. Instead, his disagreements and exchanges are characterized by histrionic displays of defiance, acrimony, backtracking, and belittling. He's a living exemplar of the backfire effect.

To him, anything but full acquiescence to his perspective is both an affront and by default "intellectually bankrupt". It appears this is not just a keyboard persona, but also how he conducts himself in the office. Truly a shame.

The smartest people I know are the most cognitively pliable. They have strong opinions but hold them loosely. They understand that when the map does not comport with the territory, that it's the map that is wrong.

As one of my favorite John Galbraith quotes goes "Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." Doubly so for Dasches.

This is such a moronic post that it doesn't even merit a response beyond this sentence.

11/2/17

How can you say someone lacks maturity and social IQ when you have made multiple posts crying about how Donal Dwumpf hurt your feelings?

My dude you made a post on an internet forum about how you fell "in love" with a girl who you were letting cheat on you... Wouldn't that imply a lack of social IQ, letting a woman walk all over you and blatantly cheat on you then crying about it on the interwebz?

EDIT: @AllDay_028 any response here bud i really think we need to work through your issues here on WSO, i want to help

11/2/17

Men and women are different and only a fool would approach them in the same way. Are you really willing to say that when you're trying to build relationships, work or otherwise, that you talk to every man the exact same way with the exact same tone, jokes, commentary etc? You don't talk to the devout and secular people differently or avoid certain topics or commentary with them?

You do this all day long, unless you're socially inept, and so why exactly is that different for women? Is it because you're not familiar with how to build rapport with different types of women? Orrrrr are they just not worthy of the effort?

11/3/17
Dances with Dachshunds:

I mean, you have your experience, but in my experience the idea that working with women isn't fundamentally different is complete and utter horseshit. I've had two real work arguments with women and in each case the aftermath included them literally crying (not figuratively, literally) to the boss. In all of the arguments I've had with males at work that has never happened. Of course, this is off topic from PC, but there is this absurd notion among leftists that men and women aren't different when this could not be further from the truth.

That's not to say that I oppose women in the workplace--I don't--but reading your tripe one would get the impression that all you have to have is proper emotional intelligence and working with women is no different; well, if that's the case then there's obviously a difference between men and women.

I also must admit that just because I'm a heterosexual man I do think that I take rejection by females in the workplace more personally than I would take them from a man. I think this definitely goes both ways, perhaps because hetero men and women tend to seek a certain type of gratification from the opposite gender that they wouldn't seek from their own gender. We all have biases and I try hard to recognize mine, but I will also confess that when I interview with a female that I don't hit it off with I'm much more likely to dismiss her as an individual because her rejection effects me on a subconscious level that I don't think a man's rejection touches.

Predicated on the notion that people in general tend to take rejection from the opposite gender in a more emotional manner, and then multiply it by the fact that the majority of high-finance managers are men - and I can completely see how women would feel marginally more abused in the workplace.

Where I disagree with the media narrative is that I don't think that men have any conscious hatred against women. I just think that small disagreements or differences of opinion have a magnified psychological effect when they occur between two opposite genders.

11/3/17
AllDay_028:
LReed:

I thought it was rather interesting that during my summer internship there was a complete 50/50 split between male and female interns. At face value this is wonderful, until you consider the fact that there are twice as many male STEM graduates as there are female STEM graduates. In some essence, this is just plain old discriminatory hiring.

If I can also digress a little and voice my opinion that men don't generally cause compliance/PR issues for firms like women do. For example, I occasionally make fun of my buddies' bald spot and he quips back that at least he's over 6'0. We both end up laughing and then get drinks together. With females you really do need to walk on egg shells because there is really nothing in the eyes of society that you can tease a woman for without it being construed as part of some bigger, over-thoughtout conspiracy theory alleged to degrade females in the work space.

If you tease a woman's look or outfit you're a sexist misogynist pig, if you don't agree that a female coworker has any valuable input then you're automatically dismissive, etc. Everything has gotten so damn deep in this whole PC crusade and it really isn't deep.

I've never, in my life, felt the need to walk on egg shells around women in the office. I've worked across the street and in industry and have had, definitely, overly personal relationships with both men and women (some romantic) I've worked with. Being not an idiot and have some social IQ takes away any feeling of having to "walk on egg shells". And I've never seen women cause more HR problems then men.

Quite frankly, I don't know you, but the only people I've ever heard voice this opinion are social inept people who legitimately feel discriminated against because Becky can't take them "joking" about her large tits loudly in the office.

So, I think I came off improperly in that post. I'm not speaking of a personal anecdote where I said some stupid shit like "hey becky, your tits look great today!" and then got sent to HR. I'm moreso responding to the general liberal-media consensus that women are way more likely to face dismissive or abusive attitudes in the work place. I think a lot of journalists have a double standard or at the least an extra sensitivity when it comes to what constitutes improper conduct towards men versus females, despite the fact that they've never worked a day in the sectors that they're claiming are highly sexists. I meant to address the media consensus rather than my personal experience working in high finance.

For example, the Fearless Girl statue or whatever its called was engineered by a PR firm for publicity's sake. It wasn't anything to do with the actual females that work on Wall Street. I too don't feel the need to walk on egg shells when I talk to my female coworkers, but I think firms at large need to walk on egg shells when they address the media.

TL;DR Most females in finance are bad ass but the media portrays them as victims and for that reason there's a greater risk of catastrophic PR when a female faces unfair conduct versus when a man gets shafted.

I'm also hammered.

11/1/17

Extreme politeness / fear of speaking "out of turn" is not limited to finance. It's a corporate america thing. If you're on the company's time and dime, it's just standard operating procedure that you better make sure you come correct. Also private east coast colleges have always been bastions for progressive / liberal ideals.

People have strong opinions about things and if everyone was forthcoming, at work for example, with those thoughts...consider the alternative? There's not really a gray area when people debate deeply rooted personal opinions; things would devolve pretty quickly. Consider the flame wars that Trump threads inevitable become on this site.

If I have strong / "contrary" opinions on things, I'm always forthcoming around friends, close loved ones, or my significant other.

11/1/17

The only people who care about their place of work being too politically correct are insecure men who post on internet forums.

11/1/17

yea bro this shit is weird, I don't have enough time at my office to be discussing politics. If we do it is usually light-hearted and in passing. I mean, I just like to work and go home and if I engage in conversation it's usually about sports or some other benign subject...

11/1/17
DeepLearning:

The only people who care about their place of work being too politically correct are insecure men who post on internet forums.

I'm not really making the intellectual connection between insecurity and not liking political correctness. Is this a case of "takes one to know one"? Because it must take a pretty insecure person to accuse others of being insecure--based on nothing...

11/2/17
Dances with Dachshunds:
DeepLearning:

The only people who care about their place of work being too politically correct are insecure men who post on internet forums.

I'm not really making the intellectual connection between insecurity and not liking political correctness. Is this a case of "takes one to know one"? Because it must take a pretty insecure person to accuse others of being insecure--based on nothing...

Or sometimes they're just fucking right.

Get busy living

11/1/17

I've said it before, I'll say it again, remove yourself from those situations. work is for work, not for political discussions.

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

11/2/17
thebrofessor:

I've said it before, I'll say it again, remove yourself from those situations. work is for work, not for political discussions.

Jah. Even being associated with openly political types in the office is a liability.

Get busy living

11/1/17

I know that if a cisgendered scum even makes eye contact with me at work I completely hyperventilate and need several hours of coloring book therapy. I don't know how I'm supposed to be productive when I'm surrounded by people who aren't even black Muslim lesbian transqueer postop anarchists (without nose piercings and denim).

If demanding that everybody at work become homosexual is unreasonable then I don't even want to live in this solar system anymore.

11/3/17

Your 1st sentence was gold. There rest cringe-worthy.

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

11/1/17

the fact that I know what cisgender means pisses me off

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

11/1/17

I've looked it up a few times because every time I see the word I think it has greater meaning that it does. Nope and every time I get pissed. Now I am in the same boat as you, pissed off that cisgender is word taking up space in my head.


"I am always saying "Glad to've met you" to somebody I'm not at all glad I met. If you want to stay alive, you have to say that stuff, though."
-- J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

11/1/17

The biggest irony of this whole situation is that the shackles are being put to society by the very same people who actually, genuinely, think they are helping making it more inclusive. I've met some of these people and they are entirely convinced that this is the way to go and do not in any way see the paradox of indulging fringe groups and promoting their rights to extremes while taking away the freedom from the rest. The saddest part is that it's spreading, including finance. I would never support anyone making a loud crude joke in the workplace. Nor do I think we should avoid talking about anything else but work in the workplace. We are social creatures, not fucking robots so we should be ourselves and there is a middle ground between those two extremes.

"I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. "
-GG

11/1/17

My desk doesn't seem particularly PC although it's a completely different vibe from even 10 years ago. A lot of "PCness" comes from needing to thread the line with customers. They can be all over the map politically, you really need to pick your spots if you're going to make jokes about anything a little edgy.

11/2/17

I agree with all of @AllDay_028 points. This is an issue about social IQ, respect and maturity. The way I've started to look at it is like those people with zero fashion sense, you know the type, and it usually boils down to not having a role model who knew the importance of presentation and first impressions. Now it's about masculinity (or lack of a toxic masculinity) and basic respect in a diverse society.

11/2/17
Tiger16:

At the private school that I attend, and at most colleges and universities in America, political correctness rules. Students on college campuses have developed an almost Orwellian newspeak and become fearfully polite, careful to avoid offense, and constantly afraid of being labeled with the slew of "isms" and "phobias" that have become the scarlet letters of our day. The result is that free speech is silenced and no one says what they really think anymore.

After these students graduate, they often go on to work in finance. So how prevalent is the PC culture in the finance industry? Is there a politically correct culture in finance that limits honest discussion?

I think it's a big step to think that the safe spacers (who are not as prevalent as you make them out to be) are the same students going to work on Wall Street...

11/2/17

Fair point. I wouldn't say that "safe spacers" are dime a dozen on college campuses, but I can say that there are a ton of students at private schools at least who are invested in "PC culture" significantly more than the average American. It's probably true that they're a lot less likely to go into finance though.

11/2/17

Also, in 2017, "political correctness" has about as much actual meaning as "fake news" does.

"Fake news" means news that is purposefully incorrect for the sake of fooling someone into thinking something - like Hillary Clinton running a child sex ring out of a pizza shop - not news that is simply disagreeable, paints you in a bad light, or uses unnamed sources, which is how the White House uses the term.

Likewise, "political correctness" never was meant to be able "cisgender" people or safe spaces or the "war on Christmas" or whatever - it was meant to reflect a type of speech that is strategically inoffensive, such as how a politician would approach a controversial topic. It is hardly a bad thing to avoid offending rational human beings, and while there are people or groups out there that make a habit out of being offended, they are both outliers and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

"Anti-PC" culture has become almost, if not more toxic, than "PC culture" these days. So many people think they're being "Anti-PC" when really they're just being assholes. "Oh what...I can't call gay people fags and can't call black people the N word theses days? I can't make a Muslim tell me Merry Christmas in October? What is the world coming to?!?"

11/2/17

This lol

11/4/17

This is a complete strawman. Almost no one is criticizing PC because they wish they could still use inflammatory slurs. PC culture has created a social hierarchy that ranks the validity of opinions based on a person's identity. It is this cultural shift that almost all people here and elsewhere have criticized.

11/4/17
PeterMBA2018:

This is a complete strawman. Almost no one is criticizing PC because they wish they could still use inflammatory slurs.

Many of those "free speech" rallies were literally people walking down the streets while screaming slurs.

11/6/17
PeterMBA2018:

This is a complete strawman. Almost no one is criticizing PC because they wish they could still use inflammatory slurs.

Yes they are.

PeterMBA2018:

PC culture has created a social hierarchy that ranks the validity of opinions based on a person's identity. It is this cultural shift that almost all people here and elsewhere have criticized.

No it doesn't.

11/8/17

So do you believe the terms "man" and "woman" are slurs? Because to the more PC crowd they most definitely are and are actually considered "transphobic disinformation" when improperly identifying someone's gender.

I believe Princeton wants faculty to stop using terms like "fireman" and instead use "firefighter". So no you are completely wrong and just flat out lying as usual, but what can you expect from someone who doesn't even believe in the concept of free speech.

https://www.princeton.edu/hr/progserv/communicatio...
I will ask once again since you probably won't answer. Are using gendered pronouns, slurs?

11/8/17

Are we turning into a culture that's being conditioned to feel compelled to be insulted or offended, even if we don't really have a problem with something?

If you find yourself feeling lost, go climb a mountain.

11/8/17
Dig Bumb Idiot:

So do you believe the terms "man" and "woman" are slurs? Because to the more PC crowd they most definitely are and are actually considered "transphobic disinformation" when improperly identifying someone's gender.

I believe Princeton wants faculty to stop using terms like "fireman" and instead use "firefighter". So no you are completely wrong and just flat out lying as usual, but what can you expect from someone who doesn't even believe in the concept of free speech.

https://www.princeton.edu/hr/progserv/communicatio...
I will ask once again since you probably won't answer. Are using gendered pronouns, slurs?

Who are you?

Not that it matters, but when you say things like "lying as usual" and "someone who doesn't believe in the concept of free speech" it implies we have some long-standing rivalry or something. Also, you can't ask me a question - if I believe man and women are slurs - and then act all irritated and "ask me again" in the same post. What is this shit?

"Man" and "Woman" are not slurs and "the more PC crowd" that people point to and act like all of the left is as extreme as they are do not represent the majority in any shape or form. It's a red herring - a spotlight on the most extreme of the extreme - that makes a good headline on Fox News but has zero impact on real life.

Also, if Princeton wants people to use gender-neutral terms for individuals who fight fires, not only does that not make me "completely wrong," but...who actually gives a shit? Does it materially impact your life if an academic wants to call firemen "firefighters?"

11/8/17

So you do not consider the terms "man" and "woman" slurs? So you agree that PC people over-reach to things that are not slurs? Thank you for seeing the light (reality) and agreeing!

I don't watch Fox News anyways, not sure why you would bring that up...

What do you mean who am I? Isn't this an anonymous website? Aren't you the guy who refused to answer the simple question "do you believe everyone has the right to free speech". If you are mentally capable answering that question this time around, please do so now.

No wonder you voted for Evan McMullin good lord you are a shill.

11/9/17
Dig Bumb Idiot:

So you do not consider the terms "man" and "woman" slurs? So you agree that PC people over-reach to things that are not slurs? Thank you for seeing the light (reality) and agreeing!

I don't watch Fox News anyways, not sure why you would bring that up...

What do you mean who am I? Isn't this an anonymous website? Aren't you the guy who refused to answer the simple question "do you believe everyone has the right to free speech". If you are mentally capable answering that question this time around, please do so now.

No wonder you voted for Evan McMullin good lord you are a shill.

Oh lord you're that guy.

Move along.

11/14/17

Well at least you admit you aren't mentally capable of answering whether or not you believe humans have free speech. No wonder you support that moron Evan McMullin, no wonder you are fat and have a bunch of tattoos, gooD lawd!

11/9/17

Ah I see that your sensible and moderately liberal views have caught the reactionary attention of this dreg. Don't waste your time, when he's not groveling and fawning over the conservatives on this site, he's regurgitating their talking points, and when he's not doing that, he's just trolling anybody with a liberal sensibility.

His entire political discourse consists of slogging through the sewers of 4chan for the PC hysteria du jour so that he can ascribe it to liberalism. Fortunately, I'm convinced he's not old enough to vote, as adults aren't this willfully petulant.

11/9/17

"His entire political discourse consists of slogging through the sewers of 4chan"

I haven't literally laughed out loud in a while. Thank you!!

Monkey see. Monkey Doo [Doo].

11/14/17

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11/2/17

Get busy living

11/5/17

Work hard, work clean, & most of all do not give up.

11/6/17
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