Question on Studying Abroad
There were some fantastic contributions in the other study abroad thread (http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/study-abroad-spring-semester-or-s…), which prompted to me to create this one. To prevent hijacking, I have chosen to create a separate thread.
There seems to be broad consensus that studying abroad is absolutely worthwhile. However, my concern is as to whether it is worthwhile for someone in my context. I am not someone who wants to party or go out to events. Instead, I am much more focused on what can be considered 'professional' and 'academic' endeavours. I know I might get shit for this, but I think it is better to be honest and get useful advice. Is the experience still worthwhile for someone in my position?
If studying abroad does not conflict with recruiting, it is always worth it. There is more to do than just partying. You can backpack, travel, go visit cultural events, etc.
Cheers for the advice, Sil.
What if I'm not interested in backpacking, travelling or visiting cultural events? What if I'm a nerdy guy who likes to sit behind a computer and do valuation and develop quantitative strategies?
Make no mistake - I'm able to socialise well and have strong communication skills. However, I simply prefer to do other things (as stated above).
Unless you're trying to get a job where you won't talk to anyone, I'd strongly recommend going out and doing things that will make you more social.
I did a study abroad and a guy that went was more like you, and by the end of the trip, he was a completely different person socially. Still a little awkward at times, but definitely not an outcast. Who knows, you might end up getting a new interest. Not exactly similar, but a friend of mine went on a trip to Thailand and after being there for a little while, now works there. Something like that could happen to you. You never know what you're going to like until you try it.
Just remember when it comes to recruiting, they're going to pick the guy that they can imagine themselves working with until 3 am, vs. the guy that doesn't talk and just builds models all day.
If you're only going there for academic purposes then focus on the relevant parameters (curriculum, professors, job scenario, etc.) and compare with your native country. If the country abroad has more plus points, go for it.
Yes absolutely. It is a great experience to go and travel and see different parts of the world. Additionally, some programs can set you up for great internships. For example, I studied in London and the program was set up to take classes for 8 weeks and then intern (I personally interned in RBS working for the syndication team) for 8 weeks.
Honestly dude, when else in your life can you just decide to go live in some different country? Once you start working, they answer is "probably never." If you hate it, you know there is only a set amount of time that you have to endure it anyways.
Skinnayyy nailed it. I can tell you now, if you're not "open" to being somewhat social, you're going to sit in your room and think you made a mistake.
I studied a semester abroad during my bachelor's and did my master's abroad. The time during the bachelor's was mostly spent partying and traveling, and I had the time of my life. As GuyFawkes mentioned, there is no better time in your life to get out and do something like this. Use it wisely. I did my master's abroad and it wasn't all fun and games anymore. Sure, I got to travel and have fun here and there, but the school workload was crazy compared to any bachelor semester (I guess that's what comes with a one-year master program). In that sense, maybe you should save it for a period in which you KNOW the workload will be a lot. Even then, I would urge you to get out and meet others and socialize. After all, culture is the largest piece of studying abroad. If you aren't out eating, drinking, partying, traveling, etc., with foreign friends, you aren't using the time the best.
Thank you all for the advice.
I understand what you're all saying, but I'm simply not the type of person that goes out to travel, party, drink, ect.
Given this, is the experience worthwhile as a 'resume booster'?
TrialandError made an excellent point. The school's academic credentials will be my primary focus in deciding which institution I attend. Even so, most people talk about studying abroad in the context of travelling, partying, drinking, ect. This makes me wonder as to whether it is worth the academic experience alone.
No offense man, but you sound like a loser. I'm not saying you have to want to go out to bars/clubs and go crazy, but you truly have no interest in living in an awesome foreign country(with the ability to travel to other regional countries) and learning about a new culture? That's pretty lame, which means you must be pretty lame.
I had spent a fair amount of time in Europe, but I still went back for my study abroad and visited/revisted over 15 places while I was there. Traveling is one of the best things one can do for personal development. It truly broadens your perspective and makes you a more interesting person in general. I love talking to people who are well traveled and can speak to and understand a variety of different things.
With all that being said, from your responses it sounds like you shouldn't go. If none of what I, or anyone else has said, motivates you to be excited about this opportunity, then you should stay at home and sit in front of your computer like you want to. You sound like the typical nerds that I bump into in Silicon Valley all the time. They live in their bubble and they're happy to stay there. The fact that you're only considering doing this just as a potential "resume booster" shows how out of touch you are.
I completely understand what you're saying.
Look - I've had a unique life and didn't have the same upbringing other kids did. My experiences have turned me into what I am today. My sole focus in life is to just make it to where I want to be. This sounds pathetic but unless you've had the experiences I've had, then there's no way you could understand. I don't have the luxury of having 'fun' and experiencing life in the way most others do.
Sob-story aside, if you all think that going abroad is not worth it for the individual I have described in this thread, then I'll take your advice.
From a purely academic/professional perspective, is it worth going?
Yes, look into programs like LSE that offers Finance courses. Recruiters found that experience to be interesting and indicative of my interest in Finance while also giving the opportunity to talk about my travel experiences and what I learned during the courses. I suggest taking corporate finance (I think it's just called Finance) and Debt Markets. Should set you up nicely.
I think I forgot to answer from a purely academic perspective, so I apologize for that. Are you from the US? As you know, we have several great schools here. I would also say that, at least in Europe, The UK has several great schools and the Netherlands does as well (look up rankings). However, whether an interviewer is going to be impressed is solely on an individual basis. I've had some interviewers say "Oh, that is so cool!" and others not even mention it. Plus, even though the school where I got my master's is highly regarded, no one in the Midwest US has heard of it. I've had to mention its world subject ranking on my resume so that interviewers don't think it's some community college.
From a studies perspective, switching abroad might "waken" you to a new style of studying and may force you to catch up to speed on your weak topics in a quick manner. For example, I was used to having a few tests per class in my bachelor's, and the master's abroad had one exam at the end that usually accounted for 80% of the grade. A group project accounted for the balance. That meant the last 2 weeks were serious crunch time, as you had to recap things you learned months ago, rather than learning and being tested in a "section" format. Also, my bachelor's program could have done better with statistics. I was officially lost in my master's econometrics class by the third class, and it only got worse, so I had to play catch up the entire semester.
Fair, everyone has different life experiences and can make decisions for themselves. It sounds like you're a unique case, so everyone's advice on here probably won't be relevant. From a purely academic standpoint it would only be worth going if the schooling is better in whatever country you're looking at vs institutions in the US. I would imagine that some of the top schools(Oxford, LSE, Cambridge) might have good programs if they relate to what you want to do. With that being said, if you're looking for jobs in the US they probably won't be better than going to a similar place here in the US. It would probably help everyone if you stated what your long term goal was as that will be key to what decision you make.
Wish I went, biggest regret so far...But I also had gpa issues and It would of killed me financially so at the time I never pulled the trigger.
I studied abroad in Europe. It's always one of the first things that my interviewers ask me about, so it definitely holds some of that "interesting/unique" aspect. Plus, I always like to elaborate about how I worked with people of different cultures, how I was able to adapt and learn in new and unfamiliar environments, and how that would translate into my professional work ethic (so very useful for behavioral parts of interviews).
I got a pretty decent offer now after months of desperation, and I think it's because the MD that I interviewed with really hit it off during first round. Talking about study abroad allowed us to all share humorous stories about being abroad, other cultures, and it led to a casual conversational interview that I aced, even though my stats were arguably worse than some of the other applicants in contention for the job.
That said, if it's for the summer (esp. junior summer), I would go for internships, as they still hold more weight than study abroad. Only study abroad during the academic year.
Thank you all for the advice.
I am a Mathematics and Statistics and Computer Science double major, currently attending a 'target' Australian university. I spend my free time analysing companies from a fundamental perspective (valuation, ect), as well as developing quantitative strategies. My primary goal is to work in investment management, but I am open to trying any other fields of finance that would provide good experience.
I have compiled the following list, from the overall list that my university offers.
United Kingdom:
University College London
United States:
Colorado State University Indiana University Rice University University of Illinois at Urbana Champaign University of Notre Dame du Lac University of Texas at Austin University of Washington
Canada:
McGill University Queens University University of Toronto
Of the schools on this list and given the context I have provided above, which would you all suggest from an academic perspective?
I'm American so I'll only speak for those universities, although I know the University of Toronto is considered the best school in Canada.
CSU - The worst American school you listed on here. Colorado is a beautiful state with awesome people, but I wouldn't really recommend CSU. Now, I can't really speak for their programs, but they definitely have the worst reputation overall on the American list.
Indiana University - A pretty good school, and Bloomington is a nice little town. I know they have a solid IB workshop, so that might be of interest to you (although I don't know if study abroad students could participate). I'm sure you could make some good connections there, and they definitely have some presence on Wall Street.
Rice University - Arguably the most prestigious school out of all the American universities you listed. A very good school with a beautiful campus. The only problem is that it's not a true target (in fact, none of the American schools you listed are) due to its location in the south. However, it is a very good school with a good name, so take that FWIW.
Illinois - I don't know much about Illinois, but if I'm not mistaken, they are very good in math/stats/CS. I'll let others chime in.
ND - Along with Rice, the best American school on your list. A pretty good presence on Wall Street with a solid name. A good mix of academics and social life.
UT-Austin - The biggest party school on your list, and a pretty good school too. Huge alumni support, damn fun city, and good weather. If you didn't know much about football before coming to America, you would after leaving UT (although their team isn't that good right now, but I digress). Can't really speak for their CS/math/stat programs, but I'd assume they would be at the very least decent.
UW - Seattle is an awesome city (IMO), but it's really rainy and pretty depressing in the winter months. UW is a solid school, and I think their programs in math/CS are pretty good, but they don't have much of a presence in finance. Like I said though, Seattle is really cool, and the campus is awesome.
Considering that you go to a target school in Australia, I'm assuming that is where you'll work after graduation. If that's the case, I don't know how much the name of the school you studied abroad at matters (someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this). I'm pretty confident in guessing that most Australians have probably never even heard of Indiana or Illinois. It could just come down to what you think is best for you. I recommend talking to students/alumni who have studied at all of the schools on your list to get a better idea (especially from the perspective of another Aussie).
As for the actual experience, it's all what you make of it. I'm an introvert and don't really care for partying that much, but I will be studying abroad in Europe next year. I think you should really consider throwing yourself out there, and studying abroad kinda forces you to do that since you will know practically no one. This sounds cliché, but it really is a once in a lifetime experience. Traveling is the coolest thing you can do IMHO. I hope you seriously consider it and find a good school that will you help you professionally and socially. I haven't gone abroad yet, so I can't really recommend anything, but I think it's something everyone should seriously think about doing if they can.
Sorry for the long post. I'm willing to answer any further questions you may have about America or those schools.
Thank you so much for the elaborate response.
I'd absolutely like to study and work in the US in the future. However, I don't think that is realistic straight out of college. As such, I'm thinking it's probably best to attend the most prestigious school on that list, so that the weight of the name carries through on my resume in the future. From reading your response, it seems that you'd suggest Rice or Notre Dame?
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