Recent HBS College Reject, Retake 740 GMAT?
I recently got rejected from HBS after applying directly from college. 740 GMAT/3.8GPA. I'm graduating in the spring, and working at a $1B AUM early-mid stage VC fund in the US.
I know that scores are valid for up to 5 years after I graduate. However, do schools keep the scores on record year after year after you've sent it to them once? I used my free score reports for Wharton, Stanford and Harvard after writing the GMAT.
1) If they do keep the scores and you don't need to resend them, then there is no risk in retaking in the event I have a bad day and get lower?
2) If I do retake, since I took it in senior year of college, will schools hold it against me as much as a regular applicant since I took it so early?
3) Should I retake or is the score adequate for my cohort?
Breakdown of my score is below
The breakdown of my gmat score is 50Q, 41V, 6.0 AWA. Quant was as expected, but verbal was significantly lower. I scored 45-46 Verbal, and 49/50 on Quant consistently on 3-4 GMAT Prep tests. If I retake I'm pretty confident I would get at least 760, if not 770.
1) Even if you don't resend them, they ask for all of your scores on the application. The only way I suspect you can get away with taking the test and not reporting it is if you retake the test AFTER submitting your application. 2) This is a mystery. From what I've heard, schools give the most credit to the most recent tests. If your performance declines over time, that's a bad thing. 3) You'd be absolutely crazy to retake. This will look negatively on your application. Focus on other areas to improve your position.
Ya, you were probably rejected because of lack of work experience, not a 97th percentile GMAT score.
Dude, you were not rejected because of your gmat score. Your numbers are above average for all the b-schools, including HBS. You were dinged for other reasons, such as ec's, lack of leadership, weak interview, etc.
You have a great job lined up. It's very tough to get into VC after college, so work there for a few years and then re-apply to HBS/Stanford/Wharton.
What do you know about business school?
haha that's a low blow Faddy, but funny
the average business school applicant has 5-7 years of work experience i believe, so it was probably lack of experience rather than anything else. i don't think it's worth the risk to re-take.
Thanks for the replies. I should clarify something: I applied to HBS 2+2, so experience wasn't the issue.
I didn't get an interview.
Extracurricular activities were as good as anybody's (wouldn't have been able to land the VC job otherwise). For example, independently pitched/did due diligence an innovation/commercialization related initiative to University Deans/President that got incorporated as a $1M component of a larger $10M project that launched. I had two other extracurricular projects that were maybe 75% of that sort of scale/impact.
I figured my GMAT didn't measure up to my peer group in finance given all the 760's, 770's floating around.
Sometimes you have to swallow your pride, get out of delusion land , and understand that no matter how good you think you are, there will always be someone as good as you or better than you.
If we go by your logic, your good GMAT score, your good extra-curricular activities should have put your feet in. But you also say that your peers who have better GMAT got your spot.
So come back to reality, and let's follow your logic: Someone better than you got the spot. So if you know that, stop turning into circle and ask us for a consolation prize.
No its because your in finance. 2+2 prefers non-finance folks
Heh. I don't need you tell me that. I spent the last month swallowing my pride. I was looking for constructive feedback on whether it was worth taking the GMAT again. I like how you automatically assume that I think I should have gotten in. Nobody has the right to assume that.
I never said my GMAT score is good, but nevertheless, point taken about my extracurricular activities. I'm sure there were a few who started companies that probably got venture funding during undergraduate that may have been admitted (but that would be hard as hell for my healthcare niche). It is what it is, and I'm searching for weak points that I can build on - I figured GMAT would be the easy starting point since I can't start a company out of the blue.
If you think that the GMAT score got you dinged, you will still get rejected because someone else will have higher GMAT (unless if you have a perfect score), better EC, and more leadership experience than you.
BTW, eat your shit back.
Sounds good. Following your logic, I should just never apply to business school again. =)
It's not my logic. It's yours and following your logic, you should not apply to HBS.
If you wish to apply to top business schools then one of the prerequisites is having significant work experience. Generally candidates have around 4-5 years of full time experience in spite of several term time projects or jobs; so you may be competing with other candidates who have 4-5 years of full time experience and have started significant initiatives at college. Hence, we would advise you to gain some full time work experience before you decide to apply for an MBA. You have great gmat score so don’t worry about that and work on other aspects of your profile.
He was applying for the 2+2.
Is your degree a BBA? 2+2 hates on BBAs
.
Tougher for finance guys to get into 2+2 as they see you as someone who will apply in 2 / 3 years anyway. The 2+2 target is those who would otherwise not apply to business school.
I'd suck it up and apply round 3 to Stanford. Stanford allows college seniors to choose when they want to matriculate. No need to retake the GMAT. Only a 780+ would materially enhance your chances.
You really have nothing to lose.
even if you're asian/indian, I don't think it's important to retake your GMAT. Focus on EC's and work experience for a couple years and then try H/S/W again.
also... did you go to a decent UG school? It's very hard to get into 2+2 unless you went to an ivy or other good school
No, sign up for the CFAs and take up technical diving (deco, cave diving, wreck penetration, etc.) or some other sport that sounds risky. We need to add a little class and sparkle to your resume. There's going to be a Heisman trophy winner sitting next to you, a Syrian who organized 100,000 villagers in a revolt against Assad sitting in front of you, and a girl who got elected to congress at 26 behind you.. What did you do to get into HBS? Oh, you dove the ANDREA DOREA in 320 feet of water. That's it. And of course, you're a banker. The test scores are fine, the GPA is fine, the work experience will probably be fine. We just need something that will make sure you can keep your chin up when you stand next to the college football star, the 25 year old Syrian rebel leader, and the federal congresswoman.
What caliber UG did you go to? If you are at a non-ivy or other top school, getting into HBS via 2+2 is extremely difficult. Also, do you know anyone who got in this year? If so, how does your credentials stack up to theirs?
Don't feel too bad though about getting dinged. There are kids at HYPS with 3.9+ gpa, 770+ gmat, and killer internships and EC's who got rejected at 2+2 this year. Just focus on your VC job after college and do HSW in a few years.
First world problems are so tough.....
Brady, I want to know what those kids' ECs are. I'm sorry, but chess club captain ain't gonna cut it for a math major with a 4.0 GPA and a quant job at DE Shaw.
I grit my teeth when Tim Ferriss's name comes up- but you have to respect the guy's marketing ability. After graduating from a school where most people (not all) are smart, he goes out and gets involved in kickboxing, in motorcycle racing, and other stuff. None of this is that difficult or risky to do, but he looks pretty tough on paper. And the assumption is that he graduated from a certain school, so he's also smart. Assuming he pulled off a 3.5 GPA, combined with the millions in book royalties, he would be a shoo-in at HBS. Even in his thirties.
Anyway, to the OP. Don't retake the GMAT. It will send the wrong signal making you look insecure. Do something exotic / international or get involved in a non-traditional sport / activity. Also, kill it at work and carpe diem... Good luck.
HBS wants people who are excellent scholars, leaders, and professionals, but if that is ALL there is to you, you're not going to get in. A successful application is like an old looney tunes cartoon where Sylvester gets run over by a stampede of animals, and just as he's about to get up- that last mouse running along behind the group runs over his nose and he collapses back to the ground. You can imagine the adcom:
"740 GMAT. Summa Cum Laude at UPenn. Level 3 CFA candidate. Has his name on three mergers. Volunteers at a soup kitchen. Strong recs."
The stampede hits.
"Great. He sounds like one of many qualified candidates."
"And oh by the way, last summer he organized an expedition up Mount Everest. "
BAM. The mouse just ran over Sylvester Cat, he's back on the ground, the scene cuts out and the orchestra plays. The adcom votes you in.
Yup. This is right. Harvard Business has the most impressive and accomplished student body out of any school, undergrad or grad, in the entire world. They're looking for the future movers and shakers. You need to do something truly exceptional to get in there.
In terms of the elite organizations of the world HBS is not really that exclusive. Just ask any Navy SEAL or Explorers Club member.
2+2 targets promising college kids who WEREN'T considering a career in business - they're targeting kids who want to be the next Bill Clinton or Bill Gates and showing them an alternative that isn't law school or science. You seem like you're dead set on business, already getting into VC. You're not what they're looking for.
In three years, for regular admissions, you might be. The 740 will do you just fine.
I think you guys over exaggerate the importance of differentiation (at least in the examples provided) and uniqueness of the types of people that get accepted to HBS. I am sure that most of us have friends and colleagues who got into HBS with fairly common backgrounds (3 years at a top consulting firm/bank/etc, 3.5 GPA, 720 GMAT, decent ECs but nothing exceptional). Admissions in general really is a crap-shoot and plenty of more than adequately qualified candidates get rejected.
The OP sounds like he is well on his way to getting into an M7 assuming that he progresses in his VC fund, takes on leadership roles and comes off as less boring (no offense but do you have anything to offer besides an interest in finance?).
I don't think we're exaggerating it. The substance of OP's application is in his work experience, recs, essays, and leadership. But 3x as many students as they have slots have all of that. How do they narrow it down by 2/3? It's partly random, but not completely. They are trying to build out a class, put together a dinner party filled with interesting people, and being a grind makes it tougher to get in. If you were a nerdy finance major but do cave diving, that helps. If you spent all four years playing lacrosse, volunteering as a docent at the Met and becoming an expert on the Hudson River School helps too. Harvard isn't exactly looking for well-roundedness but, they're looking for a large cross-product. All-star football player, Met docent. JPM Quant, skeleton or luge champ.
You need to make the cut from 100% down to 25%. I think most people who can make it to wall street and decide to aim for HBS can pull that off. But making it from 25% to 8% is about who the adcom wants to invite to the dinner party. It gets very nuanced and the decisions probably do depend on what side of the bed everyone got up on, but it is not 100% random.
From the HBS website:
"Can I list only my best GMAT or GRE score? Yes. We review only the score from a single test sitting that you present in your application."
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/faq/#gmat
Tim Ferriss annoys me for some reason. That "supplement" company he started and hyped sounds like a bunch of BS. I'm probably just jealous.
Wish I had a 4HWW.
Ilini, I completely agree with you and I was not implying that it is completely random once you pass the smell test. I was stating that the lengths that you need to go to differentiate yourself are a bit exaggerated. You do not need to have started a non-profit organization in Africa, be a professional race car driver, etc. to have impressive ECs.
Adcomms simply want to take the most qualified and most well-rounded candidates in order to fill out a class. I 100% agree with the dinner party analogy and that was my point to the OP. He needs to be more than numbers and finance, he needs to demonstrate that he is passionate about and competent in things outside of business.
My main point is that there ARE normal people with normal backgrounds that attend HBS. They are not all super-heroes curing cancer.
I think he stated in an interview once that he was working on "improving the backflip." Why am I reminded of a five-year-old shouting "look what I can do!"
But the man is a marketing genius. He can make you want to buy a useless book or buy BS supplements. Then he goes out and brags about not just being a kickboxing champion and motorcycle racer, but also being a bestselling author. Then he leverages that to sell another book.
Focus on being a person of substance with hard technical value to offer first. THEN focus on marketing it. I guess what irritates me about Ferriss is that he either pretends he has never done a hard day's work in his life- or he truly HASN'T done a hard day's work in his life. Either way, it is very annoying.
Either/or? I hate them both. Tebow for his endless proselytising, and Ferriss for the gigantic beach ball where his ego is supposed to be.
On-topic: I get the feeling that a lot of the admissions at the top schools are pretty much luck-based. Wharton's Deputy Director of Admissions stated that something like 80% of the candidates who apply there each year are qualified for admissions, which coupled with their ~15% admissions rate means to me that there has to be a lot of dice-rolling involved in the admissions process.
So, to OP: Take a chill pill. You seem to be doing great so far, and I don't see any reason why at least one of the M7 (or LBS/Insead/whatever) wouldn't accept you a couple of years down the road.
Interesting thoughts.
Perhaps this is the naivety of recently graduating from college, but anything short of Harvard/Stanford/Wharton just seems like failure given that 80% of the VCs I know with MBAs (ignoring those with PhD's or MD's) have some affiliation with those three schools.
It seems logical to conclude that something is wrong with me specifically (hence the GMAT question), as opposed to being the victim of random luck in the process, given that everybody else in my industry with a MBA is effectively HSW.
I see why you got rejected.
You are so fucked up.
Logic, logic
Don't worry.. being in VC/finance, this won't be the first time you'll have to deal with randomness...
Well, here's what somebody else with more PE/VC experience has to say. What's the point of doing a MBA that doesn't increase your probability of career advancement in your industry?
"I'm an associate at a large PE fund, and the associates here definitely consider Wharton to be their back-up school. Not that they wouldn't go there if it is the only place they were admitted, but they definitely consider there to be a substantial gap between H/S and Wharton.
The reason is that all the top PE shops primarily recruit at H and S (although some certainly do at W as well). Also, nearly all the partners went to H or S. So the perception is that if you want to get a VP job at a large fund, you need to get into H or S."
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/round-2-hbs-dings
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