Relationship Question: Not the usual one

So, as someone who used to be on the answering side of this, I was hoping for various viewpoints on what I should do. I'm going to dismiss the money before hoes answers straight off the bat. If you have that opinion, express it in more words and make your case.

My situation is as follows:

Live and work in London, Big 4 (non audit, think a hybrid of assurance and consulting, I do data analytics). I turn 30 in October. My partner turns 26 in July. She's a supply chain manager at a big german manufacturer, living in northern Germany (near Hamburg).

For our relationship to have any future, we need to live together. Thing is, where. If I move to our Hamburg office, i'm going from a global centre of finance to an at best regional office, and my grasp of german is poor. Yes I can learn better while living there, but I'm a numbers person, not a linguist. I am fluent french, but only from working in Quebec after university.

If I move to the Hamburg office, it's certainly a handicap to my career. If she moves to London, she'll need to change companies, away from a ridiculously good deal she gets from current place (german unions etc.), and also London doesnt really have any logistics companies, so she'll need to move to consulting or similar. Which she is reluctant to do.

Now, there are other cities that would host both jobs, but coordinating that would be really difficult. It's not like she can apply to Boston, I apply to our office too and we both get accepted at the same time. There will be a period of when I'm going and she might not be, or vice versa.

The catch for me, is that we are ridiculously good together. She is the younger sister to 2 brothers, so understands guys, is german so very efficient and organised (I'm a little chaotic so its a good balance), is still very feminine, damn good looking and works really hard to make my life awesome, and I do the same for her. While you say there are plenty more fish in the sea etc. I'm not sure I'd find another one like this for a very long time. Caveat that with she wants kids in about 6 years time, when I'm not sure I even want them at all (can envisage a happy life both with and without them), and I strongly disagree with marriage, but only from the financial consequences, where she wants it from the signing medical documents side of things and general female marriageishappy stuff).

However, that last paragraph means zip if our lives aren't compatible.

So if anyone can think of a solution to the above, I'd be really grateful, but I'd be more interested in hearing your thought approach and how you would reach your decision. If we split up, I'd move straight to our US office and join a friend who lives in San Fran and just enjoy my early 30s. This will be the last serious relationship I have for a while, I'm giving up a fair amount of my life to do list by being in it anyway, and I'm well aware that the top regrets of dying guys is not sleeping around when younger.

 
Best Response

From my perspective, I think one of the first things I picked up on was her wanting kids and you not being entirely sold on them. Obviously, anyone can change over time but if you aren't 100% on having kids in the next few years and she is I think that could become a big sticking point. Especially when you are both uprooting your lives for one another. To me, your solution if you want to stay together would be to immediately start looking for cities that you both would be agreeable with and begin working towards getting jobs there. Even if one of you moves first, it isn't substantially different than where you are now in being apart from one another and another few months shouldn't be a deal breaker at this point. I think, from my vantage point and if I were in your shoes, that is the most palatable option (obviously) and allows you both to build your new life in a new city and 'start over' so to speak. If the stress of all that is too much for the relationship, or if you think it could be, I think that is just as much a warning sign as anything else. By the way, how long have you been together? I don't think I saw that up top.

Logic really goes out the window here. Frankly, the most logical decision would be to going straight to the US immediately to enjoy the fruits of your career and your early thirties with a buddy. In my opinion, if the allure of that is so strong that you are asking for other opinions and thoughts, I'd probably advise you to go and do it. You certainly won't get another shot at it and in five years I'm certain you can find someone who is just as compatible with you if you decide that you want to settle down. I think, at the end of the day, it comes down to whether you'll be satisfied with not knowing what could have been with her if you split it off. Honestly, the best advice I can give you is to go with whatever your gut says as generally that is the best course of action.

 

Tough one bro, I'm in a not too dissimilar situation myself. This might sound trite but this is what relationships are all about. You sacrifice freedom to be selfish for the benefits of partnership. Best advice I could give is to think about it in these terms. If you were to move to her and your career stagnated after 5-10 years would she be enough? If yes, proceed. If no, ignore the problem until it ceases to be a problem or blows up in your face*.

  • Or have an adult conversation about it in advance but I've never tried that alors do so at your own peril.
 

Singapore. Tons of your job and tons of shipping/logistics and if you get married it'll be easy to move back to the States at some point in the future.

Regarding kids, and let me say I'm 40 with 2 kids: when my wife and I got together in out mid 20's she definitely wanted kids at some point, probably the same timeframe as your girlfriend, and I just hadn't really thought about it. I wasn't against them, I was just ambivalent. Hadn't given it serious thought like most guys. Same through our early 30's. Eventfully after we did a lot of cool stuff, kids sounded good. It doesn't happen to every guy but unless you're really against having kids, in 6 years time in your later 30's there's a good chance you'll want them. Not 100%, but a good chance.

As an aside, from what I see on WSO SF is a desert for good looking women. I lived there in the 90's and it was a bachelors paradise but it seems to have changed.

 

If you're not on the same page regarding kids and the concept of marriage you are just delaying an inevitable split. I also think it is difficult to accurately assess the long term potential of a relationship when you are not living together. The whole dynamic changes. I would ask her to move to London (only if you are 100% committed to her for the long term) and would not even consider moving to Hamburg.

 

From the NYC/CT area. I think my comment is pretty universal though. Also, lots of young guys believe that having a serious gf/wife/kids will hold them back in their careers but I have seen the opposite in many cases. A good woman will support you and keep you grounded. Added responsibilities generally motivate people and living for someone other than yourself is profoundly inspiring.

 

I went through something similar when deciding what to do with leaving the military/pursuing an MBA. It's difficult when one person moves for another; if things don't go well career wise, there will be a lot of resentment felt by the party that moved. Moreover, the party that was stationary will likely feel a lot of guilt, and stick with the other person longer than they should (if the relationship turns south). This will lead to a longer period of unhappiness as you try to stick it out when you should really bail.

My advice is to dual move; if not, her moving to London if she's up for a career change. I wouldn't sweat the kids thing; as DingDong08 said, things change over time. Make it through the next few years first.

I know the distance thing is tough, but you can do it. I did it for 3.5 years after all. Now we're happily married, co-located, and both of our careers are on a upward trajectory. I'm very glad we didn't rush things to co-locate faster. An extra year apart to set up the right transition may be all it takes. Talk it out and come up with a short list of cities (no more than 3), and then start working toward them. Once you match up, pull the trigger.

 

I did something similar. Don't do it.

  • I care more about my career than I thought I would and regret the move
  • Relationship loses some of its magic when you move in together / live together. You won't believe me cause you think you're special (I thought I was special too
  • She felt guilty for being part of the reason I moved and actually ended up resenting me for feeling that way at the beginning

Wish I would have followed what John Doe described above.

 

What does your heart want? I will say that if you move and some time goes by and you feel like you made a mistake, you will know and you will go back to what feels more right. It may even happen after you leave your job or find a new apartment. Something inside you will stop you from leaving- if that is what you really want.

********"Babies don't cost money, they MAKE money." - Jerri Blank********
 

I think people overstate the disagreement on kids - that seems to describe most men and women at a certain stage of their lives, doesn't it? Huge caveat, though - the woman's desire for kids probably isn't going away, if the relationship lasts, it's probably because the dude caves in.

I have no career-centric advice or warnings about letting love interfere with your monetary goals, etc. I'd probably follow the girl. But that's just me. Yes, there are other women, but if this one is special to you, I consider it worth the risk.

 

Hamburg without German language skills is not realistic. It's a nice city, but not very international. There is not a large expat community, and there are few jobs that you can do without speaking German. I don't know about your employer, but I would be surprised that they would let you transfer offices just like that. Germans generally have reasonable English language skills, but as a consultant you need to speak their language (unless you bring some highly specialized unique expertise). And German language skills are not something you will just pick up on the job. The most cosmopolitan city in Germany would be Frankfurt, but even there English-only jobs are quite rare.

Given that you are still relatively young and have been together for only 2 years, it may be a bit early, but you should have a serious conversation with your girlfriend about what the two of you want to do long-term. From my experience, it is not easy for both parties in a relationship to pursue ambitious careers. What happens if you (or your girlfriend) get a promotion that requires you to move somewhere else? Who is giving up their job in this case? Who will put their career on hold when the kids come?

It might be possible that your girlfriend is actually waiting for a commitment from your side - could it be that she would happily give up her job and move to London if you buy a ring today? How would you support her financially if she joins you in London and doesn't find a job quickly?

From what you write, it doesn't sound like you are ready to make that commitment. In that case, I wouldn't rush it. Could you like for more pragmatic, temporary solutions? Could you ask your employer to be assigned to a project in Germany for half a year for example (not easy without the language skills, but wouldn't hurt to try)? Just to test how living together feels like first.

 

Just to give you some insights. Hamburg is actually considered top notch in Germany. It is with Düsseldorf and Munich one of the top locations for consulting/assurance/advisory etc... I have no idea how difficult a transition would be since you don't speak the language, but it seems like your best bet to switch to the hamburg office. If you are good at your job it shouldn't matter whether you are at the london or hamburg office. Once again, I have no idea how the language skills might hinder your career.

 

A lot of great points and suggestions.

A few other things to consider and talk about with her. How many kids does she want? Does she see herself working after having the kid? Who makes more money now and potentially in the future? What kind of life style do you want with kids in the future--can it be accomplished on one salary or do you need two?

Having an idea of where you want to be and see each other in 10 years will dictate what steps have that should happen now.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 

I would agree with John Doe.

If I was you, I would first consider this scenario: You break up with her because of all the concerns you have, but then you realize that you are emotionally attached and it starts affecting your performance at work and your everyday life. But it is too late to bring things back to their original state.

The above, of course, is hypothetical and sometimes relationships are 'reinforced' by split-ups, because both parties got the chance to realize that something special was going on between them. The thing about having kids might be a good question to consider though. If you are 100% certain that you do not want kids at any time and you have not discussed it with her while being in this relationship at this stage of your lives, it may end up causing harm.

A lot of theorycrafting can be done, but there was a good point above stating that if you have already posted here then you may simply be seeking confirmation to pull the trigger. Even if you do so, make sure that it is in a fashion that leaves a door open.

 

I will reiterate the point that you should do some soul-searching and decide if getting married and having kids is something you really want, because there's a good chance the issue can make or break any long term future with this girl.

There's no sense in making a whole bunch of life altering decisions for a relationship that doesn't have much hope in the long-term.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
 
LeveragedTiger:

I will reiterate the point that you should do some soul-searching and decide if getting married and having kids is something you really want, because there's a good chance the issue can make or break any long term future with this girl.

There's no sense in making a whole bunch of life altering decisions for a relationship that doesn't have much hope in the long-term.

This is by no means a critique of you, but I'd like to see a WSO poll of people who want or have offspring and those who don't. Break it down by age. WallStreetOasis.com

 
Dingdong08:
LeveragedTiger:
I will reiterate the point that you should do some soul-searching and decide if getting married and having kids is something you really want, because there's a good chance the issue can make or break any long term future with this girl.
There's no sense in making a whole bunch of life altering decisions for a relationship that doesn't have much hope in the long-term.

This is by no means a critique of you, but I'd like to see a WSO poll of people who want or have offspring and those who don't. Break it down by age. @WallStreetOasis.com

That would definitely be an interesting poll.

Cursory browsing of WSO suggests there are a lot of people with the "fuck commitments and kids, work/cash money is life bro!" posters on this board, but I'd wager most of them are still in school or haven't had much life outside of the analyst trenches so not exactly an informed opinion if you ask me.

"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
 
Dingdong08:
LeveragedTiger:
I will reiterate the point that you should do some soul-searching and decide if getting married and having kids is something you really want, because there's a good chance the issue can make or break any long term future with this girl.
There's no sense in making a whole bunch of life altering decisions for a relationship that doesn't have much hope in the long-term.

This is by no means a critique of you, but I'd like to see a WSO poll of people who want or have offspring and those who don't. Break it down by age. @WallStreetOasis.com

@"AndyLouis"

Make the poll a matrix:

Age range buckets in columns

Have kids, want kids, do not want kids in rows

Would actually be interesting to see the results.

 
Dingdong08:
LeveragedTiger:
I will reiterate the point that you should do some soul-searching and decide if getting married and having kids is something you really want, because there's a good chance the issue can make or break any long term future with this girl.
There's no sense in making a whole bunch of life altering decisions for a relationship that doesn't have much hope in the long-term.

This is by no means a critique of you, but I'd like to see a WSO poll of people who want or have offspring and those who don't. Break it down by age. @WallStreetOasis.com

I plan on breeding to create a master race

 

Thanks for the mostly helpful comments so far. We have started to have serious chats about this. The major challenge I have is while a lot of people say they didn't want kids in life and later change their mind. I'm really not sure that will happen to me. I am a little odd in that regard, so very hesitant to believe I'll change. Would like to hear it from a very like minded person and also speak to those that didn't have kids and find out why too.

 

Sounds like you created this problem for yourself by entering into a long distance relationship

I don't think anyone here can answer this question because ultimately it comes down to an entirely personal question: what is more important to you, your career or this one girl

Side note, no one can know what the future will hold, so you have to base your decision on what is true and known currently

 

we are social creature and we need companionship. most of us settle for the "one night at a time" approach and while some of us love it, most do it for lack of better options. the way you described her and how you are together etc. tell me you are in love bruh ... if you don't know it yet, but read what you wrote and think about it. women like that are not easy to find so i suggest you hold on tight. what John-Doe8 wrote is spot on. you gone this long, give it some more time to get it right, but don't do it in silence. take the time and talk about it together and formulate a plan and when the time is right go for it. as to kids, if you are not sure that means you haven't ruled them out. as men kids are a way to ensure we live on and carry our bloodline forward. I am one of those people who in general is not a big fan of kids, but even I admit that I want them one day. unless I become president (unlikely) or defeat an invading alien armada by stealing one of their ships and launching a computer virus and a nuke on the enemy mother ship (close enough to July 4 where i thought that reference was appropriate! :)) my children will be my legacy, not my work. i think most of us come to that realization at some stage in our life so don't let that be the deal breaker. good luck to you man.

"I'm talking about liquid. Rich enough to have your own jet. Rich enough not to waste time. Fifty, a hundred million dollars, buddy. A player. Or nothing. " -GG
 

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