Rice MBA vs SMU MBA (+ $50k scholarship funding)
I am in a dilemma. I was recently admitted to the MBA full time program at Rice. I also have a pending offer from the SMU MBA full time program w/ $50k scholarship. My post graduate goal is to break into IM/AM (buy side institutional analyst preferable). I know I'll have hustle in order to get this type of position but I would consider another gig (IB, trading, etc) if I am not able to land a buy side position right after graduating, in hopes to land a buyside position shortly down the road.
I don't have a preference between the cities of Dallas or Houston.
I would like to stay in Texas after graduating, (prefer Austin although opportunities maybe limited).
The avg. salary at Rice is $10k more than SMU, so Rice may be the better long term investment. I know SMU is great in the DFW area same as how Rice is great in the Houston area. But again, I have no preference in those areas. I would prefer Rice, but the $50k scholarship from SMU makes this a tough decision.
What would you recommend? Which school presents the most opportunity for my goals (IM in Austin)?
About me:
4 yr exp w/ major FS firm (2 yrin Back Office Ops/ 2 yr in brkg services)
CFA Level I Candidate
Rejected by McCombs MBA
Keep in mind that most of the disparities in salaries is where alumni go after they graduate, not the normalized earnings power of the aggregate class in a comparable city. Companies don't have a spreadsheet that says, "OK, We're going to offer $90k to anyone who walks in from Rice, and 80k for anyone who walks in from SMU". SMU graduates have a tendency to stay in Texas, where that network is most powerful, where Rice is somewhat more national. More people living in NYC = higher average salaries, even though the standard of living is the same (or arguably lower). Anyhow, companies want to retain high quality talent - once you get to the interview stages, it's on you to impress them and determine how much they want to hold onto you - not your school.
I would take SMU and the scholarship if you're planning to stay in Texas. You won't earn more in Austin for being a Rice graduate as opposed to being an SMU one. They both have about equivalent clout inside Texas.
I'm surprised SMU gave you money and Rice didn't. If you want to do IM, I would go with SMU as Dallas has a stronger buyside community relative to Houston.
Rice is better for banking and/or energy.
Fluorian/Cartwright, thanks for your input.
According to the most recent employment report, Rice placed 6% of its most recent graduating class in the northeast, so I don't think the Rice's avg. salary is skewed too much due to their placement in the NE.
Regardless, I think you're absolutely right about we are going to offer X amount to Rice graduates and Y amount to SMU graduates. Its about you, not the school.
But this statistic alarms me the most:
Students who did not report having received a job offer within 3 months of graduation: Rice: 16% SMU: 33%
Rice does have a deep connection with the largest fund in Austin (the CIO is a Rice Alum and a few students intern/place there each year). Also, Rice's curriculum seems stronger and I think they'll continue to climb the rankings.
But the $50k ($25k/yr) that SMU is offering and the deep connection SMU has with the DFW buyside community (if I can't land a buyside position in Austin, landing a buyside position in DFW maybe the best path for IM in Austin), is why this such a tough decision.
Much appreciation for the $.02. Feel free to add anything else.
Keep in mind that you're planning on being on the job market in 2013, not 2011. The numbers for both schools were >80% prior to the crash, but in a non-normal economic situation, things are skewed off a bit.
When you say the biggest fund in Austin, I assume you mean a hedge fund? Or Texas Teachers? Somehow I doubt there's anything in Austin remotely close to Texas Teachers or the PUF.
Dimensional is huge. Around $200 billion I believe
Florian why aren't you recommending UTD on this thread, the one that's actually talking about MBA programs?
I'm not some mindless troll, unlike some people trying to start a fight in another thread for no reason at all. 50k scholarship to SMU is a very nice opportunity, and I've said my piece about UTD already. He asked a question and I gave an honest answer, how about you attempt to limit your posts to that, rather than personal attacks?
Brady Hoke, that you?
SMU has struggled in placement but I would still recommend it over Rice if you want to do buyside. The money further solidifies that choice. I think the struggle is due to the fact that SMU stresses finding a job via networking more than OCI, so you might have students that dont follow formal recruiting and thus is takes them longer to secure something.
I wouldn't rely on one alum as proof of anything. I assume you are referring to DFA as the biggest fund in Austin (outside of govt entities). That place is like working for a computer overlord, though their office is pretty cool.
I meant the Texas Teacher's Retirement Fund.
Cartwright,
I agree. I can't rely on one alum as proof, but it seems that Rice is a pipeline for TRS b/c a few students from Rice intern and get placed there each year.
Can you elaborate about what you've heard about DFA?
As far as IB goes, bulge brackets only go to Rice and UT in Texas.
Ya that absolutely couldn't be less accurate. SMU places a lot of students into BB positions and Baylor does a few as well.
This is for MBA. I don't think any BBs recruit at Hankamer or Cox (for banking). I don't think any go to Baylor undergrad either. A few might be able to network in from there
Sorry homey but Robinho is correct. At the MBA level UT and Rice dominate associate recruiting, and are the only schools that have multiple BB's participating in IB recruiting (i'm sure smu gets some PWM love). The breakdown from UT v. Rice may vary from year to year, but combined they take about 95% of the summer associate slots in H-town, with 4% going to the HBS/Chicago/etc crowd that want to do energy. Maybe the last 1% come from the non-core schools, and that might be generous.
I've never even met a Baylor mba, much less one in IB. SMU it's doable, but challenging and not due to OCI...gotta do your own leg work and have pretty solid pre-MBA experience. There is one kid from Cox summering in Houston this year but he was an accountant at an MLP pre-mba. I didn't meet any full timers from Cox.
Undergrad is a different story.
Only at the Analyst level. And definitely not "a lot".
CIO of TRS was an Aggie..
It looks like Lee Patridge, the former CIO who is a Rice alum, resigned last year to start his own thing. The New CIO is a Aggie MBA and went to Sam Houston State for his undergrad.
I visited both campuses (Rice and SMU) and from my visits, I could tell that the students at Rice were more intelligent/mature. I know Rice is on the rise and I think it should be a top 20 school pretty soon.
But the money SMU is offering and access to the all the buy side shops in the DFW area that SMU has maybe too good to pass up.
Difficult Decision
Cheese, Aggie MBA or undergrad?
Not sure, but def. an Aggie.
hate to say it but neither of them are really IM powerhouses :MBA which may have similar entrance reqs but places better? granted you want to stay in texas so the texas schools stay there.. and from what i heard i know Rice has kids intern at TRS but i dont know how many have actually received fulltime
No, didn't apply to CMU. I figured it was a long shot and its best to stay in Texas since I will probably want to stay in Texas post grad (unless I was accepeted to a top 15 school).
If you want to be in Texas post grad you should get an MBA in Texas. HBS/Wharton/Chicago are one thing but it makes no sense to go to Duke or Michigan or others of that ilk only to have to recruit against Texas kids. Now if you meant that you would try to work in new York if you went to those schools that's a different conversation.
I'd take SMU and the 50k. The (minimal) difference in opportunities from going to Rice is not worth 50k.
How badly do you need the MBA right now? Mccombs sounds perfect for you. You are in state and want to work in Austin; it would be just a hair more than the SMU MBA as well.
You only get one shot at branding yourself with a MBA, so why not make it the best one possible? MBAs all cost about the same, so, if you waited a year, you could get more work experience, get a higher GMAT, and shoot for MBA business schools ">M7 as well as Mccombs.
Some are suggesting to go the IB>IM route, since heading straight into IM from B-School is not an easy task and IB will open a lot more doors (HF, PE, IM).
Obviously, between Rice and SMU, Rice will give me a lot better chance in the IB route.
Leaving UT out of the picture, Rice has a stronger alumni base in energy finance in Houston. I'm not so sure about Dallas. Some good firms like TPH loves Rice kids because of alumni. I don't like to say this (because the same can possibly be said about Yale SOM or Fuqua Duke), but because of the strength/reputation of Rice's undergraduate institution, there is a "halo" effect with the MBA program that will make the Rice University name on your resume pop out more than SMU.
Call me crazy but I decided to attend Rice for the following reasons:
1) Better academics - vigorous curriculum -The best MBA academics in the state of Texas. McCombs has a larger brand and provides more career options than Rice, but the finance curriculum at Rice is slightly stronger, in my opinion, than McCombs.
2) On the rise - Rice didn't care about its rankings until recently. They have the funds (4th largest endowment per capita) to become a top 20 B-school. Yes, rankings are not everything, but people look at them.
3) Better Employment Numbers - The following are the Class of 2010 Employment Stats for both schools:
Median Salary: Rice - $96k SMU - $81k Avg. Salary Bonus Rice - $20k SMU - $16.5k % receiving bonus Rice - 55% SMU - 25% Avg. Salary in Fin/Acct Function - Rice - $96k SMU - $77k Avg. Salary in the SW Region - Rice - $92.5k SMU - $83k % of grads placed in the Fin. Services industry - Rice 27% SMU 29% Avg. current Salary for Class of 2007 graduates (per Financial Times) Rice - $118k SMU - $103k
Based on these numbers alone, Rice is the better long term investment. I included the placement numbers for the regions and functions to indicate that Rice's numbers, in comparison to SMU, are not inflated due to placement in the NE region or in the Finance function. Obviously, I shouldn't base my decision solely on these figures, as salary isn't entirely determined by which MBA school an individual attends, but I believe these numbers are more of a reflection of how well Rice prepares it students to obtain better paying jobs. FYI, McCombs had the best numbers out of all the TX MBA programs.
4) The "Halo" effect that electriclighto mentioned above. Rice definitely has a wow factor.
5) Better fit/culture for me (More diversity at Rice, students are more laid back/chill/less competitive)
SMU offered the $$, a larger network, DFW buy side opportunities, less humid, but I think Rice, despite the extra $$ I'll spend, is the wise choice for me.
Durant35, Glad to see you are attending Rice. I am a strong lean there also. Are you already located in Houston?
I don't disagree that rice is a great program if you want work in Houston...Best MBA academics in the state of Texas? I think McCombs might argue with you there...especially in accounting and finance. The only specialized category rice ranked in was entrepreneurship...at 14th. I think everyone says they don't care about rankings while they are being excluded from them.
But I concur on the rice > smu assessment.
Tesh84, no, I'm not located in Houston. I'm glad you are considering Rice, which other school(s) are you considering?
I've thoroughly checked out both schools (sat in classes, spoke to students/alum/profs) and it seemed to me that the academics in Finance at Rice was slightly stronger than McCombs (again, in my opinion). I was under this impression before I received my rejection for McCombs, which was my top choice.
According to the Financial Times Rankings of MBA schools by subject, Rice is ranked #4 in the world in Finance and #9 in the world in accounting.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/74b8bd3e-06a4-11df-b426-00144feabdc0.html#axz…
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