RIM coming out with an IPAD competitor

Blank999's picture
Rank: The Pro | 40,449

Sell RIM. They are on their death bed.

  • They are rumored to call it the "blackpad"
  • No connection to Verizon, simply wifi and tethering
  • It's selling point is because it is so integrated with corporate email

Let me see. Blackberry put out a shit touch screen. The second version of the touch screen was slightly better. Now they want to put out a tablet? Why oh why are companies utterly retarded? Apply is a computer company. They have Mac Books, desktops, Itunes, Ipods, etc. The Ipad was a normal extension of their core products and build on integrating all of their devices. It works off their developed app store, Itunes and the Iphone. Basically it was a tiny leap to put it out, just built off existing technology.

RIM does handheld devices, primarily one for the corporate user. They have a shaky history with touch devices and now they are going full speed into tablets? My not compete with Apple in an area that RIM focuses in?

The tablet is not a huge addition to Apples bottom line, it was an easy thing to put out. RIM on the other hand is losing the handheld phone war. More and more companies are opening up and allowing the Iphone to be used on company servers. As Droid gets more powerful I am sure it will be allowed on company email also. Blackberries core customer group which they previously had a monopoly on is slowly being eroded. Instead of revamping their phones and coming out with a device to compete in their CORE product group they want to come out with a tablet???

Short that stock. RIM is the next Palm. We just witnessed evolution pass by RIM. I used to be a BB devotee. Literally had 3 BB's, at one point I have 2 at one time. I will never go back after getting an Iphone and seeing the HTC. My girlfriend had a curve, now she has an HTC. Same story for about half a dozen on my close friends.

Comments (19)

Jul 30, 2010

No.

The iPad moved almost as many units as Apple's entire computer portfolio. All competing companies are moving into the tablet computing space - it's the next step.

Edit: Blackpad is a horrific name though, I can't believe how disgustingly eager companies are to copy Apple.
Hint: It didn't sell because of the name.

Jul 30, 2010

gotta agree with you. short rimm long aapl

Aug 6, 2010
trackstar2k2:

gotta agree with you. short rimm long aapl

Word. Would be an awesome pair.

I win here, I win there...

Jul 30, 2010

The IPAD is projected to move more units. Right now it is Computers, Iphones and then Ipads. I agree that the IPAD is a highly profitable part of Apple, but it is not ground breaking. It runs off OS 4 and is essentially a large ITouch. I have the thing and love it, but Apple did not reinvent the wheel.

Tablets might be the future of computing, but first you have to get the basics right. Apple has a nice tablet because it runs just like the Iphone does. Before the Iphone we had palm and windows mobile and blackberry. Apple really did a good job with an all touch phone. I had previous smart phones before the Iphone and I have to say, the iphone really did everything perfect. You are now seeing a game of catch up going on. I think long run, the Android OS will give Apple a run for it's money. Hardware is easy to change and update. Operating systems are where it is at. Apple's OS is proprietary and only on Apple. Android can be on many phones and many carriers. Once the app store gets up to par it will be a tough choice on which is better. I love the Iphone, but think the new HTC is amazing.

Blackberry is behind the curve. They got fat and lazy on their protected corporate clients. You are now seeing that golden goose slowly changing sides. People are talking about Andriod and OS 4. No one is talking about blackberry. Their app selection is minuscule and they still haven't figured out mobile web. If corporate IT departments were open and willing to look at other phones BlackBerry would be in the same place Palm is at. Trust me, I have used BB's at work and when it comes to doing anything other then mail they suck. Even if you disagree I think it will be hard to argue that BB is behind Android and Apple right now. They need to do something and do it fast.

So what do they do? They are putting money into comping out with a tablet. Now the IPAD is successful in part because it runs off a tested and proven touch screen OS. Apple worked the bugs out with the Iphone before the IPAD came out. I do not think Blackberry has worked the bugs out with their touch screen technology. Furthermore, Blackberry is not a computer company. They sell mobile devices. What are they doing to make their phones more attractive? Apple is selling a lot of Ipads, but they still have computers, phones, mp3 devices, etc. Blackberry has phones and now a tablet. I am sorry, but I would stick with the Ipad, windows based tablet or an Android tablet before I go to BB. Email is great, but you cannot be a one trick pony in this field.

Short RIM. They are dinosaurs. This is fluff and a distraction. Focus on your core, not on the latest and greatest news story.

And yes, I think calling this thing the blackpad would hurt sales. It is ridiculous and will be skewered in the press.

Jul 30, 2010

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB1000142...
Please read this article.

"That complexity makes designing BlackBerry apps much more onerous than designing for iPhones, which have standard features, or phones that run on Google Inc.'s Android system, where much of the programming required for multiple devices is handled automatically by special code."

Jul 30, 2010

"Short that stock. RIM is the next Palm."
Couldn't agree with you more. We dumped it from our portfolio prior to the small run up, but we don't regret it for a second(should short but to risky). They are clutching for straws and playing catchup is barely an option. To be fair they had significant potential in emerging markets due to their lower bandwidth use(cheaper for carriers), but they messed that up (hence the big drop a couple weeks ago). LTE is the way to go, CDMA is dead. The blackpad has absolutely ZERO chance of gaining market share on apple, many die hard corporate BB fans are even starting to integrate iPhones' into their IT systems.

Jul 30, 2010

"Short that stock. RIM is the next Palm."
Couldn't agree with you more. We dumped it from our portfolio prior to the small run up, but we don't regret it for a second(should short but too risky). They are clutching for straws and playing catchup is barely an option. To be fair they had significant potential in emerging markets due to their lower bandwidth use(cheaper for carriers), but they messed that up (hence the big drop a couple weeks ago). LTE is the way to go, CDMA is dead. The blackpad has absolutely ZERO chance of gaining market share on apple, many die hard corporate BB fans are even starting to integrate iPhones' into their IT systems.

Jul 31, 2010

Whoever mentioned that other companies are copying Apple is an inaccurate statement. Apple was the first company to market with a tablet, but by no means did they invent the tablet. The idea has been around for awhile and they rushed a product to market to have the first-mover advantage. It's selling like hotcakes so it worked, though there are clearly flaws (e.g., WiFi chip & no camera). There are going to be a ton of Android-based tablets out in 4Q, so RIM won't be the only company to try this out. I want to see how this new OS works for RIM in its upcoming phone. There's a joint press conference scheduled next week (Aug 3rd I think?) w/AT&T and presumably it's the 8900 - the slider/touchscreen phone. If this product is a success and actually works, then there may be a chance to keep the current customer base happy and loyal. The company clearly has lacked in innovation but this may be there chance to prove that they're worth it to stay around for the fight against Android and AAPL. If this product is a failure or doesn't gain much traction, then I agree, I would probably short RIM as well.

Just my two cents though.

Jul 31, 2010
Jul 31, 2010

No shit there were tablets before Apple's. Apple made the first tablet that was an unrivaled economic success. They rushed the product to market? They've been innovating capacitive touchscreen technologies for years under wraps and every other company out there has rushed to copy their ecosystem, user interface, aesthetic, marketing, overall brand, and even their device names.

The fact you're insinuating they "rushed" the product to market and forgot features is absolutely ludicrous. I don't own an iPad and I don't see any need for the device, but I can't stand people propagating a clear misunderstanding of Apple's corporate strategy. Every one of Apple's moves is carefully engineered - they omitted features for two reasons - (1) to perfect the user experience and device integration, (2) to get users to fork over hundreds of dollars for incremental product upgrades. It's technological obsolescence.

Jul 31, 2010

An Apple engineer had a paper written talking about a transformational device. Before the Iphone we all had phones, mp3 players, GPS, etc. The Iphone is literally the 1st device to "transform" into something else. Hence no multitasking.

Ask yourself. How is your computing experience. I have 20 tabs open, notepad, calculator, 4 excel files, powerpoint, bittorrent and C drive open. It is pretty cluttered and pretty hectic. Now think about the Iphone. It is a phone. Then it is an MP3 players, then a GPS, on and on. The thing is that is is 100% something at one time. The phone literally transforms into the new device. That is pretty revolutionary and makes for a totally different experience then just having a program on your phone.

I am a PC guy. I have had windows mobile, palm, blackberry, everything when it comes to phones. I love the Iphone. It is simple, it is quick and it does whatever I want 100%. I have jailbroken my phone simply because I want more freedom and I am the kind of person who likes to do that stuff, but even if I didn't the Iphone would be a winner.

Why do I think the IPAD is great? Because it doesn't try and replace a computer. Tablets have been around forever and have had limited success because the Windows experience is not well suited for a touch interface. The IPAD solves this. It is great for reading magazines, surfing the web, looking at news and watching movies. It is a wonderful Twitter and Email client, good for quick notes and for enjoying media. It is not the end all be all, but it does fill a niche. People hate apple because of all the fanboy bullshit and I cannot blame them. Some Apple fans are sickening. That being said, Jobs is very smart and his products are both stylish and effective. I think Android will finally give them some competition, but outside of Droid I really do not see anything touching Apple.

Why are they smart? They come out with a great device and keep improving it. They are pretty Machiavellian in the fact that every year a new and updated device will come out, but they are also intelligent in the fact that they keep building on a winning platform. Look at how many companies try and fly too close to the sun only to fall back to earth.

I am long APPL, but conservative about it. I think RIM is playing catch up. In a normal market catch up is risky, but in a consumer electronic market where you know Android and Apple are battling it out it is going to be tough for RIM to gain any ground. This is a perfect example of what happens when you are not constantly innovating. One only needs to look at Palm and Motorola to see examples of companies who had something great and milked it.

Jul 31, 2010

To play devil's advocate --

Specifically talking about business-related smartphones: what makes you think that Apple is going to unseat RIM in the short- to medium-term? Business has been extremely sticky for RIM even as their innovation has dropped off a cliff. The latest Curve or Bold is essentially the same product it was two years ago--minus the ergonomics--and still manages to crush iPhone in RIM's target market. With the recent trend away from electronic "personal freedom" a la Goldman, Citi, etc... the trend is to mitigate firmwide risk rather than to embrace hip, newer products (can you see Lloyd playing with the bartender app? haha)

Sure, a lot of small firms and do-it-yourself-home-office types are getting iPhones to use as business/email/omni-consolidators, but the majority of large F500 firms simply don't have the need for such a device. Most large banks lock their BB's, apply web filters, and disable all the apps anyway. If you disable all the features, then what's the iPhone's edge? Conversely, does a firm really want exposure to additional security issues presented by the features of the iPhone / employees surfing porn at work? Then ask yourself if features such as webconferencing are really needed (they may sound cool, but how much value-add are they providing?)

Don't get me wrong, the iPhone's a beautiful product. Apple isn't bringing anything new to the table, but what it DOES "get," however, is successful product IMPLEMENTATION and presentation. Macs are PC's for dummies. The iPod is an mp3 player for the masses. Microsoft Windows' WMA audio format can store an identical song to an MP3 but requires only 1/4th of the memory. Apple's success represents an industry-wide departure from the so-called Moore's Law.

I'm going to withhold formal judgment until I see some specs on the "blackpad". We'll see what happens. The market's saturated for these Applesque lifestyle-type devices. Its presence in foreign markets is a far cry from its dominance in North America. In short, I believe that Apple's current price reflects its projections for future growth. There are only so many gadgets that people can buy. When Google showed that it couldn't move on after perfecting search, the market had a similar reaction. The question at this point for Apple is: what next?

Just an aside--I think it's heinous that Apple is now larger, by cap, than Microsoft. It's reflective of the changing values of the American consumer, which is pretty sad when you compare the overall achievements of the two.

Jul 31, 2010

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64Q61G20100527
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64G0SI20100517
I do totally agree with you that RIM owns the corporate consumer. I think that RIM either has to go in one direction or the other. RIM either focuses on securing, expanding and keeping the business customer at the expense of the retail customer or the other way around. Right now they are doing neither and I think that Apple and Android are going to slowly eat away at their "secure" territory.

Yes, it is messed up that people discount Microsoft so much. I love Windows 7 and Office. I think the 360 is great and I am looking forward to seeing what is in store for their mobile OS. MS is in a tricky spot though. Apple gets all this press because the consumer is their main customer. MS is business focused and their most well known product (the OS) is made out to be the bastard child on the internet. Pretty unfortunate.

I guess time will tell. Good debate on both sides though.

Jul 31, 2010

In college, a fair few of my friends got a BB for the sake of BBM. It actually caused BB's popularity to increase a fair bit. You can never say - a simple technological improvement (software or hardware) is all it takes to make it big (IPhone's was the App store).

Aug 1, 2010

im not sure if im ready to count rim out.

Aug 4, 2010

Agree with general consensus that RIMM products/strategy/business model not in the same league as AAPL.

However I don't see the demise of RIMM in near future. Smartphone market still growing, RIMM market share will probably stay constant, maybe even slip, margins might tighten, but very strong foothold, strong balance sheet.

If i had to take one position long/short RIMM/AAPL. AAPL is pretty expensive, though wouldn't sell because of growth and supreme business model. RIMM is relatively over sold, due to concerns raised on here. Wouldn't have the conviction to short with strong presence in growing market and balance sheet so I would probably play long RIMM.

Aug 4, 2010

Let me maybe clarify my statement/intentions. When I say short rim I don't want anyone to go out and literally short the stock. I think in the near term they will go up since they are coming out with a new phone and new platform. I do think long term they will trend down.

Aug 6, 2010

the new phone (Torch) seems really promising....

Anthony, why did you get an Ipad... you have a notebook and an iphone... what is the selling point for a costumer like you...

Aug 6, 2010
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