"Self Made"

Simple question. Can you really consider yourself "self made" when your parents dropped $100,000+ on a public or private education for you? I hear people claim that their "self-made" but yet they went to a $200,000+ private school completely on their parents dime. Interested to hear other peoples thoughts on this.

Hedge Fund Interview Course

  • 814 questions across 165 hedge funds. Crowdsourced from over 500,000 members.
  • 11 Detailed Sample Pitches and 10+ hours of video.
  • Trusted by over 1,000 aspiring hedge fund professionals just like you.

Comments (71)

Dec 3, 2018

id say if parents paid for one's college let alone six figures on your education then yeah i think calling yourself completely "self made" is tough to d0. sure you got the grades but completely self made is getting the grades and a full ride.. or paying your way thru/having your own student loans and paying them off.
the right way to say it would be something like "i was very fortunate that my parents were able to provide the finances needed for me to go to a top school and make something of myself"

    • 1
    • 1
Dec 3, 2018

Who really cares? Plenty of people out there start on third and think they hit a triple, especially in my industry where every other person is only there because they're someone's son, but it doesn't impact you at all if they tell themselves they're "self made" to get through the day.

    • 3
    • 2
Most Helpful
Dec 3, 2018
CRE:

Who really cares? Plenty of people out there start on third and think they hit a triple, especially in my industry where every other person is only there because they're someone's son, but it doesn't impact you at all if they tell themselves they're "self made" to get through the day.

Where I care is not regarding me. It's regarding their attitudes towards those who are less fortunate. Most yahoos that claim they're self-made when they're obviously not disdain the poor (they're just lazy and dumb etc.) and trivialize their struggle, while they claim they achieved success by themselves. It's disgusting.

    • 10
    • 1
Dec 3, 2018
BobTheBaker:

Where I care is not regarding me. It's regarding their attitudes towards those who are less fortunate. Most yahoos that claim they're self-made when they're obviously not disdain the poor (they're just lazy and dumb etc.) and trivialize their struggle, while they claim they achieved success by themselves. It's disgusting.

Douchebags will be douchebags. It's not not worth getting worked up about, IMO.

    • 6
    • 1
Dec 4, 2018

Exactly

Learn More

Side-by-side comparison of top modeling training courses + exclusive discount through WSO here.

Dec 3, 2018

CNBC called Warren Buffett self-made. So, most people saying they are "self-made" are really not. Trump thinks he's self-made. I wouldn't be surprised if Zuckerberg and Musk think they're self-made. They helped themselves to some free lemonade and said they made it their selves. That's how it works most times.

    • 3
    • 2
Dec 3, 2018

So who do you consider self made? I'm not a Buffett fanboy, but by the time he was 19 he had saved in today's dollars about $100k on his own money. Obviously he had help in his life (almost everyone does), but how is that not self made?

Dec 3, 2018
Red banana Wagon:

So who do you consider self made?

God.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 3
Funniest
Dec 3, 2018

Self Made Man Sculpture

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 9
Dec 3, 2018
Red banana Wagon:

So who do you consider self made? I'm not a Buffett fanboy, but by the time he was 19 he had saved in today's dollars about $100k on his own money. Obviously he had help in his life (almost everyone does), but how is that not self made?

Can't think of anyone off the top of my head. Most biographies, especially of super successful rich guys I can recall give some account to parental influence. The diplomat George Kennan went to some private military academy before Princeton.

Maybe Ursula Burns would be an example, who earned her way by working up. But then someone paid a $9K in tuition at an all girls catholic school in NY, before eventually going to Columbia to do it. Unless it was a strictly merit based scholarship she earned, then not even her.

It's hard to find someone who didn't have a lot of familial support. I think most of the people who are truly "self-made" are not front page rich people. They make a solid salary and then support their kids to eventually become that front pager.

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

Sidney Weinberg: from newsie to head of GS

  • Was a newsie, got in knife fights over control of street corners
  • Got a job as a janitor's assistant - promoted to the mailroom
  • Joined the navy in WWI
  • Comes home, makes securities trader
  • Makes partner at GS in 1927
  • Saved GS from bankruptcy in 1930 and remained head of GS until he died in 1969
    • 4
Dec 5, 2018
overpaid_overworked:

Sidney Weinberg: from newsie to head of GS

  • Was a newsie, got in knife fights over control of street corners
  • Got a job as a janitor's assistant - promoted to the mailroom
  • Joined the navy in WWI
  • Comes home, makes securities trader
  • Makes partner at GS in 1927
  • Saved GS from bankruptcy in 1930 and remained head of GS until he died in 1969

Great story - inspirational.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 4, 2018

Buffet was the son of a congressman. Therefore has connections. Has an easier start to life than say Elon. Buffet is also a white male born in America. Can't get much better than that.

    • 1
    • 3
Dec 4, 2018
Nickh:

Buffet was the son of a congressman. Therefore has connections. Has an easier start to life than say Elon. Buffet is also a white male born in America. Can't get much better than that.

To counter, I see a lot of white congressman, who I'm assuming have kids. Probability wise about half those kids are male, assuming all born in the US. I don't know how many of those are billionaires, but I'm assuming a low percentage. It's also hard to correlate Elon to Buffet, they're in different sectors/businesses.

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

At my last interview for my current role, my now boss asked me:

If you imagine a triangle, where each point represents: hard work, luck and raw intelligence

How would your triangle look (for example - more skewed towards hard work and luck, or more weighted towards intelligence) with respect to how you've got to where you are in life now.

I answered, and when I flipped it back to him he answered: well first and foremost, I am a white male born in the USA to a middle class family, which has afforded me far better opportunities then 99% of the world population (guy also has bucket loads of raw intelligence, but admitted to not working that hard).

Quite a telling answer. That was genuinely the one factor he put on his success over anything else.

Dec 5, 2018

Elon Musk's dad was a wealthy miner in South Africa....

Dec 5, 2018

Elon had a bad relationship with his father and I believe he still does.

Dec 11, 2018

Elon had/has a bad relationship with his father later in life because his father's current slampiece is his stepsister (which would screw with any of his kids' heads)

From my knowledge, there was no ill will between Elon and his father during his earlier years other than the typical issues of a kid whose parents are divorced

I know Elon has said that his father didn't support him during his first startup but those comments were also right around Elon Musk is pragmatic, I'd be willing to bet that he would use use his dad's capital if needed

    • 1
Dec 8, 2018

Musk was born into a wealthy family and had a famous mother, whose family was known for being extremely adventurous. Buffett, Kennedy, Dell were the sons of wealthy stockbrokers. Zuckerberg's parents were doctors. Gates' parents were lawyers. The list goes on.

"Success", by whatever arbitrary metric you pick, takes many generations of hard work. This is what the principles of investing teach us, too, right?

Dec 11, 2018

This is called cherry picking.

Dec 17, 2018

I didn't bring up Musk and Buffett - I was just continuing the thread. I think my message was pretty generic.

Dec 4, 2018

I think a decent number of people don't consider Buffet to be entirely self made because he was the son of a Congressman (not my opinion). Of course, there are a lot of children of political leaders who haven't amounted to much.

Dec 4, 2018

Sorry for the tangent to the post, but as someone who idealizes Buffet I have to interject. While I have never heard this argument, that is ridiculous and wonder why it is even worth mentioning. His father refused a raise in salary during his tenure because he was elected at the lower salary. As did his son, he made habit of arguably irrational frivolousness and ambivalence towards money. The only thing Howard Buffet privileged his son with was an impregnable armor of character. It's not my opinion that the world is run by shape-shifting lizards, but I don't see the value mentioning that opinion in a political debate, nor do I see the value in this comment.

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

That why I said it was not my opinion.

Dec 5, 2018

Edison... completely self-made but that's partly why it took him a hell of a lot longer to make it to where he was and also probably why he was such a dick/ruthless competitor

Same for Rockefeller

Learn More

Side-by-side comparison of top modeling training courses + exclusive discount through WSO here.

Dec 3, 2018

No, that's not self made.

    • 1
Dec 3, 2018

"nanos gigantum humeris insidentes"

"standing on the shoulders of giants"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shou...
"too we are dwarfs astride the shoulders of giants. We master their wisdom and move beyond it. Due to their wisdom we grow wise and are able to say all that we say, but not because we are greater than they."
- Isaiah di Trani

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants."
- Isaac Newton, 1675

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

    • 2
Dec 10, 2018

"If I have not seen farther than others it is because giants have been standing on my shoulders"

Dec 4, 2018

This question of whether we are "self made" or not is not even worth discussing. No one is ever self-made because most of our lives are pre-determined based on where you are born and who you parents are.

The global internet population is 4.2BB out of 7.6BB. So the fact that we are using internet to discuss about this is because we are lucky and ends up being the other 55.1% who have access to internet.

And everyone who discuss about this is trying to argue for the equality of "outcome". But to do that we have to equalize the opportunities given. So that means we have to normalize all of our individual differences.

So what does that mean is in order for me to compete with someone whose both legs are amputated in a sporting contest - to show that my mental will is as strong as that person, shall I amputate my legs as well - so that we start from the same base?

To truly argue self-made, we are assuming that everyone start from the same base, which we don't. Is like in a science fiction movie, where we are all born and sent to a public space without our parents and letting the authorities take care of us in the same conditions.

That is probably the only scenario where that would work. Even then our genetic makeup are not the same so technically we don't start from the same base either.

Net net the argument of whether someone is self made is a rabbit hole argument that goes no where. Just look at how we count scores against each other if we try to normalize everyone:

    • 4
Dec 4, 2018
Naoki Hanzawa:

Is like in a science fiction movie, where we are all born and sent to a public space without our parents and letting the authorities take care of us in the same conditions.

Nah, we would still be divided into alphas, betas, gammas & epsilons

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.

Dec 10, 2018

Also, a short story by Kurt Vonnegut called Harrison Bergeron.

Dec 11, 2018

I've just read the plot and it made me sad about my life, what have you done...

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.

Dec 11, 2018

why does it make you sad, it should make you angry, no?

Dec 11, 2018

well i imagined myself as George Bergeron when i should have been Harrison

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.

Dec 4, 2018

It's stupid to even talk about being "self made" because we were all born with certain advantages that we should be thankful for. Nobody ever really gets to where they are on their own. I've worked very hard but I've also been blessed with a brain that enjoys doing analytical work, a high degree of conscientiousness, and having been born to two parents with graduate degrees.

    • 1
Dec 4, 2018
Hayek:

It's stupid to even talk about being "self made" because we were all born with certain advantages that we should be thankful for. Nobody ever really gets to where they are on their own. I've worked very hard but I've also been blessed with a brain that enjoys doing analytical work, a high degree of conscientiousness, and having been born to two parents with graduate degrees.

Agreed.

Everyone is born with some ability, it just might not be something we can see. For example, in college, you can probably tell who is going to the NBA because you and see size/speed. However, you can't look at someone and tell how analytical/disciplined/patient they are and how they will affect their success.

If you use the term "self-made", "lucky" or "starting on third base", you have to define what is the bottom. It's kinda like Buffett said in his book after he returned from China, his main level of success is that he is born in a country that values his skills as a means to make money.

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

Further, we live in a place and time where the traits that make one suitable for consulting and finance (to use one example) would not be suitable at other times. Someone who would otherwise be well suited for doing analytical work for long periods of time would not see the same returns to that type of cognition in medieval europe.

I'm generally pretty libertarian and believe we need to incentivize individuals to succeed, but so much of any individual's success is determined by who his parents are and what color his passport is.

    • 3
Dec 5, 2018
Hayek:

Further, we live in a place and time where the traits that make one suitable for consulting and finance (to use one example) would not be suitable at other times. Someone who would otherwise be well suited for doing analytical work for long periods of time would not see the same returns to that type of cognition in medieval europe.

Definitely.

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 4, 2018

Why are you interested in this? How does it help you? What do you gain by diminishing the work of others?

    • 1
Dec 4, 2018

Exactly.

Who the fuck cares.

I would advise all the younger kids to focus more on themselves and less on others.

Dec 4, 2018

Didn't Lloyd Blankfein grow up in the projects? That's gotta be self made

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

You have to look at this from a scale perspective. Did your parents pay for your 100K+ college education and then you take that and make 100M. You are self made, if you take that same 100K+ education and move on to a law job and make 500K per year, not really.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

    • 1
Dec 4, 2018

Yeah 500k is pocket change, it puts you in the bottom 1% of the population. If you make less than $1M per year with a 100k education, you're a waste of space and organic material, right?

Dec 4, 2018

The point is the delta between the starting point and the end point. It isn't hard to get to 500K per year by the end of your career if you go to a high quality UG and law school. The point is breaking out of your socioeconomic status of your youth by a significant amount. This goes back to the point of likelihood of advancement drops significantly the higher up the ladder you start.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

    • 1
Dec 4, 2018
heister:

You have to look at this from a scale perspective. Did your parents pay for your 100K+ college education and then you take that and make 100M. You are self made, if you take that same 100K+ education and move on to a law job and make 500K per year, not really.

I get what you're saying, Its more where you started to where you ended up. $500k could be self made, did yours parents also get you that job, or did you get it yourself?

I know people who basically waltzed into a VP job at thei family firm, which I would say is the opposite of self-man.

    • 1
Dec 4, 2018

It doesn't mean that you didn't make your own way, it just means that you started on the same rung or a very near rung. In my view to be selfmade you have to take something and create exponential growth to be selfmade.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Dec 4, 2018

lol what?

    • 2
Dec 5, 2018

I see basic math still eludes you.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

    • 2
Dec 5, 2018

No you're just potentially the biggest pathological liar on this forum. Since you want to go with the personal jabs I'll join, how the fuck are you a real estate millionaire (and claim the richest on this forum) when 6 years ago you were asking about an entry level financial advisory position? Now you're trying to spew some garbage advice you read in Dave Ramsey's book. Get out of here lmao. Hate all these trust fund fags who've never earned anything in their life

    • 5
Dec 5, 2018
Tony Montana:

No you're just potentially the biggest pathological liar on this forum. Since you want to go with the personal jabs I'll join, how the fuck are you a real estate millionaire (and claim the richest on this forum) when 6 years ago you were asking about an entry level financial advisory position? Now you're trying to spew some garbage advice you read in Dave Ramsey's book. Get out of here lmao. Hate all these trust fund fags who've never earned anything in their life

heister has been bullshitting here for over a decade. I think by now he seems to actually believe his lies.

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

I think as long as you did something meaningful with your life beyond living off your parents' money, you're 'self-made.' However, the term 'self-made' is not really accurate, because strictly speaking, no one is self-made. We all have mentors, friends, etc. who help us get to where were are. Some people just have a greater degree of this (with money & connections).

Regardless, this post just sounds like something that is attempting to degrade the success of anyone who was born upper middle class or above, which honestly is pretty sad. I'd focus on enhancing your own success instead of rationalizing others' success by talking about advantages they received from factors outside of your control or theirs. Life's not fair, deal with it.

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

Plenty of middle class parents diligently save up this kind of money to pay for their child's education over their entire adult lives. I don't think that lacking college indebtedness is a pre-requisite for being a respectable person. This, however, seems like a cavalier topic that you shouldn't be putting much effort towards trying to understand.

What is important is your impact on other people, irrespective of where you came from. I know plenty of aporophobic people hailing from poor backgrounds themselves, which is equally reproachable as the person born in Westport CT given everything they wanted growing up. Ignorance is ignorance. If someone had help growing up, but displays empathy towards and actively endeavors to help the lives of the less fortunate, that is enough to earn respect in my book. On the other hand, the "self made" rags-to-riches posting pictures of their expensive cars and watches on social media while making no effort to improve lives around them will never have my respect.

Long story short: worry more about character and be ambivalent to categories the of "self made" and "privileged". That, in itself, is a sign of good character.

Dec 4, 2018

I can't say that I care too much how they got through school. Kudos for having that opportunity. That being said, getting through school has little to do with being "self-made." I would argue that we typically think of "self-made" from a career standpoint. Sure, having no school debt is beneficial when it comes to building a business and a career, but it certainly doesn't give you the work ethic and business acumen to build that business and that income. In the scheme of things, having $40,000-$50,000 in school debt is all that much of a hindrance in become "self-made."

    • 1
Dec 4, 2018

"We are all self-made, but only the successful will admit it."
-Earl Nightingale

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

To me, self-made is my mother.

Grow up in poverty, move out of your fathers house at 16 and raise your younger sister because your father beats you. Have two kids by the time you are 21 and instead of using kids as an excuse to why you can't accomplish your goals, you continue on with school and eventually become a medical doctor.

    • 2
Dec 4, 2018

It's true most people aren't fully self-made, but it exists on a spectrum. Some people are more self-made than others, and, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, but it does represent strong income mobility in a single life. It's impressive when you see it.

Dec 4, 2018

It's all relative to the rate of return you give on what you're parents contribute to you. If your parents make $250,000 a year and send you to Emory, and ten years later you're making $1,000,000 a year then I'd still consider you self-made. If your dad was Fred Trump and you only make $1,000,000 a year over the course of your business career then you're a failure.

Dec 5, 2018

No one is self-made.

There are highly successful people who, to quote someone else on this thread, "were born on third and think they hit a triple". Those folks are douchebags and you should ignore them, because they're probably not very fulfilled or happy deep down.

Then there are people who are born on third (or second, or whatever you want your starting place for the metaphor to be) and yeah, get a great private education and kill it, but acknowledge that. If you have discipline and focus and you are self-reliant and not dependent on daddy's money for your lifestyle, then you have no reason to be ashamed. There is nothing inherently wrong with being born with privilege, the only issue is when you start acting like those who weren't are somehow lesser because they couldn't achieve on their "own" what you were born with.

Also, there are lots of ways you can be privileged. One could argue that a person born into a wealthy household but who is abused emotionally as a child might be starting from a worse spot than someone who had to bust their ass to make it financially but had an amazing family support network.

Dec 5, 2018

I actually always thought of life being a pretty level playing field once you graduate from college, assuming you didn't have to take debt out to attend. I thought most rich people don't give their kids trust funds or what not until they're a bit older, like in their 30s or even until they pass away? Your network definitely plays a huge role in your success, but I always thought it was a pretty level playing field with some exceptions after you get your first job. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Dec 6, 2018

I used to think that way too but I think graduating from college is when many of these differences become most visible.

If you graduate college with little to no debt, then that's a huge advantage over many people.

If your parents can pay large portions of your living expenses post college, that's another big benefit (I used to be mystified by all these 23 year old girls living in studio apartments in Dupont Circle in DC and yet they worked for foundations making barely any money).

If your parents can help out with grad school expenses, that counts for a lot too.

If your parents can help with some combination of emergency expenses (e.g., you lose your job), helping you with a down payment for a house, wedding expenses--those are massive.

Even at a more fundamental level--lots of people feel obligated to send money to their parents or siblings. If your family is in a good financial position, you have a lot to be thankful for.

I know many people who had all of the above but who wouldn't consider themselves to be particularly rich or privileged, even they've had absolutely absolutely massive advantages. The above could mean the difference between having kids when you're 30 vs. when you're 35, or even having kids at all. It could mean the difference between having a comfortable upper middle class life versus barely scraping by at the bottom of the upper middle class (lots of people out there making six figures and raising kids who have almost no liquid savings).

    • 9
Dec 6, 2018
Hayek:

I used to think that way too but I think graduating from college is when many of these differences become most visible.

If you graduate college with little to no debt, then that's a huge advantage over many people.

If your parents can pay large portions of your living expenses post college, that's another big benefit (I used to be mystified by all these 23 year old girls living in studio apartments in Dupont Circle in DC and yet they worked for foundations making barely any money).

If your parents can help out with grad school expenses, that counts for a lot too.

If your parents can help with some combination of emergency expenses (e.g., you lose your job), helping you with a down payment for a house, wedding expenses--those are massive.

Even at a more fundamental level--lots of people feel obligated to send money to their parents or siblings. If your family is in a good financial position, you have a lot to be thankful for.

I know many people who had all of the above but who wouldn't consider themselves to be particularly rich or privileged, even they've had absolutely absolutely massive advantages. The above could mean the difference between having kids when you're 30 vs. when you're 35, or even having kids at all. It could mean the difference between having a comfortable upper middle class life versus barely scraping by at the bottom of the upper middle class (lots of people out there making six figures and raising kids who have almost no liquid savings).

This perfectly describes nearly all of the people who had gone to UVA for undergrad in my grad program there. Most were pretty smart, cool people but they were 100% completely oblivious to any lifestyle below upper upper middle class. In fact many were doing the program simply because they wanted another year in Charlottesville (and I don't blame them at all) and the $50k tuition meant nothing to them because their parents were paying for it anyways.

    • 2
Dec 8, 2018

Those people don't have life any easier or harder than anyone else.

No one's burden or worth are anyone else's to judge.

    • 1
Dec 8, 2018

It took you until you graduated college to realize this? You needed a long post, and even got 8 bananas for it.

Welcome to life, guys.

Dec 6, 2018
EarlFromUtah:

I actually always thought of life being a pretty level playing field once you graduate from college, assuming you didn't have to take debt out to attend. I thought most rich people don't give their kids trust funds or what not until they're a bit older, like in their 30s or even until they pass away? Your network definitely plays a huge role in your success, but I always thought it was a pretty level playing field with some exceptions after you get your first job. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I think it's the opposite. Everything step before your graduation from college is preparation for that moment. A good middle school/high school education is just to juice your chances for getting into a top tier university. Going to a top tier university is just to have a leg up on the job hunt. How well you do in high school or before is obviously influenced by your home environment, but theoretically you're all taking the same tests and being graded on the same questions; after you're out of a school environment, the way in which you get evaluated becomes far more subjective.

    • 1
Dec 6, 2018

I'd have to echo this sentiment above as well. Once you graduate from college and see the people with no student debt, no obligation to help the little sibling pay rent, no obligation to pay cell phone/car bill, no obligation to have to enroll in company health (most kids stay on parents plans) you really start to realize how these privileges compound in a big way in your 20s.

    • 1
Dec 6, 2018

When I was younger, my view of young urban professional life was shaped by movies and TV, where people turn down high paying jobs to pursue artistic endeavors and live in studio apartments waiting tables and going to auditions at night, while the "rich guy" who works in finance makes all his own money. It's extraordinarily inaccurate.

Dec 8, 2018

You should quicker believe that Coca-Cola is delivered by Santa Claus than in such a thing as "Self-Made". You realize the phrase "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" is an oxymoron, right?

Everyone needs friends, teachers, mentors, people that take a chance on/believe in them. It's Business 101. Every seller needs a buyer. Every leader needs a team, and customers. He works for them just as much as they work for him.

There will always be those that start with more or less than others, or get lucky or unlucky. No one's path or claim to happiness is any less difficult or worthy.

Everybody poops.

Dec 8, 2018
    • 1
Dec 10, 2018

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee

Dec 10, 2018
Dec 11, 2018