Stigma of Being Fired From HF Role
Does the stigma of being fired from an HF role stay with you through your career? What are ways to mitigate the stigma going forward? Does it affect how you should be thinking about your next seat?
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You simply need to land another seat elsewhere. Usually people don't really care about anything more than your current/last job.
no stigma, it is too common, people understand
This. Getting fired in hedge funds is possibly more common than other types of roles.
I guess the key is to open one instead, right Jim?
I think the most important thing is to not let it affect you mentally. Just make sure you don't give off the vibe like its a big deal, people can sense that when interviewing. Just have the mentality that its something in the past that happened and not a reflection of who you are as a person, because its not.
It shouldn't matter but sometimes people do care, especially the SM funds. Many of the quant shops prefer fresh grads over people who got fired from other funds, even though it's so common. It's much easier to get a job while you have an existing job.
I would disagree with a lot of this.
It depends on how you define stigma. Does it mean people will write a business insider article about how you are a huge loser? No. Does it mean you’ll never get laid again? No.
but will it come up in the interview? Yes. Will it hurt you relative to others? Yes. Are there differences between cases? Yes. Will you still be able to get a job if this happens? Yes.
why will it come up? Well chances are the person interviewing you doesn’t beat the market or have any source of edge. The best way to improve his compensation then is to pay you less. It is much easier to split the pie more favorably than to grow the pie if markets are perfectly efficient. As a result, a good strategy is to remind you that you’re not as good as your boss. So it’s important for him to make you feel a little bad in the interview. As a result, if you were fired it will definitely be something your future boss will make you want to feel a little bit bad about by at least pressing you on the question a bit. Those uncomfortable questions are among valuable ones he can ask!
Idk why you got shat on for this. Ken Griffin himself says he wants the people you have to go out and steal from other firms. Not the "losers" who got fired and are asking you for a job. It's a dickish way to talk/think about people but not at all an uncommon viewpoint.
I didn't monkey shit and i think it's a valid view, but people i've worked with that got fired often end up working for one of Ken's teams...
Good point, thanks!
I've been at my single manger seat for 4 years and 2/3 of the analysts that there there when i started have been fired or nudged to leave.
The game is mostly luck. people get that.
What do you think it is about you that has allowed you to succeed? Or at the very least, remained in your seat compared to your colleagues?
mostly luck. personal style fit with boss. made $.
Zero stigma.
The HF industry has very high turnover, everyone understands this.
Where it becomes a problem is if you spend very little time in each seat, moving around a lot. Say, you work at 3 different funds over 3 or 4 years. At that point you start to draw red flags on your stability as an analyst and in picking good funds to join. Other than cases like that, it's not a big deal.
Even this is pretty common from what I've seen. As an analyst, you really have no way to know if a PM or firm is good or not, and most are not these days. PMs will sometimes lie about their performance and future prospects in interviews.
Some of the bigger, corporate SM funds do "last in, first out" firings regardless of your individual performance, so your chance of being fired again increases with every new firm you join, versus staying at the same firm and hoping they hire more analysts after you.
Totally agree.
The hardest part of joining a SM is as an analyst you have limited visibility into 1) past performance, 2) culture, 3) compensation.
I usually advise friends who are far along in their SM interview process to request 1) quarterly letters and 2) a current investor day. Even if you need to sign a NDA, it's important to have this before you make the ultimate decision to join the HF. This will give you insight into the investment style, culture, potentially turnover and performance.
As someone who hires - there is definitely a stigma and bias. That is the #1 thing with information asymmetry and playing poker with hires on why they want to leave.
Whether there's stigma or not depends. If you got fired because of your own incompetence and there are no good references out there that no one will put in for you, yes you're in a tough spot, though it's not impossible.
But there are dozens of reasons you might've been fired from a HF that wouldn't be held against you: poor fund performance and shrinking AUM. MM set-up where your PM got fired and you were left orphaned. Fund shutting down a business line/asset class.. etc
You give so little detail it's hard to tell in your case, but deep inside you probably know whether you are marketable or damaged goods.
at MMs, if your PM is fired, how often are you orphaned vs. being able to join a different pod? does this vary from MM to MM or is it much more case-by-case even within the same MM
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