Summer MBA Associate, Didn't Get FT Offer, How To Handle for FT Recruiting?
I'm an MBA2, finished a Summer Associate gig at a bb last summer. There were two interns in my group including myself, he got an offer and I didn't. In the meeting they told me that they didn't give me an offer because they weren't sure I would have accepted it if they did. Which is ridiculous to me because I worked really hard over the summer, staffed up so much that my staffer actually took me off projects, and everyone said my work product was very high quality. Everyone I worked with on a daily basis was very surprised.
A couple weeks ago I grabbed coffee with someone in my group that said it had to do with the fact that they were seeing less people leaving the group so less need for new hires, had someone renege on an offer the year before I interned, and were worried that would happen again if they gave me one. Which makes absolutely no sense because they could've just asked me or given me an exploding offer. I would've accepted on the spot.
I don't know what it was, my guess was I just wasn't expressing enthusiasm over the summer as I'm not normally someone that does that. Something I need to work on, I know.
So now it's really derailing everything. I've been cut without interviews at a few banks that won't even look at me because I didn't get an offer. I have a really great opportunity at another BB come up but I'm worried they'll do the same once they find out I didn't get an offer (not hiding it from them, but they haven't asked yet).
How should I respond to this question? I have references including my staffer that I'd love for them to call who will speak to my fit and work quality, but even though I offer them up it seems like nobody's interested enough to inquire.
You're recruiting for FT now?
Bit late. Every large shop is already full. At this point it's dumb luck to see if you can find a small shop hiring.
I have a possible opp at a bb for FT right now, but want to make sure that I handle this in the best possible way so that they're not scared off by it
Were you not able to get even interviews from other BBs cause you didn't get the return offer? If this BB gave you an interview, then they are probably fine with it.
Most other banks were done hiring by the time that my internship was over and I found out I wasn't getting an offer, and certainly all the BB's. My group literally waited til the last day to tell me, and there was no indication I wouldn't be getting an offer, so I couldn't position myself ahead of time to interview at other firms. I was completely blindsided.
I got an interview at an elite boutique but no offer in September. Another straight up told me they wouldn't even consider me because I didn't get an offer (they didn't care why, company policy), and an Associate at another bank told me that if I don't get an interview offer for FT at his firm it was because I didn't get an offer at the end of my internship. I didn't get an interview.
The current opportunity was sourced through personal networking. I have a call with a senior person at a BB this week; the connection was made through another senior person in a different division of the firm. The guy doesn't know I don't have an offer because I haven't talked to him yet (though the other senior person who referred me to him does, which I'm hoping will work in my favor). If the discussion with this senior guy goes well there's a 95% chance I will get an interview and the lack of an offer at my internship won't matter because I'll be vetted by the senior guy.
It's like I'm blacklisted. My staffer has openly offered to talk to anyone and sing my praises, because he knew the quality of work I did over the summer and that I was a great employee, and I have plenty of other references in the group, but nobody cares enough to investigate further or verify what I'm saying. They just find out that I didn't get an offer and another intern did, and then I just get cut. It's extremely frustrating.
At this point, there isn't much you can do. If asked, just say you didn't get the return offer because of headcount and market conditions and offer to provide references. Don't elaborate, especially that someone got the offer over you.
I'm not in a position to give advice, but I'm interested in your situation because I'm starting business school in the fall and am planning to recruit for banking. Out of curiosity, how common is it to not get a FT offer after a summer internship? And what is the standard course of action if that happens? From your situation, it does sound like you got very unlucky. Do you mind posting what b-school you're at, and if you engaged the career center for help or at lease advice on how to proceed?
BAML was almost a 50% offer rate last year across all their MBA interns. GS is always around 75-80%. JPM, Moelis, and a few others are similar. Evercore used to be 100% offer rate but then was closer to 75% last year.
The reality is, every year people don't get return offers. Most banks will tell you "there is a spot for everyone to lose" but its often not true. Probably somewhere in the realm of 20% of interns across the entire street dont get return offers. And it's not really about where you go to school or your stats (though having a deep alumni connection at a bank or group can help, because they'll go to bat for you). It's mostly about 1) headcount pressure, 2) your work product, 3) and if you've got people on your side through networking and acting excited about the job while treating your analysts well.
That said, everyone that I know that was successful during FT recruiting was successful in august-october. I'm shocked to hear someone is still interviewing, though headcount does change all the time.
Haha additionally, I sourced this opportunity through a job posting on the bank's website. Asked a senior guy at the firm if he knew anyone in the group, and he knew someone very senior. So just really, really lucky to find it. I spoke with a guy in the group that handles recruiting and he said I'm the first person he's ever seen come through like this for recruiting in the year that he's been involved with recruiting. This is why I don't want to mess it up!
AllDay_028 is 100% right, but I was unlucky because last year was brutal for MBA internship conversions. The banks overhired on interns last summer, and then the market shifted and there was a lot of uncertainty by the end of the summer so the banks weren't optimistic anymore. So the conversion rate was pretty brutal across the street, but the worst was BAML I think. GS always has some people that don't make the cut, but I feel like they let people know in advance because it's part of how they handle their internship program. Most people I know that didn't get offers were told or had some kind of advance warning so they could position themselves for recruiting at other banks.
My bank didn't tell me at all. My staffer deferred my mid-summer review three weeks because he was too busy, so I asked Associates that I worked with on a daily basis how I was doing. They said I was doing great and only came up with relatively minor things to improve on, which I worked on. I even asked the week before offer week what an Associate thought and he said I was doing well. Part of my internship was to do a project at the end of the summer to pitch to the group, and every single person I talked to said I blew it out of the water.
The only thing I can think of is that the last two weeks I was working only on my project. All of my staffings coincidentally ended at the same time, and when I asked for more the Associate who was my defacto staffer (my real staffer was too busy to staff us) said to not worry and just focus on my project. This was also a group that hammered into our heads that face time wasn't important, and, to quote the group head "if you don't have any work to do, get the fuck out of the office".
My final project didn't require being in the office until 2am to finish, so the past two weeks I just felt like I had proven myself enough with regards to how hard and much I work, and so I took it easier, leaving earlier and so on. I still asked for staffings and walked around asking people if they needed help, but everyone said to just chill out and that I earned it and focus on my project so I can get the offer. So I'm wondering if some MD that I didn't know that well saw me leaving earlier those past two weeks and thought I was being lazy. That's literally the only thing I can think of. The MD in question wasn't in my project pitch, either.
The career center doesn't really do much. They organize presentations and initial events with banks, but then you're going to events organized by the banks. Once you don't get an offer they console you and whatnot, but they have no ability to help because banks don't tell the career center they're filling spots unless they have a LOT to fill and have to come back to campus. So I was effectively on my own at that point and just trying to get my classmates to keep on top of their banks' hiring needs in case something popped up.
Unfortunately due to the economic climate I described earlier, almost nothing did. Most banks were filling their openings while I was in the last week of my internship. After I didn't get an offer, there were only three banks that I found openings at. I interviewed at one, wasn't invited to final round, one said they wouldn't even look at me because of the no-offer, and the third I knew an Associate at that told me if I didn't get invited to interview it was because I didn't get an offer, and I didn't get an invite.
Not a ton of people at my school didn't get offers. Some of them were able to convert BB internships into elite boutique because they saw the writing on the wall and started early. Others are going to smaller mid market banks. Others are going outside of banking.
Most likely, and its unfortunate, but what I think happened is that the group thought they had two offers and at the last minute they lost some headcount and could only extend one.
The banking environment is very different - to the positive - than last year at this time, so my guess is that there will be a decent amount of unanticipated headcount, so you just need to stay on top of it and have as many live discussions as possible. Its not easy to hire laterally at the A0 level (most analysts who were promoted won't take the risk of moving to another bank) so you should start to get some interest.
And I would be nothing but upfront about what happened. It will probably ding you in a few places, but more often that not, it won't and it allows you to start with a clean slate.
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