the life of a trader

This is targeted I guess mainly at BB traders, but I'd definitely be interested in what any of you traders in general out here have to say about this.

Do you enjoy showing up to work everyday?
How stressful is trading?
How much more stressful is it than other finance jobs (banking, consulting, etc) and how much more stressful is it than a normal job?

 

My brother's friend is a trader who's wildly successful. He's told me that in his 8-year career, his group of 4-5 traders has gone through around 40 different traders. That's around 8 different people per year.

In other words, turnover is extremely high because most people fucking suck at trading and get the boot. He's managed to stay all 8 years and is in a very senior position, despite being less than 30.

$$$$$$$$$ he makes. He's a rainmaker at his firm.

In terms of hours, they're definitely not as bad as IB, but I'd say he works around 60 hours a week minimum. He also has to interact with clients a lot, especially now that he holds a senior position.

And stress? Haha, HIGHLY stressful. Not necessarily from the hours and workload, but from the pressure that you have to make your firm money. If you don't, you basically get a warning that "you're sucking dick and if you don't turn this around and make us money, you're getting replaced by the next over-eager, aspiring trader waiting in line."

 
junior2012:

wtf do failed traders do?

I have always wondered this...

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 
derivstrading:

Stress is a direct function on how much you depend on your next paycheck.

Stress is my fuel, without stress i will definitely fail

http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/ http://www.tradersmagazine.com/
 

Yeah I highly doubt that's at a BB. there's no way they hire 8 new people every year for a single desk. That's so amazingly inefficient. Unless the group of traders is like 60 people there's no way you have 8 new analysts on a desk every year. It would just be too much dead weight. Probably at a prop shop or something like that if it's even true

 
leveRAGE.:
Yeah I highly doubt that's at a BB. there's no way they hire 8 new people every year for a single desk. That's so amazingly inefficient. Unless the group of traders is like 60 people there's no way you have 8 new analysts on a desk every year. It would just be too much dead weight. Probably at a prop shop or something like that if it's even true

Agreed, never heard that

Okay BBs have large divisions, but they hire high-qualified people, so they have no need to lay off them

(Credit Trading DB: 700 people, about 40+ desks)

http://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/ http://www.tradersmagazine.com/
 

in 4 years we have hired about 7 people and let go of 1 so i am selling that post.... we have had people move on to sales, credit, risk and more often.... more seniors roles at other places...

Do you enjoy showing up to work everyday? Yes How stressful is trading? Depends but overall its pretty stressful How much more stressful is it than other finance jobs (banking, consulting, etc) and how much more stressful is it than a normal job? I dont work other finance jobs dumba$$, I am a trader

 

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http://www.oiltradingacademy.com
 

He used to work at a BB, but now he works at.. think DB, CS, BarCap, Citi. I'm purely going by what he told me one night when we went out. I was curious about his line of work and asked about his story and whatnot.

The way I interpreted it is that it's all about the PnL at the end of the day, and if you're consistently running in the red, then senior management starts to 'talk' about you and you appear on their radar. If you don't quickly turn that around and make the firm some money, then you get the boot.

I have no idea how it's quantified (i.e. how MUCH do you have to be losing, or how LONG do you have to be in the red).

As to the turnover.. I mean I might be recalling the numbers incorrectly, but I do know for sure that he said he's seen 40 different traders in his groups during his career of 8 years.

 
Best Response
Rana Clamitans:
He used to work at a BB, but now he works at.. think DB, CS, BarCap, Citi. I'm purely going by what he told me one night when we went out. I was curious about his line of work and asked about his story and whatnot.

The way I interpreted it is that it's all about the PnL at the end of the day, and if you're consistently running in the red, then senior management starts to 'talk' about you and you appear on their radar. If you don't quickly turn that around and make the firm some money, then you get the boot.

I have no idea how it's quantified (i.e. how MUCH do you have to be losing, or how LONG do you have to be in the red).

As to the turnover.. I mean I might be recalling the numbers incorrectly, but I do know for sure that he said he's seen 40 different traders in his groups during his career of 8 years.

hahahaha. you do know that citi, barcap, db, and cs are all BB's, right..?

oh and 40/8=5, not 8...

not to mention people leave on their own, move onto other firms, move to different groups...not everyone is fired.

 
leveRAGE.:
Rana Clamitans:
He used to work at a BB, but now he works at.. think DB, CS, BarCap, Citi. I'm purely going by what he told me one night when we went out. I was curious about his line of work and asked about his story and whatnot.

The way I interpreted it is that it's all about the PnL at the end of the day, and if you're consistently running in the red, then senior management starts to 'talk' about you and you appear on their radar. If you don't quickly turn that around and make the firm some money, then you get the boot.

I have no idea how it's quantified (i.e. how MUCH do you have to be losing, or how LONG do you have to be in the red).

As to the turnover.. I mean I might be recalling the numbers incorrectly, but I do know for sure that he said he's seen 40 different traders in his groups during his career of 8 years.

hahahaha. you do know that citi, barcap, db, and cs are all BB's, right..?

oh and 40/8=5, not 8...

not to mention people leave on their own, move onto other firms, move to different groups...not everyone is fired.

lol my bad. I always thought JPM, GS, and MS were the BBs while everything else wasn't -- sort of how MBB are the elite and everything else is, well, everything else.

And yeah, I'm sure not everyone got fired, but I think he said that most of them did get the boot. Point is, high turnover.

 

Depends on the product, if the guy was in prop rates or something, last 8 years have been a bit of rollercoaster.

At my shop in 2 years we have had our fair share of musical chairs, hired about 3 people fired about the same. The job does all come down to P&L, though there is lots of people stuck in the middle at most places who never will lose or win a ton, steady as they go. But depending on the shop they may not accept such performance.

Most people though at the end of day are trade junkies, this makes it sure interesting to show up everyday but also causes plenty of stress. Managing stress is one of the key skills a good trader needs today.

 
awm55:
General rule is the more liquid the product the higher the turnover and the higher the stress. Many trading desks are highly analytical and do not have to cope with making markets while dealing with intra-day volatility.

Say that to all the FICC desks on the street.

In one BB everyone you talk to on the equities floor has been there for 5+ years/since internship and turnover is extremely low, while the FICC floor...lets just say the incoming grads a year back had a HUGE amount of choice when selecting their desk (and not product, but where theyd sit)

 

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