What's your view on illegal immigration?
Simple yes or no with an explanation if you seem fit.
Do you believe illegal immigrants should receive free healthcare?
Do you believe there should be a barrier at the border? (Wall, Fence)
Do you believe ICE should be abolished?
Sanctuary Cities?
If Pablo an illegal immigrant is apprehended by law enforcement, do you believe he should be brought back to the last country he was in or he should be placed in a detention center or something else?
Feel free to chime in on other issues that I haven't included.
If you want to get meaningful discussion ask one specific question, and even better tie it in to something going on in the real world. As it stands your OP is way too broad imo.
Your first bullet is a non-sequitur.
Wow wasn't expecting this dude to get so much MS.
Ya I'm kind of curious why. Is it purely because of that first point?
Do you believe illegal immigrants should receive free healthcare?
Sure, the day all citizens have healthcare, there is a budget surplus, and we are in little debt as a country.
Do you believe there should be a barrier at the border? (Wall, Fence)
Wall of China worked wall. Walls seem to work in Israel too. There's also one at the DMZ in North/South Korea. Berlin wall worked. Wall street was apparently a wall to keep out Indians. Athens apparently had a huge wall to defend from Sparta.
Do you believe ICE should be abolished?
Sure, lets also get rid of the FBI, CIA, SEC, FCC, IRS, NSA, DOD, DHS, DEA, and others for upholding American law. I don't really like any of those.
Sanctuary Cities? Sure, let cities do what they want, as long as they can be sued for the actions of illegal immigrants. One hits me with no insurance? City better cover it. One kills a family member? City better give me a loooot of money, and maybe take criminal blame as well.
Also, they should feed them, pay for their housing, and give them jobs in the city. Once that is all done we can talk.
If Pablo an illegal immigrant is apprehended by law enforcement, do you believe he should be brought back to the last country he was in or he should be placed in a detention center or something else?
If the immigration courts are a mess, send him back. If they aren't maybe let him convince us on why he should stay.
I really do like helping people, but not at the expense of our country or me, my friends, or my families way of life.
Indeed, compassion is an individual trait, and compassionate actions are to be done on a voluntary basis. There is nothing compassionate about de facto open borders and not properly enforcing our border and immigration laws.
Honestly? This is the most rational immigration policy I've heard from either side. Freedom for everyone, but not freedom from consequences.
Every wall you cited is either a relic or was built by relics.
Actually DMZ and Israel walls are used today. Most of the others lasted past their use or are still there.
Let's take it a set up, lets build an underground barrier to stop tunnels:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/18/israel-unveils-plans-40-mil…
I found this well said and very rational. I'm on board with this, but sadly it's too hot of an issue where it's gonna be all or nothing for both sides of the aisle. Shame we can't think this rationally as a nation.
I am supportive of helping people from other countries and integrating them into the US. I also am, in an indirect way, supportive of healthcare and benefits for illegal immigrants, but NOT before we fix issues that impact our own actual citizens. I grew up in a economically stagnated area a little bit outside of Boston that is going to get even worse as retail jobs dry up. Our schools are horrible and opiate abuse is everywhere--there is an abandoned house in my neighborhood where mad junkies shoot up. I know four people myself who died, and one more who was killed in an opiate related gang shootout (all of this in a span of about 5 years). My friend who worked in a hospital ER in one of MA's worst cities (like waaay worse than where I'm from) is like emotionally scarred from how bad it was there. And this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg of problems in this country, and I just think we should fix these before we can allocate money to non-citizens. This is just one issue. Maybe I'm biased because it's stuff I have seen for myself.
When it comes to illegal immigration, there are two fundamental questions that need to be answered before policy proposals are discussed.
Do foreign nationals have a fundamental moral right to enter another country? If the answer is yes, as many on the Left believe, then the next question becomes moot.
How can we strengthen our border and dismantle the incentives that compel people to cross illegally?
Illegal aliens are rational people who are well aware of the tremendous advantages that this country offers, and they want a piece of the action. Nearly all of them are uneducated and unskilled but know that they can get blue collar jobs that will pay more than they can ever make in their home countries. They also know that they can access public resources such as schools for their kids and that if they have kids on U.S. soil, they automatically become citizens (this makes them eligible for government benefits).
So to crush illegal immigration, we have to get rid of these incentives. Yes, I support the border wall as it has been pretty effective in other countries. That is just one piece of the equation. We need mandatory e-verify that will make it a felony to hire illegals. Impose a massive tax on money that illegals send back home. Prevent illegals from accessing public resources and services (short of true medical emergencies, as I will elaborate below). Simply put, make their lives so miserable that they will self-deport and think twice about coming in illegally.
Of course, the Left now supports de facto open borders, as is clearly laid out in the Dem primary debates. They believe that anyone who is in need should be able to cross illegally without being criminally charged and that once they are here, they should be placed on the fast track to citizenship and get benefits. This position is dangerous, absurd, and a slap in the face to both U.S. citizens and legal immigrants.
Regarding some of the questions posed by the OP, there seems to be confusion on the healthcare question. BobTheBaker once again wildly misses the mark here. Yes, illegal aliens should get medical care in the case of true emergencies (e.g. hit by a car, shot, etc.). However, health care and health insurance are two separate things. The former is a product/service while the latter is a payment mechanism for the former. The Dem presidential candidates support illegal aliens being placed on taxpayer subsidized health insurance plan such as Medicare/Medicaid/CHIP. In addition to other benefits they are offering, the Dems' plan will result in a MASSIVE bombardment of illegal aliens that will make the current crisis look like child's play.
Do you believe illegal immigrants should receive free healthcare?->> only thing they should receive is a free trip out of the country (minus any asset forfeiture that should be done to cover their previous stay in country). Not only do I think they should get no free Hc but I think they should be denied spots in public schools etc
Do you believe there should be a barrier at the border? (Wall, Fence) —>> wall, e-verify, massive fines for employing illegals, heck I’d even mine the border tbh.
Do you believe ICE should be abolished? —-> massively expanding ICE would probably be the only federal jobs programme I’d support. A massive force doing round ups and deportations across the country. Then again during Eisenhower’s time they achieved like 1m deportations in 1 yr with much smaller resources.
Sanctuary Cities? >> cut off funding and fight every way possible. Jail lawmakers who openly flout immigration laws. That includes those idiots who go across border to escort illegals in
If Pablo an illegal immigrant is apprehended by law enforcement, do you believe he should be brought back to the last country he was in or he should be placed in a detention center or something else? ->>> sent away. In fact send them all to the furthest most southern point in Mexico so they’d have to repeat the journey
I can see your point that from an economic and resource standpoint illegal immigration is an issue, but do you not agree that the US makes it VERY difficult to become a citizen/get temporary residency? You hear about this all the time from people who help troops in war zones to semi-skilled workers who just want a new life. It seems that the amount of bureaucratic hurdles in the way to having legal status is unreal.
I'm an EU citizen and the process for pre-settled or settled status in the UK is incredibly easy and fast. Granted, I'm comparing a country of 320 million to one of 65 million, but should the process be simplified? You can't deny that there are plenty of jobs that immigrants are happy to take that some Americans may not. Make it easier to be a citizen/resident. Wouldn't that help the issue?
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Dude, you seriously sound like your wife cheated on you with an immigrant
Hi, Shrek2OnDVD I think it's way more complicated because our daily routine could be affected.
Are you talking about the people that wash dishes and do hard labor?
The whole world is laughing at us and western Europe as the "unfortunate" totally and utterly abuse our resources (and our lives) without a single ounce of guilt while we're sitting here all duuumb and gullible trying to help them out. Total embarrassment.
Imagine Pakistan contemplating whether or not they should allow illegal immigration LOL
DEPORT CANADIANS AND MEXICANS
I never understand what people mean by the tremendous opportunities in this country. I see homeless people everywhere in the city. Great opportunities are accessible to a small, concentrated part of the population, and the regulations and taxes make it pretty hard, even for the privileged, to make as much money as would be possible in so many other places. For immigrants that have no skills or education? Yeah, there are a lot of opportunities at fast-food joints, maybe just enough to pay for the shitty community college that will lead nowhere but it's doubtful when you have six kids.
You forgetting the massive increase in quality of life that comes from moving from third to first world. Even just clean/running water, electricity, plumbing the vast majority of earth's population doesn't have that, moving from small third world farming communities in south america to the us is a huge bump in quality of life
Buddy, if you think the regulations and taxes here make it hard to make as much as possible, think again - this is much worse in almost every other first world country.
Will everyone become a millionaire? No.
I'd rather work 80 hours a week for shit pay in the U.S. than live in one of these 3rd world countries. That's why people move here. We don't think of shitty jobs being so good until we realize that the alternative in some of these places is wiping yourself with cactus and dying from strep throat. Skyywalker is right here
Developing countries have made huge progress in improving living standards, but it's still a big gap.
We have a 3.7% unemployment rate and a GDP per capita of more than $60,000. Show some gratitude. Geesh.
Just to be honest and straight and this will not answer the question. Why does Mexico imply you have to go to prison if you overstay your visa one day in Mexico or help someone come into the country illegally. You face minimum 5-10 years if you help someone come into the country. I think it is pretty much the contradiction to be honest. Would you rather want people who have no skills or people with education who end up benefiting society such as doctors or others. Also, I believe we should get rid of birthright citizenship if you are born here unless to American citizens.
What's the big deal with actually applying for U.S citizenship, why do people think they deserve to be in the United States basically jumping in front of the line which is the border when people wait years and years to come here to the United States. It's not a big deal if you disagree but not to lie, you can't just jump the border and come live here because the situation of your country is terrible. That's Mexico fault and Central/South America fault. Do you know about the MS-13 gang problem in Long-Island, New York, that's why people are strapped up with guns.
Liberal spotted.
Good points. It is unfair to immigrants that have done the process right and waited patiently. I'm waiting for the day Hispanic immigrants riot against their own government to actually see changes and make it more livable with less violence. Sadly, most in positions of power are probably corrupt or paid off by these gangs/cartels that make fortunes. Change starts from within you can't runaway from every problem.
Hot take that everyone will hate, but here goes: 1) We should completely crack down on illegal immigrants (including those currently in the country), strengthen our borders in every way, and zero-tolerance enforce e-Verify and penalties for companies employing them 2) Then we should massively increase legal immigration of skilled immigrants who have and will continue to be the backbone of American entrepreneurship and innovation (45% of the Fortune 500 was founded by immigrants or the children of immigrants... but not unskilled, illegal immigrants)
This makes absolute, 100% sense, but there is about 20-25% of the population with outsized political power/influence that considers this a racist immigration policy and will--and has--fought this tooth and nail. Nancy Pelosi, the most powerful legislator in America, is totally opposed to this policy at a visceral, moral level.
EDIT: in fairness, on the other end, surprisingly, the Tucker Carlson wing of the GOP is totally opposed to this idea, too, as they oppose even more legal immigration. Unfortunately, even Trump is lukewarm to this perfectly reasonable take. And Senate Majority Leader McConnel seems basically ambivalent about the issue, so we are 5+ years away from having any hope of implementing this perfectly rational policy.
Ugh, Cory Booker argued against this very policy tonight--letting people in by merit. It's extremely disappointing that the Democrat leadership is so detached from a perfectly reasonable policy.
If I remember correctly, President Trump did offer the Democrats a Pathway to Citizenship plan and they threw it back in his face.
I heard it live and was dumbfounded. A million monkeys banging on typewriters could do better than the current visa lottery system we have. Countries like the UK have it closer to right: a points-based merit system for deserving candidates, and a limited, organized, application-based asylum process for others.
It really feels like leftists want a completely open Southern border with Mexico but to close off skilled immigration in return. Maybe we should be doing the opposite...
I agree 100%, a lot of liberals on this site.
just here for the shitstorm, carry on
No
There already is. Trump's "border wall" is a stupid idea. Most illegal immigration is due to overstayed visas. Trump just doesn't like brown people.
No, but it most definitely should be reformed.
What is your question?
If an illegal immigrant is caught, he or she should be deported.
This whole wall thing is stupid. Anybody ever heard of a ladder?
Not to mention that the Great Wall of China didn't actually work.
Wtf is a ladder
Last I checked Mongolia is still on the other side
To me, illegal immigration is a bloated problem that has gone on for too long. I remember my parents complaining about it when I was a kid in early 2000s. Everyone complained about it until somehow, recently, it became taboo.
My issue with it now is that it's a very delicate issue at this point, because this has been exploited to the max. Criminals tend to work like, "we know it's wrong, but they allow us to push the thread because they won't do shit, let's just force the issue before it's too late". So now the borders are overrun more than ever because Trump essentially encouraged them to come.
At the end of the day, Trump was the wrong guy to spearhead this issue. He sucks at diplomacy with sensitive issues. He's used to kissing ass of stronger people than him, white guys with more going for themselves, and has no idea how to handle weak minorities from a poor country that require more delicate diplomacy.
I agree with everything you said and I voted for Trump. It's a delicate issue because people have feeling and they feel sorry for the kids. Also those same people most likely has a cleaner in their house and when they go out to dinner someone that's probably illegal is washing the dishes.
I would argue this is absolutely not true, and is evident from the majority of the postings on this thread. The complete lack of empathy on the Right on immigration (and let's be honest, most issues) is stunning to me, no matter your preferred solution for the issue. Every single one of us would do the same for our families to escape crime and poverty. Many of our ancestors have.
Moreso than any policy issue, EMPATHY is the largest divide between the Left and Right in our country today.
In a very broad sense, the business case is typically pro-immigration (regardless of skill or legality) simply because it's a way to reduce costs (in general) with lower salaries and few/no benefits given out.
What I notice lacking in this discussion is any mention of the net positive economic impact that illegal immigrants have. I'm guessing most here (and elsewhere) who want to really crack down on illegal immigration have not eaten at a restaurant over the last week (ever wonder who's really in the kitchen?) or bought food at the grocery store. The USDA estimates that 53% of hired hands on farms are...illegals immigrants. Someone has to pick produce and put it on trucks. Something like 15% of construction workers are undocumented. It is estimated that over 20% of maids/cleaners are undocumented. In short, these folks are everywhere and most of them are working and doing critical jobs to the economy that affect us on a daily basis.
Oh and many of them pay taxes (use of ITIN rather than SSN). There are about 11m estimated illegal immigrants in the US. The IRS estimates that about 6m undocumented folks pay taxes, while the CBO estimates 50%-75% of them pay (very rough estimates, I know).
I know I have not answered the OP's questions, but I figured some basic color was needed for this debate.
My overall view is that we have much bigger fish to fry and that immigration reform is needed but personally further down the list of things that have to be done. We have wasted tons of public resources in Afghanistan/Iraq, and continue to have tons of corn/soy subsidies, our cities are still generally dangerous especially given we are a first world country, there is a huge opioid epidemic (of course now it's a social problem but crack, was of course, an issue of "family values"), the state of our public education is awful, there is rising income inequality (let's face it we are all here to try to get on the right side of that barbell), there are huge swaths of the country that don't have broadband access and our public infrastructure in general is awful.
The IRS estimates that 6 million pay taxes. The DHS believes there are 12 million illegal immigrants in the US. That means 50% don't pay taxes. Or 25-50% according to the CBO. That's a huge number of people not paying taxes. And I don't think we should celebrate 50% of people paying taxes(you don't get a reward for doing what you're obligated to do), but we should denounce the 50% that don't.
I agree that illegal immigrants serve as a labor source in industries where American citizens don't want to work. No one wants to work on a farm for 10 hours a day in the hot sun in California and pick fruit by hand. But instead of illegally coming into this country, they should get a temporary visa for the purpose of working on a farm for x number of months. There are multiple programs that allow people to do this.
No one should be paying taxes
Taking your figure of 12m illegal immigrants. I would presume that not all of them are of working age. Some will be children and some will be old, let's say that's about 20% of that population or 2.4m people. Neither group can be expected to pay taxes, though the former probably will when they get to work. That leaves 9.6m people left who are working. The estimates are 6m/9.6m which is over 60% (IRS) and it could be much higher. Not too shabby for a bunch of people who don't get benefits. We also ignore the fact that many who don't pay taxes probably get paid under the table and may earn less (or significantly less) than others. That gives management more profitability and keeps prices low for the consumer (and that's really the crux of the argument).
There is no "celebration" of 50% or more people paying taxes, just a fact, which is very different from the hyped up frenzy nonsense that "illegals are bloodsucking leeches who don't pay taxes ohmygod we have no money and resources they are taking it all up what are we going to do" that is on TV and in our political debates.
There is also no full-year visa program for illegals to work on farms. That would be a big help for all. However, telling poor people "not to come" or "wait to get a visa" while they are either fleeing or want to make more money while there is real daily demand for their work is a very very tough argument to make in a practical real life sense.
It all comes down to supply and demand. The news and today's politicians all talk about the supply of illegals, but they are doing little or nothing to address the demand for their labor and the real ramifications it would have on the economy and our daily lives. I mean lord forbid we would all have to pay a lot more money for stuff.
do you think it's easy to get a temporary visa to come into the US? Moreover, many of these people are uneducated and do not speak english. They don't even know how to begin paperwork for a visa or anything. But that isn't their fault. One of the biggest advantages is being born in the United States. In Mexico or Ecuador or wherever the hell else, no matter how hard you work, you will still be dirt poor. They're just trying to provide a better opportunity for their children and themselves, just like we are by working in finance to someday provide for our kids and families. I don't think illegal immigrants should get healthcare and I think we should stop letting them in. However, I think there should be a better system in place to give Visas and legal entries for really desperate, struggling people or skilled people
Healthcare they go to hospitals, where they are required to give everyone service. They of course don't pay. Of course that is reflected through insurance payments.
That itself is a massive number. I bet you haven't stepped foot in some of the more southern states?
May be a hot take here, but wouldn't reform to our current legal immigration system be the best option? We increase the number of legal immigrants we accept each year, increase resources to handle asylum seekers, make it a quicker process to obtain citizenship (make it easier to get an initial green card), and above all, no questions asked deport anyone who crosses illegally after that. If they are denied citizenship, they will be deported as well. In doing this, it makes the overall legal immigration system quicker and easier for seekers, which would reduce the amount of illegals we have entering this country, and get these people paying into the system and increase the overall tax revenue of the country. Everyone wins.
Yes. But you have seen how Washington has operated over the last decade plus. They probably can't even agree on what the weather is outside. All they care about is getting elected or re-elected. Nothing else matters.
Very true, even though its an easy common sense solution on both sides, neither is interested. They would rather play identity politics and have the "all or nothing mentality" and deny something that that isnt 100% their stance, instead of passing something that is better than what we have now, even if its 50% of their stance. No one wants to compromise on anything, they would rather rail against the other side and grandstand to their base to say nothing is good enough and continue to call for change when they had the ability to affect change by taking steps towards their goal and improving the situation. Identity politics leads to consistent inaction and the continued status quo.
I'm a first gen Korean American... My dad came to this country LEGALLY with $25 at the age of 21 or somewhere around there. He didn't know a hint of English and didn't even graduate middle school in South Korea. So literally, he came from nothing... Now, he and my mom live in a half million dollar house, driving a brand new Mercedes and Lexus and paying over $15K in taxes a year. Never once got anything from the government and all self made. He is living the American dream... Are they filthy rich? No... but at least is was self earned with hard work. He does construction and does his own trade... every day for 25 plus years, he leaves in the morning at 5am and comes home at 10 at night with scars and bruises from getting hurt at work... And yet, this country wants to bring ILLEGAL immigrants? Why not bring someone who could bring value to this country? Did someone help my dad out when he got here legally?
Mad props to your parents. The Left unfortunately doesn't give a flying F about people like your parents. They favor illegal aliens and lazy poor people who want to live off the government. Not sure if your parents are political, but they should consider voting for Trump and the GOP in 2020. The GOP is better aligned with the interests and values of hard working Asian-Americans.
Seems like your peers don't agree with you.
Asian-American immigrants really get the worst of both worlds: they face racism and penalties for doing well (such as higher test score thresholds) but get no help or care whatsoever because they are not an "underrepresented" minority. Suffering from success... for the record I'm not even Asian. Kudos to your parents.
This is correct. Asian-Americans have it really bad. Discriminated against in admissions and hiring, almost no positive media representation, ignored by Dems who are ostensibly the party of minorities, and it is still considered ok to make fun of Asians without repercussions. For instance, there are a ton of black on Asian violence in the major cities, but those stories get almost no national media attention. But heaven forbid, a Starbucks employee asks 2 black men to leave for not buying a beverage, and it is the #1 story nationwide for like a week, with virtue signaling liberals running around with their hair on fire, screaming, "Racism! Whites bad! Trump's fault!"
Props to your hard working parents!
Healthcare. No. They are illegal and dont pay taxes. Yes, does your house have walls and doors. Why? So things or people dont come in that you dont want. ICE abolished, No Sanctuary cities. No Pablo needs to go and wait to come here legally. Illegal immigration is illegal. Also just letting them in doesnt actually solve the problems where they are coming from.
Milton Friedman got it right when he said that you can't have unrestricted legal immigration and a welfare state. You have to keep immigration illegal so that you get the benefits of immigrants, but you don't pay them welfare and entitlement benefits.
Do you believe illegal immigrants should receive free healthcare? - No - not under any circumstances
Do you believe there should be a barrier at the border? (Wall, Fence) - Yes
Sanctuary Cities? - Absolute zero tolerance, for the simple fact that in the US these tend to be culturally and politically influential cities (NY , LA, DC) which has resulted in their transformation into power centres for hostile ethnic groups.
* If Pablo an illegal immigrant is apprehended by law enforcement, do you believe he should be brought back to the last country he was in or he should be placed in a detention center or something else?
- Taking him back to the last country would be pointless as he would just try to get back in again. Detention also pointless due to drain on resources and he would try to get back in when released. Better to form penal labor units who would be forced to serve a sentence, let's say 10 years hard back breaking labor doing useful shit. Or military units which could function as cheap cannon fodder for the next war.
It's interesting that you mentioned the military unit thing because my friend (bit older than me) served in Iraq and had direct combat experience in several engagements, including Fallujah (in which he received a relatively high award--redacted for his privacy), said that there is this MOS called combat engineer where they put like tons of hispanic soldiers and it was like the worst fucking thing to be, because they had to like clear explosives and build barricades with their backs to snipers and shit. Super high casuality rate and kinda strange how it seemed like overly hispanic. Not sure if something is going on or not and don't know more details, but we both thought it was kinda fucked.
I love your last point, making illegal aliens do hard back breaking work that will benefit this country. It will serve as punishment while teaching them important lessons. Might as well put those bodies to work.
I think that something being lost here is that illegal immigration on the southern border is predominately coming from countries that the United States has consistently messed with (that's an extremely kind way to put it). I think it's terribly ironic that Republicans complain so much about people wanting to come here for opportunities that they don't have in their native countries, when their policies (and some democrats' policies) have royally fucked up the economies and rule of law in central American countries.
https://medium.com/s/story/timeline-us-intervention-central-america-a9b… This isn't necessarily the best resource, but the immigration crisis would not be nearly severe as it is if it had not been exacerbated by extremely poorly thought out intervention in Latin America.
If you have time, please read the "Massacre at El Mozote" (https://www.amazon.com/Massacre-at-El-Mozote/dp/067975525X) and educate yourselves about the supposed "freedom fighters" that the Reagan administration supported. The truth is that American foreign policy during the 20th century (and in some cases even now) was largely designed to penalize countries moving to the left in their domestic policy objectives and democratic representation. The moves that the U.S. made covertly in these countries didn't spread economic prosperity and peace as the government argued, but rather subverted the democratic tendancies of these countries for short term goals like trade liberalization and allowing U.S. capital interests to develop these countries.
below from the Atlantic:https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/trump-and-el-…
The blowback has been far more severe than anyone ever imagined, and the end result is that these countries are far poorer and less open to American values than if we had never gotten involved.
The notion that Latin America is poor because of 20th century U.S. policy is bereft of logic and history.
For one, Latin America has never been wealthy (at least since the Spanish arrived and genetically created Latinos and sent back all the resource wealth to Spain). But the most obvious flaw in the Left's re-writing of economic history is the notion that American-backed dictators have prevented the economic growth of Latin America, as if the alternative communist dictatorships that they prevented would have produced more wealth. Chile, for example, had an American-backed right-wing dictatorship that was advised economically by conservative lion Milton Friedman, and Chile became the most economically successful nation south of the U.S. border. So without even arguing the counterfactual, the Left's talking point is bunk.
But let's look at the counterfactual. With the exception of China, which has operated as a mercantilist fascist regime since the death of Mao, no communist regime has ever succeeded economically--not in the 100 years since the Bolshevik Revolution. So you'll forgive my skepticism at the notion that Latin America would be a wealthy, prosperous region whose people don't seek to leave for economic opportunity if it weren't for American policy. Nobody could argue with a straight-face that Soviet-backed regimes would have produced peace and prosperity in Latin America.
EDIT: also, the alligator tears over 1,200 killings is somewhat laughable considering that the communist party (the people Reagan, et all were fighting in Latin America) murdered 100,000,000 people in the 20th century. One. Hundred. Million. Notice that the Leftist professors and politicians never seem to shed a tear over unconsciounably mass killings.
You can't win an argument if you try to beat "The Left". I never said that I supported China, the USSR, or communism in generally. Communism is clearly abhorrent as you've so eloquently mentioned the 100M+ deaths from the socialization of the farms in the USSR and China over the years. I'm pretty sure that the Gulag Archipelago is one such good book on the system in Russia.
I'm not saying that Latin America would be more prosperous with communism than capitalism. I'm arguing that American intervention in these countries, in particular Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Honduras perpetuated conflict, and made it far more violent than it would have been otherwise. If left alone, whether in the short or long run things would have tended farther away from communism because it is completely ineffective as a way of conserving resources. Also, the soviets only assisted in central america at the insistence of Cuba, they wanted to commit as litte resources as possible to central America.
On Chile, the Chicago Boys gave their opinion publically, and Pinochet took them up on their ideas voluntarily. You're right that Chile is much stronger economically because of American economists (monetarist school) helped point the finger at the right things to solve problems. It doesn't support your argument against me though, because the U.S. was not directly involved in the 1973 Chilean coup that put Pinochet in power. Though they were monitoring the country. I'm arguing against explicit and covert methods of military intervention in foreign affairs because usually the blowback is far worse than anything people can predict.
U.S. drug policy is partially (if not largely) to blame for the woes of these countries today. U.S. drug enforcement allows the Cartels most efficient at evading U.S. authorities to charge monopoly or oligopoly prices for the black market drugs that they funnel into the U.S. The homocides and violence in these countries is particularly bad because Cartels can't deal with people who cheat and steal from them because then public authorities would go after them, so they commit violence to protect themselves and their market pricing power.
Do you believe illegal immigrants should receive free healthcare? - No
Do you believe there should be a barrier at the border? (Wall, Fence) - Yes
Do you believe ICE should be abolished? - No,
Sanctuary Cities? - No, I know plenty of friends who were once hard-left-Democrats that switched over right now living in these Sanctuary Cities. Many are trying to get leave.
If Pablo an illegal immigrant is apprehended by law enforcement, do you believe he should be brought back to the last country he was in or he should be placed in a detention center or something else? - Deported then barred for 10 years (current laws if I am not mistaken) or lifetime ban if he is carrying drugs.
Maxime magni autem quisquam. Porro et ipsa blanditiis et delectus velit.
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Beatae fugit dicta illum neque. Quae architecto quas optio distinctio. Deserunt repellat facilis ipsa sequi facilis asperiores. Ratione corrupti distinctio reprehenderit voluptas in esse autem.
Quis alias veniam eius quis. Minus culpa nihil ipsa omnis voluptas harum. Iusto doloremque laudantium vel alias vel. Quas sunt est ab magnam alias quibusdam. Deleniti repellat quia rerum illum rerum. Magni a pariatur quia ea et qui.
Alias perferendis doloremque libero non. Iure non incidunt aliquid dignissimos quia. Est qui accusantium a nihil sed. Aspernatur ab quia inventore voluptatem quae corrupti repellendus. Eligendi minus culpa quae qui a.
Voluptas voluptas expedita consectetur cum quis ipsa voluptates. Amet aliquam non magnam ex autem earum. Molestiae molestiae quae in voluptate nesciunt. Illum rerum mollitia tenetur ea animi et architecto consequatur.
Officiis alias eum expedita magni et et. Accusantium est iste qui est ut at sint. Doloremque quaerat quisquam placeat qui. Aut nulla aliquam molestiae consequatur. Rem et possimus minus perferendis.
Reprehenderit illo debitis magnam voluptatem dolore molestias. Assumenda eius incidunt dolor nesciunt aut rem.