9/4/16

My original post on women in the workplace caused something of a commotion. I hadn't planned on a follow up, but @XSX82 forgot to check her privilege, so here we are again.

If you read my first post, you'll know that I attract (or, if you don't believe me, think I attract) a lot of women, and that it can be a problem in the workplace. I have more personal anecdotes since moving to a new company (history repeats itself, big time) and I'll share a few of them because they are relevant to the discussion at hand.

First, The Senior Vice President (SVP) From Out of Town:

The division I worked in was recently restructured, and they brought in a bunch of higher ups including an SVP from around the country for a week long event to rally the troops. The whole team heads to the bar Thursday for happy hour, and the RVP clearly enjoys her scotch. The more she drinks, the louder she gets, and the closer she gets to me while speaking. Near the end of happy hour, she informs me that "I'm from out of town, it's your responsibility to show me a good time - we've got corporate sponsorship."

I assume she's talking about the entire group, so I agree... but a few minutes later I find out the rest of the team is going home. I tell her this, but she is adamant that I take her out.

Now for the record, this woman is a smokeshow - about 5-7 years older than me, but also an aerobics instructor and a former actress. Under normal circumstances I would rail the living daylights out of her, but obviously these aren't normal circumstances

I try to resist and hang out near the group, but she starts pulling on my arm and suit jacket! All of the guys notice this and I turn bright red. Eventually she stops and says "you're being weird" and goes on her merry way. The rest of the night (and for the next 3 months) everyone calls me Kavorka (Seinfeld reference). I actually wanted to transfer to her division, but surprise surprise, my application was rejected for reasons unknown....

if a man had been all over a younger subordinate, not only would his behaviour have been condemned, he would have been fired and quite possibly brought up on sexual harassment charges. What do you have to say about this, So @glicb27?

The Good Looking Blonde (GLB) Manager:

I meet the GLB on my first day, and there is instant sexual chemistry. She manages the business development team, and is a dancer and fitness instructor. Upon introduction, the first thing she says to me is "Wow Surferdude867, you look just like very attractive and very powerful executive XYZ" and then walks away. Who said girls were subtle? She touches my arm whenever we talk, she constantly lingers by my desk, and laughs and giggles at jokes I make that are NOT funny.

I actually think there is potential here, but when she comes on to me at the Xmas party, her boyfriend shows up!!! I don't grind up on other guy's girls, so I say goodbye and resolve to stay away from her. Things get incredibly awkward at the office, and she starts to make my life uncomfortable. I won't go into detail, but I had similar experiences with 2 other women in the office, and I start to think of ways to deal with it...

So I go to HR. @XSX82, what do you think happens now? Does HR listen to what I have to say, take my concerns seriously, and potentially step in to act as an intermediary? Hardly. I'm dismissed without a second thought.

In college I once got blackout drunk and woke up having sex with what may as well have been a ditch pig, and then I went in and out of consciousness for the rest of the night. I was in no condition to give consent and according to the law, that's rape, no two ways about it. Now obviously I did the honorable thing: do the walk of shame home, puke my guts out for the next 12 hours, and let all of my friends know so they could make fun of me for the next 2 weeks. However, if I had gone to campus police, I would have been laughed out of their office.

How is it appropriate for a female colleague to come onto me at the company Christmas party? What if the situation has been reversed? I would be tried, convicted, and executed in the court of public opinion at the speed of social media

You're a girl, you get to invent new words like "mansplaining," which are undeniably sexist, and society supports you. I see girls manipulate there way out of situations all the time, is it OK if I call it Womanipulation?

I left my most recent job because they promoted two women who were not even REMOTELY qualified into VP positions over two men who had earned their stripes. Why did the company promote them? "We want more women in leadership!" Why? "Because diversity!" The department turned to complete shit almost overnight.

Honestly, I used to believe that "men dominated the finance industry" as you so eloquently put it because of sexist reasons. Now I think men dominate all industries because they are willing to put aside petty personal bullshit for the greater good, while women can't/won't. Girls seem to think that their personal feelings are the most important thing in the world, and that their feelings should be everyone's primary concern (cue Louis CK Rape Joke Clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7zzkX0xs4).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: these third wave feminists are either absolutely brilliant or absolutely braindead. Their new "movement" is either a brilliant ploy to obtain more power with less responsibility, or a bunch of morons shouting nonsense at one another.

Nullus.

@Eddie Braverman @AndyLouis @snatch @chicandtoughness @industrial_banker @Disjoint @xqtrack @Arti @handullz @the_stig @dagro @MBA_Junkie @Harbinger904 @DCDepository @Dingdong08 @XSX82 @XSX82

Comments (95)

8/29/16

I'll definitely agree women have some privilege when it comes to getting jobs--I just haven't experienced that yet too much. HR is something of its own meaning that HR is typically women so of course they would dismiss you, which is unfortunate in your case. To clarify also, I'm by no means a feminist and I find feminists pretty much annoying. But, having had an experience where I was the only women on an IB team, I kind of wished that the team would've had other women on it because listening to guys make typical guy comments all day long is tiring.

Now, I'm not totally sold on the claim that more diverse teams are more successful. I just think that an investment banking team shouldn't be all men and one women and that banks should hire more women (but only if they're qualified of course). Lastly, I even prefer to work with men b/c men are less drama anyways.

Financial Modeling
8/30/16

So you're saying that women DO have workplace privileges, and guys don't in fact run the world unilaterally?

8/30/16

honestly if you don't work in IB I don't think you can even provide any sort of valid opinion on this topic.

8/30/16

I started my career in finance and moved to tech.

8/31/16

Another industry with absolutely no gender in the workplace issues...

8/31/16

Yeah, the issue is women get all kinds of special privileges. I see women get promoted simply because they're women. "We need more women in leadership!" Why? "Because diversity!" Overqualified men are passed over because they lack lady parts. I see women get hired simply because they are women.

It's completely ridiculous.

Best Response
8/31/16

I've often wondered what it would be like to be a handsome man. I feel feelings of both hatred and admiration for you, surferdude. I've dated some of the hottest women ever but most of the time it's been for just a few weeks, before they realize they could do a lot better than me. :/

If it makes you feel any better, the rest of us mere mortal males deal with these type-A wackos, too. I will never--and I mean never--work in a situation again where a female is my superior. Don't get me wrong--I have no problem with female chief executives a la Queen Elizabeth and Margaret Thatcher (in my opinion both in the top 25 greatest heads of state of the last 500 years...)--but when it comes to inner office workings, good Christ! Women have been the absolute worst.

My first boss out of college was a bi-polar nut job, acting like she adored me while also constantly using the threat of termination to motivate me. At my last job (before my present one) I had a younger female who was my boss--this, this was hard to take. And I took it with a smile because I really, REALLY needed the job, but she was such an incredible bitch that she was actually promoted out of the department and isolated into a newly created department by herself that she now heads (with no subordinates). My firm was so dominated by men that she was actually promoted into a newly created BS position and paid more money just so she couldn't continue destroying the department's morale while still getting credit for having a female manager. At my present job about 14 months ago I had a meeting scheduled with this chick and she just didn't show up until 45 minutes later. I was like, "Dude, what's the deal? I've been waiting here for 45 minutes. Forget it now--I have things to do." She literally cried to the boss, which I didn't find out about until 6 months later (my boss didn't give a sh*t about her tears--he rocks). Finally, we hired this woman (early 50s) and we only kept her for 8 1/2 months. After 8 1/2 months she had sufficiently destroyed morale at the office and we had to let her go before she completely annihilated our office's reputation.

Women have a place in the workforce--it's called secretary. [For the benefits of the SJWs, this last sentence is a joke, but I'm not deleting it]

8/30/16

this sexist diatribe got 6 upvotes. I think we're fucking doomed.

8/30/16
BobTheBaker:

this sexist diatribe got 6 upvotes. I think we're fucking doomed.

Truth is an absolute defense to the "sexism" charge. Kind of like when I point out that you're a brain-dead idiot with absolutely no insight into any topic you've ever commented on ever, that doesn't make me a racist against blacks; that makes me correct about you.

8/30/16

You really proved your intellectual supremacy with that response bro. I cower beneath your wit.

8/31/16

Stay strong, VT4.

8/31/16

What you're forgetting is that WSO is mostly chock full of nerdy undergrads/23 year olds who are massively insecure about women. I've found the most common response to this is some version of loud misogyny/bragging about their jobs, cars, apartments, etc. I think the comment above falls in the former category.

8/31/16
Masterz57:

What you're forgetting is that WSO is mostly chock full of nerdy undergrads/23 year olds who are massively insecure about women. I've found the most common response to this is some version of loud misogyny/bragging about their jobs, cars, apartments, etc. I think the comment above falls in the former category.

You have no fucking idea what real misogyny is.

8/31/16

"Women have a place in the workforce--it's called secretary." Look, I just found it.

8/31/16
Masterz57:

"Women have a place in the workforce--it's called secretary." Look, I just found it.

First of all, that was a joke. Second of all, in half the world women are truly a sub-class of citizen, forcibly covered, sexually mutilated, disinherited from the rights of citizenship. Pointing out, for example, my actual, real experiences and saying that I choose--under my own volition--to never work as a subordinate for a woman again pales in comparison to what real, actual misogyny looks like.

But again, for you SJW-types, people aren't allowed to have differing experiences and opinions created from those experiences. If they do, you will simply label them sexist, racist, homophobic, et al.

8/31/16

First of all, there's no tone of voice nor vocal inflection online, so "jokes" like that don't come off. Second, you're certainly entitled to share your personal opinion, but you then extrapolate it to all women. I've had (and I'm SURE you've had) asshole male bosses, but I then don't go and say "man, all men must be like him, so I really don't want to work with men again". I'm no SJW, but there are mountains of evidence that there is still plenty of workforce discrimination against women. To be clear, I'm not talking about the bullshit 77c on the dollar claims (when adjusting for education, job, etc it's more like 95-97c), I'm talking about sexual harassment and the appalling lack of women in executive roles.

The OP here is making an argument akin to "I once saw an underqualified black man hired due to a diversity quota, hence racism in the workforce must be a thing of the past." In fact he goes beyond that and makes the laughable argument that women are at an advantage.

8/31/16

In my experience, there is an obvious reason that there is an "appalling lack of women in executive roles"--because men AND women can't work for women, on average. The OP and I aren't extrapolating based on an isolated incident--we are extrapolating based on our collective experience over several different companies in several different roles, with female managers and female co-workers.

The reality doesn't sit well with people who hold utopian ideas about "gender equality", but the reality is that males and females are physiologically different and these physiological differences manifest themselves in different behaviors and attitudes. These different behaviors and attitudes serve both sexes well in different circumstances. Unfortunately for women, their manifested behaviors, on average, serve them less well in modern office professional work environment. (As a counter, the manifested attitudes and behaviors of males serve males less well in the modern educational system.) And it isn't male sexism--women are the biggest haters on women in the workplace. My position is, if you want to have an abundance of female employees, then discourage female management because women generally won't allow themselves to be led by other women.

Am I wrong? Maybe. But my collective experience has demonstrated this to me. And maybe my experiences are wrong, but they are my experiences nonetheless.

8/31/16

Translation: I have an established office environment based on white male behavior and any attempts to change that or incorporate other behaviors into that environment is anathema to me. The more you post the more I am convinced you are the most entitled tool I have ever come across. I won't even comment on the litany of generalizations you reeled off in your post, it's pointless.

8/31/16
BobTheBaker:

Translation: I have an established office environment based on white male behavior and any attempts to change that or incorporate other behaviors into that environment is anathema to me. The more you post the more I am convinced you are the most entitled tool I have ever come across. I won't even comment on the litany of generalizations you reeled off in your post, it's pointless.

In the spirit of Glenn Quagmire toward Brian Griffin, your insufferable, judgmental attitude in thread after thread would be tolerable if you weren't so damn boring. At least say something interesting and insightful for once rather than just responding to people's posts with personal assaults. At least bring something to the table in at least one thread one time. Bring some unique or interesting thought, even if we disagree with it. But you're the most worthless poster on this entire website.

8/31/16

You firmly fit in your box but I am uninteresting, that's funny dude. By the way, you initiated the personal assaults.

8/31/16
BobTheBaker:

You firmly fit in your box but I am uninteresting, that's funny dude. By the way, you initiated the personal assaults.

First of all, I didn't. You called my post a "sexist diatribe" but that's neither here nor there. You do specialize in dropping into a thread and producing nothing except attacks.

The thing is, every position you take on everything is entirely predictable. I mean, my positions run from rational to crazy, obviously correct to probably wrong, right-wing to left-wing. Everything you say on every topic, however, is from the position of this left-wing echo chamber, akin to a Hollywood celebrity. Your beliefs--and, what's worse, your arguments--are as shallow as Brad Pitt or Angelina Jolie giving their opinions of the world. You're this run-in-the-mill black guy with this chip on his shoulder toward white people who takes monolithically left-wing, politically correct positions on every topic. You're honestly a living, breathing stereotype.

So I'll reiterate--your insufferable, condescending attitude would be tolerable if you weren't such a predictable, boring individual. I would encourage you to actually get out into the world and to meet people every once in a while who hold differing opinions from you.

8/31/16

you clearly don't know what a personal assault is. I called what you said sexist, just like you may call what I say stupid. That doesn't mean I called you sexist or you called me stupid. People who aren't racist say racist shit all the time, you can call that out without calling them racist. I hope I cleared that up for you. I find it hilarious that you, a privileged white conservative male (your dad was a CFO right?), somehow think your privileged white male conservative views have any sort of originality. One of my coworkers told me he is voting for Trump, I disagree with him on this issue but he is one of the best guys to be around and we shoot the shit all the time, in the real world (not the interwebz) you can disagree with someone and still get along. I'm sure when people think of black male they think of first-generation libertarian immigrant that works in finance, so stereotypical.

9/7/16
Virginia Tech 4ever:

You're this run-in-the-mill black guy

Hahaha the expression is "run-OF-the-mill". I'm assuming english is your second language?

9/7/16
Going Concern:

Virginia Tech 4ever:You're this run-in-the-mill black guy

Hahaha the expression is "run-OF-the-mill". I'm assuming english is your second language?

You realize that "English" is supposed to be capitalized, don't you? Am I to assume that English is your second language?

9/7/16
Virginia Tech 4ever:

Going Concern: Virginia Tech 4ever:You're this run-in-the-mill black guyHahaha the expression is "run-OF-the-mill". I'm assuming english is your second language?

You realize that "English" is supposed to be capitalized, don't you? Am I to assume that English is your second language?

No need to get defensive, it's fine that engrish isn't your first language. Just work on your idioms a bit and you'll be fine

9/7/16
Going Concern:

Virginia Tech 4ever: Going Concern: Virginia Tech 4ever:You're this run-in-the-mill black guyHahaha the expression is "run-OF-the-mill". I'm assuming english is your second language?You realize that "English" is supposed to be capitalized, don't you? Am I to assume that English is your second language?

No need to get defensive, it's fine that engrish isn't your first language. Just work on your idioms a bit and you'll be fine

Are you serious? You aren't even putting periods at the end of your sentence and yet you're correcting my idioms? How about you learn to capitalize and use punctuation? If you're going to be the police of "English" (yes, that's capitalized) then at least make sure you are using proper English grammar when correcting someone else's English. But frankly, I couldn't possibly care less about your piss poor grammar skills.

9/4/16

Virginia Tech 4ever works in real estate. You've gotta cut him some slack-he's not as... developed, as some of us lol

8/31/16

I've had many different bosses, with a roughly equal split between male and female, and I will never work for a woman again.

The problem is, there is no check on female behavior. They can scream, and cry, and manipulate, and gossip, and do all sorts of crap that men would be fired for almost instantly. I've been sexually harassed by women in the workplace several times and no one takes it seriously; I get laughed at and told that "Come on you know you want it." by men and women alike... Hmmmm isn't this EXACTLY what feminists have been complaining about? That there is a rape culture which blames the victim?

Misandry rules the day, not misogyny.

8/31/16

it's honestly sad that you believe misandry is a bigger issue that misogyny in the work place. I don't know how people come up with this nonsense. It's like how republicans believe discrimination against white people is a bigger issue than discrimination of minority groups in modern day America (I believe the numbers were something like 65-35). How can anyone believe this? Because people are entrenched in their ignorance, idiocy, and/or bigotry. Truly a sad state of affairs.

8/31/16

That's because you're stupid. Sorry to be harsh, but it's true.

Anyone who isn't completely brain washed by the media can see there is a "bubble in women."

Let's start by looking at the case of Nobel Laureate Tim Hunt - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Hunt
The man made a PRO WOMAN joke, that a female journalist with fake credentials misrepresented, and Mr. Hunt was forced to resign and leave his country for fucks sake. What happened to the (female) journalist after it was discovered she lied about her credentials, and left out key facts in her report? Nothing. What would have happened if a man made up a fake story about a woman? I'll let you figure that out.

It's illegal to say anything negative about women today in the Western world.

8/31/16

Won't comment on the joke as it was made in poor taste. Will say that even if you feel the reaction was unjustified your anecdote is just that, an anecdote. There is mountains of evidence displaying that misogyny is a problem in corporate America and you choose to ignore it but I am the stupid one. Got it. What's funny is that many of the comments on this thread basically confirm the issue: you think if you interviewed a woman for a position within your firm you'd give her the same treatment as a male and judge based on qualifications? I doubt it.

8/31/16

Tim Hunt: "It's strange that such a chauvinist monster like me has been asked to speak to women scientists. Let me tell you about my trouble with girls. Three things happen when they are in the lab: you fall in love with them, they fall in love with you, and when you criticise them they cry. Perhaps we should make separate labs for boys and girls? Now, seriously, I'm impressed by the economic development of Korea. And women scientists played, without doubt an important role in it. Science needs women, and you should do science, despite all the obstacles, and despite monsters like me.

So, congratulations, everybody, and I hope - I hope - I hope - I really do hope there is nothing holding you back, especially not monsters like me."

What monster!!!

In fact, all of the "mountains of evidence" show that the problem of misogyny in the West has been so vastly overestimated by statistical manipulation (1 in 4 women in college are raped... Please!) that any "facts and figures" are essentially meaningless.

8/31/16

so you're with the "data is biased so I should ignore all data" camp. If that's the case then this is pointless. You'll believe whatever you believe regardless of any evidence presented to the contrary, we can stop going back and forth now.

8/31/16

No, I'm with the "let's use the most accurate data we have and continuously refine it like logical humans" camp. For example, The DoJ released rape statistics that suggested 1 in 52 women are victims of rape. To be clear, that is a travesty, but it's an order of magnitude less than the propaganda spread.

I'm also not above using my eyes and ears and thinking for myself... something you might want to try some day,

Men's complaints are typically ignored - I know, because I have been repeatedly harassed in the workplace by women who seem to think that it's my job to pleasure them and make them feel pretty on command.

8/31/16
BobTheBaker:

so you're with the "data is biased so I should ignore all data" camp. If that's the case then this is pointless. You'll believe whatever you believe regardless of any evidence presented to the contrary, we can stop going back and forth now.

What data?

8/31/16

You're out of your fucking mind if you think misandry is a bigger problem than misogyny. I bet you also believe that white men are discriminated against and that black men "rule the day".

All of this misandry has produced female presidents, lots of female congresswomen, female executives. I practically have to search with a microscope to find any men in positions of power.

It's also all those men who get cat-called on the street, groped in the subway and at bars, harassed online because of their gender. It's the men who get messages on dating apps like "why don't you s**** my d***". And as we all know, men are the overwhelming majority of rape victims.

As a white male, I'm not sure how I've made it this far in a world so overrun by misandry. I must have been truly special to make it as far as I have.

8/31/16

Yes, there are far more men in public positions of power than there are women. Fortune 500 execs, congressman, senators, etc... At the absolute height of wealth and power in the western world, you see a disproportionate number of men.

However, you're only looking at one side of the equation. If you look at the very bottom of the economic totem pole i.e. the homeless, the prisoners, the people working dirty and dangerous jobs, the people with serious drug and alcohol addictions, the suicide victims... the overwhelming majority of these poor souls are men.

As usual, you are totally underestimating the dark side of women. For the longest time, men had been completely excluded from rape laws and statistics on the victim side because it was assumed men CAN'T be raped. Let me tell you, I've had plenty of girls get me blackout drunk and then take advantage of me, which was considered funny; If the roles had been reversed it would have been considered rape. I've had plenty of girls grab my cock and scream unwanted, aggressively sexual things at me. Women aren't some special species that are incapable of committing crimes - they are human. Girls get all kinds of special privileges because they are thought of as the weaker sex. Now, they want to keep all of those privileges, but also be considered equal in all of the domains that are a positive. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

If you include prison rapes, the gap narrows DRASTICALLY.

I don't have an informed opinion on the challenges minorities face - they have it extremely rough.

8/31/16

I've also had sex while blackout drunk and don't consider it a big deal. I've also been groped at bars. And you're right, in that arena there is a double standard. However, it doesn't bother me all that much. You know why? Because I don't have to deal with the threat of sexual violence. Women have to think of that possibility all the time. Most men they date can, if they so choose, physically overpower them. I don't have that issue. I think Louis CK says it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDh4qk1Tl8k.

Secondly, it happens to men FAR less than it happens to women. Go around and ask any female friends you have (although based on your attitude I doubt it's very many) and have them tell you about their experiences at work, on the street, etc. It might be eye opening to you. Then ask the same question of your male friends. You might discover a tiny disparity in the prevalence of these types of incidents.

I'll happily trade the double standard I just referenced for all the other ones women have to deal with (slut shaming, being called "bitchy" or "aggressive" when they act just like men to name two of the most prevalent). I'll make that trade every day of the week.

8/31/16

Yes sexual violence is a problem, and it's a travesty. However, fake statistics are being used to demonize men and keep women in a state of fear. It's 1 in 52, not 1 in 4.

As a man, you may not have to deal with the threat of sexual violence as much as a woman does, but you do have your own set of worries. I.E. if a girl decides she wants to bear your children, if you get her pregnant you are FUCKED; on the hook for potentially unlimited child support and alimony for a minimum of 18 years. Or if you have drunken sex with her and afterwards she regrets it, you are now a rapist (http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/duke-dean-drunken-...).
Since you mentioned Louis C.K. I think he says THIS best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgHdOTR6htc"A man will burn your house down, or beat the shit out of you... but a woman will ruin your fucking life."

And oh please with "slut shaming." You know who slut shames women? Other women.

And the same negative comments are made to men, however they are called "pricks" or "assholes" instead of bitchy. On the flip side, If a man ISN'T aggressive, he is seen as "soft" or a "pussy."

And God forbid a woman needs to change her behaviour. I hear women say "girls should be able to walk around drunk, stark naked, in the ghetto, and not worry about being raped." Ok fair enough, that SHOULD be the case.

But it isn't. But if someone suggests that MAYBE girls should take responsibility for their actions and NOT get blackout drunk and stumble around dangerous areas, that someone is now a "rape apologist." IF a man were to get blackout drunk, stumble around, and then get robbed, he would be called a "dumbass" and people would say "he was asking for it."

Sound familiar?

Oh right, all of this is because PATRIARCHY!

Nullus.

8/31/16

I'm done with this argument, it's not going anywhere. If your thread had been: "hey, there are certain double standards that are disadvantageous to men vis-a-vis women, and I don't like that" I would have shrugged and said "sure, you're right". However, you went with a whole "men are discriminated against, misandry is a bigger problem than misogyny" angle, which is just so patently untrue I'm surprised I've responded so many times. Are there instances where women get favorable treatment because of diversity initiatives? Yes, absolutely. What you seem to fail to understand is those are SPECIAL INSTANCES. The general rule is that men receive favorable treatment ALL THE TIME for being men. You work in tech. How many men in tech companies do you think are harassed, told they don't belong, stereotyped as weak coders, etc because they are men? Answer: a vanishingly small number. Meanwhile, that happens to women constantly. As I said, I will eagerly, happily, seven-days-a-week-and-twice-on-Sunday trade whatever small boosts women get from double standards and diversity programs to what I get by being a white man.

8/31/16

LOL @ special instances. Sorry but you're wrong.

8/31/16

The analogy you use is NOT AT ALL accurate.

Every WOMAN I know prefers to work for a man. Every. Single. One. Even my feminist mom. Is that the evil patriarchy and sexism at work? Clearly not. I've had multiple female bosses and they were all just terrible to work for. Does that mean EVERY female boss sucks? Clearly not, but you're blind if you don't see a pattern here.

And that 77 cent on the dollar statistic is taken as gospel! If you even TRY to refute that publicly you are instantly labeled as a sexist, misogynist, rape apologist, slut/fat shaming, manspreading, mansplaining, pig.

How do you not see that advantages women have? Men have some advantages as well, 100%. Some of them are great advantages. But society acts like women are these preyed upon victims who are perpetually fucked over by the evil MAN MACHINE. That's just wrong.

Once again, you look at the top of pyramid, but you fail to look at the bottom. People in the absolute worst positions, the dregs of society in the Western world are overwhelmingly male. Men die earlier, are more likely to commit suicide, more likely to be homeless, more likely to suffer from substance abuse, and are generally less happy than women... But no one cares, including you apparently.

8/31/16

+1. Insinuating that a woman, any woman, is incapable of anything is a modern day thoughtcrime.

Misandry rules the day in the Western world.

8/31/16

Oh it would have more if I had WSO credit.

If you can't kill them with kindness, just kill them.

Financial Modeling
8/30/16

OP.. First off, where the hell do you work where every person has such a rich life outside work (fitness instructor, actress, dancer, etc) ??? :)

Secondly.. If you want to be anything other than a homeless unemployed man you just have to take it lying down - just make your peace with that now. History shows that we always over-correct and our generation is just stuck with this 'rules don't apply to women' people. Thankfully, they are a significant minority even among women.

Finally, my advice:

  1. Don't sit where you eat. In fact, I am a proponent of dating people not in one's industry. It brings a different perspective to life and reminds you that there is a bigger world out there. Besides, you will be out in the street on your a in a matter of seconds if a female coworker just so happens to wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day.
  2. If they are actually coming on to you, casually say something like this, "you remind me of my sister/mother/aunt, etc. because she also loves running (any positive reason will do)". This clashes directly with the SJW narrative , "I am the most beautiful thing on earth. Every man on this planet wants me. I can have it all. Rules don't apply to me because I am a woman.". If you have never done this before, just brace yourself for the comical expression that comes next next - mainly because they just cannot fathom the idea that not every man is interested in her. These are the women you want to avoid regardless.
8/30/16

I work on the business side of tech in a city known for health and fitness (think Colorado).

8/30/16

Tech Sales In Boulder?

8/30/16

Not Boulder but a place like it.

8/30/16

what's the point of this thread? a humblebrag? a question as to why there's a double standard? complaining because a double standard exists? these kinds of things happen man, happens to a lot of guys out there. just take it as a compliment. if a woman wanted to cheat with you, she'd do it.

you're mistaking hot women in sales being nice to you with hot women in sales wanting to fuck you. the way women sell is very different than men. it is flirtatious, but I guarantee if you tried to make a move, she'd shut it down real quick, it's just their style.

quit your bitching.

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

8/30/16

It's a reply to GLCIB's assertion that men rule the world with an iron fist.

I'm not mistaking anything. I know when a girl wants to fuck, because I've made the mistake of hooking up in the office. Interpreting signals isn't rocket science,

8/30/16

.

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My story | My Linkedin

8/30/16

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/equity-2016-...
I posted as a response to GLICB in this thread.

8/31/16

You were mentioned because this is a front page worthy post.

8/31/16

As usual you spout your mouth off while having no idea what you're talking about.

8/31/16

that's fair. you've got no idea if I know what I'm talking about, and clearly I must be stupid because I thought this was a thread asking for advice at first click, only to realize it's turning into a shit throwing jamboree for insecure and short tempered. have fun getting angry at strangers on the internet, it'll do wonders for your social life.

godspeed

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

8/31/16

Thank you oh wise one.

9/4/16

Beautifully put @thebrofessor . WSO can be really great, but the immaturity on display here can be insane

9/19/16

"shit throwing jamboree" - I haven't laughed this good for a couple of months (social life been non-existent this summer), thanks for this one lol.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

10/26/16
thebrofessor:

you're mistaking hot women in sales being nice to you with hot women in sales wanting to fuck you. the way women sell is very different than men. it is flirtatious, but I guarantee if you tried to make a move, she'd shut it down real quick, it's just their style.

As a female who previously suffered from Total Bitch Syndrome (aka Borderline Personality Disorder, but that's a story for another day), I'll say this: 80% of the time, when a woman flirts with a guy, it's not because he's smoking hot. It's because she needs validation that she is hot. And, like psychology 101 tells us, most people in potential win/lose social situations tend towards positive self-preservation. That is, an 8/10 female will most likely hit on a 5/10 male to guarantee that she gets a favourable response - she likes attention, from anyone. Even better if it's multiple anyones. She doesn't necessarily plan on following through with anything serious; she just wants a couple of free drinks, compliments, and attention to validate her own self-worth. Source: my entire circle of female friends, 6 years ago. Cannot count the number of free dinners+drinks we've had and fake phone numbers we've given out.

Guys like OP are suckers who drink it up. We like that. Yes, please, take us out and show us a good time (and the inside of your wallet). Tell us how hot we look, tell the internet how hot we look. But don't expect us to actually fuck you in your office.

I don't deny they were probably flirting with you. I just don't think they were flirting with you because you are all that and a bag of dicks.

That said, on the flip side, I do agree that a certain population of females (who may overlap with the kind I describe above) are definitely "new age feminists" who like to use their gender to get special treatment. Not denying that, but favouritism goes many ways, not just for females or males or straight dudes or lesbians or minorities. Not something I have personally experienced (being an Asian female is like being not hot enough to lump into the female category but not bro enough to be lumped into the boy's club, and oh, apparently Asians aren't minorities anymore lol).

EDIT in case it wasn't clear, was addressing OP for most of this post, not @thebrofessor

Currently: clinical psychologist (in training)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

10/26/16

welcome back, been too long. hope your new adventure is going well

"The four most dangerous words in investing are: 'this time it's different.'" - Sir John Templeton

"The investor's chief problem - and even his worst enemy - is likely to be himself." - Benjamin Graham

10/4/17

Wrong.

8/30/16

At first I thought OP was kidding....then I realized, 'twas not. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

OP killed Harambe.

9/2/16

oh no!

How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!

9/4/16

For the life of me, I can't understand this whole Harambe thing. Care to enlighten me?

9/4/16

Click here. http://heavy.com/news/2016/05/harambe-gorilla-cinc...
Bad (parents/accident) let kid fall into gorilla enclosure. Zoo kills gorilla to prevent it from hurting boy. People lose their mind.

You a cali bruin?

How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!

9/4/16

Sorry, I should clarify: I know the facts of the matter, but I am bewildered as to why/how it become a 'meme' (I think that's what the kids call it)

I am indeed out here on the West Coast. Go Bruins (not a UCLA alum, but am an LA native)

9/4/16
Macro Bruin:

Sorry, I should clarify: I know the facts of the matter, but I am bewildered as to why/how it become a 'meme' (I think that's what the kids call it)

beats me.

Go bruins!

How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!

8/30/16

Anyone who takes this at face value is a fool. Never happened.

8/31/16

You're an idiot.

8/31/16

So the moral of the story is to be ugly.

Just look like you belong in a zoo; and shit like this won't even happen. Guess most of WSO is safe from these "venomous" women.

I think- therefore I fuck

9/4/16

Lol this is great

8/31/16

An interesting article I saw recently about this topic:

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/03/07/womens-d...

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

9/1/16

Sent this to around 10 other bros. All of them had this same experience except w/o the violence. +1 on point.

8/31/16

My first-line manager is a male but after that, it's female all the way up in my division. I work in technology and women really look out for each other in the workplace via work group (e.g. Women in Technology) and executive mentorship opportunities. People in my sector refer to this as "The Good Ole Girls Club".

I've bitched about the feminist movement before in my workplace to co-workers when I hear the blatant gospel about how females need to band together in order to progress in the workplace but at the end of the day, I'm doing a fine job of navigating given my organization's environment. Those who are most impacted are the grey-haired, good old boys club type guys who refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

8/31/16

What in the hell happened here?

8/31/16

What do you mean?

8/31/16

The boy's club is gone.

9/4/16

You're a prospective monkey. I advise you to wait until you join the ranks of the plutocracy to make that judgment

9/4/16

I was misguided, Papa Bear. I still have much to learn.

8/31/16

I know this feeling well

Every job I have worked since college, a woman has been in leadership. this is the first time ever that I have a male boss.

I have had to deal with so much "fluffy" stuff, it would make your head spin.

You are not alone bro

9/1/16

It's ridiculous isn't it? Females get away with so much shit that would NEVER fly if a man was in charge.

8/31/16

Man, surferdude. That's wild, bro.

You'd never guess what happened to me though.

First, The Senior Vice President (SVP) From Out of Town:

The division I worked in was recently restructured, and they brought in a bunch of higher ups including an SVP from around the country for a week long event to rally the troops. The whole team heads to the bar Thursday for happy hour, and the RVP clearly enjoys her scotch. The more she drinks, the louder she gets, and the closer she gets to me while speaking. Near the end of happy hour, she informs me that "I'm from out of town, it's your responsibility to show me a good time - we've got corporate sponsorship."

I assume she's talking about the entire group, so I agree... but a few minutes later I find out the rest of the team is going home. I tell her this, but she is adamant that I take her out.

Now for the record, this woman is a smokeshow - about 5-7 years older than me, but also an aerobics instructor and a former actress. Under normal circumstances I would rail the living daylights out of her, but obviously these aren't normal circumstances

I try to resist and hang out near the group, but she starts pulling on my arm and suit jacket! All of the guys notice this and I turn bright red. Eventually she stops and says "you're being weird" and goes on her merry way. The rest of the night (and for the next 3 months) everyone calls me Kavorka (Seinfeld reference). I actually wanted to transfer to her division, but surprise surprise, my application was rejected for reasons unknown....

if a man had been all over a younger subordinate, not only would his behaviour have been condemned, he would have been fired and quite possibly brought up on sexual harassment charges. What do you have to say about this, So @glicb27?

The Good Looking Blonde (GLB) Manager:

I meet the GLB on my first day, and there is instant sexual chemistry. She manages the business development team, and is a dancer and fitness instructor. Upon introduction, the first thing she says to me is "Wow Surferdude867, you look just like very attractive and very powerful executive XYZ" and then walks away. Who said girls were subtle? She touches my arm whenever we talk, she constantly lingers by my desk, and laughs and giggles at jokes I make that are NOT funny.

I actually think there is potential here, but when she comes on to me at the Xmas party, her boyfriend shows up!!! I don't grind up on other guy's girls, so I say goodbye and resolve to stay away from her. Things get incredibly awkward at the office, and she starts to make my life uncomfortable. I won't go into detail, but I had similar experiences with 2 other women in the office, and I start to think of ways to deal with it...

So I go to HR. @GLCIB27, what do you think happens now? Does HR listen to what I have to say, take my concerns seriously, and potentially step in to act as an intermediary? Hardly. I'm dismissed without a second thought.

In college I once got blackout drunk and woke up having sex with what may as well have been a ditch pig, and then I went in and out of consciousness for the rest of the night. I was in no condition to give consent and according to the law, that's rape, no two ways about it. Now obviously I did the honorable thing: do the walk of shame home, puke my guts out for the next 12 hours, and let all of my friends know so they could make fun of me for the next 2 weeks. However, if I had gone to campus police, I would have been laughed out of their office.

How is it appropriate for a female colleague to come onto me at the company Christmas party? What if the situation has been reversed? I would be tried, convicted, and executed in the court of public opinion at the speed of social media

You're a girl, you get to invent new words like "mansplaining," which are undeniably sexist, and society supports you. I see girls manipulate there way out of situations all the time, is it OK if I call it Womanipulation?

I left my most recent job because they promoted two women who were not even REMOTELY qualified into VP positions over two men who had earned their stripes. Why did the company promote them? "We want more women in leadership!" Why? "Because diversity!" The department turned to complete shit almost overnight.

Honestly, I used to believe that "men dominated the finance industry" as you so eloquently put it because of sexist reasons. Now I think men dominate all industries because they are willing to put aside petty personal bullshit for the greater good, while women can't/won't. Girls seem to think that their personal feelings are the most important thing in the world, and that their feelings should be everyone's primary concern (cue Louis CK Rape Joke Clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7zzkX0xs4).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: these third wave feminists are either absolutely brilliant or absolutely braindead. Their new "movement" is either a brilliant ploy to obtain more power with less responsibility, or a bunch of morons shouting nonsense at one another.

Nullus.

Crazy, right?

8/31/16

Y'all crack me up! How about just live and let live? :)
There will be jerks. Get over it!! :)

9/4/16
MBA_Junkie:

Y'all crack me up! How about just live and let live? :)There will be jerks. Get over it!! :)

I'm with this guy!

9/1/16

Never had such problems cuz i'm ugly af (with a bit of sarcasm). If they flirt with you the best response I guess would be just to stay chill until they literally grab your crotch, then you know what to do.

I'm currently leaving my job at a mutual fund because I don't want to deal with this woman bs, I got a pile of crap dropped on me because I did not add the word "Samsung" to an Excel document, lol. Since I know that from that point it will only get worst I just decided to bail. I didn't complain, I didn't tell anyone. Took me 4 days to get a broker position in a local bank, front desk, 4 people, all men. No more drama for me.

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.

9/1/16

I've worked for and with women without any more problems than male counterparts. I've noticed the women were more detail oriented, which probably stems from a bit of nature and a bit of people like you scrutinizing every comma of their work product looking for a mistake to justify the view that they're unqualified.

Maybe they pick up on your obvious misogyny and maybe you're in your own way by only seeing what amounts to confirmation bias. You obviously are not an intelligent individual, so I would recommend assuming the problem is with you and see where that train of thought guides you.

9/1/16

Can't believe it took this long into the thread for someone to introduce this idea. I find it interesting that even though we all know that confirmation bias exists, it still gets the better of us all the time. Of course, I was not with the OP, and thus have no clue what circumstances he has gone through, but a lot of what I've read in this thread as a little ridiculous.

9/4/16

Extremely well put @ArcherVice couldn't agree more. I've had more drama in my personal life with women than men, but that's 100% because you're more likely to have issues with a woman you're sleeping with than you are with your bros.

On a separate note, I'm a sucker for heuristics references so SB for you

9/5/16
ArcherVice:

I've worked for and with women without any more problems than male counterparts. I've noticed the women were more detail oriented, which probably stems from a bit of nature and a bit of people like you scrutinizing every comma of their work product looking for a mistake to justify the view that they're unqualified.

Maybe they pick up on your obvious misogyny and maybe you're in your own way by only seeing what amounts to confirmation bias. You obviously are not an intelligent individual, so I would recommend assuming the problem is with you and see where that train of thought guides you.

This is pretty much...a great rebuttal to the OP's thread.

10/4/17

Nah the problem is you're stupid.

9/1/16

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"Look, it tells time simultaneously in Monte Carlo, Beverly Hills, London, Paris, Rome, and Gstaad." - Louis Winthorpe III

"Losers average losers." - PTJ

9/4/16

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

9/5/16
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9/6/16
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