Women in the Workplace Pt 2: Rigged Markets, Inside Information, and the “Softer” Sex

surferdude867's picture
Rank: King Kong | 1,445

My original post on women in the workplace caused something of a commotion. I hadn't planned on a follow up, but @XSX82 forgot to check her privilege, so here we are again.

If you read my first post, you'll know that I attract (or, if you don't believe me, think I attract) a lot of women, and that it can be a problem in the workplace. I have more personal anecdotes since moving to a new company (history repeats itself, big time) and I'll share a few of them because they are relevant to the discussion at hand.

First, The Senior Vice President (SVP) From Out of Town:

The division I worked in was recently restructured, and they brought in a bunch of higher ups including an SVP from around the country for a week long event to rally the troops. The whole team heads to the bar Thursday for happy hour, and the RVP clearly enjoys her scotch. The more she drinks, the louder she gets, and the closer she gets to me while speaking. Near the end of happy hour, she informs me that "I'm from out of town, it's your responsibility to show me a good time - we've got corporate sponsorship."

I assume she's talking about the entire group, so I agree... but a few minutes later I find out the rest of the team is going home. I tell her this, but she is adamant that I take her out.

Now for the record, this woman is a smokeshow - about 5-7 years older than me, but also an aerobics instructor and a former actress. Under normal circumstances I would rail the living daylights out of her, but obviously these aren't normal circumstances

I try to resist and hang out near the group, but she starts pulling on my arm and suit jacket! All of the guys notice this and I turn bright red. Eventually she stops and says "you're being weird" and goes on her merry way. The rest of the night (and for the next 3 months) everyone calls me Kavorka (Seinfeld reference). I actually wanted to transfer to her division, but surprise surprise, my application was rejected for reasons unknown....

if a man had been all over a younger subordinate, not only would his behaviour have been condemned, he would have been fired and quite possibly brought up on sexual harassment charges. What do you have to say about this, So @glicb27?

The Good Looking Blonde (GLB) Manager:

I meet the GLB on my first day, and there is instant sexual chemistry. She manages the business development team, and is a dancer and fitness instructor. Upon introduction, the first thing she says to me is "Wow Surferdude867, you look just like very attractive and very powerful executive XYZ" and then walks away. Who said girls were subtle? She touches my arm whenever we talk, she constantly lingers by my desk, and laughs and giggles at jokes I make that are NOT funny.

I actually think there is potential here, but when she comes on to me at the Xmas party, her boyfriend shows up!!! I don't grind up on other guy's girls, so I say goodbye and resolve to stay away from her. Things get incredibly awkward at the office, and she starts to make my life uncomfortable. I won't go into detail, but I had similar experiences with 2 other women in the office, and I start to think of ways to deal with it...

So I go to HR. @XSX82, what do you think happens now? Does HR listen to what I have to say, take my concerns seriously, and potentially step in to act as an intermediary? Hardly. I'm dismissed without a second thought.

In college I once got blackout drunk and woke up having sex with what may as well have been a ditch pig, and then I went in and out of consciousness for the rest of the night. I was in no condition to give consent and according to the law, that's rape, no two ways about it. Now obviously I did the honorable thing: do the walk of shame home, puke my guts out for the next 12 hours, and let all of my friends know so they could make fun of me for the next 2 weeks. However, if I had gone to campus police, I would have been laughed out of their office.

How is it appropriate for a female colleague to come onto me at the company Christmas party? What if the situation has been reversed? I would be tried, convicted, and executed in the court of public opinion at the speed of social media

You're a girl, you get to invent new words like "mansplaining," which are undeniably sexist, and society supports you. I see girls manipulate there way out of situations all the time, is it OK if I call it Womanipulation?

I left my most recent job because they promoted two women who were not even REMOTELY qualified into VP positions over two men who had earned their stripes. Why did the company promote them? "We want more women in leadership!" Why? "Because diversity!" The department turned to complete shit almost overnight.

Honestly, I used to believe that "men dominated the finance industry" as you so eloquently put it because of sexist reasons. Now I think men dominate all industries because they are willing to put aside petty personal bullshit for the greater good, while women can't/won't. Girls seem to think that their personal feelings are the most important thing in the world, and that their feelings should be everyone's primary concern (cue Louis CK Rape Joke Clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7zzkX0xs4).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: these third wave feminists are either absolutely brilliant or absolutely braindead. Their new "movement" is either a brilliant ploy to obtain more power with less responsibility, or a bunch of morons shouting nonsense at one another.

Nullus.

@Eddie Braverman @AndyLouis @snatch @chicandtoughness @industrial_banker @Disjoint @xqtrack @Arti @handullz @the_stig @dagro @MBA_Junkie @Harbinger904 @DCDepository @Dingdong08 @XSX82 @XSX82

Comments (95)

Aug 29, 2016

I'll definitely agree women have some privilege when it comes to getting jobs--I just haven't experienced that yet too much. HR is something of its own meaning that HR is typically women so of course they would dismiss you, which is unfortunate in your case. To clarify also, I'm by no means a feminist and I find feminists pretty much annoying. But, having had an experience where I was the only women on an IB team, I kind of wished that the team would've had other women on it because listening to guys make typical guy comments all day long is tiring.

Now, I'm not totally sold on the claim that more diverse teams are more successful. I just think that an investment banking team shouldn't be all men and one women and that banks should hire more women (but only if they're qualified of course). Lastly, I even prefer to work with men b/c men are less drama anyways.

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Aug 30, 2016

So you're saying that women DO have workplace privileges, and guys don't in fact run the world unilaterally?

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Aug 29, 2016

honestly if you don't work in IB I don't think you can even provide any sort of valid opinion on this topic.

Best Response
Aug 31, 2016

I've often wondered what it would be like to be a handsome man. I feel feelings of both hatred and admiration for you, surferdude. I've dated some of the hottest women ever but most of the time it's been for just a few weeks, before they realize they could do a lot better than me. :/

If it makes you feel any better, the rest of us mere mortal males deal with these type-A wackos, too. I will never--and I mean never--work in a situation again where a female is my superior. Don't get me wrong--I have no problem with female chief executives a la Queen Elizabeth and Margaret Thatcher (in my opinion both in the top 25 greatest heads of state of the last 500 years...)--but when it comes to inner office workings, good Christ! Women have been the absolute worst.

My first boss out of college was a bi-polar nut job, acting like she adored me while also constantly using the threat of termination to motivate me. At my last job (before my present one) I had a younger female who was my boss--this, this was hard to take. And I took it with a smile because I really, REALLY needed the job, but she was such an incredible bitch that she was actually promoted out of the department and isolated into a newly created department by herself that she now heads (with no subordinates). My firm was so dominated by men that she was actually promoted into a newly created BS position and paid more money just so she couldn't continue destroying the department's morale while still getting credit for having a female manager. At my present job about 14 months ago I had a meeting scheduled with this chick and she just didn't show up until 45 minutes later. I was like, "Dude, what's the deal? I've been waiting here for 45 minutes. Forget it now--I have things to do." She literally cried to the boss, which I didn't find out about until 6 months later (my boss didn't give a sh*t about her tears--he rocks). Finally, we hired this woman (early 50s) and we only kept her for 8 1/2 months. After 8 1/2 months she had sufficiently destroyed morale at the office and we had to let her go before she completely annihilated our office's reputation.

Women have a place in the workforce--it's called secretary. [For the benefits of the SJWs, this last sentence is a joke, but I'm not deleting it]

Aug 30, 2016

this sexist diatribe got 6 upvotes. I think we're fucking doomed.

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Aug 31, 2016
BobTheBaker:

this sexist diatribe got 6 upvotes. I think we're fucking doomed.

Truth is an absolute defense to the "sexism" charge. Kind of like when I point out that you're a brain-dead idiot with absolutely no insight into any topic you've ever commented on ever, that doesn't make me a racist against blacks; that makes me correct about you.

Aug 31, 2016

What you're forgetting is that WSO is mostly chock full of nerdy undergrads/23 year olds who are massively insecure about women. I've found the most common response to this is some version of loud misogyny/bragging about their jobs, cars, apartments, etc. I think the comment above falls in the former category.

Aug 31, 2016

Oh it would have more if I had WSO credit.

If you can't kill them with kindness, just kill them.

Aug 30, 2016

OP.. First off, where the hell do you work where every person has such a rich life outside work (fitness instructor, actress, dancer, etc) ??? :)

Secondly.. If you want to be anything other than a homeless unemployed man you just have to take it lying down - just make your peace with that now. History shows that we always over-correct and our generation is just stuck with this 'rules don't apply to women' people. Thankfully, they are a significant minority even among women.

Finally, my advice:

  1. Don't sit where you eat. In fact, I am a proponent of dating people not in one's industry. It brings a different perspective to life and reminds you that there is a bigger world out there. Besides, you will be out in the street on your a in a matter of seconds if a female coworker just so happens to wake up on the wrong side of the bed one day.
  2. If they are actually coming on to you, casually say something like this, "you remind me of my sister/mother/aunt, etc. because she also loves running (any positive reason will do)". This clashes directly with the SJW narrative , "I am the most beautiful thing on earth. Every man on this planet wants me. I can have it all. Rules don't apply to me because I am a woman.". If you have never done this before, just brace yourself for the comical expression that comes next next - mainly because they just cannot fathom the idea that not every man is interested in her. These are the women you want to avoid regardless.
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Aug 30, 2016

I work on the business side of tech in a city known for health and fitness (think Colorado).

Aug 30, 2016

Tech Sales In Boulder?

Aug 30, 2016

what's the point of this thread? a humblebrag? a question as to why there's a double standard? complaining because a double standard exists? these kinds of things happen man, happens to a lot of guys out there. just take it as a compliment. if a woman wanted to cheat with you, she'd do it.

you're mistaking hot women in sales being nice to you with hot women in sales wanting to fuck you. the way women sell is very different than men. it is flirtatious, but I guarantee if you tried to make a move, she'd shut it down real quick, it's just their style.

quit your bitching.

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Aug 30, 2016

It's a reply to GLCIB's assertion that men rule the world with an iron fist.

I'm not mistaking anything. I know when a girl wants to fuck, because I've made the mistake of hooking up in the office. Interpreting signals isn't rocket science,

Aug 30, 2016

.

WSO's COO (Chief Operating Orangutan) | My Linkedin

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Aug 30, 2016

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/equity-2016-...
I posted as a response to GLICB in this thread.

Aug 30, 2016

You were mentioned because this is a front page worthy post.

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Aug 30, 2016

As usual you spout your mouth off while having no idea what you're talking about.

Aug 30, 2016

that's fair. you've got no idea if I know what I'm talking about, and clearly I must be stupid because I thought this was a thread asking for advice at first click, only to realize it's turning into a shit throwing jamboree for insecure and short tempered. have fun getting angry at strangers on the internet, it'll do wonders for your social life.

godspeed

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Oct 26, 2016
thebrofessor:

you're mistaking hot women in sales being nice to you with hot women in sales wanting to fuck you. the way women sell is very different than men. it is flirtatious, but I guarantee if you tried to make a move, she'd shut it down real quick, it's just their style.

As a female who previously suffered from Total Bitch Syndrome (aka Borderline Personality Disorder, but that's a story for another day), I'll say this: 80% of the time, when a woman flirts with a guy, it's not because he's smoking hot. It's because she needs validation that she is hot. And, like psychology 101 tells us, most people in potential win/lose social situations tend towards positive self-preservation. That is, an 8/10 female will most likely hit on a 5/10 male to guarantee that she gets a favourable response - she likes attention, from anyone. Even better if it's multiple anyones. She doesn't necessarily plan on following through with anything serious; she just wants a couple of free drinks, compliments, and attention to validate her own self-worth. Source: my entire circle of female friends, 6 years ago. Cannot count the number of free dinners+drinks we've had and fake phone numbers we've given out.

Guys like OP are suckers who drink it up. We like that. Yes, please, take us out and show us a good time (and the inside of your wallet). Tell us how hot we look, tell the internet how hot we look. But don't expect us to actually fuck you in your office.

I don't deny they were probably flirting with you. I just don't think they were flirting with you because you are all that and a bag of dicks.

That said, on the flip side, I do agree that a certain population of females (who may overlap with the kind I describe above) are definitely "new age feminists" who like to use their gender to get special treatment. Not denying that, but favouritism goes many ways, not just for females or males or straight dudes or lesbians or minorities. Not something I have personally experienced (being an Asian female is like being not hot enough to lump into the female category but not bro enough to be lumped into the boy's club, and oh, apparently Asians aren't minorities anymore lol).

EDIT in case it wasn't clear, was addressing OP for most of this post, not @thebrofessor

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Aug 30, 2016

welcome back, been too long. hope your new adventure is going well

Aug 30, 2016

Wrong.

Aug 30, 2016

At first I thought OP was kidding....then I realized, 'twas not. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

OP killed Harambe.

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Sep 2, 2016

oh no!

How is my grammar? Drop me a note with any errors you see!

Sep 4, 2016

For the life of me, I can't understand this whole Harambe thing. Care to enlighten me?

Aug 30, 2016

Anyone who takes this at face value is a fool. Never happened.

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Aug 30, 2016

You're an idiot.

Aug 31, 2016

So the moral of the story is to be ugly.

Just look like you belong in a zoo; and shit like this won't even happen. Guess most of WSO is safe from these "venomous" women.

I think- therefore I fuck

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Sep 4, 2016

Lol this is great

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Aug 31, 2016

An interesting article I saw recently about this topic:

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/03/07/womens-d...

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

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Sep 1, 2016

Sent this to around 10 other bros. All of them had this same experience except w/o the violence. +1 on point.

Aug 31, 2016

My first-line manager is a male but after that, it's female all the way up in my division. I work in technology and women really look out for each other in the workplace via work group (e.g. Women in Technology) and executive mentorship opportunities. People in my sector refer to this as "The Good Ole Girls Club".

I've bitched about the feminist movement before in my workplace to co-workers when I hear the blatant gospel about how females need to band together in order to progress in the workplace but at the end of the day, I'm doing a fine job of navigating given my organization's environment. Those who are most impacted are the grey-haired, good old boys club type guys who refuse to acknowledge the reality of the situation.

Aug 31, 2016

What in the hell happened here?

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Aug 30, 2016

What do you mean?

Aug 31, 2016

The boy's club is gone.

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Sep 4, 2016

You're a prospective monkey. I advise you to wait until you join the ranks of the plutocracy to make that judgment

Aug 31, 2016

I know this feeling well

Every job I have worked since college, a woman has been in leadership. this is the first time ever that I have a male boss.

I have had to deal with so much "fluffy" stuff, it would make your head spin.

You are not alone bro

Aug 30, 2016

It's ridiculous isn't it? Females get away with so much shit that would NEVER fly if a man was in charge.

Aug 31, 2016

Man, surferdude. That's wild, bro.

You'd never guess what happened to me though.

First, The Senior Vice President (SVP) From Out of Town:

The division I worked in was recently restructured, and they brought in a bunch of higher ups including an SVP from around the country for a week long event to rally the troops. The whole team heads to the bar Thursday for happy hour, and the RVP clearly enjoys her scotch. The more she drinks, the louder she gets, and the closer she gets to me while speaking. Near the end of happy hour, she informs me that "I'm from out of town, it's your responsibility to show me a good time - we've got corporate sponsorship."

I assume she's talking about the entire group, so I agree... but a few minutes later I find out the rest of the team is going home. I tell her this, but she is adamant that I take her out.

Now for the record, this woman is a smokeshow - about 5-7 years older than me, but also an aerobics instructor and a former actress. Under normal circumstances I would rail the living daylights out of her, but obviously these aren't normal circumstances

I try to resist and hang out near the group, but she starts pulling on my arm and suit jacket! All of the guys notice this and I turn bright red. Eventually she stops and says "you're being weird" and goes on her merry way. The rest of the night (and for the next 3 months) everyone calls me Kavorka (Seinfeld reference). I actually wanted to transfer to her division, but surprise surprise, my application was rejected for reasons unknown....

if a man had been all over a younger subordinate, not only would his behaviour have been condemned, he would have been fired and quite possibly brought up on sexual harassment charges. What do you have to say about this, So @glicb27?

The Good Looking Blonde (GLB) Manager:

I meet the GLB on my first day, and there is instant sexual chemistry. She manages the business development team, and is a dancer and fitness instructor. Upon introduction, the first thing she says to me is "Wow Surferdude867, you look just like very attractive and very powerful executive XYZ" and then walks away. Who said girls were subtle? She touches my arm whenever we talk, she constantly lingers by my desk, and laughs and giggles at jokes I make that are NOT funny.

I actually think there is potential here, but when she comes on to me at the Xmas party, her boyfriend shows up!!! I don't grind up on other guy's girls, so I say goodbye and resolve to stay away from her. Things get incredibly awkward at the office, and she starts to make my life uncomfortable. I won't go into detail, but I had similar experiences with 2 other women in the office, and I start to think of ways to deal with it...

So I go to HR. @GLCIB27, what do you think happens now? Does HR listen to what I have to say, take my concerns seriously, and potentially step in to act as an intermediary? Hardly. I'm dismissed without a second thought.

In college I once got blackout drunk and woke up having sex with what may as well have been a ditch pig, and then I went in and out of consciousness for the rest of the night. I was in no condition to give consent and according to the law, that's rape, no two ways about it. Now obviously I did the honorable thing: do the walk of shame home, puke my guts out for the next 12 hours, and let all of my friends know so they could make fun of me for the next 2 weeks. However, if I had gone to campus police, I would have been laughed out of their office.

How is it appropriate for a female colleague to come onto me at the company Christmas party? What if the situation has been reversed? I would be tried, convicted, and executed in the court of public opinion at the speed of social media

You're a girl, you get to invent new words like "mansplaining," which are undeniably sexist, and society supports you. I see girls manipulate there way out of situations all the time, is it OK if I call it Womanipulation?

I left my most recent job because they promoted two women who were not even REMOTELY qualified into VP positions over two men who had earned their stripes. Why did the company promote them? "We want more women in leadership!" Why? "Because diversity!" The department turned to complete shit almost overnight.

Honestly, I used to believe that "men dominated the finance industry" as you so eloquently put it because of sexist reasons. Now I think men dominate all industries because they are willing to put aside petty personal bullshit for the greater good, while women can't/won't. Girls seem to think that their personal feelings are the most important thing in the world, and that their feelings should be everyone's primary concern (cue Louis CK Rape Joke Clip - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc7zzkX0xs4).
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: these third wave feminists are either absolutely brilliant or absolutely braindead. Their new "movement" is either a brilliant ploy to obtain more power with less responsibility, or a bunch of morons shouting nonsense at one another.

Nullus.

Crazy, right?

Aug 30, 2016

Y'all crack me up! How about just live and let live? :)
There will be jerks. Get over it!! :)

Sep 4, 2016
MBA_Junkie:

Y'all crack me up! How about just live and let live? :)There will be jerks. Get over it!! :)

I'm with this guy!

Sep 1, 2016

Never had such problems cuz i'm ugly af (with a bit of sarcasm). If they flirt with you the best response I guess would be just to stay chill until they literally grab your crotch, then you know what to do.

I'm currently leaving my job at a mutual fund because I don't want to deal with this woman bs, I got a pile of crap dropped on me because I did not add the word "Samsung" to an Excel document, lol. Since I know that from that point it will only get worst I just decided to bail. I didn't complain, I didn't tell anyone. Took me 4 days to get a broker position in a local bank, front desk, 4 people, all men. No more drama for me.

You killed the Greece spread goes up, spread goes down, from Wall Street they all play like a freak, Goldman Sachs 'o beat.

Sep 1, 2016

I've worked for and with women without any more problems than male counterparts. I've noticed the women were more detail oriented, which probably stems from a bit of nature and a bit of people like you scrutinizing every comma of their work product looking for a mistake to justify the view that they're unqualified.

Maybe they pick up on your obvious misogyny and maybe you're in your own way by only seeing what amounts to confirmation bias. You obviously are not an intelligent individual, so I would recommend assuming the problem is with you and see where that train of thought guides you.

Sep 1, 2016

Can't believe it took this long into the thread for someone to introduce this idea. I find it interesting that even though we all know that confirmation bias exists, it still gets the better of us all the time. Of course, I was not with the OP, and thus have no clue what circumstances he has gone through, but a lot of what I've read in this thread as a little ridiculous.

Sep 4, 2016

Extremely well put @ArcherVice couldn't agree more. I've had more drama in my personal life with women than men, but that's 100% because you're more likely to have issues with a woman you're sleeping with than you are with your bros.

On a separate note, I'm a sucker for heuristics references so SB for you

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Sep 5, 2016
ArcherVice:

I've worked for and with women without any more problems than male counterparts. I've noticed the women were more detail oriented, which probably stems from a bit of nature and a bit of people like you scrutinizing every comma of their work product looking for a mistake to justify the view that they're unqualified.

Maybe they pick up on your obvious misogyny and maybe you're in your own way by only seeing what amounts to confirmation bias. You obviously are not an intelligent individual, so I would recommend assuming the problem is with you and see where that train of thought guides you.

This is pretty much...a great rebuttal to the OP's thread.

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Aug 30, 2016

Nah the problem is you're stupid.

Sep 1, 2016

That escalated quickly

Sep 4, 2016

When feminists and SJW's become master hackers.... a lot of you guys will be in for a lot of pain lol

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.

Sep 5, 2016

Did Andy really just delete one of v4ever's posts, along with his own response that got him monkey shits? I'm out of here. If the mods can't let the users of WSO to have an openly candid discussion about important topics in the workplace backed by experience, then I will have nothing to do with it. If a female brought up this topic against her male counterparts the SJW mods (Andy) would gleefully participate in the discussion and actively encourage it. No one should silence another based on their opinion. If you don't agree with it, then fine, just say so. But to censor the content of its users, websites tend to go to shit very fast. Goodbye and good luck.

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Sep 6, 2016

Damn that shit is suspect...didnt really expect mods to be deleting posts cause it doesn't generate the response they want...smh

Sep 6, 2016

That kind of gave away which firm you work for. One of my classmates interned for two women who sound exactly like the VP's you described.....and they were so bad he ran screaming away from IB.