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Wall Street Oasis » Blogs » Edmundo Braverman's blog
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Better to Have Been Rich and Lost It, or Never Been Rich at All?
 

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Edmundo Braverman's picture
Edmundo Braverman
      ST
 
 
(Human, 14,409
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 7:30am
empty-pockets.jpg

mod (Andy) note: "Blast from the past - Best of Eddie" - This one is originally from November 2010. If there's an old post from Eddie you'd like to see up again shoot me a message.

When I was in my teens and early 20's, all I could think about was being rich. I didn't care what I had to do to make the money, I just knew that I wanted to be rich. Not just wealthy, either. I wanted the private jets, the boats, the mansions, the proverbial "fuck you" money. What I didn't spend any time thinking about was what would happen if I made that kind of money and then lost it.

I was reminded of this when I read the story of the Martin family of Paso Robles, California. This is the story of a husband and wife with three kids who made $10 million after taxes from the sale of his father's company in 1998. Today all the money is gone, along with their sprawling estate, his Aston Martin, and her horses - one of which cost $173,000. He went from jet-setting and dinners at the "21" club to teaching at a community college in Kansas in just over 10 years. And it got me thinking about which was worse: to be rich and lose everything, or to have never been rich and not know what you're missing?

I never ended up making "fuck you" money, but I did pretty well for myself early on. For a lower middle-class mailman's kid, I threw up some pretty respectable numbers and quickly got used to the good life. When money is an issue for you your whole life and then suddenly it isn't really, you can either react responsibly and act like you've been in the end zone before, or you can act like a jackass and get flagged for excessive celebration in the Super Bowl of life.

You can probably guess which route I took. I'm still pulling the occasional yellow flag out of my ass from those days.

The money only amplified an already pretty ugly aspect of my personality and, through a series of self-destructive decisions and actions, I lost everything and basically had to spend a year of my life on the run in Mexico and the Far East. The details are unimportant at this point, but what is important is how brutal it was to have had a little dough and then lost it.

The fortunate thing for me was that this happened early in life, and I was able to recover from it. Not only was I able to bounce back, I made even more money the next time. And then I lost that, too. As long as you keep learning from your mistakes, making the money back gets easier each time.

But I'm forced to wonder what life would have been like if I had taken my dad's advice and become a vehicle maintenance officer for the Post Office. Would pulling down $40,000 a year (or whatever they make, I have no idea), loading up the station wagon for a vacation to Disneyland once a year, and living in a 1,300 sq ft 3-bedroom place in the burbs have been preferable to the wealth roller coaster I've ridden for most of my adult life?

I think not. We only go through life once, and I think experiences are the only real currency in this existence. Trying to keep things stable and steady kinda defeats the purpose in my view. Being rich teaches you that money can't buy everything (and that's a lesson you have to learn for yourself to ever really believe it) and being poor teaches you to be resourceful in ways only those who've been there can appreciate. There is great value in both experiences, but I'll grant you that being rich is better than being poor.

What do you think? What do you suppose the Martins think? It has to be especially difficult for their kids to have had everything and then lost it and have to move to where the "poor" people live.

Is it better to have been rich and lost it, or to have never been rich at all?

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Tags:
  • story
  • Rich
  • Money
  • lost
  • aston martin

Comments

tireds's picture

Better to never have been

tireds
     
 
(Monkey, 34
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 6:56am

Better to never have been rich at all. Not even a close decision. On the human utility curves losses always hurt significantly more than gains. Also there's one thing desiring a life you never had. Remembering a life you had and lost is so much worse.

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Midas Mulligan Magoo's picture

We're on the same wavelength

Midas Mulligan Magoo
     
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,167
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 7:04am

We're on the same wavelength bro, this is exactly what I was going to write about today. SB4U.

Instead of saying what's better and what's worse, I will say that it's great that Mr. Martin went and got himself a job, no welfare, no unemployment bennies, no crying to the local news...this is life, very often we do what we can, not what we want. I know the popular saying goes the other way, but this story is a great reminder of how it is when you leave fantasy land. Word to the wise...

Where I unload on Twits and take verbal S***s

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Bisu's picture

As of right now, have to

Bisu
      IB
 
(Senior Chimp, 26
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 7:34am

As of right now, have to agree with tireds.

I'm only a college kid right now (like a lot of this board), so I've never really experienced anything remotely related to the good life, being from a very middle class background.

I can definitely see it as remembering some great moments in the past, but for some weird reason, it just seems as though when it comes to money, it just seems strange to remember it like it was something great.

I think part of the fun of not being rich is how everything seems more extravagant when you do decide to drop a little coin for it.

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No one ever found happiness

eyelikecheese (not verified)
     
 
(Chimp, 0
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:07am

No one ever found happiness through money. Wealth is not measured by the amount of things one can afford, but the amount of things one can afford to give up. Why live a life in pursuit of monetary gains and material possessions, for that is the life that literally billions of people have lived previously. People do no dare to be different, to take the road less travelled, and will one day realize that they gave up the best years of their life, years they will never get back, in pursuit of something they cannot even show for. A life of wealth is truly meaningless and leaves one still hungry and thirsty. Those that pursue nothing but money, will slowly become morally corrupt, and lose any sense of independence and original thought. They are so busy with keeping up with the Jonses to buy an entry level BMW or take 3-5 vacations a year, that they are slaves to work because they have to support their mortgage, car payments, extravagent lifestyle. People are too busy adapting to the person society has made the to be, than living to be the person they were born to be.

Henry David Thoreau said it best " Luxury items are not only not indespensisble, but a positive hindrance to the elevation of mankind"

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HerSerendipity's picture

Great post, Eddie! It almost

HerSerendipity
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,034
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:11am

Great post, Eddie! It almost reads like a male Carrie Bradshaw (because clearly, that's what you were going for...). I especially like your posts relating to personal life experiences.

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SLO89's picture

This is one of the best and

SLO89
      ST
 
(Senior Monkey, 67
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:40am

This is one of the best and most thought provoking posts I have read to date on this site.... bravo.

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Ben Shalom Bernanke's picture

tireds wrote: Better to never

Ben Shalom Bernanke
      AM
 
 
(King Kong, 1,425
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:40am
tireds:

Better to never have been rich at all. Not even a close decision. On the human utility curves losses always hurt significantly more than gains. Also there's one thing desiring a life you never had. Remembering a life you had and lost is so much worse.

Agreed. Once you get used to that lifestyle, to go back is not the same.

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tyrets's picture

My two cents says it's better

tyrets
      ST
 
(Senior Baboon, 190
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:43am

My two cents says it's better to be rich and lose it. The reason being, if you actually earned the money, instead of inheriting it, you know how to make it back. Not that I'm some super rich asshole, but I earned everything I had and if it went away this afternoon I would be pissed to no end, but I would just clamp down and make it back. It's kind of our M.O. in the finance world. We know a lot of this shit is paper sometimes and not wealth and if disaster strikes we double down our efforts and make it back. And often times, more than we lost.

I know plenty of people that got fucked hard in the "credit crisis" and lost proportionally as much as the average Joes. The difference b/w their losses? My friends said "fuck this" and worked to make it back. We eat what we kill and go get what we want versus sitting back and being reactionary.

That's my rant for the day.

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CharmWithSubstance's picture

Great post! Better to have

CharmWithSubstance
      VC
 
(Senior Baboon, 225
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:44am

Great post!

Better to have been rich and lost it. I think the more you see and the more exposed you are to various things you life, the better off. To go from poor to rich lets you experience new places, new social circles, etc that you may never otherwise. One could argue these events could do more harm than good but for me the worst is when you never had an opportunity.

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George87's picture

Thanks for the post Eddie.

George87
      IB
 
 
(Senior Baboon, 243
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:50am

Thanks for the post Eddie. Really makes you think and maybe put things in perspective. I would have to say that having had money and lost it all is worse. The reason being that once you get accustomed to the so-called "good life" making significant life changes once you lose that wealth it will have an impact on a day-in day-out basis: what food you buy, where you go out to eat, where you travel for vacations, whether or not you can afford to take vacations, what presents you buy for yourself or loved ones, what car you drive, where you live etc. You get the idea.

I also think that chasing money is not the best option, although I am guilty of doing it myself. It seems as if in the beginning of one's career, the more you chase it the more it seeps through your fingers, at some point I would hope that it will accumulate at a faster rate than I can spend it. It's hard not to get caught up with buying everything that everyone else owns or wants to own, but as long as you stay as true to yourself as you possibly can, I believe that you can make money and live a decent enough life to actually enjoy it.

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They say slavery was done

eyelikecheese (not verified)
     
 
(Chimp, 0
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 8:57am

They say slavery was done away with in the year 1863. I say it paved the way for slavery to become instutionalized. Whether you choose to believe it or not, everyone who "has" to work is a slave, and will never be able to enjoy what the world has to offer.

Haven't you guys ever asked why?

Why do I wake up each day to slave over a job that I hate. Is the purpose of every finite day you live on the planet just to make more money than the previous?

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CompBanker's picture

I'm up in the air on this

CompBanker
      PE
 
 
(Almost Human, 8,508
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 9:08am

I'm up in the air on this one. I was fortunate enough to be born into a pretty wealthy family (7 figure annual income), so I've always had everything I've ever needed -- minus a trust fund. As a result, I've never really "desired" excessive money. I obviously make a boatload now given my finance job, but every year I simply bank my bonus and the money chills in the stock market.
Meanwhile, my "newly wealthy" peers have really let the money go to their head. They weren't always this way, the money changed them. They measure their self worth by their paycheck and are sometimes unwilling to interact with the common folk. It's really quite depressing to watch. If they were to lose it all, they would not fair so well.
Conclusion: A lot of it depends on the individual. Some people are morphed by money and are destined to live a less fulfilling life if they were to lose it.

CompBanker

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rfxm3's picture

Even though I am still in

rfxm3
      IB
 
(Senior Monkey, 72
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 9:44am

Even though I am still in University I have had a fairly interesting ride so far and feel I can comment on this.

I was brought up in a moderately wealthy family but was never really given a lot of cash to 'play' with. School fees were paid for but if I wanted a new TV, Playstation and so on it was either christmas or birthday. As such I started a few small businesses over the years, it always meant I had more cash than most of my peers, but not significantly more.

However, during my second year of university at 20 years old I struck gold with a manufacturing business I decided to start-up ($3000 loan from my dad @ 10%) and within about 8 months I was personally making over $20,000 per week - $1m USD per year.

As such I was catapaulted into wealth very rapidly, I rented the nicest apartment in town, bought a new M3, ate out every meal and all that crap - even had nights out which cost over $1000 in a place where drinks in a club are $2-3 and a year ago I would have spent maybe $20. It was a hell of an experience.

However, that stuff all now seems normal and I don't really do it anymore as it is no longer exciting and new - and wasting money gets pretty boring pretty fucking quick! When you attain something it is not better, it becomes the norm, and what you had before just seems worse.

The business itself was extremely volatile & very high-stress work but it was fucking exciting and the money was awesome. However, given that I could get by on $15k a year very comfortably the money soon lost meaning, instead the numbers became personal targets that I would work against and attempt to beat. If pushed I would probably say the ups-and-downs of making the money far outweighed the actual 'having' it or even spending it.

I guess what I learnt from it all, as I am just now closing the business as it is no longer viable, is that no matter how much cash you have it will always just seem the norm, and more will always be better, just as less is always worse. When you get it it is initially fun, when you lose it it is intially shit. Soon enough though that new level becomes the norm.

For me i'd sure as hell prefer that mega-exciting roller coaster ride through life, so for me having it and losing it will always beat that flat risk free curve of never having it at all.

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SAC's picture

I agree with Tireds. Once

SAC
      HF
 
(King Kong, 1,171
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 9:55am

I agree with Tireds. Once you're used to that lifestyle, its hard to go back to slumming it with the common folk. I've never been the type to spend excessively on cars, apartments, clothes etc, but I don't want to have to penny-pinch when it comes to other stuff either (eating out, partying, traveling) i.e. stuff you can only enjoy when you're in your 20's.

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monkeysama's picture

You only live once. I would

monkeysama
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,622
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 10:21am

You only live once. I would be rich and lose it all, even if it would be truly painful, because I would have tasted more of the spectrum of human experience.

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monkeysama's picture

Then again, the best way to

monkeysama
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,622
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 10:22am
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GoodBread's picture

Gotta side with you Edmundo.

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,604
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 10:25am

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down on the upside's picture

gotta side with Edmundo on

down on the upside
      CD
 
 
(Baboon, 143
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 10:51am
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down on the upside's picture

eyelikecheese wrote: They say

down on the upside
      CD
 
 
(Baboon, 143
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 10:54am
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GoodBread's picture

eyelikecheese, you know

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,604
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:04am

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Haha. I don't mean slavery as

eyelikecheese (not verified)
     
 
(Chimp, 0
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:17am
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LIBOR's picture

eyelikecheese wrote: Haha. I

LIBOR
      EN
 
(Neanderthal, 2,156
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:29am

looking for that pick-me-up to power through an all-nighter?

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

Ben Shalom Bernanke

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:32am

Work hard, play hard.

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GoodBread's picture

IlliniProgrammer

GoodBread
      AM
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,604
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:37am

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econ's picture

rfxm3 wrote: I guess what I

econ
      O
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,416
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:41am

For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.

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Dingleberry's picture

Id easily chose to have the

Dingleberry
      O
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:40am

...

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

@GoodBread Yes, but I'm

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:48am

Work hard, play hard.

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kingtut's picture

Look at Donald Trump. He's

kingtut
      AM
 
 
(Gorilla, 587
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:50am
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IlliniProgrammer's picture

econ wrote: The hedonic

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 11:59am

Work hard, play hard.

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happypantsmcgee's picture

We should subpoena MC Hammer

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 12:08pm

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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FinanceTherapist.'s picture

It's much better to have not

FinanceTherapist.
      O
 
(Monkey, 48
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 12:27pm
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I've been reading a few books

eyelikecheese (not verified)
     
 
(Chimp, 0
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 12:46pm
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down on the upside's picture

kingtut wrote: Look at Donald

down on the upside
      CD
 
 
(Baboon, 143
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 1:00pm
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Ben Shalom Bernanke's picture

IlliniProgrammer wrote: Ben

Ben Shalom Bernanke
      AM
 
 
(King Kong, 1,425
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 1:31pm
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GutShot's picture

I'd rather be a has been,

GutShot
      ST
 
 
(King Kong, 1,249
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 1:43pm
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zoov's picture

Being rich is definitely

zoov
     
 
(Senior Baboon, 218
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 2:45pm
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tireds's picture

on the being able to make

tireds
     
 
(Monkey, 34
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 3:06pm
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happypantsmcgee's picture

tireds wrote: on the being

happypantsmcgee
      O
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,621
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 3:20pm

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

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Edmundo Braverman's picture

tireds wrote: on the being

Edmundo Braverman
      ST
 
 
(Human, 14,409
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 3:48pm

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MJP338's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?

MJP338
      ST
 
(Orangutan, 254
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 4:02pm
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tireds's picture

Edmundo Braverman

tireds
     
 
(Monkey, 34
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 4:34pm
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In The Flesh's picture

I know this sounds like a

In The Flesh
      HF
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,814
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 6:56pm

Head of Metal Website: www.headofmetal.com

https://twitter.com/headofmetal2012

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There are truly two worlds in

eyelikecheese (not verified)
     
 
(Chimp, 0
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 7:06pm
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D M's picture

My family's always been

D M
      O
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 4,824
 
Points)
 on 11/30/10 at 10:59pm

"WSO is like the 300 for anti spamage. None shall pass." -happypantsmcgee
"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer

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cphbravo96's picture

Any can be poor and/or

cphbravo96
      PE
 
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,006
 
Points)
 on 12/1/10 at 11:36pm

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

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TomNext's picture

great post, good friday

TomNext
      ST
 
(Senior Monkey, 90
 
Points)
 on 12/3/10 at 1:02pm
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khara 3alekon's picture

This post actually touches on

khara 3alekon
      CO
 
(Senior Baboon, 243
 
Points)
 on 12/14/10 at 5:19pm

Strategy Everything.

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WMR's picture

It's better to have been rich

WMR
      VC
 
(Senior Monkey, 70
 
Points)
 on 12/14/10 at 6:14pm

http://worldfinancialmarkets.yolasite.com

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notamonkey's picture

This is why popularizing

notamonkey
      HF
 
(Senior Baboon, 216
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 9:36am

All I care about in life is accumulating bananas

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West Coast rainmaker's picture

I was born into a really poor

West Coast rainmaker
      ER
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,092
 
Points)
 on 12/1/12 at 10:27am
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You should not violate any other law or regulation, including, without limitation, the rules and regulations of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and the national or other securities exchanges, especially including the rule against making false or misleading statements to manipulate the price of a security or the rule requiring you to disclose any compensation you may receive for describing a security.

You should not access WallStreetOasis.com by any means other than through the interfaces we provide for use in accessing our services or use any automated means, including, without limitation, agents, robots, scripts, or spiders, to access, monitor, copy, or harvest data from any part of our sites, except those automated means that we have approved in advance and in writing.

The Company, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to remove any postings, or deny access by any individuals, for any reason or no reason.

If you see something that you feel is a violation of the these Terms and Conditions, please notify us by emailing wallstreetoasis at wallstreetoasis.com.

We reserve the right to change the Terms and Conditions at any time. Changes will be posted on the applicable web page.

Use of Material.

The Company authorizes you to view and download a single copy of the material on www.WallStreetOasis.com (the "Web Site") solely for your personal, noncommercial use. By using the Web Site you are giving the Company the sole right to use any and all content you generate or publish on the site for commercial, non-commercial or promotional purposes. This includes any and all forum posts, comments, blog posts or any other material you generate on the Web Site.

The contents of this Web Site, such as text, graphics, images, logos, button icons, software and other items (collectively, "Material"), are protected under both United States and foreign copyright, trademark and other laws. All Material is the property of the Company or its content suppliers or clients. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement and assembly) of all content on this Web Site is the exclusive property of the Company and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of the Material may violate copyright, trademark, and other laws. You must retain all copyright, trademark, service-mark and other proprietary notices contained in the original Material on any copy you make of the Material. You may not sell or modify the Material or reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute, or otherwise use the Material in any way for any public or commercial purpose. The use of the Material on any other web site or in a networked computer environment for any purpose is prohibited.

You shall not copy or adapt the HTML code that the Company creates to generate its pages. It is also protected by the Company?s copyright.

Acceptable Site Use.

General Rules: Users may not use the Web Site in order to transmit, distribute, store or destroy material (a) in violation of any applicable law or regulation, (b) in a manner that will infringe the copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of others or violate the privacy, publicity or other personal rights of others, or (c) that is defamatory, obscene, threatening, abusive or hateful.

Web Site Security Rules. Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Web Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization, (c) attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Web Site, overloading, "flooding", "spamming", "mailbombing" or "crashing", (d) sending unsolicited e-mail, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services, or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any e-mail. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. The Company will investigate occurrences which may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations.

Specific Prohibited Uses.

The Company specifically prohibits any use of the Web Site, and all users agree not to use the Web Site, for any of the following:

  • Posting any incomplete, false or inaccurate biographical information or information which is not your own accurate resume
  • Using any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of this Web Site or any activity being conducted on this site.
  • Taking any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on this Web Site?s infrastructure.
  • If you have a password allowing access to a non-public area of this Web Site, disclosing to or sharing your password with any third parties or using your password for any unauthorized purpose.
  • Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, using or attempting to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search this Web Site other than the search engine and search agents available from the Company on this Web Site and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer).
  • Attempting to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software comprising or in any way making up a part of the Web Site.
  • Aggregating, copying or duplicating in any manner any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.
  • Framing of or linking to any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.

User Information.

When you register for the Web Site, you will be asked to provide the Company with certain information including, without limitation, a valid email address (your "Information"). In addition to the terms and conditions that may be set forth in any privacy policy on this Web Site, you understand and agree that the Company may disclose to third parties, on an anonymous basis, certain aggregate information contained in your registration application. The Company reserves the right to offer third party services and products to you based on the preferences that you identify in your registration and at any time thereafter; such offers may be made by the Company or by third parties. Please see the Company's Privacy Policy below for further details regarding your Information.

Registration and Password.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your information and password. You shall be responsible for all uses of your registration, whether or not authorized by you. You agree to immediately notify the Company of any unauthorized use of your registration or password.

The Company's Liability.

As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Forum Topics

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  • Macquarie, after cutting bonuses for many of the analysts has now cut Seamless allowance. Crossed the line, guys. “Macquarie is making further cuts to analysts. Weekend Seamless is now $25/day, cut from $40. All analysts are trying to leave. Morale is extremely...
    Bonus cuts are one thing, but now Seamless cuts?
  • Was curious if anyone has any idea what National Sales group does at BB PWM. Obviously it involves sales, but how do BB National sales groups stand out from different more regional teams within the BB PWM groups. Anyone have any experience with these types of...
    Group placement
  • I am curious about which one is better. I'm a first generation for college and I can't decide whether I should go to a target like Ross and end up with a 3.2 GPA or go to an easier college like OSU and get a 3.8/4.0 GPA. My goal isn't necessarily to get an IBD position straight out...
    Non-target with 3.8/4.0 GPA vs target with 3.2 GPA
  • Hi, this is my first post. I am looking for a new suit and after doing some research on styleforum.net, it seems that SuitSupply is my best bet. I really like the Washington fit they offered for its high rise and slim cut pant. However, since there aren't that many options, I am wondering...
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  • It is called "Brocair Partners" and it is in Midtown NYC... They cover the Healthcare sector and have deal size ranging from 30 - 250 Million. So they seem pretty good in regards to size, and have decent deal flow as well. Also have a lot of international exposure and overseas deals, so...
    Has anyone heard of this Boutique?
  • I'm working at a smaller MM investment bank in a relatively smaller city (not NY, Chicago, LA, SF, and the like). About 6 weeks ago, I received an email saying that I had an offer to intern at the bank as a summer ibanking analyst, and the MD just wanted me to respond back stating that I would...
    Background check
  • I thought I would help out the WSO RE community a little bit. If your in RE then you know who Hines is. Anyways they have a position open for their Irvine, CA office. I don't work for Hines, but I dealt with them before. You guys can go ahead and apply online, don't send me a resume. Just...
    Hines Analyst Position Is Open, Apply Here
  • Recently the site hasn't been properly displaying quotes within quotes when there are about 3 levels or more. Here is an...
    Quoting Bug
  • My original plan was to write a series about starting my eccomerce business; going through the process of finding a market, a product and funding. I still plan to do this, but I would like to talk about something that is far more pressing to me: IP...
    Entrepreneurship and patent lawsuits
  • Alright let's break up the finance monotony for a bit. I'm looking for opinions regarding the best MBA programs for someone hoping to go into marketing management and strategy (basically, looking for anything that will put me on a good path to a CMO/VPMarketing position down the...
    Best MBA programs for Marketing/Strategy
  • I propose we change the name of this forum because I do not think consulting is "consulting" in its traditional sense especially not in the industry that I have experienced in the last 4...
    My Journey Into Consulting: "Be Careful What You Ask For"
  • As a freshman in NYU CAS and a prospective Econ/Math double major (not joint major), I sent an application to LSE for their Econ program, to which I got accepted. I would hopefully like to get an internship in Consulting or IB within the next two years. Do you think going to LSE would make a...
    NYU CAS or LSE for Econ B.A.?
  • Hi, Does anyone have any tips on best way to Linkedin network into a Consulting role without upsetting the current boss? My background is CIMA qualified industry professional. Not sure of the best way to strategise the networking and attract attention from the hiring managers of big 4 consulting...
    Advice re Strategic/Effecient Linkedin neworking - London based
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I was writing an email to a fellow monkey who is about to start as a banking analyst in the summer. It's been a little over 5 yrs now since I was a wee young first-year analyst in restructuring for one of the Moelis/Houlihan/Evercore type firms (I call them the firms where most people will...
15 things I wish I knew as a first year banking analyst
I get a ton of emails and answer a ton of posts asking similar questions so I thought I would answer the most common ones I get here and allow others to post their questions so everyone can see them and the subsequent answers. Hope this helps. <strong>Summer Analyst...
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I work as a currency volatility trader and manage one of the bigger G10 blocs in London. I've been lucky enough to get responsibility early in my career. I started off managing a single currency book a few months into the job, and have steadily been granted more responsibility to where I am...
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I'm currently a Private Equity Analyst in Shanghai, China. Academically, I graduated from a target school majoring in Economics and Chinese. I also spent my time at college as the president of an on-campus student organization related to Finance and Economics and a volunteer for a local...
Ask me anything… I'm a Private Equity Analyst in Shanghai
<em>Mod note: Best of Bankerella - this was originally posted 10/1/12</em> I occasionally get PMed by people at colleges I’ve never heard of before, asking if they have a shot at IBD. Folks, why IBD? The finance world is broad and varied, and there are a million ways to...
My Biggest Career Mistake to Date: Prestige
For better or for worse, there’s a very unique feeling when everything goes completely according to plan yet nobody seems to care or notice. Such is the case with our favorite company of the moment, Tesla Motors. For those unaware, TSLA has rocketed upwards since its Q1 earnings release,...
A Perfect Storm
I work as a long/short equity analyst at a large hedge fund. I've been lucky enough to be more than just a model monkey early on in my career, but have also been exposed to the stress of being measured on returns. I primarily cover consumer and TMT names. I went the typical path (target...
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Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a...
WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
This is just fantastic. After sitting through Carl Levin and John McCain spewing a bunch of nonsense about how Apple doesn't pay enough taxes (despite being the #3 taxpaying company in America behind ExxonMobil and Chevron), Rand Paul lit them up about what a travesty it was to blame Apple...
Rand Paul GOES OFF at Apple Hearing
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