Is I-Banking really worth it?

*answer, my bad

Another question, how much do the most of you make?

1st years can make over $100k
2ns years: $150k
3rd years: $200k

give or take $30-50k

is it worth it? depends how far in debt you are and if you don't mind suffering for a few years to help your career. if you plan on doing something completely unrealted i wouldn't recommend it. the $ alone are not enough.

Not trying to be a dick, but if your only in high school you have way more things to think about than banking. I hadn't even heard of banking until 3rd year of college. Go out and have fun and your career choices will fall into place, no need to think about such stuff at your age.

Yep, high school's a bit early to think of banking. What is essential is to get a really strong GPA, but if you have this, than you still have planty of time to decide on a career. I-banking is not worth it for the money you make, 'cause you sacrifice too much. You need to enjoy the business, be excited about deal, to really make it worth the pain. After a few years you actually get your return on investment.

how many hours can you expect to work your first year?

depending on the group/bank/region.

Dont think about banking yet..go party hard and worry about it later...just dont mess up ur grades or you'll never get a shot

i'd say 80-90 on average. a lot depends on your group. everyone in banking likes to think/say they work 100+ hrs a week but its really only a smaller percentage (say a third) that work that amount (or more) even at bulge brackets. regions do play a role (certainly you'll work somewhat less in paris vs. hong kong; you'll die at ubs la) but it's mostly driven by your group culture

what's a typical base salary in NYC?

I'd say 75-85 is a fairly average, but there are some groups that work more and some that work less. The 100+ weeks definitely happen, but not on a regular basis.

I work in banking in NZ, and it's definitely more relaxed down here. But I've been to Hong Kong where 100 hours seemed almost normal.

to the person who said you'll die at UBS LA, is that a particularly bad place to work?

he was referring to how people in hong kong like to add the sound "la" to the end of their sentences.

It depends if you can beat the system, try to get an analyst to work under you after your first year as well.

Do you know what the hours are like at other asian countries (Japan, India, China)how about Australia?

How about product groups like DCM ECM etc? Are the hours just as bad?

My experience with DCM & ECM is that they don't work nearly as much. I can't speak for other firms, but these groups at my firm basically serve to make certain slides for pitchbooks and operate at their own pace -- so they'll leave whenever they want whether they've gotten to your stuff or not...

yes UBS LA

yes i'm interested in australia too...

I am currently working with KPMG Corporate Finance, previously been associated with an investment banking group called BMA Capital, one of the biggest local investment banks. Hours depend on the amount of assignments you are working on, at BMA I used to norm a 90 hour week, here its slightly less ... if anyone knows, tell me about UK, how are the hours there?

The analyst stint is suppose to be challenging and grueling. After the difficult two year period many leave and are "weeded out." The ones that stay are truly interested in a career in IB and are willing to sacrifice their time to work in their chosen field. Not only that, but just think of all of the jobs available to a second or third year analyst! It is like your own investment in the job market and it could really pay off.

I think the ones that stay are either extremely risk-averse or lack options.

I know that hours may be relaxed, but is pay near the same as US investment banking?

Also, relative to cost of living, how does it compare?

1st yr associates are now at 95k base, 30k signing, and 50k stub year bonus.

Why would this be this less than half the 120k expected for 3rd year analyst?

Similar pay. Some banks pay using rolling average AUD / USD FX. Banks that aren't fixed to USD sometimes pay more and sometimes less than the US, depending on where the AUD / USD crossrate is at.

Hours not much better... living costs less.

When the fx rate was A$/US$0.55 guys here were cleaning up. This has turned around though as the fx rate picked up... Only hurts though if you are thinking in A$

I am a summer analyst at a large bulge bracket bank and so far the main lesson that I have learned is to not let this business get under your skin. Do your work, get out and when you go home don't think about work and all the shit that pisses you off. I feel with this mindset you won't go crazy

you are absolutely right .. however, whilst in the analyst slot, it get difficult to do so .. generally hours are such that you dont really get the time to switch off coz by the time you get back home, you just sleep, wake up and head back in .. weekends are yours though, and you can just relax, chill out and stay sane ;)

I was under the impression that analysts usually worked a full day saturday and a few hours at least sunday. is this true?

Yes analysts at top banks generally work weekends

I'm a sophomore in college- when should I start looking at making connections in the IB world?

and love it

Australia might be slightly laid back but banking is banking. It's a matter of 110 vs 95 hours. At the lower rack you are essentially everybody's tool. Goldman Sachs works hard everywhere whether it's NYC, HK or Sydney.

And yes Australia pays alot less than London and NYC. HK is a different story, they have a crap load of deals from all over Asia. China is a great booming market (I have a friend interning at ML HK and another at GS HK). Oh you don't have to be Asian and know an Asian language. Knowing Mandarin, Japanese, or Korea certainly wouldn't hurt though.

Hey Back That Asset Up. For your friends interning at ML HK and GS HK, how did they get the job if you don't mind me asking. Did they already work at ML NYC and transfer? Or did they just apply through the site or through school? if school [ie career services] what school do they go to and how are their GPAs? I ask this because i'm really interested in landing an IBanking gig in HK or asia but i just don't know how to go about it. any advice would be appreciated.

You really are a big pain in the ass. I hope you don't go to Ivey.

g

Im a student in london and considering investment banking as a career, but from this forum and other forums here so many people seem to hate their job...
Part of the reason why I wanted to go into it is because I always thought I would be the weird type to like the 100 hour weeks and the extreme demanding-ness of the job at analyst level. Is this a ridiculous reason, and one that Im likely to grow out of when I come back to my senses?

which is the most prestigious i bank? goldman sachs or jp morgan?

or another one, i dont know...

No one likes the 100-hour weeks in IB. There are people who love to work long hours, but they also need to hold entirely the reins on when and how they work. So they fit in well to a research environment, where they work long hours but can direct themselves under minimal or no oversight, small companies with informal structures, and self-employment. They don't fit in well to hierarchical organizations, especially not ones in "on demand" service to very demanding clients. So the people who love 100-hour weeks, while they exist, don't fit the IB profile.

IBers tend to be risk-averse; they want to be rich with a very low chance of failure, and an IBer who has the (actually quite rare) stamina to keep up with the hours is a walk-on for eventual MD-ship. (Those who fail in IB are those who overestimate their stamina and willingness, especially as they see greener pastures with slightly lower incomes.) If they had riskier appetites, they'd take "vanilla" 40-hour jobs (actuarial science, computer programming) and use the other 60 to pursue a crazy startup; the hours would be identical and it would probably be more fun. Of course, this route would have a nonzero probability of failure, but so does IB when one considers the health risks attendant to the hours.

Blackstone....most prestigious PE fund/investment bank ever.

I just got hired as an IB analyst for KeyBank in Cleveland. I wanted to ask all the NYC bankers what your opinion is on an analyst position in a middle market, midwestern bank like mine. Is it a respected position? Are we inferior to NYC analysts? Could I still go into PE or Hedge Funds? Don't hold back. Please be honest.

"Blackstone....most prestigious PE fund/investment bank ever."

First of all, what is this in response to? SEcond of all, that is wrong. Blackstone investment banking/advisory is not the "most prestigious ever." not to mention that is such a toolish remark.

I think that post was in response to a post up there that asked what the most prestigious bank was.

Although, you have to admit, Blackstone PE is probably the most prestigious PE firm out there.

I wouldn't be worrying about ibanking right now...

don't worry, enjoy life for now

probably can go to middle market PE shops, but you'll have to prove yourself

i think ibanking is worth it if you're doing if for the right reasons. if you're just doing it for the money, you're going to hate yourself. however, if you have a decent interest in it and realize that life won't be perfect during the two years, then it is well worth doing for the experience and exit options

yeah so basically i was a fixed income summer analyst for bear last summer in nyc. The hours were fine but i felt like my brain was rotting because the information was so dry. People have been asking/suggesting that i go into i-banking but i am worried the hours will eat me allive. any thoughts?

I couldn't agree with you more. I am a recent grad who turned down ibanking with no backup last year for a passion of another career. The job I ended up with was not the best, but if I had ended up with a top choice I would never look back.

So for the capable and risk adverse, your options after ibanking (even with just one year) will be great.