4/30/12

It is time...

...After 6 years Tier2sta is also leaving the industry....

Why? A lot of what Mr Ridley states is true...

  • This thing's not as lucrative as most people imagined, definitely not so now that so much of the above base comp is deferred / deferred stock
  • Banks don't know what business model actually works, they have no idea how to get their ROE back up to where it was pre-2008
  • IBD teams are too thin, at officer level it means there is not enough depth in resource / quality resource below you to do effectively the things you want to do without constantly stepping down to clean up, mop up, fix, re-do.../li>
  • The glamour isn't what it used to be, and because of the increased levels of stress generally it is less fun
  • My contacts are as good as my business card in most cases (there are exceptions but a large proportion of clients I have interacted with see me in exactly the same way they see my peers at other banks, these are not deep and meaningful relationships and they are driven by the product my bank can offer)
  • My sector knowledge is superficial (I covered the same sector throughout). I could never learn about the sector properly through IBD. The more senior I became the more frustrating this became

So I am stepping down. Been a good ride. Some fond memories. But I think now is the time to try something else.

Peace...

Comments (103)

4/30/12

Congrats on getting out of the rat race. You have any specific plans?

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4/30/12

Tough decision, thanks for sharing. Any plans for what's next?

FWIW, good luck in all you do going forward

Get busy living

4/30/12

Good luck, I'm sure you had a good run. What's next?

4/30/12

Thanks for sharing. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

4/30/12

Are you taking the IBD --> Street Musician path as well?

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

4/30/12

I guess I'll just become a farmer.

Thanks for sharing your story...even though we're all happy for you, it is quite disturbing for the up & coming guys.

4/30/12
Abdel:

Thanks for sharing your story...even though we're all happy for you, it is quite disturbing for the up & coming guys.

This...

Good luck to you as well as you move forward. Thanks for sharing.

Sometimes lies are more dependable than the truth.

4/30/12

Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

Currently: clinical psychologist (in training)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

4/30/12
chicandtoughness:

Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

5/1/12
Flake:
chicandtoughness:

Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

I had several offers before I had to take my extra semester (for medical reasons), IB being one of them; the others being consulting, corpfin, marketing, and marketing. So yes, it was by choice.

Currently: clinical psychologist (in training)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

5/1/12
chicandtoughness:
Flake:
chicandtoughness:

Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

I had several offers before I had to take my extra semester (for medical reasons), IB being one of them; the others being consulting, corpfin, marketing, and marketing. So yes, it was by choice.

You just got schooled by a chick, bro, haha

Get busy living

5/1/12
UFOinsider:
chicandtoughness:
Flake:
chicandtoughness:

Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

I had several offers before I had to take my extra semester (for medical reasons), IB being one of them; the others being consulting, corpfin, marketing, and marketing. So yes, it was by choice.

You just got schooled by a chick, bro, haha

I don't see it. It doesn't prove it was by choice. Given her unfortunate circumstances (sorry to hear that by the way), she lost all of her offers because she needed an extra semester. Subsequently she was unable to secure a FT offer. If she had those offers in her hands right now and then walked away, then yes she got me, good job. Too bad she had nothing when she "quit", bro.

Once again no disrespect to chicandtoughness. People need to stop the negativity towards banking.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

5/1/12
Flake:
UFOinsider:
chicandtoughness:
Flake:
chicandtoughness:

Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

I had several offers before I had to take my extra semester (for medical reasons), IB being one of them; the others being consulting, corpfin, marketing, and marketing. So yes, it was by choice.

You just got schooled by a chick, bro, haha

I don't see it. It doesn't prove it was by choice. Given her unfortunate circumstances (sorry to hear that by the way), she lost all of her offers because she needed an extra semester. Subsequently she was unable to secure a FT offer. If she had those offers in her hands right now and then walked away, then yes she got me, good job. Too bad she had nothing when she "quit", bro.

Once again no disrespect to chicandtoughness. People need to stop the negativity towards banking.

I was just messin' with ya and really didn't follow the whole conversation.

Get busy living

5/1/12
Flake:

I don't see it. It doesn't prove it was by choice. Given her unfortunate circumstances (sorry to hear that by the way), she lost all of her offers because she needed an extra semester. Subsequently she was unable to secure a FT offer. If she had those offers in her hands right now and then walked away, then yes she got me, good job. Too bad she had nothing when she "quit", bro.
Once again no disrespect to chicandtoughness. People need to stop the negativity towards banking.

A matter of wording, perhaps. Either way, the choice to stop pursuing IB as a career is definitely a choice I made. Not shitting on banking - different people do it for different reasons. I just decided (especially given my circumstances; you start thinking about what you value most) that I'd like to spend my 20's in a different industry.

Currently: clinical psychologist (in training)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

5/2/12
chicandtoughness:
Flake:

I don't see it. It doesn't prove it was by choice. Given her unfortunate circumstances (sorry to hear that by the way), she lost all of her offers because she needed an extra semester. Subsequently she was unable to secure a FT offer. If she had those offers in her hands right now and then walked away, then yes she got me, good job. Too bad she had nothing when she "quit", bro.
Once again no disrespect to chicandtoughness. People need to stop the negativity towards banking.

A matter of wording, perhaps. Either way, the choice to stop pursuing IB as a career is definitely a choice I made. Not shitting on banking - different people do it for different reasons. I just decided (especially given my circumstances; you start thinking about what you value most) that I'd like to spend my 20's in a different industry.

Fair enough, good luck with whatever you decide on.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

5/1/12
chicandtoughness:
Flake:
chicandtoughness:

Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

I had several offers before I had to take my extra semester (for medical reasons), IB being one of them; the others being consulting, corpfin, marketing, and marketing. So yes, it was by choice.

You chose to have medical problems?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

5/1/12
Flake:
chicandtoughness:
Flake:

Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

I had several offers before I had to take my extra semester (for medical reasons), IB being one of them; the others being consulting, corpfin, marketing, and marketing. So yes, it was by choice.

You chose to have medical problems?

Touche. I accepted my consulting offer prior to the medical issues.

Currently: clinical psychologist (in training)
Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)

4/30/12

Good luck with your future endeavours...

4/30/12

Instead of your peace out stories some advice or words of encouragement would be nice.

Best Response
4/30/12

I am thinking about getting out, too.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527023048...

If I work in finance at Exelon/ Commonwealth Edison, I'll be able to come home, flick the light switch, the lights turn on, and I can smile about what I do. If I work at Northern Trust and log in to check my bank account and see interest getting deposited from bank loans, I'll be happy. If I work at Pfizer and wake up on Saturday morning and read in the New York Times about our latest cancer drug, I'll be happy.

Money is good. Work is good. But as you hit your mid to late 20s, you begin to snap out of chasing castles in the sky and start getting the first inklings of your mortality as a few small hints of gray hair show up, as a few light wrinkles appear, and clocks begin to carry way more symbolism than a piece of furniture should. You look at the money you have in the bank, and it doesn't make you as happy as you thought it would have made you at 22.

What makes you happy? Friends. Hang gliding/golf/sailing/ things that get you out of the city with friends. Remembering the things you did in college that helped make the world a better place. The arts (sometimes). Spiritual stuff. Money is nice in that it gives you freedom and financial security, but it's not a substitute for the human experience. Kids would probably make me happy too, but they're an 18-year-commitment.

Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off; spend another two if you can spend your weekends having fun. Enjoy a glass or two; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:

Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off ... Taste it, enjoy it; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

This is perfectly stated.

Get busy living

4/30/12
UFOinsider:
IlliniProgrammer:

Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off ... Taste it, enjoy it; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

This is perfectly stated.

Agreed

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:

Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off; spend another two if you can spend your weekends having fun. Enjoy a glass or two; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

IP, this may be the best thing you've ever said.

MM IB -> TMT Corporate Development

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:

Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off; spend another two if you can spend your weekends having fun. Enjoy a glass or two; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

I feel like this should be a slogan somewhere

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:

I am thinking about getting out, too.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527023048...

If I work in finance at Exelon/ Commonwealth Edison, I'll be able to come home, flick the light switch, the lights turn on, and I can smile about what I do. If I work at Northern Trust and log in to check my bank account and see interest getting deposited from bank loans, I'll be happy. If I work at Pfizer and wake up on Saturday morning and read in the New York Times about our latest cancer drug, I'll be happy.

Money is good. Work is good. But as you hit your mid to late 20s, you begin to snap out of chasing castles in the sky and start getting the first inklings of your mortality as a few small hints of gray hair show up, as a few light wrinkles appear, and clocks begin to carry way more symbolism than a piece of furniture should. You look at the money you have in the bank, and it doesn't make you as happy as you thought it would have made you at 22.

What makes you happy? Friends. Hang gliding/golf/sailing/ things that get you out of the city with friends. Remembering the things you did in college that helped make the world a better place. The arts (sometimes). Spiritual stuff. Money is nice in that it gives you freedom and financial security, but it's not a substitute for the human experience. Kids would probably make me happy too, but they're an 18-year-commitment.

Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off; spend another two if you can spend your weekends having fun. Enjoy a glass or two; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

+1 IP

4/30/12

Instead of your peace out stories some advice or words of encouragement would be nice.

Thanks for sharing your story...even though we're all happy for you, it is quite disturbing for the up & coming guys.

Our goal here is to impart wisdom. And it would be wrong of us to encourage you to do something without giving you the whole truth.

The bottom line is that one of the things that gives you pride in your work is the fact that it creates genuine economic value.

When you get to a financial firm, you're now talking about being three or four steps away from economic productivity. You don't get as much job satisfaction. There is no "I'm making the world a better place or at least helping to keep civilization running."

If you're straight out of school, you don't notice it for two years, and for two years after that, you can handle it without it getting to you. But eventually, if you're an intelligent person who isn't a total nihilist, it will get to you. And you need to keep that in mind as you go in.

The experience WILL help you with future jobs. And it WILL give you a lot of wisdom. And you WILL save up a decent nest egg if you live somewhat frugally. But most of you are going to discover at some point that your life is too valuable to spend it chasing seven figure salaries. Especially given the fact that this is a shrinking industry, not a growing one.

If I were starting over today at 22 with an offer from a top tier new york bank, I'd still take it. But I'd plan on staying for two years, not four. And I'd plan on leaving for corporate development or corporate finance at an F500 firm where I had a 50 hour/week job afterwards. Life is too short, and your working 20s are too precious to spend more than about one quarter of them in the money chase. You need to be chasing fun, families, wisdom, spirituality, and making the world a better place. And the sooner that you realize that your material accomplishments all turn to dust in 100 years, the happier your late 20s will be.

4/30/12
IP:

If you're straight out of school, you don't notice it for two years, and for two years after that, you can handle it without it getting to you. But eventually, if you're an intelligent person who isn't a total nihilist, it will get to you. And you need to keep that in mind as you go in.

The experience WILL help you with future jobs. And it WILL give you a lot of wisdom. And you WILL save up a decent nest egg if you live somewhat frugally. But most of you are going to discover at some point that your life is too valuable to spend it chasing seven figure salaries.

Yes. Thank you, IP.

Sometimes lies are more dependable than the truth.

4/30/12

Now seems like the worst time to come in as a post-MBA associate doesn't it...

4/30/12

'fraid so barf. Though I imagine your experience pre-MBA is a lot different than my experience, and associates do get a bit more free time.

My experience is that in terms of aging, every year on the trading floor is more like two years. You see guys who look like they're 50 or 60 who graduated school twenty years ago. I am seeing a few shades of gray come in, and I'm only 27. Some days I feel like everyone on the trading floor is like Walter Donovan drinking the false grail on Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

Hopefully you haven't hit that point yet of hearing the sound of a ticking clock and getting depressed about life. Come in for two years, do a stint on Wall Street, and then get out. If you aren't married yet, WAIT. Save up a nest egg first, then get a job at a Fortune 500 firm that involves working 50 hours/week, pay cash for your home, and come home every night to a family that you love without having to worry too much about money or stressful jobs. It's not work-life balance; it's work-life tradeoff, and I think that once you have the house paid off, everyone has health and life insurance, and you can put food on the table, life needs to become the general priority.

4/30/12

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

4/30/12
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

LOL Eddie, you forgot to mention that us older-than-25-year-olds feel bad for those kids.

Financial security IS a good objective to spend a few years on. But money is NOT the purpose of life and it certainly doesn't mean success in life. If you're not religious, the world's most successful person was probably either an English playwright or a Greek philosopher who was sentenced to death. For those of us who are religious, the world's most successful mortal might have been a bedouin shepherd or a simple fisherman from the Sea of Galilee.

Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820. And we're beginning to forget the Rothschilds and the Vanderbilts. In two more generations, we will be forgetting the Rockefellers. And this starts to really hit home the second you notice the first signs of aging. Best situation, kids, is that in 100 years, you get a 200 word blurb in the back pages of some forgotten encyclopedia.

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

LOL Eddie, you forgot to mention that us older-than-25-year-olds feel bad for those kids.

Financial security IS a good objective to spend a few years on. But money is NOT the purpose of life and it certainly doesn't mean success in life. If you're not religious, the world's most successful person was probably either an English playwright or a Greek philosopher who was sentenced to death. For those of us who are religious, the world's most successful mortal might have been a bedouin shepherd or a simple fisherman from the Sea of Galilee.

Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820. And we're beginning to forget the Rothschilds and the Vanderbilts. In two more generations, we will be forgetting the Rockefellers. And this starts to really hit home the second you notice the first signs of aging. Best situation, kids, is that in 100 years, you get a 200 word blurb in the back pages of some forgotten encyclopedia.

The plan for everyone should be:

1- Make enough money to retire before 35

2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.

4/30/12
Abdel:
IlliniProgrammer:
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

LOL Eddie, you forgot to mention that us older-than-25-year-olds feel bad for those kids.

Financial security IS a good objective to spend a few years on. But money is NOT the purpose of life and it certainly doesn't mean success in life. If you're not religious, the world's most successful person was probably either an English playwright or a Greek philosopher who was sentenced to death. For those of us who are religious, the world's most successful mortal might have been a bedouin shepherd or a simple fisherman from the Sea of Galilee.

Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820. And we're beginning to forget the Rothschilds and the Vanderbilts. In two more generations, we will be forgetting the Rockefellers. And this starts to really hit home the second you notice the first signs of aging. Best situation, kids, is that in 100 years, you get a 200 word blurb in the back pages of some forgotten encyclopedia.

The plan for everyone should be:

1- Make enough money to retire before 35

2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.

Yea, because everyone wants to do research in a STEM field. I'm totally onboard with number 1 but my number 2 will be very very different than yours.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

4/30/12
Abdel:

The plan for everyone should be:

1- Make enough money to retire before 35

2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.

Abdel how old are you? That was my goal too when I was graduating college. But priorities and goals change with wisdom.

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:
Abdel:

The plan for everyone should be:

1- Make enough money to retire before 35

2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.

Abdel how old are you? That was my goal too when I was graduating college. But priorities and goals change with wisdom.

I just graduated.

However, I'm quite surprised at your comment: '' priorities and goals change with wisdom'' reguarding STEM research.

I mean if you're wealthy enough to retire young, what will you do? Traveling the globe and have fun with friends is cool for a moment but you'll get quickly tired of it.

The only thing left that's really stimulating, is STEM research. You can even build your own laboratory.

On one hand, you'll be useful to humanity and on the other, it is intellectually stimulating and it gives a goal to your life. What else do you want?

4/30/12
Abdel:

I just graduated.

However, I'm quite surprised at your comment: '' priorities and goals change with wisdom'' reguarding STEM research.

I mean if you're wealthy enough to retire young, what will you do? Traveling the globe and have fun with friends is cool for a moment but you'll get quickly tired of it.

The only thing left that's really stimulating, is STEM research. You can even build your own laboratory.

On one hand, you'll be useful to humanity and on the other, it is intellectually stimulating and it gives a goal to your life. What else do you want?

STEM research isn't necessarily a bad thing, but why do you need to retire at 35 to do it?

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:
Abdel:

I just graduated.

However, I'm quite surprised at your comment: '' priorities and goals change with wisdom'' reguarding STEM research.

I mean if you're wealthy enough to retire young, what will you do? Traveling the globe and have fun with friends is cool for a moment but you'll get quickly tired of it.

The only thing left that's really stimulating, is STEM research. You can even build your own laboratory.

On one hand, you'll be useful to humanity and on the other, it is intellectually stimulating and it gives a goal to your life. What else do you want?

STEM research isn't necessarily a bad thing, but why do you need to retire at 35 to do it?

I said the youngest the better.

4/30/12
Abdel:
IlliniProgrammer:
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

LOL Eddie, you forgot to mention that us older-than-25-year-olds feel bad for those kids.

Financial security IS a good objective to spend a few years on. But money is NOT the purpose of life and it certainly doesn't mean success in life. If you're not religious, the world's most successful person was probably either an English playwright or a Greek philosopher who was sentenced to death. For those of us who are religious, the world's most successful mortal might have been a bedouin shepherd or a simple fisherman from the Sea of Galilee.

Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820. And we're beginning to forget the Rothschilds and the Vanderbilts. In two more generations, we will be forgetting the Rockefellers. And this starts to really hit home the second you notice the first signs of aging. Best situation, kids, is that in 100 years, you get a 200 word blurb in the back pages of some forgotten encyclopedia.

The plan for everyone should be:

1- Make enough money to retire before 35

2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.

That's a bit myopic and arbitrary don't you think? I think the plan for everyone should be try to find fulfillment in what you do while hopefully leaving the people you interact with in a better place than when you found them. My ultimate goal is to strive to be happy and hopefully make others happy, while not putting my needs and wants above those of my loved ones.

4/30/12

rufiolove:
I think the plan for everyone should be try to find fulfillment in what you do while hopefully leaving the people you interact with in a better place than when you found them. My ultimate goal is to strive to be happy and hopefully make others happy, while not putting my needs and wants above those of my loved ones.

Best thing I have read today. Everybody think that they got it all figured out for everyone else. The problem is that no one really see the elephant in the room. You think it is a rope. I say it is a wall. And we are all right and all wrong at the same time.

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820.

Probably should have gone with a less important individual as the ruler during this period of time was Francis II, who founded the Austrian Empire to become its first leader, and subsequently becoming Francis I.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

4/30/12
Nefarious-:
IlliniProgrammer:
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820.

Probably should have gone with a less important individual as the ruler during this period of time was Francis II, who founded the Austrian Empire to become its first leader, and subsequently becoming Francis I.

Ok, if you're a history major, you remember or care. 95% of us have forgotten. The poor guy founded an entire empire, and nobody remembers him.

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:
Nefarious-:
IlliniProgrammer:
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820.

Probably should have gone with a less important individual as the ruler during this period of time was Francis II, who founded the Austrian Empire to become its first leader, and subsequently becoming Francis I.

Ok, if you're a history major, you remember or care. 95% of us have forgotten. The poor guy founded an entire empire, and nobody remembers him.

I am not a history major, I just remember from high school. I thought it was weird the guy went from Francis II to Francis I.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

4/30/12
Edmundo Braverman:

Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

Agreed. In 2008 I took this approach, and while I didn't make it into an area where I get filthy rich quickly, I did reach my original goal. Time for the next wave of barbarians

IlliniProgrammer:

[There is no "I'm making the world a better place .

...I actually am at my job. At the end of the day, it's the work itself that drains the life out of me. The question has become "how else can I make a living, use what I've learned so far, and still sleep at night?"

barf:

Now seems like the worst time to come in as a post-MBA associate doesn't it...

Yeah dude, it's bad. Personally, I'm waiting a year in hopes that it picks up. You might not be that bad off, as some projections are that the economy will trend up at the end of the year after the elections.

Get busy living

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4/30/12

I've always wondered how in such an increasingly commoditized industry rising senior bankers can forge true relationships beyond the brand of their firms.

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

4/30/12

Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread. Will be taking this very serious as I enter the finance field. f

4/30/12
Faddy:

Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread. Will be taking this very serious as I enter the finance field. f

Not sure how useful knowing who FrancisII/I will be in finance.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

4/30/12

Double post, thanks again for this thread

4/30/12

I have similar aspirations to Abdel. More a focus on space exploration than general research though, or some form of a political career.

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

4/30/12

Whenever I'm out having fun with my friends, all I find myself thinking is "when can i get started on my STEM research."

4/30/12
TheKing:

Whenever I'm out having fun with my friends, all I find myself thinking is "when can i get started on my STEM research."

I would SB if I could...just lol'ed while sitting in a conference room

4/30/12

Because it'd probably require higher education than what you have and they make shit money compared to high finance so you'd really just be doing it for kicks?

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

4/30/12
moneymogul:

Because it'd probably require higher education than what you have and they make shit money compared to high finance so you'd really just be doing it for kicks?

But if you exit with $500K in savings, that might not be enough to retire on, but it's probably enough to pay off the house and get the family living off of a professor's or researcher's salary.

4/30/12

These topics are getting kind of depressing :\

I don't even know what I really want in life. I think it would be cool to be like a senator some day, but then again, it's probably just as stressful as finance.

Shrug. I don't know what makes me happy.

4/30/12

But if you exit with $500K in savings, that might not be enough to retire on, but it's probably enough to pay off the house and get the family living off of a professor's or researcher's salary.

Yeah I guess by "retirement" he meant from the finance world.

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

4/30/12
moneymogul:

But if you exit with $500K in savings, that might not be enough to retire on, but it's probably enough to pay off the house and get the family living off of a professor's or researcher's salary.

Yeah I guess by "retirement" he meant from the finance world.

No, I meant, REAL retirement.

4/30/12

Well that's a nice goal that I'm sure everyone aspires for including myself, but speaking in terms of the average finance guy who follows "the path" you won't be retiring at 35. That would require something a bit more entrepreneurial.

"Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

4/30/12
moneymogul:

Well that's a nice goal that I'm sure everyone aspires for including myself, but speaking in terms of the average finance guy who follows "the path" you won't be retiring at 35. That would require something a bit more entrepreneurial.

Added to this is the fact that this numbers gets raised much higher once you factor in marriage and kids.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

4/30/12

I might as well give trading a shot. I don't see any downside to it.

Worst case scenario? My ass gets fired or I get fed up and quit, and then I find something else to do with my life.

On the other hand, I don't want to be looking back when I'm 40, wondering to myself "What would have happened if I gave that trading thing a shot, way back when? Would I be happier than I am today?"

I'm going to try to live the rest of my life without regrets. I have enough of those from my childhood. If finance isn't for me, no big deal. It's not like I'm getting married to it.

4/30/12

It's look like Tier2Sta thread have benn hijacked lol. Nevertheless some deep true being said here. Thanks everyone for sharing.
But as said SamuelClemens it's kind of depressing for people who still don't know what make them happier.

4/30/12
TheSquale:

But as said SamuelClemens it's kind of depressing for people who still don't know what make them happier.

Welcome to life. Christians believe the wisest man in the world was driven to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesiastes>misery trying to figure out its meaning and our purpose here. And most of us late-20-somethings know less about why we're here than we did when we were 22.

4/30/12

You should be right...
Another questions, why some decide to stay in IB in spite of all what Tier2Sta said for example.
Are these people so driven by money that they forget everything else ?

4/30/12
TheSquale:

You should be right...
Another questions, why some decide to stay in IB in spite of all what Tier2Sta said for example.
Are these people so driven by money that they forget everything else ?

Some of these people find work/life balance. Good for them.

Some of these people really do believe money is #1 on life's priorities list. I feel bad for them that they can't find anything more interesting.

Some of these people have more endurance for inertia in their careers. They know everything I'm saying, they're unhappy, but they're patient and they're tough. Maybe they're hoping things get better. Good for them- well, sort of.

Some of these people just aren't paying attention, will have a mid-life crisis around 40, and go become priests, friars, and nuns. I feel bad for these people too.

...I actually am at my job. At the end of the day, it's the work itself that drains the life out of me. The question has become "how else can I make a living, use what I've learned so far, and still sleep at night?"

Trust me UFO, if you work in S&T or IBD, you probably don't, at least according to a number of studies about economic value created by banks.

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:
TheSquale:

You should be right...
Another questions, why some decide to stay in IB in spite of all what Tier2Sta said for example.
Are these people so driven by money that they forget everything else ?

Some of these people find work/life balance. Good for them.

I think that boutiques are going to become a lot more competitive for top talent as many do offer a significantly better work/life balance both at the analyst level and particularly at the Associate/VP/MD levels. If the gap in compensation continues to shrink, the lifestyle at a boutique looks that much better.

Caveat: Not all boutiques have a great work/life balance, some are sweat shops. Choose wisely...

4/30/12

Obviously this site is industry weighted but I think you younger guys will see that by the time you're in your late twenties you will have friends in every profession go through the OP's transformation. "This seemed interesting---> now it sucks. I thought the money was good ---> now not so much. I learned a lot at the beginning ---> not anymore. When I started here things were different! (even they weren't)"

Banking is certainly rough, and the industry has seen an exceptional level of tumult, but dissatisfaction/apathy with a job you've been doing for 3-5 years is industry agnostic. Do the best job you can, wherever you end up, and the next thing will be a lot easier to come by.

4/30/12

You guys are killing me here. I'm currently working at a at a pretty reputable f500 financial firm. But was looking to get a job in ib or pe here in the next couple of months. Just feel like the job is too easy and I'm looking for more of a challenge.... Thoughts about my situation?

4/30/12
PaulOwen:

You guys are killing me here. I'm currently working at a at a pretty reputable f500 financial firm. But was looking to get a job in ib or pe here in the next couple of months. Just feel like the job is too easy and I'm looking for more of a challenge.... Thoughts about my situation?

Enjoy it! Make the job more interesting. Ask good questions and climb the ladder in front of you.

The smart hard-working guy in a room full of average people eventually becomes the leader. The smart guy in a room full of smart people is a grunt.

The problems at an F500 in the industrial sector, utilities, oil companies, pharma; these problems are all real and very important and really do affect people's lives and livelihoods. There is a very close connection there. That new power plant is going to reduce SO2 emissions by 50%, leaving a cleaner environment. That new drug for blood pressure is going to save hundreds of lives. That new tractor will make life easier for thousands of farmers. We NEED smart people at F500 companies, and that's where the money is EVENTUALLY going to slosh back to.

I feel like this should be a slogan somewhere

I should probably give partial attribution to a set of comments Jay Leno made about Hollywood. He was basically saying that it's great to work in hollywood, but you shouldn't define yourself by it. When you are spending 60-70 hours+/week at work, it is very easy to define yourself by it, and that's how you start to get drunk on wall street.

4/30/12

If you do not like your work then get out, of course. I congratulate the OP and others on taking their life in hand and doing something to change themselves. I hope it works out for them.

However, as someone who has been in the business for a decade, loves my work, and plans to do it until the day I die (provided my brain still works) I see the volume of these stories as a great contrarian indicator that we finally are seeing a bottom in the financial industry. In 2008 people laughed at me when i said the industry was in for a bad run on this forum. Wall st always over-fires, it'll be over in 6 months, u r a perma-bear, etc etc. Now here we are almost 5 years later, the S&P is near 1400 (w financials amongst the best performers), the economic data is slowly improving, and the consensus here seems to be that the best move is to become a farmer, tech entrepreneur, or street musician. Outside WSO in the real-world this is also the first year that I have heard people getting fired "throwing in the towel" and saying they are not going to try to re-enter the industry...in 2007-09 I heard none of that. This is classic market-clearing behavior...the definition of capitulation.

I am not a farmer, cant play the piano and unfortunately I surely am not the next Zuckerberg but I am a trader and I have been taught to always be wary of a lazy consensus view.

4/30/12
Bondarb:

If you do not like your work then get out, of course. I congratulate the OP and others on taking their life in hand and doing something to change themselves. I hope it works out for them.

However, as someone who has been in the business for a decade, loves my work, and plans to do it until the day I die (provided my brain still works) I see the volume of these stories as a great contrarian indicator that we finally are seeing a bottom in the financial industry. In 2008 people laughed at me when i said the industry was in for a bad run on this forum. Wall st always over-fires, it'll be over in 6 months, u r a perma-bear, etc etc. Now here we are almost 5 years later, the S&P is near 1400 (w financials amongst the best performers), the economic data is slowly improving, and the consensus here seems to be that the best move is to become a farmer, tech entrepreneur, or street musician. Outside WSO in the real-world this is also the first year that I have heard people getting fired "throwing in the towel" and saying they are not going to try to re-enter the industry...in 2007-09 I heard none of that. This is classic market-clearing behavior...the definition of capitulation.

I am not a farmer, cant play the piano and unfortunately I surely am not the next Zuckerberg but I am a trader and I have been taught to always be wary of a lazy consensus view.

Awesome.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

5/1/12
Bondarb:

If you do not like your work then get out, of course. I congratulate the OP and others on taking their life in hand and doing something to change themselves. I hope it works out for them.

However, as someone who has been in the business for a decade, loves my work, and plans to do it until the day I die (provided my brain still works) I see the volume of these stories as a great contrarian indicator that we finally are seeing a bottom in the financial industry. In 2008 people laughed at me when i said the industry was in for a bad run on this forum. Wall st always over-fires, it'll be over in 6 months, u r a perma-bear, etc etc. Now here we are almost 5 years later, the S&P is near 1400 (w financials amongst the best performers), the economic data is slowly improving, and the consensus here seems to be that the best move is to become a farmer, tech entrepreneur, or street musician. Outside WSO in the real-world this is also the first year that I have heard people getting fired "throwing in the towel" and saying they are not going to try to re-enter the industry...in 2007-09 I heard none of that. This is classic market-clearing behavior...the definition of capitulation.

I am not a farmer, cant play the piano and unfortunately I surely am not the next Zuckerberg but I am a trader and I have been taught to always be wary of a lazy consensus view.

Beautiful.

4/30/12

Good luck to both of you.
I can relate in some ways, and I think your mid to late 20's is a great time to reassess and redirect your life/focus/talents if you feel the need.
You get to sort things out in your head when there is less at stake and you have more options.

4/30/12

Thanks for writing. Best of luck!

4/30/12

Those are some wise words illin, I can't deny that. Now I'm even more stuck. Literally have the cover letter and resume ready to go. Just don't know if I would be throwing a great opportunity away. I have connects very high up in the company too. Killin me.

4/30/12
PaulOwen:

Those are some wise words illin, I can't deny that. Now I'm even more stuck. Literally have the cover letter and resume ready to go. Just don't know if I would be throwing a great opportunity away. I have connects very high up in the company too. Killin me.

Give it six more months. Ask good, polite, smart questions of your higher-ups. When someone scratches their head and says, "Hey, we've never thought of that", take the initiative and try to prove out whether or not your idea could work. That will draw some positive attention to yourself, and leave you in a good spot to ask to be transferred into a role within the firm that you're more interested in- especially if it's related to your research.

Most corporate executives and higher level managers are as smart as bankers. Some of them are probably much smarter. They like to be surrounded by other smart people and they like to give opportunities to smart people who take initiative.

The nice thing about working at a F500 firm is that it doesn't take as much work to show initiative; it doesn't take as much intellect to show brilliance. There are smart people everywhere, but a smart person at Occidental Petroleum tends to stand out a whole lot more there than he would at JP Morgan.

4/30/12

Maye bondarb. But I'm not seeing 24-year-olds or 40-somethings quitting here. I'm seeing guys in their late '20s quitting. This is pretty typical of what happens on wall street. People have always come to Wall Street on the four or five year plan, and they leave after that. You and I both know that this is nothing new.

I think what's really going on here is the age of the forums. A lot of guys found the site in 2006 when they were interns. So now it's a year of school and five years in industry later. Four or five years was a nice round number for us to promise ourselves when it was over. Now that date is approaching and our subconscious is forcing us to think about getting out.

You come to Wall Street, you live like a monk, you work like hell, you accumulate your savings, then you take it somewhere outside NYC where a dollar is still a dollar, and you spend it there. After five years of savings, my lifetime utility is now maximized by taking the money and working elsewhere, outside NYC. If Wall Street were booming, maybe I would have added a year; if it were TRULY a bottom (total comps down 60%) like 2003 was for programming, I might have knocked one year off.

4/30/12
IlliniProgrammer:

Maye bondarb. But I'm not seeing 24-year-olds or 40-somethings quitting here. I'm seeing guys in their late '20s quitting. This is pretty typical of what happens on wall street. People have always come to Wall Street on the four or five year plan, and they leave after that. You and I both know that this is nothing new.

I think what's really going on here is the age of the forums. A lot of guys found the site in 2006 when they were interns. So now it's a year of school and five years in industry later. Four or five years was a nice round number for us to promise ourselves when it was over. Now that date is approaching and our subconscious is forcing us to think about getting out.

You come to Wall Street, you live like a monk, you work like hell, you accumulate your savings, then you take it somewhere outside NYC where a dollar is still a dollar, and you spend it there. After five years of savings, my lifetime utility is now maximized by taking the money and working elsewhere, outside NYC. If Wall Street were booming, maybe I would have added a year; if it were TRULY a bottom (total comps down 60%) like 2003 was for programming, I might have knocked one year off.

Maybe the OP can speak for himself but I dont think he came into the industry planning to leave in 5 years. On his list of reasons for leaving the industry I dont see "this was the plan all along". And I have absolutely seen 40 year olds and 24 year olds "getting out" which is what I was talking about when i said people off the forum throwing in the towel after getting fired. And wasnt our favorite street musician/the next billy joel a 23 year old analyst?

4/30/12
Bondarb:

Maybe the OP can speak for himself but I dont think he came into the industry planning to leave in 5 years. On his list of reasons for leaving the industry I dont see "this was the plan all along". And I have absolutely seen 40 year olds and 24 year olds "getting out" which is what I was talking about when i said people off the forum throwing in the towel after getting fired. And wasnt our favorite street musician/the next billy joel a 23 year old analyst?

True. It was kinda my plan.

I think this bodes well for the economy. A lot of intellect and talent is getting out of the casino and heading off to industry. I'm not sure having nuclear engineers work on structured products helps the economy quite as much, net-net, as having nuclear engineers work on uprating reactors, getting licenses extended, and helping to expand the grid for wind energy.

4/30/12

I'm making it up as I go along.

4/30/12

I am really tired of these circle jerk threads.

Also, don't say "+1" if you don't actually give a +1.

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

4/30/12
Nefarious-:

I am really tired of these circle jerk threads.

Also, don't say "+1" if you don't actually give a +1.

+1

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

4/30/12
Flake:
Nefarious-:

I am really tired of these circle jerk threads.

Also, don't say "+1" if you don't actually give a +1.

+1

http://chelleshockk.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/ff...

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

4/30/12

This is how I sleep at night and go to work everyday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl6rXJ4NFao

I've always been on the product side, so I haven't had the same amount of soul-draining nights as the industry bankers. So that may contribute to why I'm still a little bit of an idealist.

4/30/12

Maybe I don't trade enough size or I just got lucky with a good group, but I love my job. I get to make great money, intellectually stimulating, and it is a real life human psychology experiment. Even if I get paid (slightly) less than the cash bonuses that were getting handed out before Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers went under, as a junior analyst that is fine. There is no other occupation in the world where the sky is truly the limit and someone can go from being in the bottom half of their graduation class to making a shitload of money if they have other skills like mental toughness and an ability to put themselves in a position to be lucky. For me to quit this job or career path would require me to be escorted out of the building by a team of security guards because to be honest, I don't have a magic number, I could do this for a long fucking time. Maybe not from a NYC high rise, but in some way or another I am here to stay and I have worked a lot of other shittier jobs to confirm that is the case.

4/30/12
Cash4Gold:

Maybe I don't trade enough size or I just got lucky with a good group, but I love my job. I get to make great money, intellectually stimulating, and it is a real life human psychology experiment. Even if I get paid (slightly) less than the cash bonuses that were getting handed out before Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers went under, as a junior analyst that is fine. There is no other occupation in the world where the sky is truly the limit and someone can go from being in the bottom half of their graduation class to making a shitload of money if they have other skills like mental toughness and an ability to put themselves in a position to be lucky. For me to quit this job or career path would require me to be escorted out of the building by a team of security guards because to be honest, I don't have a magic number, I could do this for a long fucking time. Maybe not from a NYC high rise, but in some way or another I am here to stay and I have worked a lot of other shittier jobs to confirm that is the case.

What type of trading do you do?

4/30/12

And btw just because the game is changing doesn't mean it is dead. It is dead for those who cannot offer a service that justifies getting paid at their level. The rules are still the same, those who make money or help make money live, and the others hang around until they burn out or get pushed out. For everything else, the Fed writes a blank check.

4/30/12

ILLINI - CALLING YOU OUT

I understand that you're not interested in high finance anymore, but please stop spreading this "grass is greener" crap, especially with respect to corporate development. The poster that said this kind of disillusionment is largely industry agnostic is largely right.

I also happen to have worked with a lot of corp dev types at the kind of companies you mention. Same politics. Same bullshit. Only difference is reduced compensation, less rapid career advancement, and often less interesting work.

You need to grow up a little if you think people like this are coming to work because it's fulfilling. The fact is, most paid work sucks. Even jobs where you are making a direct, measurable impact ( e.g. most on this thread wouldn't volunteer to be third grade teacher, social worker, nurse).

Such is life and the nature of things.

PaulOwens, please ignore him, submit your applications, and don't depend on internet forum wisemen for advice on life decisions.

P.S. Your wife + kids + easy life in the suburbs ideal is itself largely a mirage. One thing to appreciate about finance: you might be a grunt, but at least you're grunt to the people that run s***. I wouldn't give that up to join any F500 corporate machine.

P.S.2. I'm not saying this to make myself feel better about my life choices. I think their lives do in fact suck and they tend to be somewhat pathetic (as do most ppl in financial services)

4/30/12

Macro. Volcker exempt

4/30/12

ADVICE FOR U ILLINI

Dude, this Fortune 500 stuff is bullshit. TRUST ME! Illinois Programmer you call yourself? GET BACK TO IT! Learn some web development. Join a startup. COME TO CHICAGO!

Chances are against you striking it rich, but its astounding to me that you'd even consider being a tool in a F500 toolkit when you have an actual, valuable skillset that could make you both INDEPENDENT and WELL COMPENSATED.

COME ON MAN! PM me if you want to chat about this.

5/1/12
dazedmonk:

ADVICE FOR U ILLINI

Dude, this Fortune 500 stuff is bullshit. TRUST ME! Illinois Programmer you call yourself? GET BACK TO IT! Learn some web development. Join a startup. COME TO CHICAGO!

Chances are against you striking it rich, but its astounding to me that you'd even consider being a tool in a F500 toolkit when you have an actual, valuable skillset that could make you both INDEPENDENT and WELL COMPENSATED.

COME ON MAN! PM me if you want to chat about this.

Actually, I think Illini's absolutely right, corp dev is a much better job than programming -- http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-04-22/software-...

5/1/12
dazedmonk:

ADVICE FOR U ILLINI

Dude, this Fortune 500 stuff is bullshit. TRUST ME! Illinois Programmer you call yourself? GET BACK TO IT! Learn some web development. Join a startup. COME TO CHICAGO!

Chances are against you striking it rich, but its astounding to me that you'd even consider being a tool in a F500 toolkit when you have an actual, valuable skillset that could make you both INDEPENDENT and WELL COMPENSATED.

COME ON MAN! PM me if you want to chat about this.

Programming is a good put option. I spent three years of my career on it; I can always go back if I pick up a book on the latest imperative programming language. Or even if we move into functional programming like Ocaml one day.

It is helpful for doing startups.

F500 Corp dev doesn't provide job much job fulfillment either, but it leaves me with more free time to find my own fulfillment.

This is not a grass is greener thread. This is a thread about how your priorities tend to change as money becomes more abundant and your remaining time on this planet becomes more dear.

5/1/12
IlliniProgrammer:
dazedmonk:

ADVICE FOR U ILLINI

Dude, this Fortune 500 stuff is bullshit. TRUST ME! Illinois Programmer you call yourself? GET BACK TO IT! Learn some web development. Join a startup. COME TO CHICAGO!

Chances are against you striking it rich, but its astounding to me that you'd even consider being a tool in a F500 toolkit when you have an actual, valuable skillset that could make you both INDEPENDENT and WELL COMPENSATED.

COME ON MAN! PM me if you want to chat about this.

Programming is a good put option. I spent three years of my career on it; I can always go back if I pick up a book on the latest imperative programming language. Or even if we move into functional programming like Ocaml one day.

It is helpful for doing startups.

F500 Corp dev doesn't provide job much job fulfillment either, but it leaves me with more free time to find my own fulfillment.

This is not a grass is greener thread. This is a thread about how your priorities tend to change as money becomes more abundant and your remaining time on this planet becomes more dear.

Dude me and you have different versions of the term "financial independence" and "fulfillment". I dont think that at age 26 after working five years on wall st you are even close to financial independent at least not living the way I want to live. I'd rather work till the day I die and live the way I want then to move to Iowa and be forced to be live the way you describe as "fulfilled". Working 9-5 in the fortune 500 in some corporate structure is a nightmare to me. I mean literally I have nightmares about wearing khakis, company-logoed polo shirts, and wearing my blackberry on a belt-clip and I wake up in a cold sweat. Dude you are going to be like the Asian version of Lumberg from Office Space asking people who hate you for TPS reports. Call me twenty years down the line and we'll see whether you are still happy living this way, but I believe its an antiquated bullshit myth that moving to suburbia and becoming nuclear family man in a corporate job will bring you any more happiness. My guess is that you should strap in and prepare for a wicked midlife crisis down the line b/c i've seen it before.

But hey, to each his own.

5/1/12
Bondarb:

Dude me and you have different versions of the term "financial independence" and "fulfillment". I dont think that at age 26 after working five years on wall st you are even close to financial independent at least not living the way I want to live. I'd rather work till the day I die and live the way I want then to move to Iowa and be forced to be live the way you describe as "fulfilled". Working 9-5 in the fortune 500 in some corporate structure is a nightmare to me. I mean literally I have nightmares about wearing khakis, company-logoed polo shirts, and wearing my blackberry on a belt-clip and I wake up in a cold sweat. Dude you are going to be like the Asian version of Lumberg from Office Space asking people who hate you for TPS reports. Call me twenty years down the line and we'll see whether you are still happy living this way, but I believe its an antiquated bullshit myth that moving to suburbia and becoming nuclear family man in a corporate job will bring you any more happiness. My guess is that you should strap in and prepare for a wicked midlife crisis down the line b/c i've seen it before.

But hey, to each his own.

For me, financial independence is having enough money saved up so that you can do anything, but not necessarily enough so that you can do nothing.

Remember you're talking to the guy who drives a rusty honda and eats ramen noodles. As long as I have a roof over my head, food on the table, and halfway decent health insurance, I can be content with what I have. PBR or Yellowtail and hang gliding would be nice, too. :D

5/1/12
IlliniProgrammer:
Bondarb:

Dude me and you have different versions of the term "financial independence" and "fulfillment". I dont think that at age 26 after working five years on wall st you are even close to financial independent at least not living the way I want to live. I'd rather work till the day I die and live the way I want then to move to Iowa and be forced to be live the way you describe as "fulfilled". Working 9-5 in the fortune 500 in some corporate structure is a nightmare to me. I mean literally I have nightmares about wearing khakis, company-logoed polo shirts, and wearing my blackberry on a belt-clip and I wake up in a cold sweat. Dude you are going to be like the Asian version of Lumberg from Office Space asking people who hate you for TPS reports. Call me twenty years down the line and we'll see whether you are still happy living this way, but I believe its an antiquated bullshit myth that moving to suburbia and becoming nuclear family man in a corporate job will bring you any more happiness. My guess is that you should strap in and prepare for a wicked midlife crisis down the line b/c i've seen it before.

But hey, to each his own.

For me, financial independence is having enough money saved up so that you can do anything, but not necessarily enough so that you can do nothing.

Remember you're talking to the guy who drives a rusty honda and eats ramen noodles. As long as I have a roof over my head, food on the table, and halfway decent health insurance, I can be content with what I have. PBR or Yellowtail and hang gliding would be nice, too. :D

I never understood why people hate ramen noodles it's a staple for me

5/2/12
Bondarb:

[...] Working 9-5 in the fortune 500 in some corporate structure is a nightmare to me. I mean literally I have nightmares about wearing khakis, company-logoed polo shirts, and wearing my blackberry on a belt-clip and I wake up in a cold sweat. [...]

Sent shivers down my spine!

I think I've said it before, but in my opinion the key is autonomy. To have control over one's time and activities. I don't see myself achieving that long term by being a cog in a corporate machine, financial or otherwise.

In the next 3 years (or earlier) I'm going to try to strike it on my own or with a few friends. In my sector, I wouldn't want to be someone's employee in my late 30s onwards. Imagine having to ask permission to take two months off to do a bit of travelling, or because you want to work on a pet project (film, expedition, rally, write a book, etc...).

If there is a shot that I can escape wage slavery for the rest of my life, I'll take it.

5/1/12
dazedmonk:

ADVICE FOR U ILLINI

Dude, this Fortune 500 stuff is bullshit. TRUST ME! Illinois Programmer you call yourself? GET BACK TO IT! Learn some web development. Join a startup. COME TO CHICAGO!

Chances are against you striking it rich, but its astounding to me that you'd even consider being a tool in a F500 toolkit when you have an actual, valuable skillset that could make you both INDEPENDENT and WELL COMPENSATED.

COME ON MAN! PM me if you want to chat about this.

I'm really not sure why F500 gets so much hate on this site. Most people like of the idea of working on Wall Street more than they like the actual work-- which is fine. But, just because F500 finance jobs aren't on Wall Street, that doesn't mean they're not important positions. I've worked in both banking and F500 and, personally, I've found the work in F500 to be interesting & challanging. The people I work with are incredibly smart, supportive, and understanding in the importance of a life outside of work. I work 9-5, can go out to dinner/drinks during the week, take days off to golf, take weekend trips without worrying about work, etc. I make less money that I would in banking but enjoy my life more. A lot more, actually. Now, in no way am I saying that a recent college grad should choose banking over F500 because I think banking was a valuable experience, but I don't think that banking should be on such a pedestal over F500 finance positions.

4/30/12

^^^Did ILLINI just get hired?

4/30/12

Some of us are entering finance for the game, something to consider.

5/1/12

I recently announced my departure after one year. I haven't felt this good in a long time. Back to the happy person I used to be.

The way you make your money matters. And for me...I don't believe this is the best way.

I am smart enough to figure out a way to make money and enjoy doing it...and that's exactly what I'm going to do.

For me it was never what could I do if I left the industry? It was and is what couldn't I do? There are limitless options. If you can break into IBD....I'm sure you can figure out how to break into plenty of other careers.

I want to live without regrets, I worked at a BB for a year and don't regret it...and I don't regret leaving either.

5/1/12

From the ghetto....

5/1/12
5/1/12
5/1/12
5/1/12

Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

5/5/12
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