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It is time...

...After 6 years Tier2sta is also leaving the industry....

Why? A lot of what Mr Ridley states is true...

  • This thing's not as lucrative as most people imagined, definitely not so now that so much of the above base comp is deferred / deferred stock
  • Banks don't know what business model actually works, they have no idea how to get their ROE back up to where it was pre-2008
  • IBD teams are too thin, at officer level it means there is not enough depth in resource / quality resource below you to do effectively the things you want to do without constantly stepping down to clean up, mop up, fix, re-do.../li>
  • The glamour isn't what it used to be, and because of the increased levels of stress generally it is less fun
  • My contacts are as good as my business card in most cases (there are exceptions but a large proportion of clients I have interacted with see me in exactly the same way they see my peers at other banks, these are not deep and meaningful relationships and they are driven by the product my bank can offer)
  • My sector knowledge is superficial (I covered the same sector throughout). I could never learn about the sector properly through IBD. The more senior I became the more frustrating this became

So I am stepping down. Been a good ride. Some fond memories. But I think now is the time to try something else.

Peace...

7 1

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Comments (103)

  • TheKing's picture

    Congrats on getting out of the rat race. You have any specific plans?

  • UFOinsider's picture

    Tough decision, thanks for sharing. Any plans for what's next?

    FWIW, good luck in all you do going forward

    Get busy living

  • Anacott_CEO's picture

    Good luck, I'm sure you had a good run. What's next?

  • Human's picture

    Thanks for sharing. Best of luck in your future endeavors.

    "I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

  • Nefarious-'s picture

    Are you taking the IBD --> Street Musician path as well?

    You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

  • Abdel's picture

    I guess I'll just become a farmer.

    Thanks for sharing your story...even though we're all happy for you, it is quite disturbing for the up & coming guys.

  • chicandtoughness's picture

    Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

    Currently: becoming a clinical psychologist... yep, I quit finance
    Previously: M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM), business research (HBS)

  • mob01's picture

    Instead of your peace out stories some advice or words of encouragement would be nice.

  • IlliniProgrammer's picture

    I am thinking about getting out, too.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100014240527023048...

    If I work in finance at Exelon/ Commonwealth Edison, I'll be able to come home, flick the light switch, the lights turn on, and I can smile about what I do. If I work at Northern Trust and log in to check my bank account and see interest getting deposited from bank loans, I'll be happy. If I work at Pfizer and wake up on Saturday morning and read in the New York Times about our latest cancer drug, I'll be happy.

    Money is good. Work is good. But as you hit your mid to late 20s, you begin to snap out of chasing castles in the sky and start getting the first inklings of your mortality as a few small hints of gray hair show up, as a few light wrinkles appear, and clocks begin to carry way more symbolism than a piece of furniture should. You look at the money you have in the bank, and it doesn't make you as happy as you thought it would have made you at 22.

    What makes you happy? Friends. Hang gliding/golf/sailing/ things that get you out of the city with friends. Remembering the things you did in college that helped make the world a better place. The arts (sometimes). Spiritual stuff. Money is nice in that it gives you freedom and financial security, but it's not a substitute for the human experience. Kids would probably make me happy too, but they're an 18-year-commitment.

    Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off; spend another two if you can spend your weekends having fun. Enjoy a glass or two; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    UFOinsider's picture

    IlliniProgrammer:
    Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off ... Taste it, enjoy it; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

    This is perfectly stated.

    Get busy living

  • In reply to Abdel
    Ultima-RDK's picture

    Abdel:

    Thanks for sharing your story...even though we're all happy for you, it is quite disturbing for the up & coming guys.

    This...

    Good luck to you as well as you move forward. Thanks for sharing.

    Sometimes lies are more dependable than the truth.

  • IlliniProgrammer's picture

    Instead of your peace out stories some advice or words of encouragement would be nice.

    Thanks for sharing your story...even though we're all happy for you, it is quite disturbing for the up & coming guys.

    Our goal here is to impart wisdom. And it would be wrong of us to encourage you to do something without giving you the whole truth.

    The bottom line is that one of the things that gives you pride in your work is the fact that it creates genuine economic value.

    When you get to a financial firm, you're now talking about being three or four steps away from economic productivity. You don't get as much job satisfaction. There is no "I'm making the world a better place or at least helping to keep civilization running."

    If you're straight out of school, you don't notice it for two years, and for two years after that, you can handle it without it getting to you. But eventually, if you're an intelligent person who isn't a total nihilist, it will get to you. And you need to keep that in mind as you go in.

    The experience WILL help you with future jobs. And it WILL give you a lot of wisdom. And you WILL save up a decent nest egg if you live somewhat frugally. But most of you are going to discover at some point that your life is too valuable to spend it chasing seven figure salaries. Especially given the fact that this is a *shrinking* industry, not a growing one.

    If I were starting over today at 22 with an offer from a top tier new york bank, I'd still take it. But I'd plan on staying for two years, not four. And I'd plan on leaving for corporate development or corporate finance at an F500 firm where I had a 50 hour/week job afterwards. Life is too short, and your working 20s are too precious to spend more than about one quarter of them in the money chase. You need to be chasing fun, families, wisdom, spirituality, and making the world a better place. And the sooner that you realize that your material accomplishments all turn to dust in 100 years, the happier your late 20s will be.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    Ultima-RDK's picture

    IP:

    If you're straight out of school, you don't notice it for two years, and for two years after that, you can handle it without it getting to you. But eventually, if you're an intelligent person who isn't a total nihilist, it will get to you. And you need to keep that in mind as you go in.

    The experience WILL help you with future jobs. And it WILL give you a lot of wisdom. And you WILL save up a decent nest egg if you live somewhat frugally. But most of you are going to discover at some point that your life is too valuable to spend it chasing seven figure salaries.

    Yes. Thank you, IP.

    Sometimes lies are more dependable than the truth.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    SECfinance's picture

    IlliniProgrammer:

    Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off; spend another two if you can spend your weekends having fun. Enjoy a glass or two; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

    IP, this may be the best thing you've ever said.

    MM IB -> Corporate Development

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  • barf's picture

    Now seems like the worst time to come in as a post-MBA associate doesn't it...

  • IlliniProgrammer's picture

    'fraid so barf. Though I imagine your experience pre-MBA is a lot different than my experience, and associates do get a bit more free time.

    My experience is that in terms of aging, every year on the trading floor is more like two years. You see guys who look like they're 50 or 60 who graduated school twenty years ago. I am seeing a few shades of gray come in, and I'm only 27. Some days I feel like everyone on the trading floor is like Walter Donovan drinking the false grail on Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

    Hopefully you haven't hit that point yet of hearing the sound of a ticking clock and getting depressed about life. Come in for two years, do a stint on Wall Street, and then get out. If you aren't married yet, WAIT. Save up a nest egg first, then get a job at a Fortune 500 firm that involves working 50 hours/week, pay cash for your home, and come home every night to a family that you love without having to worry too much about money or stressful jobs. It's not work-life balance; it's work-life tradeoff, and I think that once you have the house paid off, everyone has health and life insurance, and you can put food on the table, life needs to become the general priority.

  • In reply to UFOinsider
    rufiolove's picture

    UFOinsider:
    IlliniProgrammer:
    Come to Wall Street. Spend two years working your butt off ... Taste it, enjoy it; just don't get drunk on it. Cause the hangover is a real bitch.

    This is perfectly stated.

    Agreed

  • In reply to Edmundo Braverman
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    Edmundo Braverman:
    Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

    LOL Eddie, you forgot to mention that us older-than-25-year-olds feel bad for those kids.

    Financial security IS a good objective to spend a few years on. But money is NOT the purpose of life and it certainly doesn't mean success in life. If you're not religious, the world's most successful person was *probably* either an English playwright or a Greek philosopher who was sentenced to death. For those of us who are religious, the world's most successful mortal might have been a bedouin shepherd or a simple fisherman from the Sea of Galilee.

    Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820. And we're beginning to forget the Rothschilds and the Vanderbilts. In two more generations, we will be forgetting the Rockefellers. And this starts to really hit home the second you notice the first signs of aging. Best situation, kids, is that in 100 years, you get a 200 word blurb in the back pages of some forgotten encyclopedia.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    Abdel's picture

    IlliniProgrammer:
    Edmundo Braverman:
    Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

    LOL Eddie, you forgot to mention that us older-than-25-year-olds feel bad for those kids.

    Financial security IS a good objective to spend a few years on. But money is NOT the purpose of life and it certainly doesn't mean success in life. If you're not religious, the world's most successful person was *probably* either an English playwright or a Greek philosopher who was sentenced to death. For those of us who are religious, the world's most successful mortal might have been a bedouin shepherd or a simple fisherman from the Sea of Galilee.

    Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820. And we're beginning to forget the Rothschilds and the Vanderbilts. In two more generations, we will be forgetting the Rockefellers. And this starts to really hit home the second you notice the first signs of aging. Best situation, kids, is that in 100 years, you get a 200 word blurb in the back pages of some forgotten encyclopedia.

    The plan for everyone should be:

    1- Make enough money to retire before 35

    2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    Nefarious-'s picture

    IlliniProgrammer:
    Edmundo Braverman:
    Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

    Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820.

    Probably should have gone with a less important individual as the ruler during this period of time was Francis II, who founded the Austrian Empire to become its first leader, and subsequently becoming Francis I.

    You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

  • moneymogul's picture

    I've always wondered how in such an increasingly commoditized industry rising senior bankers can forge true relationships beyond the brand of their firms.

    "Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

  • In reply to Abdel
    happypantsmcgee's picture

    Abdel:
    IlliniProgrammer:
    Edmundo Braverman:
    Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

    LOL Eddie, you forgot to mention that us older-than-25-year-olds feel bad for those kids.

    Financial security IS a good objective to spend a few years on. But money is NOT the purpose of life and it certainly doesn't mean success in life. If you're not religious, the world's most successful person was *probably* either an English playwright or a Greek philosopher who was sentenced to death. For those of us who are religious, the world's most successful mortal might have been a bedouin shepherd or a simple fisherman from the Sea of Galilee.

    Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820. And we're beginning to forget the Rothschilds and the Vanderbilts. In two more generations, we will be forgetting the Rockefellers. And this starts to really hit home the second you notice the first signs of aging. Best situation, kids, is that in 100 years, you get a 200 word blurb in the back pages of some forgotten encyclopedia.

    The plan for everyone should be:

    1- Make enough money to retire before 35

    2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.


    Yea, because everyone wants to do research in a STEM field. I'm totally onboard with number 1 but my number 2 will be very very different than yours.

    If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

  • In reply to Nefarious-
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    Nefarious-:
    IlliniProgrammer:
    Edmundo Braverman:
    Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

    Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820.

    Probably should have gone with a less important individual as the ruler during this period of time was Francis II, who founded the Austrian Empire to become its first leader, and subsequently becoming Francis I.


    Ok, if you're a history major, you remember or care. 95% of us have forgotten. The poor guy founded an entire empire, and nobody remembers him.
  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    Nefarious-'s picture

    IlliniProgrammer:
    Nefarious-:
    IlliniProgrammer:
    Edmundo Braverman:
    Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

    Nobody remembers who was the king of Austria in 1820.

    Probably should have gone with a less important individual as the ruler during this period of time was Francis II, who founded the Austrian Empire to become its first leader, and subsequently becoming Francis I.


    Ok, if you're a history major, you remember or care. 95% of us have forgotten. The poor guy founded an entire empire, and nobody remembers him.

    I am not a history major, I just remember from high school. I thought it was weird the guy went from Francis II to Francis I.

    You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

  • Faddy's picture

    Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread. Will be taking this very serious as I enter the finance field. f

  • Faddy's picture

    Double post, thanks again for this thread

  • In reply to Abdel
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    Abdel:
    The plan for everyone should be:

    1- Make enough money to retire before 35

    2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.


    Abdel how old are you? That was my goal too when I was graduating college. But priorities and goals change with wisdom.
  • In reply to Faddy
    Nefarious-'s picture

    Faddy:
    Some serious knowledge being dropped in this thread. Will be taking this very serious as I enter the finance field. f

    Not sure how useful knowing who FrancisII/I will be in finance.

    You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    Abdel's picture

    IlliniProgrammer:
    Abdel:
    The plan for everyone should be:

    1- Make enough money to retire before 35

    2- Once #1 is done, spend your time doing research in a STEM field.


    Abdel how old are you? That was my goal too when I was graduating college. But priorities and goals change with wisdom.

    I just graduated.

    However, I'm quite surprised at your comment: '' priorities and goals change with wisdom'' reguarding STEM research.

    I mean if you're wealthy enough to retire young, what will you do? Traveling the globe and have fun with friends is cool for a moment but you'll get quickly tired of it.

    The only thing left that's really stimulating, is STEM research. You can even build your own laboratory.

    On one hand, you'll be useful to humanity and on the other, it is intellectually stimulating and it gives a goal to your life. What else do you want?

  • moneymogul's picture

    I have similar aspirations to Abdel. More a focus on space exploration than general research though, or some form of a political career.

    "Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

  • TheKing's picture

    Whenever I'm out having fun with my friends, all I find myself thinking is "when can i get started on my STEM research."

  • In reply to Abdel
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    Abdel:

    I just graduated.

    However, I'm quite surprised at your comment: '' priorities and goals change with wisdom'' reguarding STEM research.

    I mean if you're wealthy enough to retire young, what will you do? Traveling the globe and have fun with friends is cool for a moment but you'll get quickly tired of it.

    The only thing left that's really stimulating, is STEM research. You can even build your own laboratory.

    On one hand, you'll be useful to humanity and on the other, it is intellectually stimulating and it gives a goal to your life. What else do you want?


    STEM research isn't necessarily a bad thing, but why do you need to retire at 35 to do it?
  • moneymogul's picture

    Because it'd probably require higher education than what you have and they make shit money compared to high finance so you'd really just be doing it for kicks?

    "Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

  • SamuelClemens's picture

    These topics are getting kind of depressing :\

    I don't even know what I really want in life. I think it would be cool to be like a senator some day, but then again, it's probably just as stressful as finance.

    Shrug. I don't know what makes me happy.

  • In reply to IlliniProgrammer
    Abdel's picture

    IlliniProgrammer:
    Abdel:

    I just graduated.

    However, I'm quite surprised at your comment: '' priorities and goals change with wisdom'' reguarding STEM research.

    I mean if you're wealthy enough to retire young, what will you do? Traveling the globe and have fun with friends is cool for a moment but you'll get quickly tired of it.

    The only thing left that's really stimulating, is STEM research. You can even build your own laboratory.

    On one hand, you'll be useful to humanity and on the other, it is intellectually stimulating and it gives a goal to your life. What else do you want?


    STEM research isn't necessarily a bad thing, but why do you need to retire at 35 to do it?

    I said the youngest the better.

  • In reply to moneymogul
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    moneymogul:
    Because it'd probably require higher education than what you have and they make shit money compared to high finance so you'd really just be doing it for kicks?

    But if you exit with $500K in savings, that might not be enough to retire on, but it's probably enough to pay off the house and get the family living off of a professor's or researcher's salary.
  • In reply to TheKing
    SF_Reg's picture

    TheKing:
    Whenever I'm out having fun with my friends, all I find myself thinking is "when can i get started on my STEM research."

    I would SB if I could...just lol'ed while sitting in a conference room

  • moneymogul's picture

    But if you exit with $500K in savings, that might not be enough to retire on, but it's probably enough to pay off the house and get the family living off of a professor's or researcher's salary.

    Yeah I guess by "retirement" he meant from the finance world.

    "Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

  • In reply to moneymogul
    Abdel's picture

    moneymogul:
    But if you exit with $500K in savings, that might not be enough to retire on, but it's probably enough to pay off the house and get the family living off of a professor's or researcher's salary.

    Yeah I guess by "retirement" he meant from the finance world.

    No, I meant, REAL retirement.

  • moneymogul's picture

    Well that's a nice goal that I'm sure everyone aspires for including myself, but speaking in terms of the average finance guy who follows "the path" you won't be retiring at 35. That would require something a bit more entrepreneurial.

    "Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected." - Jobs

  • In reply to moneymogul
    Nefarious-'s picture

    moneymogul:
    Well that's a nice goal that I'm sure everyone aspires for including myself, but speaking in terms of the average finance guy who follows "the path" you won't be retiring at 35. That would require something a bit more entrepreneurial.

    Added to this is the fact that this numbers gets raised much higher once you factor in marriage and kids.

    You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.

  • SamuelClemens's picture

    I might as well give trading a shot. I don't see any downside to it.

    Worst case scenario? My ass gets fired or I get fed up and quit, and then I find something else to do with my life.

    On the other hand, I don't want to be looking back when I'm 40, wondering to myself "What would have happened if I gave that trading thing a shot, way back when? Would I be happier than I am today?"

    I'm going to try to live the rest of my life without regrets. I have enough of those from my childhood. If finance isn't for me, no big deal. It's not like I'm getting married to it.

  • TheSquale's picture

    It's look like Tier2Sta thread have benn hijacked lol. Nevertheless some deep true being said here. Thanks everyone for sharing.
    But as said SamuelClemens it's kind of depressing for people who still don't know what make them happier.

  • In reply to TheSquale
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    TheSquale:
    But as said SamuelClemens it's kind of depressing for people who still don't know what make them happier.

    Welcome to life. Christians believe the wisest man in the world was driven to misery trying to figure out its meaning and our purpose here. And most of us late-20-somethings know less about why we're here than we did when we were 22.
  • TheSquale's picture

    You should be right...
    Another questions, why some decide to stay in IB in spite of all what Tier2Sta said for example.
    Are these people so driven by money that they forget everything else ?

  • In reply to Edmundo Braverman
    UFOinsider's picture

    Edmundo Braverman:
    Just waiting for the college sophomores to chime in with, "Good, OP. Now there's more room for me."

    Agreed. In 2008 I took this approach, and while I didn't make it into an area where I get filthy rich quickly, I did reach my original goal. Time for the next wave of barbarians
    IlliniProgrammer:
    [There is no "I'm making the world a better place .

    ...I actually am at my job. At the end of the day, it's the work itself that drains the life out of me. The question has become "how else can I make a living, use what I've learned so far, and still sleep at night?"
    barf:
    Now seems like the worst time to come in as a post-MBA associate doesn't it...

    Yeah dude, it's bad. Personally, I'm waiting a year in hopes that it picks up. You might not be that bad off, as some projections are that the economy will trend up at the end of the year after the elections.

    Get busy living

  • In reply to TheSquale
    IlliniProgrammer's picture

    TheSquale:
    You should be right...
    Another questions, why some decide to stay in IB in spite of all what Tier2Sta said for example.
    Are these people so driven by money that they forget everything else ?

    Some of these people find work/life balance. Good for them.

    Some of these people really do believe money is #1 on life's priorities list. I feel bad for them that they can't find anything more interesting.

    Some of these people have more endurance for inertia in their careers. They know everything I'm saying, they're unhappy, but they're patient and they're tough. Maybe they're hoping things get better. Good for them- well, sort of.

    Some of these people just aren't paying attention, will have a mid-life crisis around 40, and go become priests, friars, and nuns. I feel bad for these people too.

    ...I actually am at my job. At the end of the day, it's the work itself that drains the life out of me. The question has become "how else can I make a living, use what I've learned so far, and still sleep at night?"

    Trust me UFO, if you work in S&T or IBD, you probably don't, at least according to a number of studies about economic value created by banks.
  • In reply to chicandtoughness
    Flake's picture

    chicandtoughness:
    Agreed with Abdel. I'm glad I got out before I started; the volume of these "peace out" stories is getting unsettling. What's next on your roadmap?

    Given your post history, you "getting out before you started" wasn't by choice.

    Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

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