The Prestige Race
I know this forum and Wall Street as a whole places a large premium in prestige, and so have I (not willingly but just the way I was raised I guess) but it's really a race you cannot win. Remember how happy you were when you got into Harvard, Yale, or Princeton? Well, once you get in, you're not gonna be happy until you get into GS/MS, and then you're still not gonna be happy because you need to get into a top buyout shop like KKR or hedge fund like SAC capital.
Then there's business school - even if youre a pre-MBA associate at KKR you're not gonna be happy until you get into HBS, and then you're not gonna be happy until you get a post-associate at KKR/SAC, and then you want to move up, and then you want to be MD/Partner.
And then you're just getting started. Think you'll be satisfied then? Partners bicker every year for bonuses, committee positions, C-level positions, etc. And then you have to worry about your kids getting into Andover and Exeter, and HYP, and the cycle starts all over again
Shit doesn't end. I'm very focused on the "prestige track" and I'm doing well on it, but I hate how shit doesn't end
And I'm happiest when I'm with friends and family, not when I'm thinking of how highly ranked my school/bank is. Personal relationships are what make you happy, not $100 million -- its weird to say that as a lecture but it's so true. Friends of mine were rich enough to buy $20k watches and were still miserable.





Congrats on figuring this out
Congrats on figuring this out early. Now you have to figure out what you actually want to do with you life.
But seriously, it doesn't end and you will likely be miserable if you constantly try to compare.
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So it seems you have come to
So it seems you have come to the realization that there is more to life than money and prestige, yet you are "very focused on the prestige track."
Am I missing something?
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"Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America."
It's sort of that I
It's sort of that I rationally understand it's stupid to follow that track but part of me still wants to be able to say to friends and colleagues "I work at XXX/I attended XXX university." But I also realize that once you move up all the people around you have your same accomplishments anyway so there's no one who would actually be impressed. Stupid I know but I'm trying to walk away from that mindset
I think alot of people also have the feeling that "If I went to Harvard, going to a regular job is a waste, so I'll got to Goldman." but once they start at goldman it's "I did 2 years at goldman, it's a waste NOT to go to KKR, etc" ad infinitum
keep that mentality during
keep that mentality during college so you'll have a good resume after it then think about having a change of heart
machinegunfunk wrote: It's
It's sort of that I rationally understand it's stupid to follow that track but part of me still wants to be able to say to friends and colleagues "I work at XXX/I attended XXX university." But I also realize that once you move up all the people around you have your same accomplishments anyway so there's no one who would actually be impressed. Stupid I know but I'm trying to walk away from that mindset
I think alot of people also have the feeling that "If I went to Harvard, going to a regular job is a waste, so I'll got to Goldman." but once they start at goldman it's "I did 2 years at goldman, it's a waste NOT to go to KKR, etc" ad infinitum
Probably tough to let it go because you place so much of your self-worth in the supposed prestige of where you work. Like you said, outside of WSO (real world) and even on WSO, most people don't give a shit how prestigious a company you work for is...the sooner you mature and get over that the better. If you actually enjoy your work and you want to continue working at top shops because you like the culture / environment / whatever, then nothing wrong with that. Just let go of the prestige card...it's pretentious and sad.
Most people know (or at least eventually figure it out) that there are brilliant people and morons at almost every company and institution -- so don't be so sure that everyone is judging you by the name on your business card.
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One word: Insecurity. And I'm
One word:
Insecurity.
And I'm going to venture a guess that you're Asian - amirite?
Patrick -- thanks, I'm trying
Patrick -- thanks, I'm trying to do that now and I'm happy I'm coming to this realization at 20 as opposed to as a miserable 45 year old MD at Blackstone
This realization is both
This realization is both liberating and empowering in that you are far less beholden to the complex once you're there - suddenly, your employer has that much less sway over you. Of course, you still (probably) need a paycheck, but no longer are you obsessed with working at ____ just because it is the most prestigious.
SB for OP, even if it is a somewhat obvious realization that all monkeys should come to.
You're wise beyond your years
You're wise beyond your years if you realize this while you're still in college. Check out my signature for my feelings on the subject.
- Capt K -
"Prestige is like a powerful magnet that warps even your beliefs about what you enjoy. If you want to make ambitious people waste their time on errands, bait the hook with prestige." - Paul Graham
It will make me kill someone
It will make me kill someone over a business card.
Some people just want to
Some people just want to succeed in things that are rankable. Prestige / reputation can be ranked; hence, the self-fulfillment that comes with it. This is normal and hard to shake off if you just HAVE it internally. You can't cure short or tall, and you can't cure some internal character traits.
Now if you're one of those restless souls and you do succeed, then you should be happy - life is a challenge that you're good at. Imagine how shitty those people with ambition feel who for whatever reason can't or don't or feel like they don't achieve anything.
machinegunfunk wrote: It's
It's sort of that I rationally understand it's stupid to follow that track but part of me still wants to be able to say to friends and colleagues "I work at XXX/I attended XXX university." But I also realize that once you move up all the people around you have your same accomplishments anyway so there's no one who would actually be impressed. Stupid I know but I'm trying to walk away from that mindset
I think alot of people also have the feeling that "If I went to Harvard, going to a regular job is a waste, so I'll got to Goldman." but once they start at goldman it's "I did 2 years at goldman, it's a waste NOT to go to KKR, etc" ad infinitum
Generally speaking, the only people that care or are impressed that you went to XXX university or work at XXX Bank are people that are in similar situations. Otherwise you just sound pretentious when those are the things that define you.
I don't care about prestige.
I don't care about prestige. I would be a janitor if it paid me right.
You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
Congrats guys on figuring
Congrats guys on figuring this out early. Your 20s are some of the best years of your life (though we do have folks learning to fly hang gliders at 50), but you're not really living if life is all about money and prestige.
There is no point working harder than you need to get what's REALLY important out of life. John Rockefeller was a man who gained the world but felt he lost his soul in the process. One of his last letters, he wrote, "I am a shell of a man", and explained how he was lonely, friendless, and his only comfort was his dividend checks.
Howard Hughes was one of the world's first billionaires and arguably cooler and more prestigious in the 1950s than anything today's 22-year-olds aspire to. When he died in 1976, he was alone in Guatemala, his fingernails were twelve inches long, his arms were riddled with stabs from the morphine injections he was addicted to.
That's what it takes to get to the top- and that's how it ends for folks who get there. Is that what folks REALLY want?
I'll take free time, friends, and hang gliding and a comfortable six figures, thank you very much. Someone else can go enjoy bigger salaries, and the screwed up families, sycophantic relationships, and general misery that come with doing whatever it takes to get to the top.
Probably tough to let it go because you place so much of your self-worth in the supposed prestige of where you work. Like you said, outside of WSO (real world) and even on WSO, most people don't give a shit how prestigious a company you work for is...the sooner you mature and get over that the better. If you actually enjoy your work and you want to continue working at top shops because you like the culture / environment / whatever, then nothing wrong with that. Just let go of the prestige card...it's pretentious and sad.
I think everyone does some of that to some extent. Older, wiser people have learned to do it less. Of course, everyone has a lot of work to do on getting wiser- when we're 22, we're the Oracle of Delphi, when we're 25, we turn into total fools.
Life is a search for meaning and self-worth. It's a lot easier to find it when you're not obsessed with prestige.
Work hard, play hard.
Yes it's easy to realize that
Yes it's easy to realize that prestige is overrated but it's not like you can help it. Most people who care about prestige are fairly driven people in the first place. They try very hard during high school and do well academically to get into a good college. By this time the people you hang out with and associate it are also likely overachievers so naturally you all go to top colleges. In college you maintain this mentality and realize you want to go into finance. Everyone else wants to go into finance and since you are driven you want to go the best place. You want to go to a bulge bracket because everyone else is going and you don't want to be viewed as a failure. When you're at Goldman everyone wants KKR, so you want it to... and the cycle continues. Basically your friends/coworkers all desire the same thing which makes you desire it. If all your college buddies went to top banks and you went to a no-name place or couldn't land a job (because you didn't care about prestige) would you be happy about it?
Not saying I disagree with your sentiment but it's a lot harder to just say "Yeah I don't care about prestige anymore."
Also I don't think wanting to go to KKR -> HBS is a sign of being a prestige whore; just that you're very driven. If you had a Harvard undergrad and simply wanted the pedigree of HBS then there may be something wrong, but if you want to go to a PE shop or Bschool it makes sense to try to go the top. As long as your mentality isnt KKR/HBS or depression then you're fine.
interpret as you
clownfish wrote: interpret as
I think if you make $19k one
Very thoughtful post. It's
Dude, jjc, relax man. You
Work hard, play hard.
IlliniProgrammer wrote: Dude,
penn is nowhere near HYP
Quote: penn is nowhere near
Work hard, play hard.
I think this thread is
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Guide to Finance Interviews
Banking Resume
For IP Completeness, we also
Work hard, play hard.
I've liked the Penn/Wharton
IlliniProgrammer
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
Why settle for Andover and
BTW, JJC, I don't mean to rag
Work hard, play hard.
Guys, happiness is not the
Lol, hes bitter about going
hey finally an interesting
its because he is a Godless
Guest1655 wrote: hey finally
blastoise wrote: Guest1655
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
IlliniProgrammer
chewingum
Am I the only one that finds
chewingum wrote: I find that
Work hard, play hard.
tireds wrote: Am I the only
Why would you ever want a
Great post! Motivate me to
DashaandSafin wrote: Why
Guest1655
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
IlliniProgrammer wrote: BTW,
More is good, all is better
Argonaut
If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford
happypantsmcgee
More is good, all is better
IlliniProgrammer wrote: I
More is good, all is better
Argonaut
easy to get in hard to get