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Wall Street Oasis » Forums » Monkeying Around
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Vilification of Young Wall-Streeters
 

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Billy Ray Valentine's picture
Billy Ray Valentine
      O
 
 
(King Kong, 1,122
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 1:40pm
vilification of wall street.jpg

So, I haven't posted here in a while, but I wanted to take a quick second on this dreary morning of the unofficial start to the NYC summer to write about
the vilification of young finance professionals in the minds of those outside the industry.
This story really has no goal, I am just looking to start an open discussion I guess. It comes as a result of two unrelated experiences.

First is my recent experience with my extended family. While you would think these people would be supportive of me and my career, the "liberal" side of my family sees me as no different than the Raj's of the world. They think my job involves nothing more than "manipulating money" (a direct quote) and reaping gains while not actually contributing anything to society.

This is interesting as it comes from people who complain about their inability to get a loan for their business, and I am currently working at a leveraged loan shop, evaluating and loaning millions of dollars to businesses in need of capital... But I guess I'm just pushing buttons and manipulating money.

The second experience (and the one that inspired this post) occurred around 1am at a bar last night/this morning. I was enjoying myself, sipping my beer, having a nice conversation and entertaining a lovely young lady at the bar. Everything was going well, making the normal small talk, until we get to the "what do you do for a living" question. Casually, I say that I work in finance, not trying to bore her with the details (maybe I should have...). Instant turn off. I may as well just told her I have syphilis and murdered puppies for a living. WTF? It used to be great to be in finance; now, I would probably be better off saying I have a G.E.D. and work as a garbage man.

I guess my point is this: Finance used to be respected. Those in the industry were seen as smart, driven, hard-working, successful individuals. Most of us (I think) still fit this description; however, due to the actions of a few we are seen as second-class douche bags. I think my family may give my cousin the waiter more respect for what he is doing than me for what I am doing.

But let me say this, I know how hard I worked to get where I am today and how hard I work at work every day. Those who aren’t in the industry, or don’t know me, don’t get it, and it sucks. They think I am nothing more than a monkey that works 100-hours per week (sorry if you do, put in your time, it won’t be like that forever) contributing nothing to society. As I sit here and prepare to blow out of my office at 11am to start my summer, I say… f*** ‘em all, and just hope that eventually the stigma wears off. Happy Memorial Day weekend monkeys…

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Tags:
  • wall street
  • bankers
  • Monkeying Around
Nabooru's picture

Yeah man, it's "cool" to hate

Nabooru
     
 
(Gorilla, 689
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 8:46am

Yeah man, it's "cool" to hate on finance these days, and ironically the vast majority of the people who do know nothing about it. Fuck em all, man. Fuck em all. The judgment you were receiving is a reflection of them, not you.

Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

One less reason to go into

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:10am

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Work hard, play hard.

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CoochieMane's picture

Next time somebody tries to

CoochieMane
     
 
(Senior Baboon, 198
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:15am

Next time somebody tries to ream you out for being a financebro, just take your wad of 100s and make it rain all over him/her.

Example:

http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/165248-1/Keffiyeh_thr...

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Falcon's picture

You'll be hearing that a lot

Falcon
      CF
 
(Gorilla, 512
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:15am

You'll be hearing that a lot more OP.

My brother has told me, whenever people ask you what you do in the future and you're working in finance, just say you're a Loan Officer.

Just a sophomore looking for an opportunity to start up this dream of mine.

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SirBarney's picture

IlliniProgrammer: One less

SirBarney
      O
 
(Gorilla, 505
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:15am
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

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TNA's picture

Who cares what other people

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:23am

Who cares what other people think. I will never understand this crap. If someone gives you shit about what you do just walk away from them. Not only are the uninformed, but they are rude and ignorant. Try and not lower yourself by hanging around people with so little class.

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808's picture

Take comfort in the fact that

808
      CF
 
 
(Gorilla, 617
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:30am

Take comfort in the fact that it's their stupidity, not anything that you've done. It doesn't have anything to do with Raj and his ilk - people like them have been around since the beginning. It has never stopped, it never will, and it's not something unique to finance. There is just as much fraud (if not more) in the medical profession, or any other profession, so don't find yourself apologizing for your industry because of them. I know it's tough when it's family, but the sad fact is most people are stupid and gullible.

As for your girl problems, isn't that a nice screening method? Do you really want to be with a girl that stupid? Regardless, never tell a girl you work in finance (or IT/accounting/law/whatever sector you work in). Unless you're a psychic detective, bounty hunter, or other profession which by its very name is awesome, always take the essence of your job and explain in simplest terms why you add value, which makes anything sound much cooler. E.g. "What I do is pretty complex, but here's the deal. Right now, our economy is having a hard time getting off the ground because business owners can't get the money they need to grow and hire people. My job is to find a way to responsibly get millions of dollars to these businesses so they can grow, and so people can feed their families."

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/big-4-accounting
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/entrepreneur

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holla_back's picture

SirBarney: IlliniProgrammer

holla_back
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,121
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:30am
SirBarney:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

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SirBarney's picture

holla_back: SirBarney: Il

SirBarney
      O
 
(Gorilla, 505
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:36am
holla_back:
SirBarney:
IlliniProgrammer:

One less reason to go into finance besides simply doing it because you enjoy it.

When folks outside the industry ask me what I do, I say I'm a programmer.

Seeing as how I'm a current CS major, that too has gotten me a wide range of responses. But the best one has to be when you're chatting up some girl and lay that bomb down and they can't believe you're not a complete nerd/introvert.

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Definitely did not mean to imply that, I was implying how CS has a pretty bad stereotype of programmers being nerdy/introverted/shy/weird

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rufiolove's picture

holla_back: "Lay that bomb

rufiolove
      IB
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,408
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:42am
holla_back:

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Spoken like a true douche bag. Apparently the gist of the post went completely over your head.

1/2 of the WSO Bash Brothers
"Licensed to Ill It"
We all know Bro J did it...

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holla_back's picture

rufiolove: holla_back: "Lay

holla_back
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,121
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 9:49am
rufiolove:
holla_back:

"Lay that bomb down?"

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

Spoken like a true douche bag. Apparently the gist of the post went completely over your head.

How am I speaking like a douchebag? I certainly don't brag about being an engineer.

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UFOinsider's picture

/commeceRant I'm just a dude

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,347
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:10am

/commeceRant
I'm just a dude with a job, and have no use for anyone that needs to drag their worldview into everything all the time. My liberal relatives have their 401K in my company, so I kinda chuckled when I learned that. It also helps that my bank didn't take any government money, so there's that. I've gone to the bar and hung out with OWS people, just to hear what they have to say. Some were cool people with good points. Some were jerks: one guy started getting rude about how 'corporations are evil and so am I', so I stood up on the table and shouted "YEAH MOTHERFUCKER I OPPRESS YOU NOW LET'S DO ANOTHER SHOT"....true story.
/endRant

This is just a job. My understanding of people that judge you by your profession is that they're not worth knowing. If someone is cool, great, if not, screw 'em.

Just do your thing.

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

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Maximus Decimus Meridius's picture

Totally see where you're

Maximus Decimus...
      ST
 
 
(Gorilla, 631
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:07am

Totally see where you're coming from. I don't care about what people do for a living, I value other things. And I don't really respect people who put a lot of importance on job title.
BTW, I think the stigma will remain, we are entering the "Evil professions" club. I hear it was founded by lawyers.

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happyhippo's picture

Lol. I love the responses to

happyhippo
     
 
(Monkey, 39
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:14am

Lol. I love the responses to this thread. Essentially, "Fuck them, it's because they are stupid." Typical WSO.

But here's a thread called "Do you care about your 'value-add' to society". I think many of the responses speak for themselves.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/do-you-care-...

And here's one where the WSO members "vomit" after reading Robert Shiller's speech telling young financiers that they play an important role and should use that role to make the world a better place.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/my-speech-to...

You complain that now people look at financiers as second-class douchebags. I disagree, I believe they are seen as first class douchebags and that is certainly how they behave on this site; if that's any indication of the people going into finance. The site is divided into Targets and non-targets for crying out loud, think about that stratification.

You're crying because you want respect, stop being a b*tch and do what you need/want to do. You don't need to create a thread on a Wall Street forum to try and justify your worth and morality (the two reasons wall street is being vilified). Many of the young financiers on this website have demonstrated they lack either quality, if you have them, demonstrate it yourself because very few going into finance are going to demonstrate it for you. Though i have met some fantastic people who work on wall street.

ie, earn your own respect because it certainly isn't going to come from hanging out in this crowd, and deservedly so IMO.

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

holla_back: I think even

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:12am
holla_back:

I think even Illini would admit that being a programmer is a low status job.

I would simply say there is an extremely strong correlation between comp and competence/work ethic for programmers and engineers. And there are programmers who make more than folks on the business side. At the risk of being a smug bastard... nah, I won't go there. :D

Bottom line is that saying "programmer" is a lot more relatable to the average person than "quant".

Work hard, play hard.

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TNA's picture

Whoa, I think I glossed over

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:15am
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melvvvar's picture

lol @ entire thread vilifying

melvvvar
     
 
(King Kong, 1,693
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:17am
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JeremyLinMVP's picture

IlliniProgrammer: One less

JeremyLinMVP
     
 
(Senior Monkey, 99
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:18am
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IlliniProgrammer's picture

TNA: Whoa, I think I glossed

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:19am

Work hard, play hard.

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

JeremyLinMVP: So you seek

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:26am

Work hard, play hard.

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TNA's picture

IlliniProgrammer: TNA: Whoa

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:28am

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TNA's picture

And what is this crap about

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:31am

MSF Website
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holla_back's picture

IlliniProgrammer: 1.) We're

holla_back
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,121
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:32am
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IlliniProgrammer's picture

TNA: I don't know. I've just

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:34am

Work hard, play hard.

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TNA's picture

Not trying to be smug, but

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:40am

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NYU's picture

When my gf's mother who is

NYU
      PE
 
(Baboon, 160
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:43am
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TNA's picture

NYU: When my gf's mother who

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:45am

MSF Website
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IlliniProgrammer's picture

TNA: Either way my entire

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:46am

Work hard, play hard.

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TNA's picture

IlliniProgrammer: TNA: Eith

TNA
      O
 
 
(Human, 13,531
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:50am

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Human's picture

Every time I meet OWS people,

Human
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,891
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:51am

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

If I am at the bar and

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:55am

Work hard, play hard.

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NYU's picture

TNA: NYU: When my gf's

NYU
      PE
 
(Baboon, 160
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:57am
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UFOinsider's picture

happyhippo: "Do you care

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,347
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 11:08am

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

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Chaos2Order's picture

Good piece, Billy Ray. Your

Chaos2Order
      O
 
 
(Senior Monkey, 93
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 10:59am

Chaos2Order = JRE, Ph.D.

View my WSO Blog

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Billy Ray Valentine's picture

Wow, this spiraled a bit out

Billy Ray Valentine
      O
 
 
(King Kong, 1,122
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 11:29am

INTERVIEW GUIDES -- Technical, Fit and Networking... The Biz School Bible and More...

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Bondarb's picture

These are two seperate

Bondarb
      HF
 
 
(Neanderthal, 2,283
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 12:01pm
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WSOusername's picture

Capitalism is the best

WSOusername
     
 
(Senior Gorilla, 950
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 12:15pm

GBS

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rufiolove's picture

Bondarb: These are two

rufiolove
      IB
 
 
(Neanderthal, 3,408
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 12:20pm

1/2 of the WSO Bash Brothers
"Licensed to Ill It"
We all know Bro J did it...

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Thurnis Haley's picture

It's like people complain

Thurnis Haley
     
 
(Orangutan, 367
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 12:22pm
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Disjoint's picture

Hu... Do you you want people

Disjoint
      IB
 
 
(Gorilla, 703
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 1:23pm
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Ravenous's picture

IlliniProgrammer: JeremyLin

Ravenous
      HF
 
 
(King Kong, 1,347
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 1:31pm
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jeffsmonte's picture

Liberalism is a mental

jeffsmonte
     
 
(Baboon, 125
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 1:43pm
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TraderDaily's picture

Yes, the vilification of

TraderDaily
     
 
(King Kong, 1,045
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:03pm
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BTbanker's picture

IlliniProgrammer: One less

BTbanker
      IB
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,336
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:09pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

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TraderDaily's picture

Neurosurgeon ain't cool.

TraderDaily
     
 
(King Kong, 1,045
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:21pm
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UFOinsider's picture

Connor: IlliniProgrammer: O

UFOinsider
      O
 
(Human, 10,347
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:21pm

YOU JUST GOT TROLLED
http://www.troll.me/images/red-foreman322/dont-you...

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IlliniProgrammer's picture

Connor: IlliniProgrammer: O

IlliniProgrammer
      ST
 
 
(Almost Human, 9,244
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:26pm

Work hard, play hard.

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Human's picture

Every time when a girl ask me

Human
      PE
 
 
(King Kong, 1,891
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:29pm

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."

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BTbanker's picture

Human: Every time when a girl

BTbanker
      IB
 
(Senior Neanderthal, 5,336
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:50pm

"A man generally has two reasons for doing anything. One that sounds good, and the real one." - J.P. Morgan

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holla_back's picture

Human: Every time when a girl

holla_back
      O
 
(King Kong, 1,121
 
Points)
 on 5/25/12 at 2:54pm
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The contents of this Web Site, such as text, graphics, images, logos, button icons, software and other items (collectively, "Material"), are protected under both United States and foreign copyright, trademark and other laws. All Material is the property of the Company or its content suppliers or clients. The compilation (meaning the collection, arrangement and assembly) of all content on this Web Site is the exclusive property of the Company and protected by U.S. and international copyright laws. Unauthorized use of the Material may violate copyright, trademark, and other laws. You must retain all copyright, trademark, service-mark and other proprietary notices contained in the original Material on any copy you make of the Material. You may not sell or modify the Material or reproduce, display, publicly perform, distribute, or otherwise use the Material in any way for any public or commercial purpose. The use of the Material on any other web site or in a networked computer environment for any purpose is prohibited.

You shall not copy or adapt the HTML code that the Company creates to generate its pages. It is also protected by the Company?s copyright.

Acceptable Site Use.

General Rules: Users may not use the Web Site in order to transmit, distribute, store or destroy material (a) in violation of any applicable law or regulation, (b) in a manner that will infringe the copyright, trademark, trade secret or other intellectual property rights of others or violate the privacy, publicity or other personal rights of others, or (c) that is defamatory, obscene, threatening, abusive or hateful.

Web Site Security Rules. Users are prohibited from violating or attempting to violate the security of the Web Site, including, without limitation, (a) accessing data not intended for such user or logging into a server or account which the user is not authorized to access, (b) attempting to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of a system or network or to breach security or authentication measures without proper authorization, (c) attempting to interfere with service to any user, host or network, including, without limitation, via means of submitting a virus to the Web Site, overloading, "flooding", "spamming", "mailbombing" or "crashing", (d) sending unsolicited e-mail, including promotions and/or advertising of products or services, or (e) forging any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any e-mail. Violations of system or network security may result in civil or criminal liability. The Company will investigate occurrences which may involve such violations and may involve, and cooperate with, law enforcement authorities in prosecuting users who are involved in such violations.

Specific Prohibited Uses.

The Company specifically prohibits any use of the Web Site, and all users agree not to use the Web Site, for any of the following:

  • Posting any incomplete, false or inaccurate biographical information or information which is not your own accurate resume
  • Using any device, software or routine to interfere or attempt to interfere with the proper working of this Web Site or any activity being conducted on this site.
  • Taking any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on this Web Site?s infrastructure.
  • If you have a password allowing access to a non-public area of this Web Site, disclosing to or sharing your password with any third parties or using your password for any unauthorized purpose.
  • Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained herein, using or attempting to use any engine, software, tool, agent or other device or mechanism (including without limitation browsers, spiders, robots, avatars or intelligent agents) to navigate or search this Web Site other than the search engine and search agents available from the Company on this Web Site and other than generally available third party web browsers (e.g., Netscape Navigator, Microsoft Explorer).
  • Attempting to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software comprising or in any way making up a part of the Web Site.
  • Aggregating, copying or duplicating in any manner any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.
  • Framing of or linking to any of the materials or information available from the Web Site.

User Information.

When you register for the Web Site, you will be asked to provide the Company with certain information including, without limitation, a valid email address (your "Information"). In addition to the terms and conditions that may be set forth in any privacy policy on this Web Site, you understand and agree that the Company may disclose to third parties, on an anonymous basis, certain aggregate information contained in your registration application. The Company reserves the right to offer third party services and products to you based on the preferences that you identify in your registration and at any time thereafter; such offers may be made by the Company or by third parties. Please see the Company's Privacy Policy below for further details regarding your Information.

Registration and Password.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your information and password. You shall be responsible for all uses of your registration, whether or not authorized by you. You agree to immediately notify the Company of any unauthorized use of your registration or password.

The Company's Liability.

As a condition to your use of this site, you release the Company (and our agents and employees) from claims, demands and damages (actual and consequential, direct and indirect) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, suspected and unsuspected, disclosed and undisclosed, arising out of or in any way connected with such disputes. If you are a California resident, you waive California Civil Code d1542, which says: "A general release does not extend to claims which the creditor does not know or suspect to exist in his favor at the time of executing the release, which if known by him must have materially affected his settlement with the debtor."

We are under no legal obligation to, and generally do not, control the information provided by other users which is made available through the Web Site. By its very nature, other people?s information may be offensive, harmful or inaccurate, and in some cases will be mislabeled or deceptively labeled. We expect that you will use caution and common sense when using this Web Site.

The Material may contain inaccuracies or typographical errors. The Company makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness, or timeliness of the Web Site or the Material. The use of the Web Site and the Material is at your own risk. Changes are periodically made to the Web Site and may be made at any time.

You acknowledge and agree that you are solely responsible for the content and accuracy of any resume or material contained therein placed by you on the Web Site and you agree to let any users that are identified as recruiters (designated in the sole discretion of the Company) to have access to your resume.

The Company is not to be considered to be an employer with respect to your use of the Web Site and the Company shall not be responsible for any employment decisions, for whatever reason made, made by any entity posting jobs on the Web Site.

THE COMPANY DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE WEB SITE WILL OPERATE ERROR-FREE OR THAT THE WEB SITE AND ITS SERVER ARE FREE OF COMPUTER VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL MECHANISMS. IF YOUR USE OF THE WEB SITE OR THE MATERIAL RESULTS IN THE NEED FOR SERVICING OR REPLACING EQUIPMENT OR DATA, THE COMPANY IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE COSTS.

THE WEB SITE AND MATERIAL ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND. THE COMPANY, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT. THE COMPANY MAKES NO WARRANTIES ABOUT THE ACCURACY, RELIABILITY, COMPLETENESS, OR TIMELINESS OF THE MATERIAL, SERVICES, SOFTWARE, TEXT, GRAPHICS, AND LINKS.

Disclaimer of Consequential Damages.

IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COMPANY, ITS SUPPLIERS, OR ANY THIRD PARTIES MENTIONED ON THE WEB SITE BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INCIDENTAL AND CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM LOST DATA OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) RESULTING FROM THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE WEB SITE AND THE MATERIAL, WHETHER BASED ON WARRANTY, CONTRACT, TORT, OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY, AND WHETHER OR NOT THE COMPANY IS ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

Links to Other Sites.

The Web Site may contain links to third party web sites. These links are provided solely as a convenience to you and not as an endorsement by the Company of the contents on such third-party Web sites. The Company is not responsible for the content of linked third-party sites and does not make any representations regarding the content or accuracy of materials on such third party Web sites. If you decide to access linked third party Web sites, you do so at your own risk.

No Resale or Unauthorized Commercial Use.

You agree not to resell or assign your rights or obligations under these Term of Use. You also agree not to make any unauthorized commercial use of the Web Site.

Limitation of Liability.

The aggregate liability for the Company to you for all claims arising from the use of the Materials is limited to $1.

Termination.

The Company reserves the right, at its sole discretion, to pursue all of its legal remedies, including but not limited to immediate termination of your registration with or ability to access the Web Site and/or any other service provided to you by the Company, upon any breach by you of these Terms and Conditions or if the Company is unable to verify or authenticate any information you submit to the Web Site registration with or ability to access the Web Site.

Indemnity.

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the Company, its officers, directors, employees and agents, from and against any claims, actions or demands, including without limitation reasonable legal and accounting fees, alleging or resulting from your use of the Material or your breach of the terms of these Terms and Conditions. The Company shall provide notice to you promptly of any such claim, suit, or proceeding and shall assist you, at your expense, in defending any such claim, suit or proceeding.

General.

The Company makes no claims that the Materials may be lawfully viewed or downloaded outside of the United States. Access to the Materials may not be legal by certain persons or in certain countries. If you access the Web Site from outside of the United States, you do so at your own risk and are responsible for compliance with the laws of your jurisdiction. These Terms and conditions are governed by the internal substantive laws of the State of New York, without respect to its conflict of laws principles. Jurisdiction for any claims arising under this agreement shall lie exclusively with the state or federal courts within New York, New York. If any provision of these Terms and Conditions are found to be invalid by any court having competent jurisdiction, the invalidity of such provision shall not affect the validity of the remaining provisions of these Terms and Conditions, which shall remain in full force and effect. No waiver of any term of these Terms and Conditions shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term. Except as expressly provided in additional terms of use for areas of the Web Site a particular "Legal Notice," or Software License or Material on particular Web pages, these Terms and Conditions constitute the entire agreement between you and the Company with respect to the use of Web Site. No changes to these Terms and Conditions shall be made except by a revised posting on this page.

PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

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