Do you curse at your job? Honestly, I've always thought that a rhetorical question mainly because cursing is so prevalent in our culture that I assumed it rolled straight over into your job. Then I hit finance, and realized that I was a totally amateur when it came to cursing. Maybe it's just the ethos here on the desk, or finance in general, but cursing is everywhere. I mean everywhere. I can't speak for banking or anything else, but I'd bet it's much the same.
About 54 percent of men nationwide report swearing, compared with 47 percent of women. Employees aged 35 to 44 swear the most (58 percent) and those aged 18 to 24 the least (42 percent). One explanation for the generation gap is that people in junior positions are less willing to swear in front of their bosses, while senior staffers may feel more entitled to mouth off.
I'm more curious as to why Finance seems to buck the trend when it comes to professional language in the workplace. Shit, the MD's here write emails that are the equivalent of a 13 year old's text message. R u DN TRD YT. Come c me pls. I just don't get it. Maybe my experience is an aberration, but I'm betting it isn't. Are there just too many type A personalities in one confined space that professionalism goes out the window? More importantly, would you fear being fired for cursing too much?
I have no problem with cursing at work. I can't even tell how many times I've said 'Fuck off' to other traders during a normal day. Guess it comes down to the fact that a deviation on the fourth decimal means +/- a few thousand.
Very prevalent, but as with anything it's good to feel the culture out to see what's tolerated then adapt. And I'm pretty sure MD's write like that because they couldn't give a shit. I mean if I was in that position, I wouldn't either.
All day, every day.
i work in F500. my boss and senior analyst are women in their late thirties with kids, so no. i also work closely with our finance and engineering teams in Utah, and i don't think these people have ever sworn in their lives. so no... i rarely swear at work.
depends on the desk culture. i think cursing is the only way to communicate on some trading desks. this is normal for trading because if you screw up, you lose money.
Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1.
ish happens.
I have an affinity for cursing to begin with, but around here it gets pretty bad. I think the reasoning is that we're in a high stress environment and we just need the goddamn information from you, so say the thing in as simple of language as humanly possible, and a lot of the time that means going right to the least common denominator - cursing.
Perfect example - I'm at my desk right now and I have some notes here jotted down from an important call I had yesterday with an exec at a company I'm looking at. So this guy's time is limited and I want him to talk as much as possible so I can get a candid look at wtf is going on, so my notes are quick and to the point... here's a look at some bullet points, and these are verbatim:
-if ur systm fails -> FUCKD -says ceo is pussy & no1 gets options -no source of entrpnrl drive
So that gives you an idea I guess... and that translates to when I'm trying to pitch or if someone is pitching a business to me. I just want to know the answers, I want to tell you what you did wrong, and I want things clarified as quickly as possible. Cursing is a way to emphasize that urgency I think. "It's a clusterfuck" works a lot better than explaining the intricacies of why it's a very disorganized company. It's just a better form of communication when all you want is a straight answer or a clear request.
lol when i get frustrated at modeling some company, i'll save the excel file as FUCK YOU. then change it later to the real company name and date. Think it sort of helps get rid of some of the stress, like when you yell "FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK."
There is absolutely no cursing on a trading floor
I swear often, but rarely aggressively. I simply wouldn't trust a person who doesn't occasionally swear.
When I was in banking it was hugely prevelant. We had an analyst who honestly, every other word out of his mouth was fuck.
Since moving into corp dev I curse less but still do a lot - but others don't so I do feel concious of it.
I think there's a bit of a Wall St vs Main St divide on cursing.
'Fuck' was a curse?
Everyone I work with curses alot. I'm going to say that fuck is the most commonly used word in the office...literally. I've heard some pretty out of control statements on my desk. Sexism, racism, vulgar jokes....it pretty much never stops. I don't really participate beyond the regular cursing...never know when that shit can come back to bite you in the ass. There are some other divisions within earshot of the institutional S&T desk...
Since I've worked at my current job, I curse so much my girl gives me endless shit about it. Whatever though, fuck it.
edit - I agree with the comment below, our MD says the most obscene shit I've ever heard come out of another humans mouth. Most of it's pretty funny.
MD's set the tone. 3/4 of mine do not curse at all so not too much cursing occurs in my team. I've never heard the F word used even once.
The less dramatic words get expressed once or twice a day though and nobody really cares.
All day everyday.
I immediately thought of the human piranha in Liar's Poker.
People swear left and right at my bank. It's enough that you stop really noticing it and start dropping casual swear words without really thinking about it.
Side note, I think it's funny and I've totally noticed how MDs type things like "u" "2" "c" and "thx". You'd think stuff like that would be associated with younger people but I've never seen anyone at the analyst or associate level do it without exception of "u".
I love this shit... getting an email from your boss who's worth 9 or 10 figures in a down economy that says "send that 2 me b4 u leave, i wanna read it while @ dinner w/ my wife LOL, k thx" makes me shit myself every time.
I frequently say "fuck" but almost never say "son of a bitch", for what it's worth...too many women around.
All day erryday
no cursing in f500.
First day of my internship, I'm waiting for my MD to finish up a conference call with a client and he ends the phone call with "Fix your fucking financials!" and hangs up.
I do not partake, but sometimes to get the true effect, a curse word (or two) cuts through and gets the extra 'umph' needed to convey the unspoken part of the spoken (or written) message.
.
Quick HR issue - Goldman Sachs profanity (Originally Posted: 06/28/2016)
I am a summer analyst at GS and slipped up and swore in a chat.
Not swearing against anyone - but said it as a filler. What are the consequences of this?
Termination and potential blacklisting from FINRA. Listen kiddo, we're trying to run a clean shop here in the finance industry and we don't need any noob sullying our sterling reputation with an off-handed expletive.
This username is perfect for this reply
Given that several conversations I had about banking early on in my career specifically referenced how frequently people curse at frustrating aspects of the job, don't worry about it.
You haven't lived until you call a client a twat.
Why are you asking us? Either your manager or HR will say "don't do that" or they won't. You'll find out shortly.
Good call summoning the human resource flunkies here on WSO. It's likely you'll be fired, blacklisted, and disowned from your family. If you're lucky you'll be deported to a place like Haiti or Cuba where you can find work as a male escort, servicing men. If you're not lucky, you'll likely be throw out into the street via bums' rush and repeatedly run over by a taxi driven by an illegal Somalian. They wouldn't dare use a black car on scum like you.
I got my banking job through servicing MDs, so I'm glad I'll be able to transfer some of my skill set if I get deported.
Was in your shoes last year. Had a buddy who did the same thing habitually. On one occasion, whatever word he used was flagged by HCM, they called him and told him not to do it again. Just remember that when you are freaking out like this it's usually not as bad as you think.
Thanks for the reassurance - do you know if anyone on my team will be informed? Or if it will stay only with HCM?
You're tripping
naked shame walk through the GS cafeteria. shame. shame. shame.
Just email them "I'll take care of this"
You...did...what?!
OMG SEXIST RACIST HITLER #FireAmaze OPPRESSION
GET THE TWITTER BRIGADE, WE NEED A LYNCH MOB FOR THIS ANGRY WHITE MALE MAKING A HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT FOR POOR DOWNTRODDEN WOMYN IN THE WORKPLACE
Given the monkey shit, I figure for the humor-impaired that I should point out that this was pure sarcasm and that I find the Twitter social justice squad to be laughable
OP you're fine, nobody gives a fuck about profanity
You'll be added to Jeb Bush's blacklist when he makes his comeback, gosh darnit
There could be serious consequences if the situation is not handled properly.
I spotted a first-year analyst dressed in top-down denim on casual Friday. Being an intern, I had plenty of time to review our company guidelines and it clearly states that denim is prohibited.
I reported the individual to HR and phoned the local authorities. My best bet for you is to file for insanity and plead the 5th until your father can put you in touch with your family attorney.
Godspeed.
I would say ritualistic Japanese suicide would go a long way to restoring your tarnished honor. It might be best if you do it via video chat with the same people who witnessed your disgrace. I hear sepuku makes for a wonderful cinematic experience.
+1 SB, too funny
Quick lesson for you: Whoever drops the first f-bomb in a meeting takes control of the meeting. Doesn't matter if it's with clients, bankers, or lawyers. Can't be gratuitous, of course, but don't wait too long.
no consequence, unless you do it multiple times & then you're manager is told of this. they usually laugh it off..
Cursing At Work Good For You (Originally Posted: 03/22/2012)
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-20/news/31213141_1_swearing… http://www.forbes.com/sites/seanstonefield/2011/06/10/does-swearing-at-…What do you think? Is dropping F-Bombs good for morale and getting work done?
Are there any policies at your workplace preventing you from cursing?
I don't know about the research, but swearing certainly makes me feel better sometimes.
Fuck swearing, anyone who does that is a little bitch ass pussy
I don't know how much I trust this. East Anglia was the university that had the scandal where they were tampering with climate data to make it look worse than it is.
Swearing is great and I thought that might be the case just by observation.
That said, you have to be careful. I worked in a very blue collar job for a while and I've had to work really hard to done down my language. If you get into the habit of dropping f-bombs left and right, you're going to start doing it in front of the wrong people, at the wrong time, in the wrong place, etc.
That said, if you're stuck in the office til 4 am... YOU'RE FUCKING STUCK IN THE OFFICE TIL 4AM.
I swear at my job with my co-workers ALL the time. Almost every sentence at my workplace has "fuck" or "shit" in it.
Do I think swearing has helped to build comfort and camaraderie among my team? Absolutely.
/\ this...theres no reason to put on an act of "high class" or being "better" because of your language
This whole "Swearing is impolite and politically incorrect," "every kid who plays should get a trophy," "we need to hire women and minorities so that we don't look like we are showing favoritism to white males" bullshit is just fueling the pussification of America. We see it in our politicians and our leaders and look where it gets us. We should hire women and minorities because they are the best candidate for the job but we shouldn't have policies in place with quotas. We should give kids trophies for kicking shit out of other kids in soccer and for being the best and dominating, not because they showed up.
Do you think our forefathers were the type of pussy ass bitches who would go to the King of England and be like, you are absolutely correct your highness, excellent point? Fuck that shit, they said "I'm the fuck out of here, fuck your bullshit I'm gonna go start my own country that's totally fucking bad ass and way more awesome than your pussy shit."
You want to be like Kenny Powers, the guy who throws the ball faster than fuck... you don't want to be the mousey little Dad with a polo tucked into his dockers telling his kids that losers deserve trophies... when that happens kids don't learn how to lose properly and we wind up with a whole host of problems.
I would love to see some whiny little bitch take the counter side of this argument, would be quite entertaining.
SB'd
We shall see.
Fuck Ivan.
Kenny Gang Or Die.
Vulgarity is not welcome at DB (Originally Posted: 05/24/2014)
Colin Fan, the co-head of the German investment bank, is not happy with employees being boastful and vulgar. Here is the video that was distributed to DB employees: http://video.ft.com/v/3570000699001
Not sure why, but I lol'ed. Thoughts?
Fuck DB.
Guess we're back in 2nd grade ladies and gentlemen
"Colin Fan, Deutsche Bank's co-head of investment banking, sends an internal message to traders"
Why the fuck would the IBD co-head be worried about traders?
I mean cursing isn't exactly professional, but neither is acting like a child and sending out an email to adults not to swear. Like dude, you might have more important shit to worry about.
Did anyone else feel like he was threatening to call the Yakuza on you if you don't stop cursing?
Uh oh, he doesn't "like" that.....
Ahhh. WSO. Not being able to see the forest for the trees since 2007.
Jesus guys, are we really arguing about this senior guys title? Point is he sent a silly email admonishing people about their language.
Where to start with this one? I think the Dealbreaker commentariat pretty much covered it all but there are a few remaining bones to pick. For starters, I was not aware of an established code of conduct across media that didn't exist a short while ago. And if they're worried about being investigated, how about they start with something just a tad more substantial, hmmmmm, how to say this best? I can only quote Jim Carey in Liar Liar, STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLES! I turn this over to professor Carlin:
I dont see anything silly about this...unfortunately its 2014 and people sending emails with inapropriate language are putting the firm at very real financial risk. That is all he is saying and unfortunately it's true. People should really e careful about this and im quite sure that he is going to fire a few people to make the point...curse all day long if you want but do not write it in an email.
I'm guessing he's worried about the next scandal similar to LIBOR etc. where this talk about raping clients will become evidence lol
Also reminds me of this:
//www.youtube.com/embed/hQ7lIRvb4-g
//www.youtube.com/embed/P3pmwrtlDaY
My favorite South Park scene, except maybe the Scott Tenorman must die episode.
i lawl'ed. can't believe he actually recorded a video...
I like his hairdo.
I would've cracked up if I had to record a video like that... "hahah guys, jokes on you"
Wow. Guys this is all part of a big push at DB (and other banks) to have people NOT act like assholes and douchebags. If anyone would read the articles this is about respect and being an adult.
From the comments above being told to treat people with respect and that maybe there are people who don't like the "good natured ribbing and ribaldry" is a bad idea.
This is not some silly email sent around. There are a legit series of videos and talks being held at all levels of DB about this stuff.
dude looks like a father fucking retard
Not just any mind you, I haven't heard father used as a prefix for a while.
I just love this stuff, the best part is when he is saying "I am losing patience", lol....I am terrified....
Isn't this supposed to be the role of compliance? Why they getting the Co-Head to say this? Not enough people taking compliance seriously?
I suppose getting treated like a child is better than news about layoffs or rainmakers jumping ship.
Seriously? Acting like an arrogant idiot and writing vulgarity in emails is acting like a child. In what world is acting like an unprofessional jackass IN PUBLIC acting like an adult? If employees are going to act like they're junior high school boys then they should be treated like it.
This brings back memories of an old head of IBD where I used to work. His standard response to slightly silly investment proposal was something like "For fuck's sake! We're going to lose our fucking money if we doing this fucking deal. What the fuck's going on here guys?". I can picture him doing this sort of video as a joke for a conference.
Wish there was another video on the traders' reactions to this.
I don't think it's the message so much as the production values.
the fact a BB like DB needs to put out such a silly video says a lot....
Bankers and traders have a terrible rep among the general population. I feel that this video is more aimed at showing the world that DB wants to be a respectable bank with respectable people, rather the stereotypical loud-mouthed vulgar bankers.
What happened?
I basically heard: "You guys are a bunch of douches, who need to simmer down."
So glad that I worked on Wall St while it was still fun
Snore. All he means is; Don't get caught. Seen it some many times at differnet places; don't fuck clients and don'tfuck the company.
Investment banking will soon only be populated by Quakers & teetotalers
@bondarb Definitely true. I mean, I had my emails read in Congress. Think about that for a minute.
I have no problem with what Mr. Fan did. In every other professional services firm on Earth lack of professionalism, boasting, and vulgarity are frowned upon. At my bank sending out unprofessional emails or using vulgarity in emails or with customers is completely out of line, as it is in pretty much every other company in the world.
Stuff like this makes me very uncomfortable communicating openly via email/lync chat at work. I still do, but the amount of scrutiny and surveillance is ridiculous but it's still frustrating that telling another manager that "some shithead" who is the son of your Director showed up late or something can become a fireable offense.
Come on. This guy's video is a laugh.
It's definitely a funny video but I can't say I blame the guy - he's covering his ass. Because when one of his traders does something stupid and they haul their asses in before congress to have a hearing, you know they're going to go through every email the bank sent in the last decade and cream themselves when they find one with vulgarity in it. Then he'll have to sit there as head of the IB while some crusty poltican looking to earn tough guy points for yelling at a banker, reads the emails back to him infront of congress. Then he'll be asked why he allowed such a reckless culture to exist at DB. Now at least he can point to this cheesy video.
Fuck me, looks like a fun place to work.
I can definitely see Mr. Fan backhanding an unruly analyst.
I thought it was awesome. He's basically saying "Hey fucktards stop saying stupid shit in writing that is going to get us in trouble down the line." He's not saying no cussing in the office. He's right because it should be obvious by now that at one point or another emails will be read in congress or leak to the media and stuff boasting about how much $$ they are making or how stupid clients/main street are should not be written down.
I used to get pissed because this analyst would always IM stupid shit to me (talking shit on MDs for example) that I feared would get me in trouble, I would never respond in a way that would get me in trouble if read. Lots of people are idiots and things need to spelled out for them no matter what college they went to or how fast they can model in excel.
Aaaaaaaaah, the return of the F Bomb. My dear old friend… (Originally Posted: 03/17/2009)
One of the many affects that the current state of what used be our economy has had on people is a sharp increase in swearing
(fantastic news for Turrets sufferers everywhere). According to a recent article, Americans are once again embracing the F bomb, particularly whenever they take a peek at their 401K balance. Yes – they have actually done research on this, complete with “field studies” and interviews with everyday cursers and even a so-called “swearing expert”.
The study found that folks who partake in swearing do so about 80-90 times a day (no fucking way), and that number goes up during tough times (no shit, Sherlock). There are also some fantastic suggestions for ways to release stress without cussing, such as playing the piano and knitting. I don’t know about you, but nothing calms me down in the heat of the moment like a good pair of knitting needles. Of course, they’d probably be sticking out of someone’s eye sockets, but I digress.
The good news is, apparently using expletives is good for you. It diffuses anger and releases tension. So, by all means, cuss away. Oh, and go fuck yourself. Damn, I’m feeling better already.
what the fuck is the purpose of this post?
affluenza, will you ever say Hi to me?
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