In Response to “20 Things 20-Year-Olds Don't Get”

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Mod Note (Andy): #TBT Throwback Thursday - this was originally posted on 9/15/13. To see all of our top content from the past, click here.

Jason Nazar, a contributing writer for Forbes, wrote a column last month detailing the "20 Things 20-Year-Olds Don't Get." (Read Here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonnazar/2013/07/23/...) I'm sure everyone around my age appreciated the condescending and generalizing advice, because of course, as a generation, we are not only all identical but also collectively "just don't get it."

So, I decided I'm going to go through his list and respond, piece by piece. Is some of this bitter? Impractical? Whiny? Antagonistic? Sure. Does it apply to every boss or career? Of course not. But if a contributing writer for Forbes can make sweeping generations about an entire group of people, you better believe a contributing writer for Post Grad Problems and Wall Street Oasis can.

Time is Not a Limitless Commodity

Trust me, olds, you're preaching to the choir. When you insist on us doing a task in the least efficient way possible because you either don't understand a better way to do it or simply don't care, it is an incredible waste of time.

You're Talented, But Talent is Overrated

It's funny you recognize my talent, because what I've realized in my time in the real world is how remarkably untalented a lot of the managers are. Similar to how I thought my parents were infallible as a child and realizing that they're real people who make real mistakes, I always thought professionals were at the top of their game. How wrong I was.

We're More Productive in the Morning

Who is "we?" Now you're not only generalizing my generation by your own? I have bosses that are definitely morning people and bosses that are definitely evening people. Who cares when work gets done as long as it is done on time and done in the best way possible.

Social Media is Not a Career

No shit. However it does exist, and being against it just makes you seem even more old-fashioned than you already are. Just because you saw some horror story on 60 minutes of a teacher embarrassing her school by twerking or a job applicant getting caught making fun of his interviewers on twitter does not mean that we all are socially retarded. Trust me, those of us worth hiring know how to put our stuff on lockdown.

Also, being active on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, or whatever else is incredibly good for both the company and individuals as it allows you to shape and monitor the discussion on your brand. Not to mention that in a truly global economy, you're not going to find all of your clients via a phone call or by bumping into them at the grocery store.

Pick Up the Phone

I know this is directed at my generation needed to make some cold calls and not just send out cold emails, and that's a fair point, but you Boomers need to get over the fact that we are "always on our cell phones." Sure, sometimes we're swiping people right and left on tinder (There's a guy in your profile pic? Left. You know what I'm after.) but we can also be incredibly effective. We can see a breaking news story about a client on twitter, open the story with Safari, share it via email, and call those people it effects in a matter of seconds from the palm of our hands. Oh, and it doesn't take us an hour to type out that email either. Respect the power.

Be the First In & Last to Leave

We get it - face time is important. However, I hope you get that this obsession with being in the office to do work has been dying for quite some time. We know about it. Chances are we have friends that work in those rolls. Don't think we wouldn't jump for a chance to do the exact same thing we are doing now in our pajamas from our couch or in jeans at a coffee shop. Laptops and cell phones have existed for years.

Don't Wait to Be Told What to Do

Oh really? Because when we take initiative usually we get told we're doing something wrong, or doing something that isn't our job, or "thinking we're more important than what we are." Chances are, if you are a millennial in the workforce, you have easily identified something that could be improved. Easily. For all of our faults, we have no patience at all with inefficiency and quickly find ways to improve it. We are also "a generation of overachievers" and are "always looking to do something to get that coveted gold star" so tell us what to do every now and then! When you're young or new, direction isn't a bad thing. That is literally your job, boss. Do it.

Take Responsibility for Your Mistakes

It would be easier if we weren't demonized for mistakes. We're "not a generation used to failure," so this is hard enough already, but when some dickhead is raging about something that ultimately was never that big of a deal, how likely do you think it is that we're going to fall on the sword for it? If you want a positive work environment, make one that embraces mistakes and allows you to learn from them, not just take the hit for it.

You Should Be Getting Your Butt Kicked

Listen, we're a generation that went to school full time, played a sport or two after school, then practiced and instrument, then did more homework than any generation before us. We're used to this shit and have caffeine or Adderall addictions to back it up. In fact, chances are we can handle way more than you think we can and would love the opportunity to do something meaningful for a change. You say that Meryl Streep in "Devil Wears Prada" is the best boss you could work for. You know why that movie was written? Because she's a horrible fucking boss. That's the entire point of the movie. They literally call her "the Devil" in the title.

A New Job a Year Isn't a Good Thing

Maybe not, but neither is staying in a shit job that either doesn't pay, doesn't give you valuable skills, or is just generally miserable. When you're young, job hopping happens, especially in this day an age, and any sense of "25 years at the same company to retire with a pension" is long gone. If you're not going to give us the opportunity to succeed, do something meaningful, make money, or whatever else we value most, we're gone, and it's costing you on average $25,000 for the turnover. Sucks to be you, shit boss.

People Matter More Than Perks

You know what you can't pay bills with? A good office culture. Yes, it is good to have people around you at work you can be friends with. Yes, it is nice to have a boss who isn't a shitbag. (I wouldn't know). But really, if I can get comped dinners on Seamless, a bigger year end bonus, the ability to work from home, or whatever else I want, that's going to take priority. I have friends already.

Map Effort to Your Professional Gain

The advice given for this one is to "connect what you're doing to day with where you want to be tomorrow." Of course, the problem is that so many of us here are doing something that only marginally, if at all, related to what we want to do tomorrow. While there's value in finding relevance and crafting a good story for the future through your current experience, there's also value in getting the fuck out when you get a chance and doing something you actually want to do.

Speak Up, Not Out

We are not a "generation of shit talkers," or at least not at the office. You know who I hear talking shit? Boomer secretaries. Boomer office managers. Boomer VP's about other VP's. Also, if I've learned anything, it is that "if you have a problem with management, culture, or your role and responsibilities" it is much better to just keep your mouth shut about it. Is that a good office culture? Is that how it should be? No, of course not, but who says you're going to be working in an office with a good, open environment? Thanks for that, Boomers.

You HAVE to Build Your Technical Chops

This is a joke right? Minus some experienced junior bankers schooling me at Excel, I'm going to make another sweeping generation (this is fun) and say that our generation runs laps around yours, olds, when it comes to technical ability. Bring it.

Both the Size and Quality of Your Network Matter

No shit. There is not a person in business who doesn't understand "it's who you know" that matters.

You Need At Least 3 Professional Mentors

Really? If I only have 2 I'm screwed then? I'm not sure there are three people at my company that I would even want as a mentor. Listen, mentors are both important and invaluable, and there are people who have helped me get where I am now and there are people who will help me get to where I'm going, but just like how this list is looking more and more arbitrary when it comes to numbers (see the last "point), the suggestion that there is some number you have to meet is ridiculous. One mentor, if good, can change everything. Seven mentors, if awful, can do effectively nothing.

Pick an Idol & Act "As If"

Someone's been watching Boiler Room. Knowing a successful person's path is incredibly informative, and watching how a successful person operates can be very helpful too, but no two people are the same. This person who you idolize probably has different strengths, different weaknesses, and came up in a different time. It's better to find what makes YOU successful, not try to act like someone you're not. Also, if you go around wearing French cuffs, a Hermes tie, and suspenders in your entry level job because your idol wears them, you're still going to get ridiculed. If you roll around in a Porsche 911 and then eat ramen every night because you can't afford food with the payments, you're still going to get ridiculed.

Read More Books, Fewer Tweets/Texts

Starting either/or arguments is an effective way to get no one to take you seriously. I read more than most people I know, tweet more than almost everyone I know, and text more than most people I know. I can listen to classical music while browsing facebook, study advanced topics while texting a girl, There isn't some either/or cultural divide between the exalted ones who READ BOOKS and the idiots who read phones.

Spend 25% Less Than You Make

Sage advice, along with save at least 10% of what you make, but we're living in a time of unmatched student debt, where a lot of people in their 20's can't even afford to live on their own, let alone save money. It's always so easy for someone making at least six figures to dish out advice on saving or spending, but when you're barely making a third of that things get a bit more complicated.

Your Reputation is Priceless, Don't Damage It

Thank you, internet anonymity. At least we have that.

Comments (58)

Sep 5, 2013

I'm not going to open the link to that article because I'm sure the content would infuriate me. Definitely enjoyed your rebuttal though.

Sep 5, 2013

I was on the bus the other day and there was this old couple surrounded by a group of students me included. Everybody was on the phone except for this one girl reading Twilight. The old lady says " Oh look at this girl she is going to be successful while the rest of them are just stupid teenagers with their phones" Made me laugh

Sep 5, 2013

Awesome stuff man. I tell you what though we did have it easy you know with the whole not having to walk 5 miles uphill both ways in the snow to school each day...

Best Response
Sep 5, 2013

I was on my phone the other day, and I heard an old guy make a comment. "Kids these days waste all day on their phones playing pointless games." I turned around and said. "Is that so? Well I will let you know I just closed a 40 million dollar sale while you were making that, because I am old I know everything comment." He went red and walked off.

I was actually playing angry birds.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

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Feb 4, 2016

Hah, thanks guys. I end up seeing a ton of all of these "millennial" articles as I browse the internet for real content for my job, and so much of it is either nonsense or "no shit" suggestions. This guy's heart may be in the right place, but come on...

Feb 4, 2016

And yes, before someone screams "OMG YOU STOLED THIS?!?!" via text, I am "RogerSterlingJr" on other websites that may provide crossover content at times few and far in between: http://postgradproblems.com/in-response-to-forbess...

Most of my stuff is original, and put where it belongs. This one straddles the line, so it got doubled up.

Sep 5, 2013

Dammit I should have chosen RogerSterlingJr as my name..... Dude is the definition of Rich Old White Guy PIMP.

I hope this is better than the last batch of shit you gave me. Produced more wood than Ron Jeremy. I don't want you to yell, "Reco!" anymore. Know what you should yell? "Timber!" Yeah, Mr. Fuckin' wood.

Sep 5, 2013

Dude, you need a vacation

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Feb 4, 2016
UFOinsider:

Dude, you need a vacation

The whole "paying for it" problem arises

Sep 5, 2013
UFOinsider:

Dude, you need a vacation

Feb 4, 2016
DickFuld:
UFOinsider:

Dude, you need a vacation

Maybe I should crowdsource it

Sep 5, 2013

Also to comment on your "Read More Books, Fewer Tweets/Texts".... EBooks, I dont think Older people realize that all that information can be stored on a conflabbed IPear doohickey.

I hope this is better than the last batch of shit you gave me. Produced more wood than Ron Jeremy. I don't want you to yell, "Reco!" anymore. Know what you should yell? "Timber!" Yeah, Mr. Fuckin' wood.

Sep 5, 2013

Old people are religious. Who's really "not getting it"?

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Sep 5, 2013

"Map Effort to Your Professional Gain"

What a load of crap. Isn't this the same generation that tells us this horseshit and then expects us to go flip burgers or something when we complain there aren't enough jobs due to the economy (that the boomers destroyed)?

EDIT: Also loved your rebuttal on the job hopping thing. As a great man once said "You want loyalty? Hire a cocker spaniel."

Sep 5, 2013

I'm going to need to take a downer. Seriously. I'm a very easy-going guy with a very short-list of things that piss me off. The baby boomer's actions over the last 30 years and their general condescension is one of them though. The Worst Generation.

Sep 5, 2013

Dude you need to chill this rant comes off as so bitter and insecure.

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Feb 4, 2016
ke18sb:

Dude you need to chill this rant comes off as so bitter and insecure.

Well 1/2 ain't bad. Definitely bitter.

Hah, I'm just waiting for some of the older posters to come and tear me a new one

Sep 5, 2013
CRE:
ke18sb:

Dude you need to chill this rant comes off as so bitter and insecure.

Well 1/2 ain't bad. Definitely bitter.

Hah, I'm just waiting for some of the older posters to come and tear me a new one

I read through the author's 20 Things, and I admit, I was also annoyed. However, I was annoyed by the fact that it was addressed at our generation, not because the advice is poor. Each generation has a ton of smart, driven, and talented individuals and a ton of lazy, socially awkward, and unintelligent folks. To attack a single generation with broad, sweeping comments is foolish.

I wouldn't post your response, or any response for that matter. Like ke18sb said, it comes off a bitter and insecure. A big part of this is the swearing, insults, and obviously angry tone of the response. The author is essentially saying our generation of being childish. To respond in such an angry, personal manor would be proving him right.

Regarding the points themselves, I think you missed the message on a few of them and are attacking the wrong argument. For example, the "Pick up the Phone" message is a good one. Some people do everything in their power to avoid interaction. They send emails to folks sitting adjacent to them or down the hall. They email clients or customers with requests instead of asking in person or on the phone. It is an incredibly impersonal way of conducting business.

I'll hit one more just for fun: I disagree with both of you: Social Media IS a career. People, today, are making a living off of managing companies' social media accounts. Sure, it is a fad, but who is to say it is going away? There are people who have dedicated their entire careers to becoming experts on a piece of software (like SAP implementations), or marketing services (brand management). Why doesn't social media count?

If you want to write a snarky response, consider this. The opening paragraph says the author employs a bunch of millennials. This guy's advice is clearly based on his interactions with his own team. If millennials make such poor employees, why doesn't he fire them and hire older employees instead? He probably continues to hire millennials because they make more attractive employees for his company than the older generation, despite millennials' shortfalls. Furthermore, we know that there are a ton of very bright, driven millennials. Apparently he either can't identify them when hiring or they don't want to work for him. This doesn't speak well for his managerial skills.

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Sep 5, 2013

CB,

I have a couple issues with your view. Namely the fact that you take offense with his addressing the our generation. Guess what? We are the younger generation right now. How else is he supposed to address the younger generation? But your point that all generations have people like he is addressing is definitely true.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Sep 5, 2013
heister:

CB,

I have a couple issues with your view. Namely the fact that you take offense with his addressing the our generation. Guess what? We are the younger generation right now. How else is he supposed to address the younger generation? But your point that all generations have people like he is addressing is definitely true.

My point was that his advice is general advice for ANY employee. It should not be directed at any generation in particular but should have been an article for how to be a better employee. Take a look at the first three points: 1) Don't waste time, 2) results matter more than intelligence, and 3) we're more productive in the morning. These things have nothing to do with millennials, they are just generic pieces of business advice. Same goes with almost all the other points.

Sep 5, 2013
CompBanker:

Regarding the points themselves, I think you missed the message on a few of them and are attacking the wrong argument. For example, the "Pick up the Phone" message is a good one. Some people do everything in their power to avoid interaction. They send emails to folks sitting adjacent to them or down the hall. They email clients or customers with requests instead of asking in person or on the phone. It is an incredibly impersonal way of conducting business.

I'm not for avoiding contact and think the phone has a time and place, but people (particularly senior people) waste so much time on the phone it's not even funny. People talk in circles, waste time with way too much unnecessary small talk, bullshit, repeat themselves, make inane points just to get "air time," and ask people to recap things that should have been read already or have already been said. Also, frequent phone calls vs. emails interrupt your work flow in a major way and can be very distracting because you can't manage when you respond. This makes for a very frustrating (and long) work day, which is probably why you see millenials avoiding the phone. I think a more appropriate response might be to use a Tim Ferriss style approach (see 4 hour work week) to manage your phone interactions so the phone is used as productively as possible.

Sep 5, 2013

While on the one hand you do bring up good points, I have to disagree. At the end of the deal almost everything is relationship driven. This is especially true for IB and PE. What might appear as a waste of time and just bullshitting, small talk, etc. is actually the fostering of a good relationship. Even if its repeating things or what not the airtime establishes a more human connection that builds over time. At the end of a day, the work output that is created by Analysts and Associate is a commodity product. It is the relationships that really drive value. You want the CEO, CFO, LP, etc. thinking I really that guy and want to do business with him. Even at the lower level if that means you gotta stay a little later its worth the sacrifice in my opinion to 1. fine tune those skills, and 2. build meaningful relationships.

labanker:

I'm not for avoiding contact and think the phone has a time and place, but people (particularly senior people) waste so much time on the phone it's not even funny. People talk in circles, waste time with way too much unnecessary small talk, bullshit, repeat themselves, make inane points just to get "air time," and ask people to recap things that should have been read already or have already been said. Also, frequent phone calls vs. emails interrupt your work flow in a major way and can be very distracting because you can't manage when you respond. This makes for a very frustrating (and long) work day, which is probably why you see millenials avoiding the phone. I think a more appropriate response might be to use a Tim Ferriss style approach (see 4 hour work week) to manage your phone interactions so the phone is used as productively as possible.

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Sep 5, 2013

I wonder if we are overstating the importance of relationships in modern IB and PE. Sure you have to have some rapport with the other side, but given the way the industry has evolved, I'd say reputation and flat out economics matter a whole lot more these days. On the banking side, no matter how many times you've done business with a company or how many times you call them to shoot the shit, you're going to have to do a bake-off to get the next deal, and if the company has the slightest inkling someone else is better for the job or offers better economics, they're going to go with someone else.

On the PE side, most M&A processes are standardized auctions at this point, so PE money is more or less commoditized and the whole "establish a relationship with the CEO," is much less important. It's more about coming in at a high price and then convincing the shareholders and the bankers that you have the wherewithal and ability to close quickly (i.e. economics and reputation).

I've just seen it too many times where someone claims to have a "great relationship" only to have the mandate go away in a flash, or have the other side re-trade HARD on deal.

Again, not saying that fostering goodwill with others doesn't have its place, I just don't think it has the same sway in finance today as it did 30 or 40 years ago.

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Sep 5, 2013

People always say they have a great relationship, even when they don't. A good relationship gets you an invitation to the party, but the other side has a fiduciary relationship in their role, so they still have to beat the shit out of any service provider.

Sep 7, 2013
labanker:

I wonder if we are overstating the importance of relationships in modern IB and PE. Sure you have to have some rapport with the other side, but given the way the industry has evolved, I'd say reputation and flat out economics matter a whole lot more these days. On the banking side, no matter how many times you've done business with a company or how many times you call them to shoot the shit, you're going to have to do a bake-off to get the next deal, and if the company has the slightest inkling someone else is better for the job or offers better economics, they're going to go with someone else.

On the PE side, most M&A processes are standardized auctions at this point, so PE money is more or less commoditized and the whole "establish a relationship with the CEO," is much less important. It's more about coming in at a high price and then convincing the shareholders and the bankers that you have the wherewithal and ability to close quickly (i.e. economics and reputation).

I've just seen it too many times where someone claims to have a "great relationship" only to have the mandate go away in a flash, or have the other side re-trade HARD on deal.

Again, not saying that fostering goodwill with others doesn't have its place, I just don't think it has the same sway in finance today as it did 30 or 40 years ago.

Bankers are pathological liars and always have a great relationship with everyone, just because they dont get the deal doesnt mean relationship didnt matter, theirs just wasnt as ood as they told people. PE really depends, within large cap where stuff tends to be auctioned as sellers are more sophisticated and just wanna maximize profit are less relationship driven than mm pe mainly dealing with family owned businesses.

Sep 5, 2013

Yea no worries. I think the point of the article was meant to be positive and providing advice not an attack on a younger generation. After all the write is only 34 himself.

Sep 7, 2013

Time point social media point and people point are corecct

Feb 4, 2016
leveredarb:

Time point social media point and people point are corecct

Hah, so am I to assume that I got the other 17 incorrect?

Sep 5, 2013

It's funny you mentioned you write for PGP. Though I didn't read it there, I was thinking to myself that this thing was blowing up. Talking to people who recently graduated, you definitely get a sense of bleak job prospects. This inter-generational disagreement happens every time. I'm sure people who live through the depression criticized their "listless" and "entitled" children.

CRE, you would probably enjoy this ted talk about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-enHH-r_FM

PE is the new black.

Sep 5, 2013

+1. Well said.

I look at articles like these as the boomers' final desperate attempts to get us to drink the Kool-Aid.

Your rebuttal to "You're Talented, But Talent is Overrated" is spot on. I'm fairly convinced we could fire 60% of managers / senior people and most companies wouldn't miss a beat. After working a few years, it's astonishing how little most of these people do and how little they know.

Sep 5, 2013
labanker:

+1. Well said.

I look at articles like these as the boomers' final desperate attempts to get us to drink the Kool-Aid.

Your rebuttal to "You're Talented, But Talent is Overrated" is spot on. I'm fairly convinced we could fire 60% of managers / senior people and most companies wouldn't miss a beat. After working a few years, it's astonishing how little most of these people do and how little they know.

Your assertion that we could fire 60% of managers and no one would know is wrong. No if and or buts about it. Its just wrong. The managers we could fire and not notice it are not because they are bad managers or are lazy it is because their job is not as critical as people believe. The majority of bad managers hold organization critical jobs.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

Sep 5, 2013

To be fair, most Millenials are complete idiots. The only problem is that most people are complete idiots, regardless of their generation.

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Feb 4, 2016
DickFuld:

To be fair, most Millenials are complete idiots. The only problem is that most people are complete idiots, regardless of their generation.

hah, brilliant

Sep 5, 2013

Sure it's a little bitter, but it was hilarious and I totally get where he's coming from.

Sep 6, 2013

I'm pretty sure that every generation since the beginning of time has been condescended/criticized by the preceding ones. No point in arguing with it, as I'm sure that we'll do the same to the generations that precede us.

Sep 6, 2013

Love this, you should send it in to Forbes as a response.

Give me a kid whose smart, poor, and hungry...............

Sep 6, 2013

First bullet... the inefficiency kills me

Sep 5, 2013

My only response is that while yes in many cases it has become process driven I still think the relationships are the drivers. I am not of the opinion that bake offs are a clean slate. Decision makers have their favorites ie relationships, and the bake off if anything is to foster more relationships and check the box that you met with multiple groups. I don't think that pitch books are so dramatically different. Maybe there are instances of the dark horse but I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of the time the front runner wins the mandate.

As far as PE, in my experience everything is not about economics. Its about how the founder/management likes the PE group, the potential value add of the group, maintaining the company's vision, things of that nature. The biggest check does not always win.

Sep 6, 2013

You make a lot of straw man arguments. Eh whatever, you kids don't get it....

Feb 4, 2016
CreditAnalyst85:

You make a lot of straw man arguments. Eh whatever, you kids don't get it....

Oh that's no fun

Sep 7, 2013

Read this before, wanted to respond but didn't know how. Thanks for doing it properly. Good post.

Sep 7, 2013

Woman says something to girls on the bus? Bullshit.

Closing $40m deal on the bus at the same time an old man makes an ageist comment? Bullshit.

Technical Skills - Bring it? Christ this place is full of kids. Good for you with your fancy excel skills. That's monkey work. Real technical skills are in structuring and negotiations.

Having said that, the Forbes article is just as childish

Feb 4, 2016
AndyCap:

Christ this place is full of kids.

Hah, well given the subject matter...and the title...

Sep 8, 2013

huh?

Sep 7, 2013

Throughout the history of civilization, every person has had a constant desire to feel superior morally, ethically and functionally to broader society.

That's what sells newspapers ("I want to read some articles about how dumb the opposing party is"), TV shows ("Harvey Spector reminds me of what I'm like"), sports ("my predictions about the [almost completely random] outcomes of sporting events will ring true"), jewelry ("I will seem more successful if I'm wearing a $5k watch"), etc.

However, nothing sells better than articles about how [insert any cross-section of the population that doesn't include you] exhibits unjustifiable and patently stupid superiority. What better way to feel superior than to call out other groups for trying to be superior?

This is a dumb article, and the response is only mildly less trifling. Everyone is wrong.

By the law of large numbers, the average person in any sufficiently large cross-section of the population is pretty much exactly the same.

30-somethings, you are not any more intelligent, resourceful or cunning than your 20-something colleagues. Sorry. You have more experience and likely more situational knowledge, but virtually every test of mental agility or productivity will show that most human beings have reached peak ability by age 25. 20-somethings, you are not sharper, more flexible, more technical or faster-paced than your 30-something colleagues. You have more natural ability with technology and likely are quicker at completing digital tasks, but virtually every employed 30-something has acquired enough technical ability to succeed in any work environment.

People are the same all over. Despite that fact, everyone must feel like a special snowflake.

You are not a special snowflake.

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Sep 7, 2013

"A New Job a Year Isn't a Good Thing

Maybe not, but neither is staying in a shit job that either doesn't pay, doesn't give you valuable skills, or is just generally miserable. When you're young, job hopping happens, especially in this day an age, and any sense of "25 years at the same company to retire with a pension" is long gone. If you're not going to give us the opportunity to succeed, do something meaningful, make money, or whatever else we value most, we're gone, and it's costing you on average $25,000 for the turnover. Sucks to be you, shit boss.

People Matter More Than Perks

You know what you can't pay bills with? A good office culture. Yes, it is good to have people around you at work you can be friends with. Yes, it is nice to have a boss who isn't a shitbag. (I wouldn't know). But really, if I can get comped dinners on Seamless, a bigger year end bonus, the ability to work from home, or whatever else I want, that's going to take priority. I have friends already."

Fuck yes to the above, that is what I am talking about! I recall a previous job where I worked my nuts off and on top of that I brought tons of credibility to the firm (came from industry with very good credibility), expanded/improved the bottom line. Bonus time comes and you know the story "well we are providing you with a good network and platform and we are doing this and that for you so...you need to market more and lick sales ass more...here you go ...sub par bonus and other BS Guess what? Mass exodus of senior analysts began and next thing I knew, I snagged a significantly better position elsewhere.

Good office culture is such bullshit too and is pretty much non existent in finance anyway. It's funny when a firm wants you they tell you all these great things about the firm and how the firm is much more chill than others...never believe that shit.

Sep 5, 2013
Aston Gekko:

Good office culture is such bullshit too and is pretty much non existent in finance anyway. It's funny when a firm wants you they tell you all these great things about the firm and how the firm is much more chill than others...never believe that shit.

Maybe you've just been at firms with bad environments. I can say 100% from experience that culture is huge and there are truly great cultures out there. I've had some jobs where going to work was literally like going to hang out with your buddies - MD down to the Analyst level.

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Sep 8, 2013

This seems to be a continuing conversation amongst professionals. A guys hipped hipped to the book "The Fourth Turning". I've been checking out the excepts. The authors state that generational characteristics and archetypes are developed based on the eras in which they are born and come of age. Now, I'm not for broad generalizations. But, I do like the addition of the "turnings" as a component in trying to understand generational differences.

Here's the website and wiki....

http://fourthturning.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fourth_Turning

Sep 8, 2013

Lots of ways to look at this. OP, I think you nailed it with your response. Seems like you think a lot like I do, so I have to say that I agree with just about all of what you're saying.

Everyone wants to say "well you know there's idiots in every generation so he's just targeting at those people"...well then it should be called 20 things slackers/underachievers of any age should know. But at the same time, that doesn't even really make his points more valid. His points ARE sweeping generalizations that do tend to be true, but again, I have to agree with CRE's rebuttal. If I had a dollar for every time I heard a Boomer say something that basically amounted to an abridged version of this list, I wouldn't need a job. I get real sick and tired of the "when I was a boy..." attitude that seems to rear its ugly head from time to time.

At the same time, I know lots of people over 40, 50, even 60 who don't think like that. They know how to use technology. They don't rant about "the kids and them darned iphonies" and "the country is going to hell because of that rap music" and all that shit. They continued to grow as people, and know how to exist in this world without being different almost out of spite. I guess that's an attitude I just don't get. Every single day of my life, I try to learn at least a few things, no matter what they are. My principals don't change, but I try to become a better person every day. It seems like many in the Boomer generation seem to have decided that things stopped changing when they were 28 and if they didn't, well damnit they should have. This is just so counterproductive it's unreal. I can't honestly relate to thinking like that. And I think articles like this come from that mindset.

None of this is to say that we don't have some real shitheads in our generation. But guess what. So has every generation. People definitely have a tendency to look backwards with rose-colored glasses, although they shouldn't. I sure as hell try not to. There's lots of advice to give people like that, but I don't think you'll find any of it in this list.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Sep 5, 2013

I've seen enough posts in this thread that seem to indicate that anyone older than they are is considered a Baby Boomer that I thought it might be worth mentioning that a Baby Boomer is generally considered to be born between 1945 and 1964. In other words, people between 49 and 68 years old are considered a Boomer right now.

http://en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Baby_boomer

Sep 8, 2013
DickFuld:

I've seen enough posts in this thread that seem to indicate that anyone older than they are is considered a Baby Boomer that I thought it might be worth mentioning that a Baby Boomer is generally considered to be born between 1945 and 1964. In other words, people between 49 and 68 years old are considered a Boomer right now.

http://en.wikipedia(dot)org/wiki/Baby_boomer

I really hope there's not people that didn't know that here.

"When you stop striving for perfection, you might as well be dead."

Sep 11, 2013

The writer has achieved wealth, status and success by age 34. What have *you* achieved? You just sound like any resentful, know-it-all teenager. Exactly the sort of self-congratulatory jerkoff that the original article was written to admonish.

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Sep 16, 2013

Monty Python resolved this one in 1982. Google "Four Yorkshireman"

Sep 16, 2013

Monty Python, Four Yorkshiremen. 'nuff said.

Sep 17, 2013

Great read. Thanks

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