Help! Accept non MBB Consulting Offer?
I have an offer from a non MBB consulting firm (think Deloitte, Booz) which expires before all my remaining interviews (2 of the MBBs and 1 more non MBB - all first rounds). All my applications are to offices in the same city.
I cannot extend the offer expiry and I cannot bring forward the interviews (I've already checked). Should I
1) Accept the offer and withdraw from the interviews?
2) Accept the offer and go for the interviews (possibly renege later if I get an offer I prefer? :S)
3) Reject the offer and go for the interviews?
Appreciate your advice!
So, Deloitte then? Booz isn't Booz anymore.
Anyway, if you think you have a good shot with the other firms (i.e. you are great at case interviews, since you already have the interview scheduled) then decline the offer. If you decline, they may extend the deadline, but if not, you still have a shot with the other firms.
I wouldn't accept and then keep interviewing, as that can reflect poorly on you, but there are differing opinions on that among people in these forums.
If I were you, swing for the fences. Give up something good (offer at a 2nd tier) for something better (chance to prove yourself at an MBB level).
Option 2. Not sure why they wont extend the deadline, but I would do #2. At the end of the day, they can replace you instantly if you renege.
Accept and renege for sure
Do not -- do not -- do not -- do not -- do not -- do not -- do not -- do not even think about rejecting without something else lined up.
Luck is a significant component of any interview process, and assuming you're unlucky and strike out on your next three interviews (or an interviewer is in a bad mood that day, or he/she doesn't like the shirt you're wearing, or someone's nephew is your competition, etc.), you're going to be in a horrible spot. Assuming this is for FT and not a summer internship, do (1) or (2).
I personally would do (2), and I think anyone who has been in the corporate world long enough would agree. However, if you're the kind of person who wouldn't be able to sleep at night because you "screwed over a company" (hint: at the junior level it's impossible to screw over a company), then maybe do (1).
I changed my mind. Accept and renege if needed. I think you have your answer. You owe Deloitte nothing. NOTHING!
This.
You only decline an offer when you already have a better offer you'd rather take, all written in ink. Unless this offer is something you hate to take, (and I don't think it would be) you should never even think about declining it with an empty hand. Actually, even an offer you hate is far better than nothing at all. Moreover, you are only in the first round, and MBB offers are not exactly easy to get.
Don't bet your career/future on some fear that you might burn a bridge with a firm that you wouldn't even care about, if things turn out for the better. Accept what you have now, but continue your interviews.
Personally, I would never feel comfortable about accepting and reneging an offer. Your word is your bond, and even though you're not screwing over Deloitte by any means, that doesn't make it anymore ethical. Maybe I'm a self-righteous prick, but that's how I feel.
If you want to work at MBB, have some fucking balls, decline the offer, and go for it.
"Ethical" is the stupidest word in business. It's a fucking scam propagated by employers to ensure that employees remain complicit in the one-way street that is Corporate America.
If you do what's best for yourself... You're "reneging." An employer needs to cut costs... Oh that's just rightsizing.
If look for another job... You're "ungrateful." An employer hires someone to do a management role you should've been able to compete for... Oh, they're just doing what's best for the business..
People are promised raises that never come, responsibilities that never materialize, etc. "Words" mean fucking nothing. They're not "bond" -- contracts are. If an employer wanted to issue a contract that said, "Sign this and you're locked the fuck in," they very well could. But believe me: They get way more benefit from a contract's "at will" clause than you do, and part of the reason they do is because people are too cowardly to act in their own self interests. (You, for example).
Everything in life, from your relationship with your employer to your relationship with your wife to your puppy's doe-eyed love for you, is an economic transaction. In OP's case, the economics are relatively simple:
(1) Accept, interview, and don't get MBB: Shit is exactly the same.
(2) Accept, interview, get MBB, and renege: In the worst case you've burned a bridge, but you have a superior job (And honestly, the bridge is really just burned at the junior level, which is precisely when you don't need the inferior job).
(3) Accept and don't interview: A fine option by all means.
(4) Reject, interview, and get MBB: Good for you, you fucking idiot.
(5) Reject, interview, and don't get MBB: You are completely and utterly fucked, you fucking idiot.
I look at those options and say, hey, (1) and (2) sound pretty good to me; however, the not insignificant chance of (5) happening would be so devastating to my career prospects that I could not in good faith even think about doing something so stupid.
And don't get me wrong, there are plenty of reasons to accept and pass on the other interviews. Maybe OP thinks OCR is going to be important for him soon or even down the line and doesn't want his/her career center to catch wind of this. Maybe the real or perceived difference between the two positions isn't significant enough to make up for the risk of reputational damage, the burned bridge, or even just the added work of continuing to interview.
In no circumstances, however, should the reason for turning down a superior opportunity be "my word is my bond."
TL;DR: Your advice is wrong my dude.
[quote=wsib1]
humblebot - I bet you're a HS/College student who hasn't seen the real world
[quote/]
So... I maybe wouldn't have put it as strongly as wsib1 put it, but I felt the same way. See my first post in this thread, and then the post right above yours. I'm in it about a year now, and it's still hard for me to reconcile my ethics with the fact that you MUST do what is best for you because nobody will be looking out for you but you.
Also, competing companies have FULL knowledge of each other's deadlines. They stagger offer deadlines for a reason. Tier 2 firms try to scoop you up quick and force you into these situations. MBB will wait for the cream to rise to the top. It's all strategy, so you should have your own strategy.
humblebot - I bet you're a HS/College student who hasn't seen the real world
Most definitely. It's easy to say deny the offer when you've never actually 100% supported yourself. I'd do what most people here are suggesting....accept but keep your options open. There's only one person who's looking out for you and that's yourself.
Maybe I am just being naive. But please enlighten me. What about your experience in the "real world" has taught you that it's okay to renege on a commitment?
The 'your word is your bond' stuff is an admirable notion, but it sure as hell won't be a two way street, and won't get you very far in the real world.
I guess a bunch of in-the-real-world folks have helped me enlighten you. You're a lucky man.
Agreed. (2)
Thanks for the advice everyone! It does seem like accepting the offer is much wiser than declining it from everything that everyone said.
I'm tending toward 2) accept & renege now. But I was wondering how real the risk of getting caught interviewing after you've accepted an offer is, and will my offer (and interviews) be rescinded if I'm caught? I know the recruiter at my offer company used to work at one of the MBB's I'm interviewing with less than a year ago, which makes me feel like that might be a real chance I get found out
Although it seems as if you've already decided on your course of action I'll just add my two cents and that I agree with most of the earlier respondents.
When I was recruiting for my first job I found myself in the exact same position. I had an offer which would expire before I had a chance to have my first interviews with other consulting firms which I would rather work at. I actually turned the offer down because I felt fairly certain one of the remaining interviews would be successful and that it was "the right thing to do". I did get an offer from one of the remaining interview processes, but it was by a damn close margin. Then when I had accepted this offer I got a response back from another firm which offered me a first interview. I turned this down since I felt I had an obligation to honor my signed offer from the other firm.
So, would I do the same today? Definitely not. One thing I've learned is that even though you as a student looking for a job think that you'll burn your bridges and be an outcast if you "scew someone over" this is never the case. As others have stated, as a junior it is practically impossible to screw a company over. Sure, the one responsible for offering you the contract might be pissed for a short while, but he will have forgotten who you are by the next month. Might be cynical, but you will never get a thank you for doing what's good for the company, but not necessarily the best for you.
Today I would have taken the first offer to have it as a back up and I would have taken the interview after I signed the other offer to perhaps get another offer I could compare to the one I already had. Had I done this nothing would have changed except that I would have had more options and reduced my risk.
We actually had a candidate who signed an offer from us but called the day before he was supposed to start to let us know he had had gotten another offer and would start there. Not a very smooth move by him perhaps, but he got a good job at another firm and no one here remembers him anyway or holds any grudges so no bridges burned.
In short, when it comes to your career, the only one who will look out for what is best for you is you and people/companies have very short memories.
I think it'd be a tougher decision if you had to worry about OCR access in the future. I went through something similar in soph year but decided to accept an offer I wasn't too keen on rather than renege and lose access to my career centre.
Exactly. If this is a FT position we are talking about, take the offer you currently have for now. If this is an internship, reneging on the offer will mean you can't use OCR to find a FT position in the future.
Again, maybe I am being naive, but I still don't feel that reneging is okay. The prevailing logic in this thread is that Deloitte would do the same to you. I don't actually believe that.
I've never heard of any reputable company reneging on an offer that they extended to a candidate. It would be an absolutely scummy thing for them to do, and it's an absolutely scummy thing for you to do, regardless of whether it actually hurts the company.
If this is a case where you absolutely need the job, take the 2nd tier offer and drop the MBB interviews. Taking the offer and continuing to interview is lying for personal gain no matter how you slice it. It's this "victim-less crime" mentality that leads to things like the Galleon scandal, the Enron affair, among countless other incidents.
This mentality of things only being wrong if you're caught and punished is disgusting and needs to stop.
This happens at reputable companies. Believe it.
Someone reneging on an offer is not the same as outright fraud. Pull your head out of your ass.
Do you think the firm he/she renege's on is going to implode into bankruptcy or something else catastrophic as a result?
I don't think anyone here would say they are comfortable reneging. You are right, reneging is NOT okay.
At the end of the day, it is a personal choice. What punishment do you get for reneging? Guilt? Getting blacklisted at the firm? Banned from OCR? If you think you know for sure that what you gain from reneging an offer (in OP's case, an opportunity to work at MBB instead of Deloitte/Booz) more than compensates for potential setbacks listed above, then it is only rational that you'd go ahead and renege and bolt for the better opportunity, right?
And of course, for those of us (humblebot and rhen) who value the guilt and other negative outcomes of the reneging route more than a better career opportunity (which also has different values to different people) then those would NOT renege. The reason so many people in this thread advised OP to renege is because that's what they would have done personally if it was their career on the line. To each his/her own.
Lastly, I will say that typically, large firms that hand out hundreds of offers each recruiting season already take into account a handful of people reneging. They will be very disappointed, but they won't be shocked.
You are very naive.
Tons of reputable firms rescind offers when business go sour. Others sack you 6 months in.
At my firm, I've seen friends kicked out the door with barely any notice, individuals who were doing well, decent performance reviews and bent over backwards to be more "flexible" for the firm.
The firm didn't even blink. At the end of the day, this is a business. You are a potential revenue generator. That's it. The moment you think you "owe" the firm anything, is the moment that you allow that firm to take advantage of you.
Do a fantastic job everyday, collect a paycheck that you feel is worthy, and make some life-long friends along the way. Full-stop.
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