Who tf are getting into these MBB firms as FT Associates/Analysts?
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Tbh most people I know who work at MBB didn't start there out of uni.
Their grad classes are really small. I don't think it's really the end of the world to start at Tier 2 or even Tier 3 and work your way in. Seen it done many times.
I agree 100%. But even landing Tier 2 or even Tier 3 seems really hard these days
Bro realized life isn’t fair
Dude I get life is unfair I am a first-gen immigrant with no connections in the industry. That's why I stacked my internships to this point, to compete with the nepos. The point I am trying to make and I underestimated is just HOW unfair and corrupt it is.
I’m a first gen immigrant with no connections.
I made it to MBB for three reasons: I had a differentiated, interesting background (which is very very hard to do out of undergrad, you need to have been an Olympic athlete or similar), I worked very hard and had academic credentials that showed it, and I had good luck.
You can control the first two things. You cannot control your luck. That doesn’t make anything corrupt, it’s just life. There’s a thousand kids just like you applying to MBB and tier 2. All are qualified. Getting selected out of the pile comes down to luck.
Hi Jonah
I think your frustrations are entirely valid, and I had them when I applied too.
I recommend going to your target firm's LinkedIn -> People -> using the filters and looking at their backgrounds/achievements. That might add perspective (or make things worse ;-)).
What I can say, is that MBB has the pick of pretty much everybody applying to consulting or finance more broadly. A lot of people chance an application with McKinsey.
To put things into perspective, they probably receive high 100s of ks to 1 million applications each year.
How many positions are available?
Normally 3000-6000 globally.
Those are 0.3-0.6% odds.
So although coming from a "semi-target" may not seem like a big deal to you, depending on their requirements in a given cycle it may just not be worth spending the time on interviewing you. It costs money.
I can attest to the insidiousness of the nepotism. It is often not direct (i.e. a Dad working at the firm), but it is "Oh your Dad is a VP for this petrochem company?", "Oh your Mum works in government?". The firms do want people adjacent to their line of business for all of the reasons you can think of. I will stress that that is not the majority of hires though and most hires are meritocratic and genuinely impressive cohorts of individuals.
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Having said that, if you're absolutely confident you're not triggering any of their "disgust" factors, and as an applicant you think you have a strong profile, it might be worth getting a second opinion.
If you know anybody that got internships there at your current college, have them vet your application. You can also pay a coach to do that, but do exhaust the free options first.
I appreciate your comment. One thing I just struggle to see/comprehend is how someone who has 1 internship in "event production" can get into one of the Bain offices in Canada, but someone with 5 internships in PE, MBB, and Big 4 can't even get a first round interview. If not nepotism I don't know what other factors could explain it. Also I am saying I am a "semi-target" in the USA, not Canada. In Canada my college is one of if not THE "target" school. The only learning curve from this experience is that maybe I should have networked harder, but even that is just admitting to the fact I will need to be more corrupt to be successful at recruitment which is just so disappointing.
I feel you.
My advice is definitely to get somebody to look over your profile: CV, languages, grades, cover letters, LinkedIn, performance in pre-interview assessments. I'm going to be honest, by the sounds of it, you should be getting to R1.
Networking is important, but with 5 internships in PE, MBB and Big 4, you should get a R1 interview.
The question is, why didn't you get a return offer from your internship at MBB? Why don't you already have a network if you got the internship? What changed in your profile from landing an MBB internship to now?
That doesn't really make sense to me.
A guy in my country studied History at Durham University and landed an Investment Banking role right after he graduated. No internship sighted on his Linkedin. When you're client kids that first job is just yours no matter what.
FYI I interned at a big MBB office and almost every single undergrad level intern was from HYPSM
I get this is a reality in the States, but even in Canada??
Are you a Canadian or American citizen? Just curious why you are applying to the Canadian offices if you are from a US school.
The reality is for Canada they would prefer local Canadian feeders (Ivey, Queens Comm, etc.) over most US semi targets unless it is HYPSM, even for Canadians studying in the US. Even then there are concerns as to wether or not you are actually going to commit to the Canadian office vs. transfer for a US office after 1 year or so. You need to have a valid or very strong reason as to why you are applying to certain offices. Sounds like you go to school / have most of your experience in the west coast, so it might not make the most sense to recruiting as to why you are applying to DC & Toronto.
Also, all 3 MBB in general have a much smaller presence in Canada (ex. pretty sure Bain only has Toronto with Montreal opening recently) so it doesn't make it any less competitive from a recruiting stand point.
For Canada they mostly recruit from Canadian targets. I also went to university in Canada and I know of maybe 1-2 students from my year who made it to MBB. And they were all local offices. You either have to apply to local offices or offices where you have personal connection to.
Btw I don't know of anyone who was a nepo hire and even the diversity hires were all from HYPSM. The 1-2 kids from semi-targets were ORM.
Almost every spot goes to a target school student via OCR or someone with a strong connection (with still good credentials). The spots leftover for 'everyone else' are slim to none.
For my MBB NY/SF internship, I’d say it was ~5 nepo, ~5 diversity, ~15 HYPSW, ~5 local flagship
I would even count the ~5 local flagship as nepotism bc fundamentally you are just hiring someone bc you went to the same college or live in the same neighborhood as the candidate.
So nepo is anyone who’s not you. Got it.
Do you realize how dismissive and disrespectful you sound about these 5 local flagship hires whom I'm assuming that you know nothing about?
They may have had truly astounding accomplishments and they only attended public school because of $$.
They may have competed or performed at a national level or been scholars on a big name " full ride " program, beating out many others in a fiercely competitive talent pool.
Yet, without knowing any of them personally, you have already assumed that they are "nepo" hires.
I got MBB out of undergrad going to a local state flagship, and the only people from my school at the office are managers and lower. We sent around 20 kids to MBB most if not all of them had no nepo/connection. Having some common ground is not Nepo.
I wonder if you are too quick to jump on the "nepo" bandwagon. I know about a dozen undergrads who got into mbb straight from college -- and literally none of them were "nepo." They were, however, all from Wharton. Many were from one of the special programs at Penn. All had noteworthy accomplishments on their resume.
Tbh ur demeanor sounds awful. Canada is an absurdly competitive market and Toronto has fewer spots than my MBB office despite being like half the population. Many of the people I know with random ass internships just demonstrated impact well, networked, and had other impressive honors/scholarships.
- a first generation American, with zero connections in the industry, who goes to a T30 (semi target) school in the US, and has genuinely only seen non nepo candidates get hired, out of the 30 or so I know from my school.
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