All - curious as to views on Asset Backed Lending / Specialty Finance (sub-stragies to include: Asset backed cashflow loans, structured credit, specialty finance (rights, royalties, lender finance), trade finance, special situations)
Talks around it being ripe for disruption - private debt funds are increasingly to raise capital for this strategy as banks retreat / inc. in volatility / inflation / PE valuation uncertainty
Particularly curious on its appeal vs. direct lending - in terms of how interesting it is, opportunity etc.
Probably less crowded than DL so easier to grow up and move up.
Obviously more interesting than DL given DL is converging with BSL CLO-level diligence/covenants.
Hot take thanks.
What I’m trying to get around is that it’s historically seen as unsexy as lower risk / returns, financing old economy businesses, and covered by commercial and investment banks like Wells Fargo. DL is relatively fast paced and pretty flexible across sectors. Is this changing / wrong?
Ares Pathfinder, KKR asset backed, Marathon and Apollo are becoming more active in the space
"What I’m trying to get around is that it’s historically seen as unsexy as lower risk / returns, financing old economy businesses, and covered by commercial and investment banks like Wells Fargo. DL is relatively fast paced and pretty flexible across sectors. Is this changing / wrong?"
lol, who you do think did direct lending before the suits at apollo/bx/ares/hps started doing it? This was boring work for commercial banks 10yrs ago but supersexy today with SOFR at 5m spreads at 550= LT returns with back-leverage.
Now those same suits are targeting the asset-backed space. DL/PC has taken a big chunk out of public corporate markets and from bank balance sheets. If you think that asset-backed markets go through the same shift with private firms taking a higher portion, you'd want to aim for asset-backed PC. In other words, if DL/PC has taken 50% of corporate market but only 10% of asset-backed market, why not join the latter to rise with the tide of market share capture?
I'm making these numbers up but I'm sure every megafund (KKR esp) has put out a piece on their asset finance efforts over last few weeks.
Super gross space. Everyone should continue being a public corporate distressed investor that can play up and down the cap stack and stay away from the asset based private credit garbage. There's zero alpha or chicks to be found there.
One of the biggest smoke-shows I've ever seen was actually in an ABL.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1857853/000119312521208779/d128…;
Honestly, the capital markets / ABS space is ripe for relationship people who can use being super hot as a competitive advantage. I have to work with way too many people who are dumb as rocks and can't write full sentences but "know a dude that LOVES this risk" and manage to convert that into a whole ass career.
I can't fault them.
Yields are relatively low, not much long term opportunity there.
Not necessarily; attractive with fund leverage (10-15% fund returns)
If you include structured products - its a huge space that will keep growing to rate and jam into insurance company balance sheets.
Other fun places a few hedge funds have been playing have been off-balance sheet inventory financings in mid-teens, FILO ABLs, "securitization facilities" which are just dropdowns and others.
For private credit nice also to be able to offer both the ABL and the direct loan to a company, though most traditional companies should be able to raise more term loan than ABL.
I personally like royalty structures these days. No one wants to give up equity right before rates are expected to drop / valuations are known to be low in general, banks have tightened up on lending, and business owners are in positions where they need cash
Currently incoming SA to GS/MS/JPM SPG. Would the ABS Team there a good place to be in to jump to MF ABF funds for FT?
Yes
what are examples of unique sectors?
Assume they are talking about stuff like catastrophe bonds, mass-tort litigation pools, life settlements, patent troll IP royalties etc. Basically anything that kind of looks like credit cashflows and can be securitized.
What are some of the lesser known names in ABF / specialty fin?
Who are the most active / largest investors in asset-backed credit?
Banks.
Ares / KKR / Apollo have pretty large origination platforms out of the megafunds.
Atalaya
Blackstone, KKR, Apollo, PIMCO, Sixth Street, Atalaya
(deleted)
Any insight into recruiting process or head hunters mandated for these firms?
Can someone sense-check me here?
It seems like we're in the perfect time that if there's a compelling opportunity in one of these historically more niche-ier/low key specialty finance/abs/abl investors and grow the skillset expertise in the space, you'll be in way higher demand in 5-10 years than the cohorts of professionals who started and left these firms in the past. It sort of feels like the same story that played out for guys who did direct corporate lending at banks and those roles were maybe seen as "sleepier" back in the day and then private DL exploded and they all were getting picked off for big comp because there just wasn't enough investment professionals at the asset manager side.
Having recently moved from distressed credit to an ABF focused shop, I hope you're correct! There does seem to be plenty of opportunity if you look past the vanilla factoring types of deals, especially internationally .
Can you touch on why you moved from distressed to ABF, and your experience so far? Also, are you involved much with distressed assets in ABF? Or is that not as big of a focus? Also how much room for opportunity do you see in ABF compared to corporate?
Do you mind if I PM you? I’ve been trying to learn a bit more about various ABF shops
Would also like to PM, currently weighing offers between a more distressed/non-sponsor backed shop that splits time between ABF and Corp Lending and pure Speciality Finance ABF Lender.
Would you mind if I PM you? Considering a role CLO/ABL role and would love to get your take on the transition to an ABF.
Anyone open to sharing case studies That are generally given for interviews at the megafunds?
Can someone shine some light on what the most common exit opps are? How difficult would it be to lateral into distressed debt investing/special sits/RX?
Likely very difficult to go to special sits / distressed (speaking as someone who came from distressed to ABF). Special sits and distressed require much more legal and capital structure experience than ABF does (ABF focuses mostly on asset level performance)
What do you use for modeling cash flows on private deals? Intex or other providers?
Appreciate your comment here. As a follow up, would you say vanilla senior tranch direct lending could be an easier transition?
I know that corporate cash-flows vs. asset level cash flows differ but I feel like apart from the modeling, the underwriting process is similar enough or am I missing something. Thank you in advance
there are cracks in this space for sure, the recent solar and auto bankruptcies being the canaries
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