PhD vs MD for Biotech ER

Anyone have thoughts on if it’s better to have an MD or PhD for biotech ER? Obviously there are those with PhDs, MDs, MD/PhDs, and those without it as well.

In general what is better? Have you seen PhDs do better in the role or MDs? Would like to get a debate going.

 

While I don't think either is necessary to be a good biotech analyst (ex. Umer Raffat), between the two, I think PhD's (assuming its in a relevant subject area i.e. Biochemistry, Molecular Biology, etc.) are better.  Medical school doesn't really teach critical thinking.  It teaches memorization and regurgitation.  Medical students read text books alot more than they read scientific papers.  Research in biopharma is about digesting information and asking the right questions.  Its not to say MD's don't or can't develop these skills but developing them is not built into formal medical education. 

 

I’d disagree - PhD’s are objectively easier to get.

Same logic applies for those kids from target schools. Give me a kid from Harvard philosophy vs University of Alabama biochemistry on my biotech ER team.

Point is raw intelligence is raw intelligence. Very very difficult to get into a medical school anywhere in the states. Best medical school has a 2% acceptance rate vs 5% for some of the worst. PhD programs are plentiful very easy to get accepted

 

Completely disagree with this…while I don’t think you need an advanced degree, I do think you need some higher education in the life sciences to at least be competitive given how many MDs/PhDs want to get into ER. No one is hiring a Harvard philosophy major over an University of Alabama biochemistry PhD….

Now a Harvard MD over a University of Alabama PhD….that’s not as clear cut of a decision.

I also don’t think the smartest people are necessarily going to medical school. A lot of factors influence medical school admissions….not just raw intelligence.  There are plenty of really smart people whom have no desire to practice medicine.

 

Let me clarify. I meant Harvard philosophy (bachelors) vs university of alabama biology (bachelors).

Obviously when you take into account PhDs and MDs those degrees trump undergraduate education.

 

Wow, calling out school name.

Geoff Meacham is so offended that will probably never hire anyone from Harvard. Hahaha

 

Lol sorry - I didn’t go to either of those schools. Definitely a non target here with my school probably being the average of those two…

Not saying it’s impossible, but MD > PhD > Better school > worse school.

Geoff really putting the SEC on his back though.

 

@NegativeEPS I'll try not to belabor my points inasmuch as my views are consonant with @Draper Specter and Co. & also because I don't seek to make enemies, given that ER is — ipso facto — a small industry and I strongly suspect you were trained as a MD yourself

Nevertheless:

  • Very very difficult to get into a medical school anywhere in the states. Best medical school has a 2% acceptance rate vs 5% for some of the worst. PhD programs are plentiful very easy to get accepted into one.
    - Even as I accept your statement that PhD programs are plentiful, isn't the medical school acceptance rate argument just a heuristic you've leveraging for brevity's sake without interrogating any of the underlying drivers? From a macro perspective, a great deal of that vaunted low acceptance rate is simply one second-order effect of an erroneous policy decision made during the otherwise deregulatory Reagan administration as I once wrote for a client:

    Beyond population growth and aging, one primary driver underlying our current physician deficit can be traced back to policy reforms outlined in 1981 by the Graduate Medical Education National Advisory Committee; chief among its conclusions was that an impending physician surplus had to be prevented to better manage physician-induced demand for services and control national healthcare costs

    Does this mean, perforce, that medical schools will lose a great deal of their cachet — in your estimation — if & when MD-granting institutions normalize supply in accordance with demonstrated market needs, given our slowing yet still positive population growth rate?
     
  • PhD's are objectively easier to get.
    - As I can only speak on the topic of biomedical PhDs, isn't it more than a tad hubristic to make such a claim not only from an epistemological perspective — without any empirical evidence, at least — but also without acknowledging that a biomedical PhD naturally entails making a novel contribution (e.g., identifying some new point mutation, engineering a synthetic protein for which one can obtain IP if non-obvious quoque); clearly, that's beyond the scope of a MD even as I once worked in the laboratory of a MD/PhD & have met MDs (e.g., Arie Belldegrun, Patrick Soon-Shiong) who can shift therapeutic-cum-corporate landscapes
     
  • Point is raw intelligence is raw intelligence.
    Your certitude is perplexing inasmuch as our best surrogate remains a nebulous concept yet to be informed by any objective understanding of human consciousness or even a complete accounting of our neuroarchitecture via brain mapping — understandable for a species that's only been able to write for ~1.6% of its ~300k existence according to biocultural anthropological studies
     
  • Additionally, MDs have the most difficult training program out of all advanced degrees.
    - This strikes me as a sophistic claim without clarification; are you referring to the totality of MD training — inclusive of medical school through to beginning practice, which took a demonstrable physiological toll on my physician friends — or just the 4-year MD program versus the ~5 to 7-yr PhD program? 

    I was assuming the latter, but if you meant the former, it would be remiss of you not to include those PhDs who opt for the academic track with all the pain the postdoc experience apparently entails owing — once more — to supply & demand derangements

    Secondly, are you referring to the mental resilience required in your comparison, or are you focused on the intellectual rigor?

    Given the intrinsically heterogenous nature of a PhD, I can only proffer an experiential anecdote, but suffice it to say that my MD colleagues — some of whom I once tutored during their Pre-Med days — were invariably discombobulated whenever I'd explain that I was running experiments for an overarching translational medical project involving, say, the binding of anti-mitotic drugs to their cognate receptors through quantum effects via fluorescence spectroscopy or using polarized light via circular dichroism spectroscopy 

    I also don't think the smartest people are necessarily going to medical school. . .There are plenty of really smart people whom have no desire to practice medicine.
    - Having to borrow a line from @Draper Specter and Co. here, but I'd be an example as I originally wanted to be an Infectious Disease physician — owing to a Japanese game series depicting a virologist so obsessed with a viral vector he'd engineered that he ultimately became his own creation — which prompted me to get my hands on & learn this text  while peers were typically learning how to ride bikes; after all, the very idea of something there at the nanoscale yet invisible to the human eye that can nevertheless manipulate the body struck me as pure fiction prior to being disabused of that notion

    As you might imagine, that curiosity subsequently led me down the path of research — once I learned the difference between the different types of doctors even as PhDs (~1100) precede MDs (~1800s) & PharmDs (1960s) — and business without necessarily practicing medicine
     
  • Not saying it's impossible, but MD > PhD > Better school > worse school.
    - The formulation of that opinion as a hierarchical fact is what I find irksome not only because WSO is among the best industry-based commons I've encountered but also because — empirically speaking — the analysts I've chatted with, PhDs mind you, have detailed how their respective career pivots into finance were premised on being tired of research while also realizing that their hypothesis-driven understanding of molecular phenomena provided them with the informational asymmetry needed to succeed in the field

In the spirit of magnanimity, though, might we both say that the MD/PhD represents an acceptable mediocritas aurea between our respective positions?

 
Most Helpful

Everyone here generally missing the mark in my opinion, but to be fair I got a bit disgusted reading the first 1/4 of responses and skipped to my own post. This isn’t about IQ, there’s very smart (and not so smart) people among each path. In my experience:

MD advantages:
1) MDs understand unmet need and market opportunities much better than PhDs given they were trained to be the end consumer of drugs;

2) MDs cut through noise to find signal better in clinical data, and are more apt to bridge gaps in data through reasonable assumptions;

3) MDs are generally  better risk managers/PMs since each patient is essentially a risk/benefit analysis, similar to an investment;

PhD advantages:

1) Very good at placing error bars around what is “truth” and determining what can be relied on fact vs conjecture;

2) Really good at understanding how experiments/assays/etc can be manipulated and know the right questions to stress test published data;

3) Much better at translational biology and interrogating mechanistic pathways;

MD/PhD best of all worlds, but good luck finding them. Most go into industry and there are very few on buy side.

Also why no love for PharmDs? Not common but the ones I know on buy side I think are good too.

 

I agree with all your PhD advantages and think they outweigh the advantages of an MD...

1) MDs understand unmet need and market opportunities much better than PhDs given they were trained to be the end consumer of drugs;

Yeah they do...if they're practicing and treating patients.  Just because you graduated from medical school doesn't mean you understand the treatment paradigm, clinical development landscape, patient profile, etc. in some random orphan CNS disease.  You've got to talk to a CNS KOL just like other ER professionals who don't have an MD. 

2) MDs cut through noise to find signal better in clinical data, and are more apt to bridge gaps in data through reasonable assumptions;

There is no end of drugs that "should" work because some signal was teased out of clinical data.  Evaluating the "noise" is what help you weed out the drugs that probably won't work.

3) MDs are generally  better risk managers/PMs since each patient is essentially a risk/benefit analysis, similar to an investment;

Maybe MD > PhD in terms of risk management.  Scientific research is an inherently risky process and PhD's are encouraged to take risks. However, having a MD doesn't make you a good risk manager/PM.  MD's are people and are prone to bouts of bad luck/exuberance like all PM's whom blow up.

 

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