Hey all, first year analyst at a MM here. I'm currently planning on lateraling to UBS as the ER division seems be pretty well ranked in II. I'm aware that the IB division isn't that great, but from an ER perspective, where do you guys see UBS? I want to move to the buy side in a couple of years, AM (Blackrock, Vanguard) initially, get a couple of years of buy side work ex and then finally move to a HF. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!
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You will be able to get looks for the buyside from UBS ER for sure.
Why do AM first then a HF? Especially if you're open to a pod, way way more HFs recruiting right now. Tradeoff is less job security and more stress.
What do you mean by "get looks for the buyside"? Do you think I'll have a good shot at getting into one of the top AM firms? The reason I don't want to move to a HF right now is like you said - less job security. I'm in my mid 20s with not enough savings to take that level of risk right now. I also don't have buy side experience to get a lucrative enough comp to switch to a pod shop, as I believe my comp wouldn't really be tied to % PnL. And if it is, then chances of getting canned early on in your career are pretty high. As of now, I would want to work on the research side of AM to learn how investments are made, and then finally move to a HF as a junior PM. I could be wrong on how to go about it as I'm still relatively new to the industry, so please feel free to correct me if you think this is a shit plan and it doesn't really work that way.
If you are worried about job security in your mid 20s then you'll only become more worried about your job security in your high 20s to low 30s.
Only a matter of time until someone said this. Well, I understand it's much easier to switch jobs and take on more risk when you're young, but it's the fact that work at pods are completely dependent upon performance - if you perform well, you have the job, and if you don't, you're out in 6 months. So, without any buy-side or investing experience, I'll just be playing with fire as I don't really see myself outperforming the other traders (heck, I probably won't even get a job at a HF right now). I'm just saying, I think it's wiser to start off at the shallow end of the pool, rather than jumping deep in the middle of the ocean before you even learn how to swim.
Lot of misconceptions here. First of all Blackrock and Vanguard are not really active management shops, so you wouldn't be getting good research experience there. Second, as a jr at a hf you will have much more rope and you won't be expected to generate pnl until a few years in (first few years will just be learning). You'll also have much more job security than people with pnl responsibility, as any performance good or bad will not be attributed to you. Nowadays most places will try to put you into another seat at the firm if your analyst or PM gets blown out. Coming out of ER think going to a MM HF is the easiest path, so that's what I would target if I were you. Even if you did go to a AM shop like Fidelity, the style of investing vs a MM HF would be so different you would have close to 0% chance of jumping on as a jr PM at a hf.
Last if you are worried about job security in your early 20's, do yourself a favor and don't go a hf.
Thanks a lot! This is extremely helpful and exactly the kind of input I was looking for….I wasn't sure if it's possible to make a jump from research at AM to a Jr PM at HF. Definitely needed more clarity on this. Regarding the job security, I really want to work for HFs, but there's something else as well that's keeping me from making that jump right now. But yeah, if what you said is true then I would definitely look into it further as that would be the ideal trajectory for me. I've also heard that a lot of MM HFs go under pretty soon, which is why I want to know more about the opportunities available from UBS ER. Do you have any idea about the research team at UBS? Is it respectful enough to get into a decent MM HF or AM like Fidelity? (Would look into the management styles at Vanguard and Blackrock…I know that they're more into passive, but thought they might have decent track record with active PM as well)
Just relax man, you're getting way too ahead of yourself. What if I told you UBS was terrible? Would it make a difference/do you have other options? (At the risk of you taking this seriously, I'm not saying it's terrible) Do a good job at UBS and in a year or two when buy side starts knocking you will have a much better idea of the landscape then. You should have more contact with clients and will have a better idea of the road you want to go down. Maybe you realize in your conversations that hedge funds are too short term focused and that's not what you're into. Or maybe you find it to be exciting. Not bad to plan ahead but you sound like you literally know close to nothing about the industry, so it doesn't hurt to get some experience first.
Tbh, you're thinking about this wrong if you're asking about the exit ops from an entire research division at a bank. UBS is a good research shop, comparable to any of the top BBs. But it all comes down to the analyst you're working for. You'd be better served by the top ranked guy in your sector at Wolfe than a brand new analyst at JPM. If you're trying to recruit to the buyside in your sector, PMs will care more about which analyst you worked with than which firm.
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